GrogHeads Forum

ummm...what exactly is this?  IS this the old WWI from Ageod?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/)

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 01, 2014, 12:30:06 PM
ummm...what exactly is this?  IS this the old WWI from Ageod?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/)

Yes, appears to be a suped-up update of Ageod's WW1 Gold.  Had no idea this was in the works.  Figured "Gold" edition was the pinnacle of that game's development.

WW1 Gold is the most complex game I've ever played.  More complex than WitP, in my opinion, and I know that sounds nuts. 

This is one of those games, like Forge of Freedom and WitP, that I wish I had the patience to master. 

EDIT -- appears this is not an Ageod project after all, but has been taken up by "DigitalFroggies Inc."(?) -- now I'm wary. 

$16.99, not a bad price...but when I read comparisons in complexity to WitP I shudder and move on.

Yeah, it's hard to know what to make of this.  $17 is a steal, and I'm tempted to pick it up just so I have it on Steam.  "DigitalFroggies" claim to have made enhancements to the engine and AI... I'm a little skeptical -- plus "All fixes as received from players since 2008, to improve game play and experience, and previous changes since game launch included in both versions" -- which is a little hard to interpret.

WW1 Gold runs just fine on Windows 7.  I should probably just fire that up and save myself the extra $...

Guess they trying to suck a few more $s/euros out of the old version.  Don't forget that Ageod's To End All Wars (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/533/details/Ageod's.To.End.All.Wars) is just about 8 weeks from release.

WW1 Gold does WW1 perfectly. It's also my favourite grand strat game.

I didn't see anything about a single-player campaign only multiplayer. And no reviews.

The screenshots on Steam show at least one new campaign, plus some different artwork.  Not a major overhaul perhaps, but I'm really happy to see this game still getting some attention.  As much as I'm looking forward to Ageod's new WWI game, it won't be as deep as this game.  It will be CW2 with spiked helmets.   WWI Gold has so much more depth.

I'm in.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 01, 2014, 12:30:06 PM
ummm...what exactly is this?  IS this the old WWI from Ageod?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/)

From the Steam forums (http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/540744937473490638/):

Quote from: strabo
Game Philosophy and Content
Our philosophy is to take what we call "vintage" games, i.e. games that were develop some years ago, and to bring some improvement to their content and designs.

* A first objective is to make sure those games work on recent O/S such as Win7 or Win8, as this was not the case when the original engine was released
* A second objective is to improve the game speed and ease of play
* A third objective is to update the looks for some parts of the game, such as units or maps, as they are those players see the most.
* Last but not least, we'll had some new content validated by the original game developper as much as feasible.

Otherwise, we try to keep the game as close as possible to the very first design (not any subsequent version of variant however).

If they solved the stability and AI processing issues then that's good.

I remember buying the original and only spending a couple of dollars....but even with that, I could not wrap my head around the gameplay which is now just shelf ware.  Wanted to like it, but just couldn't.  It is interesting the resurgence of ww1 games at this time.

Now if only some additional Cold War era and modern middle eastern conflicts would come our way....

Quote from: Queeg on July 01, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
The screenshots on Steam show at least one new campaign, plus some different artwork.  Not a major overhaul perhaps, but I'm really happy to see this game still getting some attention.  As much as I'm looking forward to Ageod's new WWI game, it won't be as deep as this game.  It will be CW2 with spiked helmets.   WWI Gold has so much more depth.

I'm in.

I didn't see anything different in the screenshots compared to WWI Gold.  Maybe the map art was a tad brighter, and hopefully changed to a more efficient format than the large Bitmaps of the previous version.  Actually, I think one of the last WWI Gold patches on the AGEOD forum did all that (or a mod did) so I'm not sure if I should re-purchase.

Now if they had gone through and re-done all the tooltips in the game to display relevant game mechanic info, instead of background info, I might jump.  Notably the card effect tooltips.

Also the combat window only displaying the combat hex and the six surrounding ones adjacent to it during turn playback,  with no extra indication of exactly where this battle is located on the full map, would be a good thing to adjust.  I had just used a mod that made the background of that window clear so I could see the map behind it, to better get my bearings.  But it wasn't as pretty.

I really enjoyed WWI Gold, after it had been patched up quite a bit.  It's a great "Mega" wargame.  I suppose likening it to WitP's difficulty may have some substance behind it, but only for learning the mechanics IMO.  It doesn't have so many units with fidgety buttons, it just has some learning curve (which could be lessened a bit with the aforementioned tooltip text revisions).

I had forgotten about it lately.. yet another I should revisit.  If I saw enough hard details on specific improvements in this version, I could even be persuaded to pick it up sometime.

EDIT:  Hmmm.. it says the game engine is "faster" and "fixes received from players" are in it.  I suppose that means that some mods were included.  That might be worth checking into.

Funny thing is that I any get past the unit cards used in battle. The faces look so goofy it ruins it. Looked for a mod replacing the face with insignia but couldn't find one. Such a stupid reason but it kills it for me nonetheless

Quote from: mikeck on July 02, 2014, 08:02:50 AM
Funny thing is that I any get past the unit cards used in battle. The faces look so goofy it ruins it. Looked for a mod replacing the face with insignia but couldn't find one. Such a stupid reason but it kills it for me nonetheless

Doesn't this one have new counter art?

A game this deep without a decent tutorial needs a comprehensive manual, and even though the one that came with the game topped out at over 200 pages, I found it unreadable.  They really needed to have a native-English speaker edit it.

Now I realize that I'm probably being unfair, since whoever wrote the manual probably speaks better English than I do Serbo-COratian or whatever, but trying to read it still gave me a headache, and I never got past it.  The first thing I went to check out in this version was the manual, to see if it had been rewritten.

From what I can tell, it hasn't

Quote from: Queeg on July 01, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
As much as I'm looking forward to Ageod's new WWI game, it won't be as deep as this game.  It will be CW2 with spiked helmets.   WWI Gold has so much more depth.

I'm in.

Yeah, this is what I'm afraid of. WWI Gold is the only Ageod game that's ever pulled me in, and that's because it doesn't entirely conform to the mold of Ageod games.  I assume To End All Wars will eliminate WWI Gold's interactive battle resolution system, which I love, in favor of the usual 'hands off' Ageod mechanic.  That alone is enough for me to stick to the original game and pass on the new offering.

Did you buy the Steam version?  Impressions?

I see that Gamersgate has it for $16.99 as well.

I like WW1 Gold as well. Once you get past the steep learning curve and actually learn the intricate aspects of the game, you are richly awarded. I might up ending picking this edition too.

One big advantage of WWI Gold is that it is based on a board game and thus has clear rules.  It was a game first, then a computer program. My biggest gripe with PC games these days is that designers too often mistake algorithms for rules (I'm looking at you, Paradox). 

Looking at the discussions on Steam, it looks like the game crashes and is still buggy. If this gets patched and doesn't keep crashing I'll certainly pick it up at some point.

Quote from: Queeg on July 02, 2014, 06:04:35 PM
One big advantage of WWI Gold is that it is based on a board game and thus has clear rules.  It was a game first, then a computer program. My biggest gripe with PC games these days is that designers too often mistake algorithms for rules (I'm looking at you, Paradox).

Sorry but it can also go badly the other way around. A board game can have rules that only a human brain can process and very hard to put into code. Even more difficult make a cunning AI.

Games designed for the computer, with rules based on the coder's capabilities is the best.

Quote from: Nefaro on July 02, 2014, 08:05:53 AM

Quote from: mikeck on July 02, 2014, 08:02:50 AM
Funny thing is that I any get past the unit cards used in battle. The faces look so goofy it ruins it. Looked for a mod replacing the face with insignia but couldn't find one. Such a stupid reason but it kills it for me nonetheless

Doesn't this one have new counter art?

Didnt look like it to me

Quote from: bbmike on July 02, 2014, 07:32:53 PM
Looking at the discussions on Steam, it looks like the game crashes and is still buggy. If this gets patched and doesn't keep crashing I'll certainly pick it up at some point.

The option of having Ageod's WWI available thru Steam is definitely attractive, esp. at this low price -- but it does indeed sound glitchy, and I'd like to hear more about the "improvements" the devs have made to the game engine and AI before purchasing...

Yikes!  still has those core issues from the Ageod release.

For anyone still wondering about how original (or legit) WW1 Centennial Edition is, this seems pretty definitive, as well as encouraging -- from Calvinus, the man himself, over at the Ageod forum:

"Hi all, WW1 Centennial Edition is a new and separate game. I ceded all rights to another company, nothing related to AgeOD, and with no commitment for me (being out of business from PC games already for some years), except for the required knowledge transfer, of course.

This company worked out a brand new graphic engine supported game, much faster and more stable than WW1G, with new graphics, a much improved map, more animated sprites, etc. etc.

I have no idea if that company is going to deliver any "kit" to upgrade WW1G to WW1CE, and if this can be done... "

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36020-What-is-World-War-One-Centennial-Edition&s=3aeefa8dd83ad8a56ceb647a4ccf5f60&p=318581#post318581 (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36020-What-is-World-War-One-Centennial-Edition&s=3aeefa8dd83ad8a56ceb647a4ccf5f60&p=318581#post318581)

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on this one- but the Steam forum gives CTD and Freeze issue impression.

It looks the same as "Gold" to me

Quote from: mikeck on July 03, 2014, 10:47:32 AM
It looks the same as "Gold" to me

I'm sure it's the latest Gold update version, with some adjustments.

The most notable improvement I see on the list is the game engine performance increase.  Perhaps the revised one is having some stability issues at the moment (?) but if they can get that hammered out, then I will probably pick up this version also.  I think it's still my favorite WWI grand strat game, despite all the past warts.  But the interface always ran a bit sluggish.  I had to adjust the mouse speed and be careful about clicking too fast because it could get a bit behind.  I had only suspected it was the use of the huge amount of large-sized bitmaps for each of the map provinces slowing things down, but there was probably more. 

I should also see if they edited some of those annoying sound files in the new version and, if not, make sure my sound mod is still compatible.  I would like to play the game again too, of course.  ;)  The last patch version from the AGE forums I played was in fairly decent shape, from what I noticed from a few months of gameplay, but I'd like to get a full war in.

The developer of the Ageod game posted on their forum that he sold the rights to his game to a separate company and that he doesn't have much to do with this version.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36020-What-is-World-War-One-Centennial-Edition&p=318581#post318581 (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36020-What-is-World-War-One-Centennial-Edition&p=318581#post318581)

Considered getting this on Gamersgate for $16.99 less 20% off with a coupon I just got from them via email. But after reading the forums on Steam I'm not pulling the trigger.  Broken tutorials that you can't complete,  frequent freeze ups and crashes to desktop.....yikes.

Quote from: Rayfer on July 03, 2014, 02:27:49 PM
Considered getting this on Gamersgate for $16.99 less 20% off with a coupon I just got from them via email. But after reading the forums on Steam I'm not pulling the trigger.  Broken tutorials that you can't complete,  frequent freeze ups and crashes to desktop.....yikes.

So in other words, pretty much the same as the Ageod release.

I just fired up the Ageod version again and played the small Tannenberg scenario and I remember how much fun I had playing this game.

I know others have had many issues with the game including crashing, but I must have been lucky because I've never experienced a single CTD with the game.

Quote from: tgb on July 03, 2014, 02:36:27 PM

Quote from: Rayfer on July 03, 2014, 02:27:49 PM
Considered getting this on Gamersgate for $16.99 less 20% off with a coupon I just got from them via email. But after reading the forums on Steam I'm not pulling the trigger.  Broken tutorials that you can't complete,  frequent freeze ups and crashes to desktop.....yikes.

