In my continued quest to find and play non-traditional games, I bring you Wall Street Raider:) How many people are interested in the stock market and playing a game that supposedly really represents it? I am not sure myself whether I would like it or not, but there is a shareware version I might try out over the weekend. It does intrigue me to play a game like this to see how I could do competing in the stock market with fake money:) The game appears to cost $19-$30 depending which version you buy (I believe one contains a big strategy guide).
Has anyone played this game and what are your thoughts? Too tedious? Fun?
http://www.roninsoft.com/wsraider.htm
Here is a brief description followed by the main features:
It is widely recognized as the ultimate in sophisticated financial simulations, a corporate takeover and stock market game and simulation, in which players strive to build their corporate empires by fair means or foul, all the while trying to stay one step ahead of the SEC, IRS, Justice Department, EPA, Congress, powerful unions, corrupt governments, and no end of ruthless competitors -- not to mention various manmade and natural calamaties and economic disasters.
In this highly realistic simulation, 1 to 5 players (including the computer, if you choose) compete to amass fortunes by investing in, or taking over and managing, any of up to 1590 companies in 70 industry groups. Once you acquire control of a company, you and your company will use all the tricks of the trade of real Wall Street corporate raiders ("Wolves of Wall Street") to expand your empire and net worth, including:
•trading or investing in stocks and Exchange-Traded Funds (ETF's)
•trading or investing in corporate and government bonds
•gaining voting control of companies, in order to run them
•industry domination and monopolization, by increasing your company's (or companies') market share in a particular industry
•increasing capital spending to take advantage of lucrative rates of return on capital in your industry, as well as to increase or maintain market share
•setting bank lending policies, such as restricting lending to competitors, for any banks you control
•options trading, for speculation or to hedge stock positions
•short selling of stocks, options, and commodity or stock index futures
•speculating in or hedging with commodity futures and stock index futures
•trading in physical commodities (oil, gold, silver, wheat, corn)
•speculating in ultra-high-risk interest rate swaps, by creating custom-made derivatives contracts (that are bets on the future direction of various interest rates)
•startups/IPOs
•private placement stock offerings to raise "outside" private money or from within your corporate empire
•cash or stock tender offers for corporate takeovers, or cash tender offers for LBO's
•greenmail stock buybacks to get rid of hostile minor shareholders
•stock-for-stock mergers to diversify or to gobble up competitors and increase industry dominance
•LBO's (leveraged buy-outs)
•"white knight" defenses
•buying up distressed debt (bonds) of companies in financial trouble
•launching antitrust lawsuits and other litigation to harass financially vulnerable competitors, or sometimes win large judgments or settlements
•mass layoffs and restucturing of companies to increase efficiency and profitability
•spin-offs or liquidations of subsidiaries, tax-free or otherwise
•excessive salaries and lavish executive stock options, provided by a company you control, if you are elected as its CEO
•increasing dividends of companies you own (or cutting their dividends, to conserve cash)
•firing management
•asset downsizing
•recapitalizations
•tax avoidance strategies to avoid income taxes and various taxes on capital
•asset-stripping liquidations
•manipulating earnings by increasing/decreasing spending on R&D or marketing
•manipulating earnings by using "hidden" accounting reserves
•earning management fees from Exchange-Traded Funds (ETF's), for securities brokers or insurance companies you control
•improving cash flow by reducing capital spending, in order to pay down debt or diversify, and
•using any and all methods to get the stock price up, in a company you control, including sometimes engaging in "unethical" (but risky) actions
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Also a link to a series of let's play videos......
http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF465B35F52B01E1D
OK, here's the irony...
The Wolves of Wall Street aren't tearing up the world at the expense of rival investors. The real Wolves of Wall Street are tearing up the world using their own clients' money, investing in overly expensive products and producing well-concealed-below-average returns while keeping a huge share of those returns for themselves in exchange for adding very little or no value.
There are a lot of good, ethical people in the industry. But there are a lot of not-good, not-ethical people in the industry, and the conflict-of-interest inherent in most of Wall Street firms' business models is appalling. Most firms charge 1.00% to 2.50% of client's assets every year, when they could get better returns from an Index fund charging them 0.06% to 0.15%.
There are some good folks in the industry and there are some niches where people can add some very real value for clients, but most of the industry is not in those niches.
I see axis fanboys salivate over being able to play F'ing Nazi SS troops in strategy games regularly. I don't think a lecture in ethics is needed for some Wall Street text sim.
As for the game itself, I was never interested in the topic.