So in other words, pretty much the same as the Ageod release.

Sounds like the latest Gold version from AGEOD is more stable.  ;D   All the updates made it quite playable last I checked.  And there was probably one more patch after that.

I feel reasonably sure WW1G already works on Win8, since that's what I was working in when I wrote my Absolute Newbies Guide (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6547.0) to it.

I mean, sure it'd be nice to get it on Steam and pay less than at Slitheratrix, with a committed team looking to squash remaining bugs -- though as already noted above it doesn't actually look updated at all yet. But until I see real improvements I'm not updating; and right now WW1G (with its latest official patch) runs relatively fine.

Here is the official website for the 'new' version: http://www.ww1game.com/ (http://www.ww1game.com/)

WW1 Gold runs great on my computer as well and I would like to know more about what updates have been done to the game before I commit.

If this team can prove on the long haul they're competent at fixing the remaining problems without introducing new ones (seems dubious at the moment), I hope they're willing to take a stab at Calv's other giant board-game-conversion-into-something-like-a-popular-strategy-gaming-engine-at-the-time, Great Invasions. The only game I know of so far to try to seriously game ALL the Dark Ages (from mid-300s before the fall of Rome out to the Norman invasion of Britain.)

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 03, 2014, 07:24:08 PM
If this team can prove on the long haul they're competent at fixing the remaining problems without introducing new ones (seems dubious at the moment), I hope they're willing to take a stab at Calv's other giant board-game-conversion-into-something-like-a-popular-strategy-gaming-engine-at-the-time, Great Invasions. The only game I know of so far to try to seriously game ALL the Dark Ages (from mid-300s before the fall of Rome out to the Norman invasion of Britain.)

There was some vague talk on the AGE forums about a Great Invasions sequel always being a slight possibility in the future.  I think it was probably just talk since the original used the EU2 engine (IIRC) so it would probably end up being something different, using the AGE engine if it was actually made.

The Dark Ages are definitely an underused era in gaming. I tried to really like Great Invasions, but the performance (everything on the screen seemed to have stutters), graphics and the low resolution stopped me. An update would be great though.

The original used a cobbled-together approximation of the EU1 engine. Or maybe EU2. It was (and is) rather primitive.

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 03, 2014, 08:42:14 PM
The original used a cobbled-together approximation of the EU1 engine. Or maybe EU2. It was (and is) rather primitive.

Yeah.. the UI is painful to mess with these days.  But you can see the great game buried underneath.

I've played WW1 Gold for years and now have had a chance to try a few scenarios in WW1 Centennial. So far, it's a mixed bag but encouraging.

The Good

The game is MUCH faster. Maps and scenarios load much faster and the game plays much smoother overall.

The new unit artwork is nice, though probably not a huge factor by itself.

The Centennial version seems to use a bigger and clearer font for the tooltips, messages and unit cards. Much easier to read.

The messages in the order screen - the area above the unit window where you are told, for example, if an army succesfully activated - have been rewritten in plain, easy to understand text. (If you've played the Gold version, you'll immediately see what I'm talking about. It's a much clearer presentation now.)

The mods I used in Gold all seem to work fine in this version. The file structure is identical. I've even moved some of the graphics that I prefer from Gold (i.e., the player helmets on the scenario screens) over to the Centennial game and they work fine. You basically can mix and match the graphics to taste.

The Bad

I couldn't get past the Initializing Map phase on my first several tries. Went back the Configuration screen and unchecked "Load entire map at startup" option. No problems since. (This option was necessary in Gold to make the map scroll better. In Centennial, the game is so much smoother that I saw no difference with the option unchecked.)

Had a crash in the Tannenberg scenario in the same spot I sometimes got one in the same scenario in Gold. So an old problem not fixed.

Tried the first bit of the Grand Campaign (4 player) and had several errors. The game never asked me to select a warplan. Instead, I got a bunch of message screens filled with gibberish - like, "nanananaaannna." Then the game announced a warplan for me. Seemed to run fine after that but still a serious problem.

On the Breakthrough screen (where you select which province your armies will advance into), the Gold version had a tooltip which told you the name of the province. Centennial doesn't, and it's a fairly important omission. It's often hard to tell just by looking at the small map in the Breakthrough screen which province is which. They need to fix this ASAP.

The Unclear

Can't tell yet about the supposedly improved AI. The game does seem to play a bit different, but it's hard to put my finger on how and whether it's really better. May just be a placebo effect. So the jury's still out there.


Overall, I'm encouraged to see the game getting a second life. There are very clear improvements in the game engine in terms of performance - pretty much night and day. But there are still some bugs - including some I never saw in the Gold version - that still need attention. If the new guys stick with the game, then they will have a winner on their hands. This is still the best WWI game on the market - by far.

Thanks for the initial impressions Q.

Quote from: Queeg on July 03, 2014, 09:39:17 PM
I've played WW1 Gold for years and now have had a chance to try a few scenarios in WW1 Centennial. So far, it's a mixed bag but encouraging.

The Good

The game is MUCH faster. Maps and scenarios load much faster and the game plays much smoother overall.

The new unit artwork is nice, though probably not a huge factor by itself.

The Centennial version seems to use a bigger and clearer font for the tooltips, messages and unit cards. Much easier to read.

The messages in the order screen - the area above the unit window where you are told, for example, if an army succesfully activated - have been rewritten in plain, easy to understand text. (If you've played the Gold version, you'll immediately see what I'm talking about. It's a much clearer presentation now.)

The mods I used in Gold all seem to work fine in this version. The file structure is identical. I've even moved some of the graphics that I prefer from Gold (i.e., the player helmets on the scenario screens) over to the Centennial game and they work fine. You basically can mix and match the graphics to taste.

The Bad

I couldn't get past the Initializing Map phase on my first several tries. Went back the Configuration screen and unchecked "Load entire map at startup" option. No problems since. (This option was necessary in Gold to make the map scroll better. In Centennial, the game is so much smoother that I saw no difference with the option unchecked.)

Had a crash in the Tannenberg scenario in the same spot I sometimes got one in the same scenario in Gold. So an old problem not fixed.

Tried the first bit of the Grand Campaign (4 player) and had several errors. The game never asked me to select a warplan. Instead, I got a bunch of message screens filled with gibberish - like, "nanananaaannna." Then the game announced a warplan for me. Seemed to run fine after that but still a serious problem.

On the Breakthrough screen (where you select which province your armies will advance into), the Gold version had a tooltip which told you the name of the province. Centennial doesn't, and it's a fairly important omission. It's often hard to tell just by looking at the small map in the Breakthrough screen which province is which. They need to fix this ASAP.

The Unclear

Can't tell yet about the supposedly improved AI. The game does seem to play a bit different, but it's hard to put my finger on how and whether it's really better. May just be a placebo effect. So the jury's still out there.


Overall, I'm encouraged to see the game getting a second life. There are very clear improvements in the game engine in terms of performance - pretty much night and day. But there are still some bugs - including some I never saw in the Gold version - that still need attention. If the new guys stick with the game, then they will have a winner on their hands. This is still the best WWI game on the market - by far.

Thanks

After a crash can you load a save and play through the crash points?

I've been so fixated on trying to figure out whether anyone currently owning WW1G should think about updating to the Steam version yet, that I've kind of ignored a possibly pertinent claim being made upthread.

Look, I love Ageod's WW1Gold. And until recently I would have agreed 100% that even with its warts it was the most detailed, in-depth version of the war available on computer.

But that just isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a number of years.

There are at least two games about WW1 which are substantially more in-depth than WW1G.

One is Darkest Hour, which has a dedicated WW1 campaign. On every conceivable point (MAYBE except supply), DH is more in-depth. That isn't to take away from depth WW1G has, but choose a topic -- DH will cover it at least as well and almost certainly better. (Supply may be covered a bit less, but it's hard to tell because of how the infrastructure in DH works in regard to supply. It may actually cover supply more, too.) With the introduction of a slight popular mod, the game can even run through WW2 with plot triggers (if appropriately triggered) into the early 1960s or even to 1970.

The other, not surprisingly, is Victoria 2, which although it cannot run up into WW2 (unless into official HOI3 somehow) is actually MORE in-depth than Darkest Hour, because the Clausewitz engine itself is generally more indepth than the Europa engine, and it forces players to work up to WW1 from back in the early 1800s!

Both games aren't quite as gorgeously handpainted as the boardgame-map from WW1G, but they're no slouches either.

Both games are stable and pretty-much bug-free. (Compared to WW1G anyway.)

Both games are widely available in Steam and non-Steam versions, and both games often go on sale. Even when not on sale DH only costs $10 on Steam, and runs just fine on Win8. (Vicky2 is $20 when not on sale.)

Really at this point, unless someone just wants to play with the more boardgamish mechanics of WW1G, there's no reason not to spend less money on a more stable and significantly more detailed version of WW1 already in existence.  :)

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 04, 2014, 01:14:26 PM
I've been so fixated on trying to figure out whether anyone currently owning WW1G should think about updating to the Steam version yet, that I've kind of ignored a possibly pertinent claim being made upthread.

Look, I love Ageod's WW1Gold. And until recently I would have agreed 100% that even with its warts it was the most detailed, in-depth version of the war available on computer.

But that just isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a number of years.

There are at least two games about WW1 which are substantially more in-depth than WW1G.

One is Darkest Hour, which has a dedicated WW1 campaign. On every conceivable point (MAYBE except supply), DH is more in-depth. That isn't to take away from depth WW1G has, but choose a topic -- DH will cover it at least as well and almost certainly better. (Supply may be covered a bit less, but it's hard to tell because of how the infrastructure in DH works in regard to supply. It may actually cover supply more, too.) With the introduction of a slight popular mod, the game can even run through WW2 with plot triggers (if appropriately triggered) into the early 1960s or even to 1970.

The other, not surprisingly, is Victoria 2, which although it cannot run up into WW2 (unless into official HOI3 somehow) is actually MORE in-depth than Darkest Hour, because the Clausewitz engine itself is generally more indepth than the Europa engine, and it forces players to work up to WW1 from back in the early 1800s!

Both games aren't quite as gorgeously handpainted as the boardgame-map from WW1G, but they're no slouches either.

Both games are stable and pretty-much bug-free. (Compared to WW1G anyway.)

Both games are widely available in Steam and non-Steam versions, and both games often go on sale. Even when not on sale DH only costs $10 on Steam, and runs just fine on Win8. (Vicky2 is $20 when not on sale.)

Really at this point, unless someone just wants to play with the more boardgamish mechanics of WW1G, there's no reason not to spend less money on a more stable and significantly more detailed version of WW1 already in existence.  :)

Victoria 2 is a World War One game in the same sense that it's a Civil War game.  And a Franco-Prussian War game.  And a Crimean War game.  And a Spanish-American War game.  Etc.  Yes, the game covers the era when those wars and many others were fought.  But it's not an especially good simulator of any of them.  (I could go on for pages about the problems with Victoria 2 - the game I most wish I could love - but that's not the topic.)

Darkest Hour is a better bet, though it's not a war game per se and suffers from all the problems of the Paradox games where warfare is concerned.  As a grand strategy game in the WWI era, it offers a nice mix of economic, industrial and diplomatic decisions, all leading up to a rather lackluster combat model.  If you enjoy building, equipping and deploying 100 divisions, one at a time, then it's a very good game for that.  But if your interest is more in fighting a war with them, not so much. 

So I took a chance and bought the game.

I'll second some of Queeg's positive comments:

a) The game does load a lot faster and the game play does feel smoother.
b) The new unit graphics are nice, but a little cartoon-ish for my taste.
c) The font that is used for the messages is much easier to read as Queeg noted. This really helps when trying to read the game messages.

Now for some negatives again with the first one as Queeg mentioned:

a) When you select "Load all map at start" in the game configurator, the game does freeze up while initializing and you have to tab out to get back to your desktop.
b) Whenever I save a scenario in progress, the game crashes when you click on the single player option from the main menu. This always happens until I delete the save game file and then the crashes stop. This crash obviously defeats the purpose of saving a game in progress.
c) When you download the game through Steam, you are actually downloading just the install files into the Steam/common apps folder. When you click on Play in your game library, you are prompted to install the game itself in a non-Steam folder. This is quite different from a regular Steam game.

I noticed that the devs have commented that they are new to Steam and haven't got it quite figured out how to use Steam with their game. They said they will commit resources to the issues next week.

I guess time will tell if the purchase was worth it or not.

Quote from: WallysWorld on July 04, 2014, 07:33:58 PM
I guess time will tell if the purchase was worth it or not.

So far, it's been worth it simply for the loading and speed improvements.  The difference there is dramatic. 

There are bugs still, but they mostly mimic the bugs in the earlier version.  If they really are committed to fixing the worst of them, then this will be a big step forward. 

Quote from: Queeg on July 04, 2014, 05:39:44 PMDarkest Hour is a better bet, though it's not a war game per se and suffers from all the problems of the Paradox games where warfare is concerned.  As a grand strategy game in the WWI era, it offers a nice mix of economic, industrial and diplomatic decisions, all leading up to a rather lackluster combat model.  If you enjoy building, equipping and deploying 100 divisions, one at a time, then it's a very good game for that.  But if your interest is more in fighting a war with them, not so much.

We must have been playing radically different versions of Darkest Hour, then; because as Russia I'm only given time to make some adjustments about where I want to consolidate my frontlines with what generals, and some initial allocations to research and updates, before (assuming I back the Serbs -- and maybe even if I don't!) I'm thrust into a war in which my industrial decisions won't mean squat before I'm overrun; ditto my diplomatic decisions for the most part (except in regard to some economic hustlry). It's a frantic backstepping shuffle to hold the line until winter when hopefully my first troop updates will be finished with some brigades while the the Germans take a break eating my land for Christmas cake. Then hoping I can hold the line again for another year until some of my upgrades to tech come through and even then I have no time to train new divisions from scratch.

I can't imagine any other nations are able to add new troops or do much significant in industrial upgrades in the first few years either. What we fight with is what we have pretty much.

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 04, 2014, 07:59:09 PM

Quote from: Queeg on July 04, 2014, 05:39:44 PMDarkest Hour is a better bet, though it's not a war game per se and suffers from all the problems of the Paradox games where warfare is concerned.  As a grand strategy game in the WWI era, it offers a nice mix of economic, industrial and diplomatic decisions, all leading up to a rather lackluster combat model.  If you enjoy building, equipping and deploying 100 divisions, one at a time, then it's a very good game for that.  But if your interest is more in fighting a war with them, not so much.

We must have been playing radically different versions of Darkest Hour, then; because as Russia I'm only given time to make some adjustments about where I want to consolidate my frontlines with what generals, and some initial allocations to research and updates, before (assuming I back the Serbs -- and maybe even if I don't!) I'm thrust into a war in which my industrial decisions won't mean squat before I'm overrun; ditto my diplomatic decisions for the most part (except in regard to some economic hustlry). It's a frantic backstepping shuffle to hold the line until winter when hopefully my first troop updates will be finished with some brigades while the the Germans take a break eating my land for Christmas cake. Then hoping I can hold the line again for another year until some of my upgrades to tech come through and even then I have no time to train new divisions from scratch.

I can't imagine any other nations are able to add new troops or do much significant in industrial upgrades in the first few years either. What we fight with is what we have pretty much.

You're right.  I was thinking of the WWI mod to HOI3, which includes a 1910 scenario.

I have Darkest Hour but haven't played it in awhile, mainly because I'm not a big fan of the Paradox combat model.  But perhaps I'll give it another look.

I just want to update of my comments. I started a grand campaign and the save game works fine. Maybe it's just the small scenarios that have an issue with the save game files.

So that's good news!

Quote from: WallysWorld on July 04, 2014, 10:08:34 PM
I just want to update of my comments. I started a grand campaign and the save game works fine. Maybe it's just the small scenarios that have an issue with the save game files.

So that's good news!

I've been pretty lucky so far.  Only one crash in game.  A few others while loading a scenario (usually when switching from one scenario to another). 

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 04, 2014, 01:14:26 PM
I've been so fixated on trying to figure out whether anyone currently owning WW1G should think about updating to the Steam version yet, that I've kind of ignored a possibly pertinent claim being made upthread.

Look, I love Ageod's WW1Gold. And until recently I would have agreed 100% that even with its warts it was the most detailed, in-depth version of the war available on computer.

But that just isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a number of years.

There are at least two games about WW1 which are substantially more in-depth than WW1G even.

One is Darkest Hour, which has a dedicated WW1 campaign. On every conceivable point (MAYBE except supply), DH is more in-depth. That isn't to take away from depth WW1G has, but choose a topic -- DH will cover it at least as well and almost certainly better. (Supply may be covered a bit less, but it's hard to tell because of how the infrastructure in DH works in regard to supply. It may actually cover supply more, too.) With the introduction of a slight popular mod, the game can even run through WW2 with plot triggers (if appropriately triggered) into the early 1960s or even to 1970.

The other, not surprisingly, is Victoria 2, which although it cannot run up into WW2 (unless into official HOI3 somehow) is actually MORE in-depth than Darkest Hour, because the Clausewitz engine itself is generally more indepth than the Europa engine, and it forces players to work up to WW1 from back in the early 1800s!

Both games aren't quite as gorgeously handpainted as the boardgame-map from WW1G, but they're no slouches either.

Both games are stable and pretty-much bug-free. (Compared to WW1G anyway.)

Both games are widely available in Steam and non-Steam versions, and both games often go on sale. Even when not on sale DH only costs $10 on Steam, and runs just fine on Win8. (Vicky2 is $20 when not on sale.)

Really at this point, unless someone just wants to play with the more boardgamish mechanics of WW1G, there's no reason not to spend less money on a more stable and significantly more detailed version of WW1 already in existence.  :)

WW1G still a better treatment than those IMO.

Hell, you'd also be better off getting SC:WW1 or Commander: The Great War too.

Got both of those a while back, haven't played them yet, don't seem as deep as Darkest Hour.  ;D

I'm following this thread so closely...the perfect WWI strategy game is my Holy Grail. I really like SC:WWI and Commander: WWI, but I still feel like they're missing something. Maybe that something can't be captured in a PC game.

Quote from: Gusington on July 06, 2014, 06:26:50 PM
I'm following this thread so closely...the perfect WWI strategy game is my Holy Grail. I really like SC:WWI and Commander: WWI, but I still feel like they're missing something. Maybe that something can't be captured in a PC game.

Just curious, with the WW1 games out there and coming up, what do you think is missing or have failed to be captured?  I would just think one of these should be able to come close to meeting your needs.  I am not a WW1 expert, so I am genuinely interested in understanding what these games don't do well.

The most clear way I can put it is the technology evolution. Even SCWWI and CTGW feel somewhat static, even with CTGW tech tree and research, to me a quick replacement of unit cards and it could easily be a game about WWII.

I want a game to capture the feeling of blasting away the 19th century with a screeching tear into the 20th century.

I don't know if that can be done in a game.

Squad  Battles First world War fits the bill.
You start with large formations where each unit is a platoon and you also have flag bearers. Arty is direct fire infantry guns save for some mortars. It feels Napoleonic.  Then you get to the point where a unit is a squad armed with light machine guns. Then you have tanks. Pretty much WW2 tactics.

But it is not grand strategy.

You know I forgot all about Squad Battles...I had meant to pick that up but never did.

Quote from: Gusington on July 06, 2014, 06:50:23 PM
The most clear way I can put it is the technology evolution. Even SCWWI and CTGW feel somewhat static, even with CTGW tech tree and research, to me a quick replacement of unit cards and it could easily be a game about WWII.

I want a game to capture the feeling of blasting away the 19th century with a screeching tear into the 20th century.

I don't know if that can be done in a game.

Not sure about Vicky2 (eventually), but Darkest Hour does involve very detailed tech evolution. And some mods making the tech developments more detailed, too.

Right this moment as Russia I have cavalry and infantry from back as far as 1870 teamed up with cavalry and infantry and artillery from pre-war, struggling to get the 19th century upgraded to even pre-War 20th century standards (and researching 1914 standards) while trying to hold back a more numerous German army with mostly 1914 standard troops, arty, 1914 armored cars (not many yet but I know from past experience they're on the way -- Britain has an asston of armored cars later in 1914). I'm researching as fast as I can but even Russia can't research everything at once and I have to make hard choices about what to spend time on.

But neither is research particularly fast. I'll be well into 1915 before I can get tech for (much less get all my troops upgraded to) 1914 standards. That's mainly because Russia starts off way behind. There are built-in penalties to researching something that historically appeared in later years, too, effectively meaning no one (unless the game starts them with it) is going to get advanced tech much ahead of anyone else -- once I have 1914 construction methods for example I'm not going to get the next level, 1936, much before 1936 regardless of how early I start researching it and that research team will be busy instead of doing something I might be able to use sooner. (The idea aside from protecting the game from getting nuclear subs in the 1920s is that techs required a bunch of other things which were being developed behind the scenes, so someone researching a tech in advance of the current year has to be inventing all that other stuff too.) But if I recall my Ethiopian game correctly, Britain starts with 1922 era marine troops. But even they won't be able to go farther much faster along that line compared to everyone else -- by the time it unlocks for other nations in 1922 they might have gotten another, say, two levels farther on but only at sacrificing the six or seven other techs that tech slot could have been developing in those eight years.


So on one hand, it's very much the 20th century blasting away the 19th. On the other hand, it's hardly a screeching tear: if I worked hard and sacrificed other advancements I might have, say, 1970 airmobile cavalry and cobra assault helicopters by the 1950s, but I'm not going to have them in the 30s or probably even the 40s.

Now, most of these techs come down to various numbers increasing (or decreasing where that might be improvements) but the majors and even some of the minors get specific art for their techs; and if I understand the code files correctly different nations get potential access to slightly different possible tech trees.

Anyway, there are over eight hundred techs stretching from pre-1870 tribal warfare to nuclear powered battleships (though even the "Full" DH game has some gaps, such as no pre-1870 troops!) and several mod projects refine and fill in those options with more techs.