The feature list is impressive and it is more than stocks. It has derivatives and corporate action. Now I wonder if these derivatives follow well known pricing models or if the actual movement in prices and rates follow brownian motion or other mathematical evolutionary processes. Wonder if there is a correlation between macro economic factors with the pricing?
I actually do this for work as a Risk Manager so I don't need a game. But it is quite interesting. Also why not just open a real trading account and earn (or lose) real money?
Quote from: jomni on June 08, 2014, 08:03:23 PM
Also why not just open a real trading account and earn (or lose) real money?
Because I don't want to lose real money which is exactly what I would do:)
if I had any interest in that kind of game I would just open an e-trade account and try and get rich for real
Excellent game, I've been playing it off and on for about a decade now.
It's a little over priced for what it is however.
but did you ever actually try applying the game to real life?
this is an interesting crossover question for me.
the uncle that introduced me to wargaming has also been a New York venture capitalist. hes also a complete asshole.
once I hit my teens I would whip the crap out him at any game from Chess, Supremacy or Tobruk. it pissed him off.
in my teens and 20's he was trying to convince me to give up my artsy bullshit mindset and apply my head to his world.
honestly I should have done so but then I wouldnt be me. but I would have a 458 Ferrari. :-\ hmmmm
anywho... I know the stock market software exists that borders on sci-fi infographic interface so if you're going to spend the time dicking about why not do it for real? start with penny stock and go from there.
Might be something I do at some point, but the stock market and trading is something that has alluded my understanding but I do get your point. Although even doing it for real, not sure I would do everything the game would allow such as taken over companies unless I get really good:)
For me to be able to make investment decisions, I need extensive historical data to analyze. Do I have access to this in the game at the start of a career? Or do I have to build my own database and charts as I progress? Is it based in fictional or real companies?
Quote from: jomni on June 09, 2014, 04:52:13 AM
For me to be able to make investment decisions, I need extensive historical data to analyze. Do I have access to this in the game at the start of a career? Or do I have to build my own database and charts as I progress? Is it based in fictional or real companies?
Don't know but they do have a free shareware version that allows you to play a couple game years where you can see. It can be found in the links I posted.
I'll be checking out that freeware soon...
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 08, 2014, 11:14:48 PM
but did you ever actually try applying the game to real life?
this is an interesting crossover question for me.
the uncle that introduced me to wargaming has also been a New York venture capitalist. hes also a complete asshole.
once I hit my teens I would whip the crap out him at any game from Chess, Supremacy or Tobruk. it pissed him off.
in my teens and 20's he was trying to convince me to give up my artsy bullshit mindset and apply my head to his world.
honestly I should have done so but then I wouldnt be me. but I would have a 458 Ferrari. :-\ hmmmm
anywho... I know the stock market software exists that borders on sci-fi infographic interface so if you're going to spend the time dicking about why not do it for real? start with penny stock and go from there.
I do do (heh) investing in real life, although nothing on the same scale as WSR. In WSR you start off with a couple million to a billion. I've only got a couple thousand! The skills don't really translate into real world investing. There are better free online games that do that. Thus why I said WSR isn't worth the price.
It's good for a pickup game, if you want to simulate 30 years of the stock market and see if you can turn your own little semiconductor company into the largest in the world! Or make your holding company larger than Warren Buffets! But don't expect too much involvement in doing either.
Quote from: jomni on June 09, 2014, 04:52:13 AM
For me to be able to make investment decisions, I need extensive historical data to analyze. Do I have access to this in the game at the start of a career? Or do I have to build my own database and charts as I progress? Is it based in fictional or real companies?
You do get a hefty amount of data, although not much in the way of historical or charts.
Nefaro, I wasn't so much trying to invalidate the game or the gaming experience as just to supply a critique of the real-world phenomenon that the game seeks to model.
And also to make a distinction that has profound implications for most of us as we go about trying to save our money for retirement: Corporate executives who use the stock market to grow their firms at the expense of their rivals are competing fair and square (and that seems to be mostly what this game is modeled upon). The "Wolves of Wall Street" (like the gentleman upon whom DeCaprio's character is built) make most of their money by taking advantage of clients who don't know better and getting rich at their expense.
Again, there are a lot of good people in the financial services industry and a handful of ethical firms. But the industry is rife with conflict-of-interest and the profits are quite often obscene, especially when compared to the value that's actually being produced for clients after you adjust for average market performance (e.g., monkeys throwing darts at a dart board).
Understood.
;)