Okay Gus, now that I'm back at the house: here are (most) all the techs for Russia in Darkest Hour, assuming a June 28 1914 start date. (There are no earlier possible start dates in the official game, and a proposed 1880 mod hasn't gotten far. Theoretically someone could pretty easily tweak a first save file to be any earlier year, but all nations would be starting with techs the game expects for them to have in summer 1914.)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F855%2F369j.png&hash=c4eb6b0766096341b8d051b1dc3302004e85cce2)
Industrial techs. Lots of flavors. One thing I haven't yet seen the game really implement (because I haven't been in a position to see it yet) are the giant trench systems. What little entrenchment I've seen (unlocked with the second "construction" tech) is simple camp fortification which are abandoned and destroyed with a movement order. I'm actually unsure how much trenching is in Darkest Hour, if any! -- the difficulty in assault may be represented by other factors. "Sturdy equipment" means slight improvements for all units in mountain, hill and mud.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F820%2Fl2ow.png&hash=429251d31a295bac35235319cdc20a81bb1822b3)
Land warfare doctrines. These grant bonuses to some or all units under various conditions, unlock and help activate tactics during battle, and occasionally unlock mission possibilities. Also the hospital techs, complimenting the medical techs from the industrial page, are here.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F850%2Frlhx.png&hash=36545697b5d1ec8a093d94898ea2ac6ff03b7cc9)
Infantry (including cavalry) and logistic techs. Light/mountain infantry are the early elites, trading off the ability to have a second brigade attached for special bonuses in other regards.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F819%2Fqnfu.png&hash=ff937d0b7f32a152f2385e35cbb86fdef8c13ad1)
Armor and artillery (including anti-air). Some of these techs unlock techs elsewhere like the motorized and mechanized infantry divisions and brigades. Tanks require a couple of secret weapon research techs first, and also armored car research for a while.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F856%2Fcbk9.png&hash=1cb017e0403083a5edc80b2ce1156c70696af780)
This is tech for various air doctrine techs, which are applied theories. They usually provide small bonuses to various things and situations, but also unlock aircraft, mission possibilities, and I think tactics which pilots may employ in a battle.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F834%2Fvdn3.png&hash=aaca2457aca47dc070478e9e6f259321d5025495)
These are the various aircraft which can be researched.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F855%2Femhn.png&hash=da8b6a43ce475facad520d7233a080d2cf437c5c)
Naval doctrine techs, granting various bonuses, unlocking tactics and missions.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F849%2Fqyan.png&hash=39dd85281481ab2cede94630519de0cbdd7b44fc)
Ship techs. Lots of variety dating back to 1870!

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F800x600q90%2F834%2Fw4p1.png&hash=c3ed55b41dc4d069e662825a7b088ac26e0adef7)
Secret weapon projects. Some of these don't show up at all without other research first, thus the blanks.


I'm not sure how someone got over 800 techs out of this -- maybe they were counting the five constituent subtechs every tech is made from, but those are just labels for research progress bars. Some techs, like super-heavy arty, or the garrison and militia, or headquarters, come attached to other main research though. And it's still a ton of techs. :)


Note that these texts are only available in Darkest Hour Full. DH also comes with one or two earlier iterations which are really HOI2 using some DH additions. Since HOI2 never had a World War 1 campaign, though, that can only be played on DHFull.

Meh.  HOI mods..  :buck2:

Quote from: steve58 on July 01, 2014, 04:56:41 PM
Guess they trying to suck a few more $s/euros out of the old version.  Don't forget that Ageod's To End All Wars (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/533/details/Ageod's.To.End.All.Wars) is just about 8 weeks from release.

But they are not the same game. The scale is totally different, and they play differently too. Both have their sweet spots, although without doubt this game has a learning curve so steep it rivals the Matterhorn. Still it's very nice when you've climbed it, getting there is the issue... ;)

Quote from: Gusington on July 07, 2014, 07:54:10 AM
You know I forgot all about Squad Battles...I had meant to pick that up but never did.

I did a review on the game - you'll find it in the archives. It's very  good as Jomni said - but again not grand strategy.

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 07, 2014, 06:18:46 PM
Note that these texts are only available in Darkest Hour Full. DH also comes with one or two earlier iterations which are really HOI2 using some DH additions. Since HOI2 never had a World War 1 campaign, though, that can only be played on DHFull.

If you play the WW1 scenario in Darkest Hour does it continue all they way into the 1960s or even beyond?

Thanks for posting those Jason. My experience with Victoria 2, and most Paradox titles, has been...flummoxing.

Quote from: bbmike on July 07, 2014, 07:08:05 PM

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 07, 2014, 06:18:46 PM
Note that these texts are only available in Darkest Hour Full. DH also comes with one or two earlier iterations which are really HOI2 using some DH additions. Since HOI2 never had a World War 1 campaign, though, that can only be played on DHFull.

If you play the WW1 scenario in Darkest Hour does it continue all they way into the 1960s or even beyond?

Within the game as-is, it can continue to late June 1940. With a slight tweak of the save file it can continue to 1970 or 1999 or 2014 -- I once saw a production clock with only a few fractions of industry assigned to build a late 19th-century battleship, which tracked its projected completion in 2056! -- but the techs run out around 1970.

The WW1 campaign has scripts into the early 1920s, so after that point the game won't look for triggers to guide events; in which case the player can turn on the "declare war on anyone" button which takes the brakes off the several dozen nations in the game and allows them to do whatever they want whenever that seems best to the AI. This can still lead to the results notorious to Europa Engine games, though -- DH doesn't fix that. For example, Chile out of nowhere declares war on South Korea, who capitulates a few days later before the first troops arrive which Chile can't even send. But 'things' will certainly happen in the game this way as long as the gameclock is set to last, even after the scripts run out.

There is a simple mod, fairly easy to install, called Armistice, Arms and Revolutions (I think, something close to that) which ties together the plot triggers for the WW1 campaign and the earliest WW2 campaign start (1932).  The WW2 scripts (connected via the simple mod download and install) start in 1932 and run to 1962, or however long HOI2:Armageddon:Doomsday ran. Darkest Hour features most of the scripts (where applicable) from HOI2:Arma:Doom, and adds dozens of others.

Quote from: Gusington on July 07, 2014, 08:08:09 PM
Thanks for posting those Jason. My experience with Victoria 2, and most Paradox titles, has been...flummoxing.

Based on my 15 minutes of poking around Vicky2 to see how feasible it might be to run it as part of my giant crossover WW1 game comparison (I decided not to since its eventual version of WW1 would probably be too different to really compare), Darkest Hour seems a little simpler. There are obvious engine similarities but a lot of things are quite different.

Have you read through my Ethiopian WW1 AAR? That gives an idea of what I went through learning the DH game mechanics (which I'm still somewhat learning).

Quote from: sandman2575 on July 01, 2014, 12:42:11 PM
WW1 Gold is the most complex game I've ever played.  More complex than WitP, in my opinion, and I know that sounds nuts. 

Yikes!!! that should scar everyone away!

Well, I hope not, because WWI Gold is a gem of a game.

The thing that makes it such a challenge is (A) it has very complex rule-set to begin with, (B) these rules change depending on the timeframe, i.e. 1914 "Movement Warfare" vs. 1915-17 "Trench Warfare" vs. 1917-18 "Combined Arms Warfare"; and (C) different nations have very specific rules associated with them. It is a lot to try to hold in your head at once.

My copy of the WitP:AE manual is filled with stickies and highlighting and underlining -- it's a monster of a game, no question. But for whatever reason, I've found WWI Gold harder to wrap may head around. It may have something to do with the fact that WWI is a 'port' of a board game, and probably doesn't do enough to take advantage of all that a computer could do to streamline gameplay.  So it feels inevitably a little clunky on the computer.  That said, I love the board-game feel of WWI -- it gives the game enormous character.

I haven't bought Centennial but all the hoopla has inspired me to go back to Gold, and I'm really enjoying it.  There are still some things I find baffling (naval warfare is particularly mysterious to me), but it is a tremendous game, provided you're willing to scale the mountain of its steep, steep learning-curve. 

That's right. If it's a boardgame port, you better know the rules and the various phases to play well. If it's an original computer game like WITP, you just need to learn the UI and just use your general knowledge on strategy and tactics in the hopes that it is simulated reasonably. Though a competitive player will still look in detail and find gamey tricks.


But I find WW1 gold more approachable than WITP. There's less to do and set up. 

So I played a few months of the two player Grand Campaign with the Centennial Edition and have to admit, the game plays very well for me. Others are reporting crashes and slowdowns due to perhaps memory leaks which the developer says they are working on, but I have to say the grand campaign is running very well for me.

Update: I just had a freeze on a battle screen and then the game really slow downs after a while of playing it and virtually freezes up. I guess it doesn't run as well as I thought.

Quote from: WallysWorld on July 09, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
So I played a few months of the two player Grand Campaign with the Centennial Edition and have to admit, the game plays very well for me. Others are reporting crashes and slowdowns due to perhaps memory leaks which the developer says they are working on, but I have to say the grand campaign is running very well for me.

Update: I just had a freeze on a battle screen and then the game really slow downs after a while of playing it and virtually freezes up. I guess it doesn't run as well as I thought.

I've had the same experience.  It runs perfectly for 30-45, then suddenly crashes.  I've started quitting and relaunching the game periodically.  It loads so fast that it's a minor inconvenience. 

Sooooo....are you guys recommending this for those of us who have never played it?  Can you play in hotseat mode?

Quote from: bbmike on July 09, 2014, 05:26:47 PM
Sooooo....are you guys recommending this for those of us who have never played it?  Can you play in hotseat mode?

Sounds like it has "Wait & See" on this version, because it obviously has nasty memory leaks.

But if they can get that stuff fixed, yes.

I don't recall if WW1G had hotseat play, I think it did?   They also added PBEM in one of the latter patches (along with direct play).  I'd expect all that stuff to still be in this one.

If I remember correctly, the several phases made multiplayer a bit of a chore. And also the phasing sequence is different / simplified compared to original rules.

Regarding the freezes, it's just like the Matrix / Ageod version. But my campaign came to a freeze that wasn't recoverable by restart.

Quote from: jomni on July 09, 2014, 09:18:15 PM
If I remember correctly, the several phases made multiplayer a bit of a chore. And also the phasing sequence is different / simplified compared to original rules.

Regarding the freezes, it's just like the Matrix / Ageod version. But my campaign came to a freeze that wasn't recoverable by restart.

There were two options:  UGOIGO or WEGO.   But I believe only one worked for multi-player.  That may have changed for the PBEM option added in the patch, however.  I never played it MP to find out.. figured it would take forever to play PBEM.

Looks like they released a patch.  Strabo said they had one to be released today and my game updated automatically when I started Steam.

No readme and the splash screen still lists the version as 1.0.  But performance seems much improved.  I made it through the Sept 14 turn in the grand campaign with no crashes or even any slowdowns.  Never made it that far before, so I assume the patch is working.  Too pronounced, I think, to be placebo effect.

Quote from: Queeg on July 15, 2014, 05:40:37 PM
Looks like they released a patch.  Strabo said they had one to be released today and my game updated automatically when I started Steam.

No readme and the splash screen still lists the version as 1.0.  But performance seems much improved.  I made it through the Sept 14 turn in the grand campaign with no crashes or even any slowdowns.  Never made it that far before, so I assume the patch is working.  Too pronounced, I think, to be placebo effect.

Good news -- I've held off buying because of all the reported crashes and apparent memory leaks. But I've been playing WWI Gold the past few weeks, and I'm excited to have a Steam version that has real performance improvements.

Well, I thought I recalled it having a hot seat, but I was mistaken. It has LAN (maybe) and in theory TCP/IP (I was part of an attempt at 5-player TCP/IP that failed, but to be fair that can be goofy anyway), and those are the only way to multiplay the full combat resolutions. PBEM is a mode of single player by the way.

I had also forgotten how UTTERLY WHACK the game option system is: you literally have to start a scenario, like Tanneburg, in order to access the main menu and set the game options. Then quit and restart a game from fresh to apply them.

If the new Steam version fixes this alone, they'll have made a very significant improvement.

Quote from: JasonPratt on July 15, 2014, 07:39:46 PM
Well, I thought I recalled it having a hot seat, but I was mistaken. It has LAN (maybe) and in theory TCP/IP (I was part of an attempt at 5-player TCP/IP that failed, but to be fair that can be goofy anyway), and those are the only way to multiplay the full combat resolutions. PBEM is a mode of single player by the way.

I had also forgotten how UTTERLY WHACK the game option system is: you literally have to start a scenario, like Tanneburg, in order to access the main menu and set the game options. Then quit and restart a game from fresh to apply them.

If the new Steam version fixes this alone, they'll have made a very significant improvement.

As quick as it sounded like it was safe to buy I read something like this.  :o

Quote from: Queeg on July 15, 2014, 05:40:37 PM
Looks like they released a patch.  Strabo said they had one to be released today and my game updated automatically when I started Steam.

No readme and the splash screen still lists the version as 1.0.  But performance seems much improved.  I made it through the Sept 14 turn in the grand campaign with no crashes or even any slowdowns.  Never made it that far before, so I assume the patch is working.  Too pronounced, I think, to be placebo effect.

Play a bit further and let us know.

Quote from: jomni on July 15, 2014, 08:51:57 PM

Quote from: Queeg on July 15, 2014, 05:40:37 PM
Looks like they released a patch.  Strabo said they had one to be released today and my game updated automatically when I started Steam.

No readme and the splash screen still lists the version as 1.0.  But performance seems much improved.  I made it through the Sept 14 turn in the grand campaign with no crashes or even any slowdowns.  Never made it that far before, so I assume the patch is working.  Too pronounced, I think, to be placebo effect.

Play a bit further and let us know.

Started a new GC (4-player) and played for nearly two hours - finished the October 14 turn.  No slow-downs or crashes.  That's the longest I've ever played, so the patch definitely does improve things. 

I'm bogged down in transitioning from an antediluvian computer to a more modern one so I can't really act on anything at the moment. 

But at some point I'm going to load in Random's mods and I was wondering if there was any way of letting steam know they were part of the program so that they don't get erased every time I verify the integrity of local files.

I'd really like to know the answer to that because I have a two-thirds completed historical flag mod for Battle Academy (German and Italian flags done, American flag WIP) that I wont want to see overwritten if I ever get around to finishing it.

And do the Random mods do anything for the 1917 scenario?

Quote from: Philippe on July 17, 2014, 08:01:40 AM
But at some point I'm going to load in Random's mods and I was wondering if there was any way of letting steam know they were part of the program so that they don't get erased every time I verify the integrity of local files.

The good ol' Jonesoft Mod Manager should work just fine for that.  I use it all the time with Steam games.

Quote from: sandman2575 on July 17, 2014, 09:47:15 AM

Quote from: Philippe on July 17, 2014, 08:01:40 AM
But at some point I'm going to load in Random's mods and I was wondering if there was any way of letting steam know they were part of the program so that they don't get erased every time I verify the integrity of local files.

The good ol' Jonesoft Mod Manager should work just fine for that.  I use it all the time with Steam games.

Me too.  Just gotta remember to dump the mods before starting Steam.

Quote from: Philippe on July 17, 2014, 08:01:40 AM
And do the Random mods do anything for the 1917 scenario?

The Random naval mods seem to work fine with CE.  The 1917 scenario was added by the new developer, so Random doesn't have a mod for it.

Also, there is something a bit weird going on with the developer at the moment.  They apparently released a patch a couple of days ago - or at least Steam had a ~6mb update then.  But it seems to have been available for only a few minutes because others on the Steam forum are saying they're not getting the update.  And Strabo, the spokesman for the new developer, seems to have vanished.  No posts on Steam or on the developer's site since the day before he said a patch was on the way.

So either he's playing hooky or something's up.  I've wondered all along whether everything is square with AGEOD on this.  Maybe there's some legal skirmishing going on?

The thing is that it appears the developer has admitted that he (and they) are inexperienced when it comes to working with Steam and the initial game install was different than other Steam games I have. I clicked on Install in Steam and instead of installing automatically after the download, I had to run the install package to actually install the game in a folder of my choosing.

I too got an update a few days ago, but nothing appears to have changed. I froze once yesterday during the Politics phase of the turn.

The game has so much potential if the freezing and memory issues can be worked out and the developer can come forward and explain what they are working on.

Quote from: WallysWorld on July 17, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
I clicked on Install in Steam and instead of installing automatically after the download, I had to run the install package to actually install the game in a folder of my choosing.

I too got an update a few days ago, but nothing appears to have changed. I froze once yesterday during the Politics phase of the turn.

My guess is the update was installed into your Steam folder instead of the folder where you installed the game.  Look in your steamapps/common folder - there's probably a WWI CE folder there.  Look to see if there is an exe file dated 7/11/14.  I think that's all there was to the update.  Try subbing that in for the old exe and I'll bet you'll have the new version.

Quote from: Queeg on July 17, 2014, 04:11:01 PM
My guess is the update was installed into your Steam folder instead of the folder where you installed the game.  Look in your steamapps/common folder - there's probably a WWI CE folder there.  Look to see if there is an exe file dated 7/11/14.  I think that's all there was to the update.  Try subbing that in for the old exe and I'll bet you'll have the new version.

Actually what I did on the 14th was I uninstalled the game and reinstalled it from scratch in the Steam\steamapps\common\World War 1 Centenial Edition folder. The WW1.exe is dated 07/14/2014.

Quote from: WallysWorld on July 17, 2014, 04:28:37 PM

Quote from: Queeg on July 17, 2014, 04:11:01 PM
My guess is the update was installed into your Steam folder instead of the folder where you installed the game.  Look in your steamapps/common folder - there's probably a WWI CE folder there.  Look to see if there is an exe file dated 7/11/14.  I think that's all there was to the update.  Try subbing that in for the old exe and I'll bet you'll have the new version.

Actually what I did on the 14th was I uninstalled the game and reinstalled it from scratch in the Steam\steamapps\common\World War 1 Centenial Edition folder. The WW1.exe is dated 07/14/2014.

I did the exact same thing.  But I had the old installation file from my original installation.  So I reinstalled into my Steam folder using that, and when I launched Steam it updated the exe.  And you're right, the file is dated 7/14.  So you may have the new one. 

Since WW1G was part of my planned giant mega-project of playing as Russia to compare and contrast the various WW1 strategy games available, starting by August...

{inhale}

...then this seems like the best place to announce, for anyone remembering I was planning this, that I'm rather burned out on WW1 strategy games at the moment, largely thanks to being kicked around as Russia by Germany in one game and not wanting to extrapolate that experience across 5 or 6 other games anytime soon.  ::) :P

Please accept this Amazon Blood Bowl AAR (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=10690.0) with my apologies, as a provisionally acceptable substitute, kthxbi.  :D

I loved playing Blood Bowl multi-player.  But the time limits mean it requires your full attention for chunks of time, non-stop.  And Cyanide's crappy netcode would regularly result in the game getting de-sync'd when playing someone overseas (there seems to be an unusually high amount of Frenchmen who love BB - hordes of them).

http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/)

It's vanished off Steam :o

So has Time of Fury...both old Matrix games...

Gamersgate as well.

ToF is still listed at Matrix but there is no WW1:Centennial Edition, if there ever was. Just the WW1:Gold version.

Staggerwing thats because the latest WW1:Centennial Edition has nothing to do with Matrix. It's Steam where they are going missing.

That was my point, if you read my post. I didn't think Centennial was ever at Matrix.

Quote from: Asid on August 07, 2014, 10:44:50 PM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/297090/)

It's vanished off Steam :o

This is rather suspicious.  Did the dev team disappear?

...seems a legal fight may be brewing.

Quote
strabo  [developer] 2 hours ago

I was informed this morning (for me) that some UK company is contesting our property. As a consequence, waiting for news from our lawyers, Steam has temporarily removed the game from selling (but it is still supported and should be playable here).

The action is legally unfounded, as we do own the IP on this game. We'll follow up on that and see what happens.

PS: Queeg, your remark is understandable by also unfounded, and I believe this is the reason of the action we have suffered: Calvinus was and always had the sole full rights and IP to this game, AGEOD never had more than a now-extinct non-exclusive pulbshing agreement (as had Paradox in 2010).

The action is abusive and we shall contest it.


http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373/

[Text removed because it is essentially the same as the previous post]

Hard to escape the impression that the blokes at DigitialFroggies seriously do not have their s**t together.  Dev support since Centennial Edition launched has been very poor -- specifically the lack of communication (and lack of clarity when there had been communication) has been unforgivable.  Doesn't take a huge amount of effort to update your community, even if it's only a quick and timely "we're aware of the difficulties, please be patient as we're working on a solution" message -- or to do basic things like "sticky" important announcements on the game's Steam forum.  Essentially Queeg has been doing their customer support for them.

It looked like progress was being made -- at least they figured out how to get the game to install properly via Steam (even that was a problem with the initial release, amazingly).  But this lawsuit isn't great news.

Love WWI Gold and think it deserves a bigger audience, esp. in this centennial year. Had hopes for Centennial Edition but they have not panned out due to developer's inability to manage basic elements of game promotion and support post-launch.

I was really close to getting this when it first came out on Steam at a discount price....I'm so glad I didn't.

UK Company?  Probably Slitherine / Matrix.

Quote from: jomni on August 08, 2014, 10:27:56 AM
UK Company?  Probably Slitherine / Matrix.

Probably? DEFINITELY.

pretty sure they're based in Montreal.  Small team (3-4 guys?), so I understand they have few resources at their disposal and sympathize. But they just have not been on the ball with this release.  Hope their legal difficulties get resolved quickly and in their favor. 

Well I bought the centennial edition when it came out so I didn't have to screw around with installing WWI and patches. Apparently, that was a mistake

Good news:  installation now working properly.  Bad news:  future of this game is completely uncertain.

It's too bad, really.  Some of the improvements DigitalFroggies added are really nice, especially the much-decreased load times.  And in theory I love having access to WWI Gold on Steam.  But I do kinda wish I had held off on purchasing...

GamersGate is still selling this and has it on sale for $10.  Can someone who bought it off Steam report in as to the state of the game?  Thanks in advance.

Quote from: tgb on September 08, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
GamersGate is still selling this and has it on sale for $10.  Can someone who bought it off Steam report in as to the state of the game?  Thanks in advance.

Seems you get a Steam key....but I thought Steam stopped selling the game for some reason. Searched for it on Steam a minute ago and couldn't find it listed at all. Has me worried about getting it from gamersgate.

Quote from: Rayfer on September 08, 2014, 04:17:35 PM


Seems you get a Steam key....but I thought Steam stopped selling the game for some reason. Searched for it on Steam a minute ago and couldn't find it listed at all. Has me worried about getting it from gamersgate.

The mystery behind this version continues to grow...  ???

We're getting more questions than answers as time progresses.

Quote from: tgb on September 08, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
GamersGate is still selling this and has it on sale for $10.  Can someone who bought it off Steam report in as to the state of the game?  Thanks in advance.

The latest version of CE fixes almost all of the performance issues I had with Gold.  The initial CE release was bugged but they released a couple of patches that resolved them - at least that's been my experience.  The developers never updated the version number on the loading screen, which has created a lot of needless confusion, but I assume Gamersgate has the latest version.  I have heard that CE won't run in XP, but it runs fine for me in Windows 7 and 8.   

The bottom line is that CE is the final patched version of Gold without the performance baggage.  For me anyway, CE runs far better than Gold ever did; I've played more CE in a few weeks than I ever played Gold in years.  Plus, since CE and Gold share the same file structure, all the Gold mods work in CE.  Finally, whatever the outcome of the current legal difficulties, CE won't get any less support from DF than Gold will get from AGEOD - AGEOD hasn't supported Gold in ages. 

But will a gamersgate purchased Steam key work on Steam, who doesn't sell the game any more? At least I couldn't find it there today when I searched. I had read earlier threads that it was pulled from Steam for legal reasons.

Quote from: Rayfer on September 08, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
But will a gamersgate purchased Steam key work on Steam, who doesn't sell the game any more? At least I couldn't find it there today when I searched. I had read earlier threads that it was pulled from Steam for legal reasons.

A guy just posted on the Steam forum that he bought from GG tonight and received a Steam key that works fine.  That's good news. 

Sneaky bastards.   ;D
Makes me want to buy myself. $10 is a steal.

Guess the obvious question is, is it worth $10?

It just worked for me.  8)

Quote from: Kushan on September 08, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
Guess the obvious question is, is it worth $10?

The absolute newbie thread may help answer that question for you: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6547.0

The game is significantly more complicated than what I cover there, which is generally a good thing; but I deal with a lot of the quirkiness in my newbie tutorial.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 09, 2014, 07:24:59 AM

Quote from: Kushan on September 08, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
Guess the obvious question is, is it worth $10?

The absolute newbie thread may help answer that question for you: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6547.0

The game is significantly more complicated than what I cover there, which is generally a good thing; but I deal with a lot of the quirkiness in my newbie tutorial.

Can't believe I haven't seen these.  Thanks.

As for the "Is it worth $10" question:  I'll readily admit to being a big fan of the game, but with that disclaimer, now that CE provides a version of Gold that actually works for me, I'm confident I'll play it at least as much as I'll ever play EAW, which I was happy to buy at four times the price.  Both are equally good, but different, games.   

Quote from: Queeg on September 09, 2014, 05:21:46 PM

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 09, 2014, 07:24:59 AM

Quote from: Kushan on September 08, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
Guess the obvious question is, is it worth $10?

The absolute newbie thread may help answer that question for you: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6547.0

The game is significantly more complicated than what I cover there, which is generally a good thing; but I deal with a lot of the quirkiness in my newbie tutorial.

Can't believe I haven't seen these.  Thanks.

As for the "Is it worth $10" question:  I'll readily admit to being a big fan of the game, but with that disclaimer, now that CE provides a version of Gold that actually works for me, I'm confident I'll play it at least as much as I'll ever play EAW, which I was happy to buy at four times the price.  Both are equally good, but different, games.   

I suspect both EAW and WWI:CE are complex, complicated and have steep learning curves, but is either one less so and by what subjective degree, i.e. is one a lot easier to learn than the other?

WWI CE leads to trench warfare. EAW doesn't.  'Nuff said...

CE is based on a board game so rules are more concrete. Combat is based on numbers and tables. EAW is a bit harder to grasp based on previous Ageod games as more elements are considered in the simulation.

Quote from: Rayfer on September 09, 2014, 05:50:47 PM

I suspect both EAW and WWI:CE are complex, complicated and have steep learning curves, but is either one less so and by what subjective degree, i.e. is one a lot easier to learn than the other?

I've played most of the AGEOD games, so I'm already very familiar with their mechanics.  But I still find WWI Gold/CE to be a bit more accessible.  Like jomni  says, it benefits from having a concrete set of rules - and the manual is very good.  And since it's a mix of grand strategy and war game elements, much of what you do - like diplomacy - isn't based on tables and numbers but more on historical knowledge and common sense.  Since you also fight the battles yourself, you get an idea pretty quickly of what works and why - there's more Pavlovian feedback in the gameplay.

EAW is focused almost exclusively on warfare, with heavy emphasis on army formation and operation.  Combat is a hands-off affair, and while the game generates reams of post-battle data to sift through, it's not always clear why things turned out as they did.  There's just a lot more going on in EAW that is concealed under the hood than there is in Gold/CE.  And, for me at least, undestanding the outcomes in EAW usually requires an understanding of the game system; the results in CE are more often understandable with resort just to common sense.

Bottom line is that Gold/CE does a broader range of things to a complexity level of 7, while EAW does mostly one thing to a complexity level of 10. 

I must have some deficiency because I find the documentation for Gold/CE very hard to get through.  I don't think it's well-written at all.  I plan to check out the tutorials JasonPratt wrote to see if they help.

I think Queeg pretty much nailed it

Quote from: tgb on September 09, 2014, 09:21:34 PM
I must have some deficiency because I find the documentation for Gold/CE very hard to get through.  I don't think it's well-written at all.  I plan to check out the tutorials JasonPratt wrote to see if they help.

I'm going through the tutorials now and they're great. 

As for the CE manual, it's definitely a matter of taste.  I like all the discussion about the various historical variables - it's the kind of detailed discussion about not just the what, but the why, that you just don't see much in manuals anymore. 

I bought it. For a week mind like mine $10 was hard to pass up. Gaming plate is a bit full but I'm going to try and fit it in somewhere. At the very least I'll make an effort to go through JasonPratts tutorials.

Edit: Just tried playing on my surface pro, mainly to see if it would run. Starts up ok but the game doesn't recognize the touchscreen or the MS pen that comes with the surface.

Quote from: Queeg on September 09, 2014, 09:33:20 PM

Quote from: tgb on September 09, 2014, 09:21:34 PM
I must have some deficiency because I find the documentation for Gold/CE very hard to get through.  I don't think it's well-written at all.  I plan to check out the tutorials JasonPratt wrote to see if they help.

I'm going through the tutorials now and they're great. 

As for the CE manual, it's definitely a matter of taste.  I like all the discussion about the various historical variables - it's the kind of detailed discussion about not just the what, but the why, that you just don't see much in manuals anymore.

It's not even the historical stuff.  It's obvious that it was written by someone whose native language isn't English, and some of the phraseology and sentence structure is tough to follow.  I realize the writer's English is better than my French, but still.......

WW1Gold\Centenial is still the best Grand Strat WW1 wargame out there. The mechanics work perfectly and manages to do the whole war without to many issues. EAW sufefrs becasue the engine was  never designed for WW1 and so it has difficulty in doing static attritional warfare with grand offensives.

A shame because some aspects I really like like the reporting system and the combat and the large selection of modifiers etc etc.

Quote from: Kushan on September 09, 2014, 10:51:25 PM
I bought it. For a week mind like mine $10 was hard to pass up. Gaming plate is a bit full but I'm going to try and fit it in somewhere.

As did I.

The one lasting major complaint I had with WWI: Gold, even after the hordes of patches that put it into decent shape, was the sluggishness of the interface and load times.

Hearing that the file structure is the same helped too.  JMass' map mod is great, in case the map isn't bright enough for your tastes.  My sound mod also adjusts some of the more annoying sound files, so I'm glad that I don't have to repackage it (hopefully it's still hosted.. hrmm).

I actually liked WWI Gold if it weren't for a fatal crash that rendered the save game useless. Sometimes, loading the autosave worked but it didn't for me.  I never did restart another campaign.
I bought WWI CE yesterday.  Here's hoping I get to the end of the campaign.  O0

Must admit it is good to see them beat who ever it was (ahem) stopping them from publishing :)

^^ Is it back up on Steam now? I mean visibly available?


Also, I really need to post an updated version of my absolute newbie tutorial, as reading through it yesterday I caught a number of composition goofs and several outright errors.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 10, 2014, 10:39:29 AM
^^ Is it back up on Steam now? I mean visibly available?

I checked last night and it still wasn't showing on steam.

Updates to last year's tutorial now accomplished, appended to end of thread in 5 parts (instead of 13).

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 10, 2014, 12:31:17 PM
Updates to last year's tutorial now accomplished, appended to end of thread in 5 parts (instead of 13).

Very good work! 

You're a good man, Charlie Brown.

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
Must admit it is good to see them beat who ever it was (ahem) stopping them from publishing :)

I'm not sure if this means that issue has been resolved or not.   I hope they resolve it. 

The WWI centennial will only come around once and interest in WWI games will never be higher than it is now.  WWI Gold is dead - AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years - and it seems silly to fight over its carcass.  Even sillier to kill off CE, a version of WWI Gold that actually works. 

I hope they can find a way to work together and get a good game back on the market.

Quote from: Queeg on September 10, 2014, 05:14:37 PM
...The WWI centennial will only come around once and interest in WWI games will never be higher than it is now.  WWI Gold is dead - AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years - and it seems silly to fight over its carcass.  Even sillier to kill off CE, a version of WWI Gold that actually works. 

I hope they can find a way to work together and get a good game back on the market.

Here's the issue I see in all this.  AGEOD (who I like very much btw but I feel I need to speak the truth here) got their pride hurt when some little company out of nowhere comes along and optimizes their code to get the game functioning efficiently while at the same time crushing some bugs.  To End All Wars get's released and it would hurt their sales if they had to compete with another WW1 strategy game, even if said game originated from them in the first place but was optimized by another party.  Of course they are going after them with a lawsuit.  In the end it's all about greed.  I happened to really like WW1 Gold even though it was a clunky mess to play.  Never ran into that crash bug though that prevented one from finishing the game and I managed to get through to the beginning of 1917 as the CP with no problem. 

To End All Wars is an equally brilliant game even though I think it doesn't model the type of warfare of the period that WW1G does.  It's a shame that us WW1 starved strategy gamers can't enjoy both games and help promote sales but I'm sure the corporate bigwigs know what they're doing.   ::)

AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

As far as bugs go. I haven't experienced any crashed with EAW, nor have I in a long time with WW1GOLD however WW1 Centennial has crashed on me several times so far.

Are we sure AGEOD is the one bringing the lawsuit? Wasn't WW1G originally (before it was even 'G'; remember the crooked map?) coded by an outside entity? Perhaps they have an interest in seeing WW1G stay the only incarnation available.

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

AGEOD didn't support it.  Calvinus did, by himself. 

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

I agree.  The developer released many patches over the years.  He even added PBEM which some customers had requested. 

It's not fair to say, "AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years" as Queeg put it.  I hope the follow-up support for the new one approaches that dedication if they are capable of improving it further. 


The latest update for Gold was released in 2013... http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q

Quote from: Staggerwing on September 10, 2014, 09:07:46 PM
Are we sure AGEOD is the one bringing the lawsuit? Wasn't WW1G originally (before it was even 'G'; remember the crooked map?) coded by an outside entity? Perhaps they have an interest in seeing WW1G stay the only incarnation available.

I don't know.  If they weren't behind, seems like they'd say so and make that clear.  But I don't know.

And, honestly, I don't have a problem with folks protecting their rights.  If whoever is behind the claim is right legally, then more power to them.

But this does demonstrate, to me anyway, that some of the problems with AGEOD games (certainly WWIG and perhaps PON) may be due less to AGEOD being a small developer than to their just not being especially capable in the some of the more technical areas.  WWIG ran like molasses and PON turn times were epically slow - and EAW seems to duplicate PON in that respect.  When some even smaller developer, who no one has ever heard of before, comes out of the blue and does such an impressive job of overhauling one of AGEOD's games, I just can't help but wonder if there aren't some fundamental technical problems with the AGEOD engine that might benefit from the same treatment.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2014, 09:27:02 PM

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

I agree.  The developer released many patches over the years.  He even added PBEM which some customers had requested. 

It's not fair to say, "AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years" as Queeg put it.  I hope the follow-up support for the new one approaches that dedication if they are capable of improving it further. 


The latest update for Gold was released in 2013... http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q

To my observation, Calvinus was a one-man show on WWI Gold.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the game ever having the attention of anyone else there.  If I'm wrong about that, then I stand corrected.

EDIT:   I realize I haven't expressed myself well on this point.  Calvinus did a fantastic job supporting the game.  He managed to fix almost all of the game-play related bugs, and left a mature game that does a uniquely great job of modeling WWI at both the strategic and military level.  But it never ran well - which I know was as frustrating for Calvinus as it was for those who loved the game. 

AGEOD never really got behind the game as a company - Calvinus seemed always to be on an island, struggling to support the game by himself.   I have to think that has to be part of the reason why he ultimately sold the rights to a new developer.  The fact that the new guys were able to overhaul the game engine so quickly and so completely just suggests to me that AGEOD could have done the same thing had it been a priority.  It's in that sense - being content to let a great game sit there in an unplayable state when it actually was quite fixable - that AGEOD failed to support the game. 

Had Calvinus been satisfied with the state of Gold, there wouldn't be a CE. 

Quote from: Queeg on September 10, 2014, 09:37:33 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2014, 09:27:02 PM

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

I agree.  The developer released many patches over the years.  He even added PBEM which some customers had requested. 

It's not fair to say, "AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years" as Queeg put it.  I hope the follow-up support for the new one approaches that dedication if they are capable of improving it further. 


The latest update for Gold was released in 2013... http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q

To my observation, Calvinus was a one-man show on WWI Gold.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the game ever having the attention of anyone else there.  If I'm wrong about that, then I stand corrected.

EDIT:   I realize I haven't expressed myself well on this point.  Calvinus did a fantastic job supporting the game.  He managed to fix almost all of the game-play related bugs, and left a mature game that does a uniquely great job of modeling WWI at both the strategic and military level.  But it never ran well - which I know was as frustrating for Calvinus as it was for those who loved the game. 

AGEOD never really got behind the game as a company - Calvinus seemed always to be on an island, struggling to support the game by himself.   I have to think that has to be part of the reason why he ultimately sold the rights to a new developer.  The fact that the new guys were able to overhaul the game engine so quickly and so completely just suggests to me that AGEOD could have done the same thing had it been a priority.  It's in that sense - being content to let a great game sit there in an unplayable state when it actually was quite fixable - that AGEOD failed to support the game. 

Had Calvinus been satisfied with the state of Gold, there wouldn't be a CE.

Queeg speaks the truth

Queeg For Truth!  O0

Quote from: Queeg on September 10, 2014, 09:37:33 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2014, 09:27:02 PM

Quote from: TacticalWargames on September 10, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
AGEOD hasn't supported the game in years!!??

Calvinos constantly made patches over a period of four years..so that remark is totally unfair.

I agree.  The developer released many patches over the years.  He even added PBEM which some customers had requested. 

It's not fair to say, "AGEOD hasn't supported the game in any meaningful way for years" as Queeg put it.  I hope the follow-up support for the new one approaches that dedication if they are capable of improving it further. 


The latest update for Gold was released in 2013... http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q

To my observation, Calvinus was a one-man show on WWI Gold.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the game ever having the attention of anyone else there.  If I'm wrong about that, then I stand corrected.

EDIT:   I realize I haven't expressed myself well on this point.  Calvinus did a fantastic job supporting the game.  He managed to fix almost all of the game-play related bugs, and left a mature game that does a uniquely great job of modeling WWI at both the strategic and military level.  But it never ran well - which I know was as frustrating for Calvinus as it was for those who loved the game. 

AGEOD never really got behind the game as a company - Calvinus seemed always to be on an island, struggling to support the game by himself.   I have to think that has to be part of the reason why he ultimately sold the rights to a new developer.  The fact that the new guys were able to overhaul the game engine so quickly and so completely just suggests to me that AGEOD could have done the same thing had it been a priority.  It's in that sense - being content to let a great game sit there in an unplayable state when it actually was quite fixable - that AGEOD failed to support the game. 

Had Calvinus been satisfied with the state of Gold, there wouldn't be a CE.

Sorry, I mistook your original quote as meaning it didn't receive any further support at all.

I know Calvinus worked long and hard fixing it up, but eventually moved on.  I'm surprised only one person could produce such a monster game in the first place, it being a side job.  He certainly spent a lot of time on it so the accusation of "no support" made me scratch my head. 

From what I understand AGEOD was just selling the game and hosting updates, with no developmental involvement. 

What still baffles me, though, is how completely inept CE's devs, DigitalFroggies, have been throughout all this.  They haven't issued any informational updates that I'm aware of since the game got embargoed on Steam due to a legal challenge -- which was several weeks ago now.  I mean, just radio silence.  And even before that, their inability to communicate even basic information -- about updates, the state of the game, etc. -- was breathtaking. 

Queeg has done far more promo work for CE than they have themselves. 

I understand that this legal challenge is a very big deal for them, but jesus, it's not too much to ask to get a simple status update from time to time.  Threads on the CE Steam forum -- with titles like "Where did this game go?" and "Is this game dead?" -- are just testimony to how bad their post-launch support has been.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 11, 2014, 09:39:45 AM

Sorry, I mistook your original quote as meaning it didn't receive any further support at all.

I know Calvinus worked long and hard fixing it up, but eventually moved on.  I'm surprised only one person could produce such a monster game in the first place, it being a side job.  He certainly spent a lot of time on it so the accusation of "no support" made me scratch my head. 

From what I understand AGEOD was just selling the game and hosting updates, with no developmental involvement.

I wasn't clear in my original post.  This whole situation is odd. 

Quote from: sandman2575 on September 11, 2014, 10:25:23 AM
What still baffles me, though, is how completely inept CE's devs, DigitalFroggies, have been throughout all this.  They haven't issued any informational updates that I'm aware of since the game got embargoed on Steam due to a legal challenge -- which was several weeks ago now.  I mean, just radio silence.  And even before that, their inability to communicate even basic information -- about updates, the state of the game, etc. -- was breathtaking. 

Queeg has done far more promo work for CE than they have themselves. 

I understand that this legal challenge is a very big deal for them, but jesus, it's not too much to ask to get a simple status update from time to time.  Threads on the CE Steam forum -- with titles like "Where did this game go?" and "Is this game dead?" -- are just testimony to how bad their post-launch support has been.

No arguments there.  Which just adds to the overall weirdness of the situation.  I said from the very beginning that I was skeptical that Calvinus could just up and sell all the rights to a third party - so it may well be that the legal challenge, whatever it is and whoever is making it, is a legitimate one.  And I can't complain about someone protecting their rights.

But the broader question is why did the game ever end up in this schizophrenic state?  I just hope cooler heads will prevail and the folks who are fighting will recognize that the only game with a future is CE and killing it won't help anyone.  The window of opportunity on the centennial of the The Great War and the corresponding interest in WWI games is closing.   

I also find it very strange that the game is now selling on Gamersgate, but was pulled from Steam, and yet you need a Steam key to activate it -- ??  Reading the tea leaves from Strabo (DigitalFroggies spokesperson), it sounded like Steam had pulled it because of the legal challenge.  And yet it's now OK for it to retail on GG?

Quote from: sandman2575 on September 11, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
I also find it very strange that the game is now selling on Gamersgate, but was pulled from Steam, and yet you need a Steam key to activate it -- ??  Reading the tea leaves from Strabo (DigitalFroggies spokesperson), it sounded like Steam had pulled it because of the legal challenge.  And yet it's now OK for it to retail on GG?

Perhaps fulfilling a contractual obligation to GG?

Or perhaps an agreed way to gauge the interest in the game, so the parties involved know the value of what they're fighting over?

We can only wonder.  But if the latter, GG should really be selling it full-price.  Selling at $10, which is practically giving it away, is sure to attract customers who might have only been mildly interested in the game otherwise --

I'm wondering if I should risk the 10 dollars and get it while it's cheap on GG. 

Quote from: W8taminute on September 11, 2014, 02:53:25 PM
I'm wondering if I should risk the 10 dollars and get it while it's cheap on GG.

Well, you know what I think....   ;)

I did this morning.

I'll probably get it as well before the sale goes off.  With the sale, 20% off GG Autumn coupon, and a few Blue coins I can grab it for ~$4.

I took advantage of the sale. 

Can't help it, when I see that $10 price point the red mist descends and I wake up next to a dead ho ....er... I mean a brand new game that I'll likely never play.

Add me to the list taking advantage before the price goes back up.   :)

Crap, I totally forgot about the 20% coupon!! -- I picked up everything this morning on sale I cared to buy already (and didn't already have)...  :'(

I have WW1 Gold, but is it worth buying the CE in the sale? Is it really a big improvement?

Quote from: Boggit on September 13, 2014, 09:16:23 AM
I have WW1 Gold, but is it worth buying the CE in the sale? Is it really a big improvement?

Others can chime in with their experiences, but CE has been worth it for me.  I tried to play Gold several times over the years, on multiple different computers, and it was never playable - load times were long, the cursor was erratic and the overall performance sluggish.  I never got beyond late 1914 in the main campaign before giving up in frustration. 

CE, for me anyway, is like night and day different - the game loads in seconds and just works.  I sometimes notice a bit of a slow-down after an hour or so - the first sign is that the cursor becomes slightly imprecise.  When that happens, I just save, quit and restart - all of which takes less than 30 seconds since the game loads so fast.  I'm finally able to play the game the way it was intended.

Plus, CE adds a 1917 scenario and some graphics changes (the latter are nice but not, by themselves, a reason to buy the game). 

On the technical side, I have found a couple of settings in the Configurator menu that seem to make a difference.  First, set "load all map at start" to Off (the opposite of the preferred setting in Gold) and "disable vertical-synch" to Off.  In the Windows/Compatibility menu, I also check "disable display scaling on high DPI settings" (though I can't really point to any clear evidence that's necessary - just a tip I picked up somewhere). 

Finally, I have heard that CE doesn't work well with XP.  I've run it on Win 7 and 8.1. 

EDIT:  I guess the bottom line is that if you were able to play Gold and feel like you got everything the game had to offer, then there's probably no real need to get CE.  It's 90% Gold in terms of content.  But, if Gold was a game you always wanted to play but couldn't, then CE should easily be worth the $10. 

^^ Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I might get it in the sale.

I just want to thank JasonPratt for his great tutorial.  I've bought this game 3 times now - when it originally came out with the sideways map, the Gold  upgrade, and now on sale at GG.  Every time I install it, play the "tutorials", try to make some sense out of the manual, start a scenario and try to push some counters around, get confused and frustrated, and uninstall. Thanks to Jason it's finally starting to come together for me.

Hey Jason - how about tackling WitP and WitE next?

Quote from: tgb on September 13, 2014, 10:12:09 AM
I've bought this game 3 times now - when it originally came out with the sideways map, the Gold  upgrade, and now on sale at GG. 

Come to think of it, so have I.  I forgot about the the pre-Gold version.   :idiot2:

Quote from: tgb on September 13, 2014, 10:12:09 AM
I just want to thank JasonPratt for his great tutorial.  I've bought this game 3 times now - when it originally came out with the sideways map, the Gold  upgrade, and now on sale at GG.  Every time I install it, play the "tutorials", try to make some sense out of the manual, start a scenario and try to push some counters around, get confused and frustrated, and uninstall. Thanks to Jason it's finally starting to come together for me.

Hey Jason - how about tackling WitP and WitE next?

+1 on thanking JP for his efforts, I am reading them now and it is helping me wrap my head around this deep game. I never played the original so I can't comment on queeg's comparisons.  But for $10.00 for a Steam key on Gamersgate....it is well worth the coin.  And thanks to queeg for posting those tips on getting better performance.

Spent a little time last night with CE and just wanted to post a few comments here. 

1.  Make sure you check the validation of installed files as I had trouble loading scenarios.  Once I validated the installed files the system found 4 that needed to be loaded again.  Ran validation a second time and the game loaded the scenarios with no issues.

2.  Initial game startup and scenario load times are blazing fast compared to La Grande Guerre and WW1 Gold both of which I have. 

3.  Wait time between turns is definitely faster in CE than the previous versions.  Not blazingly fast but at least noticeably faster than the old game.

4.  Happy with my decision to pay the 10 dollars and get the game.  Playing this now in conjunction with To End All Wars and having a blast at what each of these games offers. 

I ALWAYS had the impression that AGEoD was somehow embarrassed of this WWI game and it seemed to me that they constantly distanced themselves from it. Yes the game has always had problems, but to me, it was far more engrossing than any of their other games save my initial impressions of the debut Birth of America, which was a breath of fresh air at the time.

 8) Y'all are quite welcome!

I have indeed thought about applying the same basic study progression to other huge chit-kickers like the Grigsby Goliaths; but I'd kind of like to add a few more chapters to this one, too, for dealing with the strategy elements -- though my intuitive impression is that the strat portions per se aren't so different from other games, and that once I learn how to move and fight accurately the strategic layer should be no problem.

Just got it with a few hours to spare. :o

On sale again (-50%) : http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/be/en/pc/games/strategy/world-war-one-centennial-edition/

Requires a steam account although steam no longer sells it (and removed all info on it).

It seems the new publishers have abandoned this game and there won't be any new updates or further patches.

It's really a shame that CE ended up this way.  I haven't put much time into myself, but the performance improvements over the Gold Edition were substantial, and it included some nice graphical updates.

I still haven't bought To End All Wars -- it seems redundant in light of what Centennial Edition offers. World War One Gold remains my favorite AGEOD title, probably because it doesn't play like other AGEOD titles. Little things -- like having some input into battles, playing the corps 'cards' to determine outcomes -- were IMO much more fun than the usual automated AGEOD battle resolution.

I'm not sure we ever learned more about the legal challenges brought against DigitalFroggies for producing CE? One assumes AGEOD was behind it, seeing in CE a competitor to TEAW, and I'm not judging if they're in the right or wrong (they may well be in the right). But DigitalFroggies seemed really inept when it came to how they handled the launch of this game.  And it's just too bad things appear to have ended in this sad state of affairs...

I thought about trying the demo over at the Matrix site but the screenies look so old. Now that To End All Wars has been out for some time, how do the two match up? Anybody?

Sir Slash, did you acquire a new pug?

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 06, 2015, 12:44:40 PM

I'm not sure we ever learned more about the legal challenges brought against DigitalFroggies for producing CE? One assumes AGEOD was behind it, seeing in CE a competitor to TEAW, and I'm not judging if they're in the right or wrong (they may well be in the right). But DigitalFroggies seemed really inept when it came to how they handled the launch of this game.  And it's just too bad things appear to have ended in this sad state of affairs...

It is over, no more hope for any patching


JTC  [developer] on Steam forums :

Well it's quite simple... we need a court order to force them to let us sell (and support) the game here and they have the money to make the case last forever while we don t. We have a clear cut legal read of the contracts but it only works if you can say that in front of a judge... and to go there it costs a lot of money ...



A big UK studio with a well-known nasty attitude towards developers globally and whose stated goal is to kill any competitor.

To give you an idea, they approached us to "be our publisher" after the game was released asking for 50% of the revenue and all their costs covered, which we obviously refused and this is when the legal threats were launched. All they wanted is to make enough noise to take the game off Steam so that it does not compete with the release of their own product and they were successful. Steam is too big to have the energy or time to enter into this kind of dispute (and frankly I can understand them) and they asked both parties to come back to them with a common position, which "they" (the UK studio) never even wanted to consider (or even meet to exchange on the respective positions of the parties).

I will stop there because I'm quite bitter but I will never buy any of their games anymore and will warn any studio that comes close to them to avoid them at ALL cost. Some money is not worth partnering with this kind of people. Since then we've done our DD and we got mulitple example of these guys' behaviour and trust me it is vulture-like. So we were not the first and probably not the last.

In any case, for you to know, we ve sold the company and our rights to this game and a few other projects to a fellow canadian company who will continue to support the game and make sure it is available on other platforms, and maybe hopefully on Steam at some point again. I'll come back here from time to time but unfortunately our adventure has come to an end in a very bitter fashion.



Thanks a lot everyone for your support.

Part of the team including Strabo who led the design and patching are leaving with an original project we had ongoing to join a new company and my time here is finishing as I'm going back to what I was doing previously.

I just wanted to help everyone understand the issue that led to us disappearing from these boards and from Steam, unfortunately.

We've ensured a fellow indie studio from Montreal will take over our company and continue to support the game to keep it available on all other platforms and hopefully convince Steam to bring it back at some point.

Goodbye everyone and thanks again. Please continue to support the indies and ensure predatory behaviour is unacceptable and punished as it should be.

Cheers  Speak on other channels hopefully

Interesting.  My supposition was wrong -- AGEOD wasn't involved, it appears.

No bbmike. That's an old pic of a very special pug I had years ago. Miss him still.  :'(

Quote from: Pete Dero on March 06, 2015, 01:36:41 PM

It is over, no more hope for any patching

JTC  [developer] on Steam forums ....

Do you have the link to that discussion?

Quote from: Greybriar on March 06, 2015, 04:47:28 PM
Do you have the link to that discussion?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373 (http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373)

Quote from: Sir Slash on March 06, 2015, 02:30:19 PM
No bbmike. That's an old pic of a very special pug I had years ago. Miss him still.  :'(

Sorry to hear that. I had a pug in the 80's I feel the same way about. One day, I will get another pug.  :)

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 06, 2015, 01:48:50 PM
Interesting.  My supposition was wrong -- AGEOD wasn't involved, it appears.

Slitherine is my guess. 

It would be nice to see a new patch or two, but the game already was in good shape patch-wise.  Calvinus did a great job of supporting the game in terms of game play patches.  The real problem was always performance, which CE fixed. 

So there's really no reason to be concerned about buying CE from a support perspective - it's basically a WWI Gold that actually runs.

Quote from: Queeg on March 06, 2015, 07:29:47 PM
Slitherine is my guess. 

This occurred to me as well, 'UK studio' with a WW1-themed competitor in the form of Commander, the Great War...

I just bought it from greenmangaming.com. I had previously purchased the "gold" version, but I'm all for paying for it again to get an improved version. It's downloading via Steam as I type this.

I am bound and determined to finally play this game. It's taken me 7 years and two purchases, but I think it's time to really dig into it.  :)

Given your love of WOFF, Slick, I'd think this would be right up your alley.   :)

I likewise had many abortive attempts trying to figure out Gold over the years -- but once it clicked, the game really started to draw me in.  The UI remains quirky even under the best circumstances, although Centennial Edition helps a bit in alleviating Gold's often sluggish performance.

Speaking of WOFF, really time I got back into that.  I got discouraged by having so many careers end after a couple of missions. But maybe time now to give it another go, and buy the latest update with Zeppelins while I'm at it...

Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 06, 2015, 08:29:40 PM
I just bought it from greenmangaming.com. I had previously purchased the "gold" version, but I'm all for paying for it again to get an improved version. It's downloading via Steam as I type this.

I am bound and determined to finally play this game. It's taken me 7 years and two purchases, but I think it's time to really dig into it.  :)

As with some other AGEOD games (i.e., PON), my experience with WWI Gold consisted mainly of loading it up, looking around a bit and wishing it actually worked so I could play it.  CE finally allowed me to actually play the game.

Some guy has made some nice mods for CE - a new counter and a new wounded unit icon, for example - that you can find over on the Steam forum if you poke around a bit. 

EDIT:  One piece of advice:  Don't check the "Load entire map at start" box.  That was required in Gold to get even passable performance but will crash CE.  And CE runs just fine without it.

Quote from: amandachen on March 06, 2015, 06:13:19 PM

Quote from: Greybriar on March 06, 2015, 04:47:28 PM
Do you have the link to that discussion?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373 (http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373)

Thanks. That got me to the thread where I found JTC's post (http://steamcommunity.com/app/297090/discussions/0/35220315661528373#c612823460252188212) quoted above.

Quote from: Pete Dero on March 06, 2015, 01:36:41 PM


JTC  [developer] on Steam forums :

A big UK studio with a well-known nasty attitude towards developers globally and whose stated goal is to kill any competitor.

To give you an idea, they approached us to "be our publisher" after the game was released asking for 50% of the revenue and all their costs covered, which we obviously refused and this is when the legal threats were launched. i]

Cheers  Speak on other channels hopefully

If that's anywhere near  the facts of it, it sucks big-time.

The game: can anybody compare this and To End All Wars? Is there a clear one is better that the other?

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 06, 2015, 08:35:35 PM


Speaking of WOFF, really time I got back into that.  I got discouraged by having so many careers end after a couple of missions. But maybe time now to give it another go, and buy the latest update with Zeppelins while I'm at it...

I found that charging off, away from your flight, can get you killed quickly.  So even if you see what looks to be an easy kill nearby that your AI flight leader refuses to go after, there could be a sound reason behind his decision.  In such cases where I made a detour to attack what looked to be few enemies there was often another hostile flight nearby that bounced me after I engaged. 

Also try to be aware of when they disengage and run from a dogfight.  The AI is usually very survival oriented so if a big fight is taking awhile, they tend to run for home at the first chance.  Probably for fear of other enemy flights happening by and joining, which is often a possibility especially on the German side of the lines.


As for WWI:CE, I'm sad to hear it isn't going to get more updates.  Wasn't it giving people crashes?  My biggest complaint left about the original WWI Gold was the sluggishness.

WW1 Gold\ Centennial is still for me the best WW1 wargame, the mechanics work for all stages of the War. Next comes Squad Battles FWW and then JTS France '14. Best game set in WW1..is.. Wings Over Flanders Field Version 2...easy answer:)

Quote from: TacticalWargames on March 07, 2015, 02:46:46 PM
WW1 Gold\ Centennial is still for me the best WW1 wargame, the mechanics work for all stages of the War. Next comes Squad Battles FWW and then JTS France '14. Best game set in WW1..is.. Wings Over Flanders Field Version 2...easy answer:)

I think " to end all wars" has shaped up to be a pretty good World War I game;  much better with than when it first started. World War I centennial I think is the best representation but it's done now

Quote from: mikeck on March 07, 2015, 03:14:42 PM

Quote from: TacticalWargames on March 07, 2015, 02:46:46 PM
WW1 Gold\ Centennial is still for me the best WW1 wargame, the mechanics work for all stages of the War. Next comes Squad Battles FWW and then JTS France '14. Best game set in WW1..is.. Wings Over Flanders Field Version 2...easy answer:)

I think " to end all wars" has shaped up to be a pretty good World War I game;  much better with than when it first started. World War I centennial I think is the best representation but it's done now

+1  O0

Quote from: mikeck on March 07, 2015, 03:14:42 PM

Quote from: TacticalWargames on March 07, 2015, 02:46:46 PM
WW1 Gold\ Centennial is still for me the best WW1 wargame, the mechanics work for all stages of the War. Next comes Squad Battles FWW and then JTS France '14. Best game set in WW1..is.. Wings Over Flanders Field Version 2...easy answer:)

I think " to end all wars" has shaped up to be a pretty good World War I game;  much better with than when it first started. World War I centennial I think is the best representation but it's done now

I have real dilemma with these games. I watch AARs and think of pulling the trigger, then remember how AGOED interphase really rubbed me the wrong way with PRoN and AJE