Has anyone else had the 2.12 patch break the activation on MG module? I had to do a reinstall after a HW issue and applied the 2.12 patch. My MG activation went away. Went back and reinstalled but applied 2.11 and no issues. 2.12 breaks it again.
I saw on the BFC forums that some other people have noticed the issue starting a few weeks ago. BFC initially responded that they were looking into it. That was almost a week ago. I would have thought it would be a fairly high priority.
I had today as a free full day of gaming and planned on going H2H with a friend from Liverpool and he is on 2.12. Just curious if any knows the compatibility issues on 2.12 vs 2.11?
I've been running 2.12 for quite some time without any issues. The only Combat Mission game I've had to do the re-activation game with has been CBFI, and then only once.
I think something broke recently with the activation system. A few people on BFC have been complaining about it recently. I bet if you went to do a reinstall, MG would get borked.
It happened to me and with my Battlefront support ticket, we've tried numerous things to try to fix it. The support person seems to think it has to do with my anti-virus (Avast) or my firewall, but I've shut both off during the patch install and licensing activation and still no go on MG.
2.11 works fine, but as soon as I install 2.12, MG doesn't show up in CMBN even though the license says it's been activated.
It might end up being AV, but I use Windows Defender and have the issue. They love throwing AV companies under the bus for activation issues. Something on their end changed recently. 2.12 worked three months ago when I installed on this laptop. Had to do a new HD in it and now 2.12 does't work from a clean image of the drive on a twin of the hardware.
They aren't keeping people well informed of their progress on the issue.
Just got the good old gsclean utility that wipes out the CMBN 2.0 activations. Ran it and guess what...I have no activations left. Even if it had worked, I had to go through some stupid procedure to manually activate the Market Garden module. This is bordering on Graviteam patching process level of support incompetence.
Before the DRM mobs show up, I again will state that I don't mind competently run DRM. I hate with a passion piss-poorly run DRM by small companies that don't have the resources to do it right.
I have now wasted my entire day f___ing around with BFC and this issue. And still not resolved. I started this cluster at 8AM this morning...14 hours and at least 4 or 5 complete reinstalls of CMBO later and not much closer.
btw, the reason I have run out of activations is because of adding RAM and a usb drive previously that killed activations. I have had a HDD failure and a new laptop. Now this gsclean utility will haunt me the rest of my life. Any time I lose an activation, I will have to contact BFC and depend on them to reactivate CMBN for me.
technically, you did spend the day with a game.
be careful what you wish for. O0
A day of game patching is usually reserved for Graviteam...BFC has been joining the club lately.
The support person sent me the gsclean utility to see if wiping out the license activation would solve it and it didn't. Even tried turning off Windows DEP for the MG module to no avail. The support person has told me that this issue has them perplexed, but I'm willing to be patient.
But I'm glad I'm not the only sufferer with this because if I was the only one, that means the issue is with my computer.
The knee-jerk reaction is always to send out gsclean. They don't seem to consider that it kills one of your four activations. I have never had anyone from BFC offer to give my activation back to me.
btw, there are 5-6 separate people since mid-June that have had the issue. I am sure there are more potential candidates out there that just haven't installed/reinstalled 2.12.
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
BF support will not reset my licenses either. Pretty awesome.
I've had a run in with their DRM before - only one - but when it hits, it hits hard. IIRC I was out of action for a couple of weeks. And this bollocks about your firewall/anti virus needing to be switched off or changed (yes - I was told that) is just ludicrous.
And I agree - why not unlicence when uninstalling. The different activation systems for their different games is also a HUGE pita - which I was caught out with when I built a new PC. I can't remember which way round I did it, but I read the licencing details and followed them - only to find out those instructions didn't apply to the other games. I can't remember whether it was CM:BfN I read or CM:SF - but whichever way it happened, it screwed up the other and I had to contact their support
I'm usually tolerant to DRM but all this talk on Battlefront's make me want to avoid it.
Like most DRM's - when it works, few people care. But they often bite you in the arse eventually.
As I said, I've only had two issues with their DRM - one was it just wouldn't connect to their server and the other was mixed DRM unlicensing advice for their different games.
I don't have Market Garden so can't comment on that particular issue.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
BF support will not reset my licenses either. Pretty awesome.
Why won't they reset your license? I'm having this problem too. I sent an email to BF support on Saturday afternoon and within 2 hours I received a response from John telling me no problem, he would reset my licenses. It has not been done yet, but I'm hopeful it will get sorted quickly now that the holiday weekend is over. I'm annoyed that I even have to ask for more licenses in the first place, but if all it takes is an email, I can live with that.
Not to hijack this thread about specific licensing and DRM issues, but something that has also puzzled me about the Combat Mission series is their patching process as well. I think we all have bashed Graviteam's patching headaches for their series of games (AP: OP Star. etc.) but after reading this thread I also had an interest to play a little Shock Force so I went to try and figure out how to install everything again since I own all the modules. Here are the instructions I found. The instructions are easy enough to follow but the fact that you need these detailed instructions to figure it out still frustrates me. Can't they make a comprehensive patch system where you simply install all the modules and apply one big patch? Its things like this (even if petty) keep me going back to certain titles.
*** Patching Process***
Install CMSF, do NOT license it if it is a Battlefront version.
Install the v. 1.10 patch for your distribution (Battlefront or Paradox). This step is sometimes not needed if you have the Marines module, but bundles that include the Marines module may not have all of the necessary files that are part of the v. 1.10 patch.
If you have the Marines module, install it now.
If you have the Marines module, launch CMSF and use the Marines license key to activate (this activates both CMSF and the Marines module).
If you have the British Forces module, install it now.
If you have the British Forces module, launch CMSF and use the British Forces license key to activate it now.
Install the v. 1.21 patch. Make sure to make the correct selections for the modules you have. Making an incorrect selection will result in modules disappearing or license key requests for modules you do not have. If you run into this problem reinstall the v. 1.21 patch again and make the correct selections. You must install the v. 1.21 patch BEFORE installing the NATO module.
If you have the NATO module, install it now.
If you have the NATO module, launch CMSF and use the NATO license key to activate it now.
Install the v. 1.31 patch. Make sure to make the correct selections for the modules you have. Making an incorrect selection will result in modules disappearing or license key requests for modules you do not have. If you run into this problem reinstall the v. 1.31 patch again and make the correct selections.
Install the v. 1.32 patch. Make sure to make the correct selections for the modules you have. Making an incorrect selection will result in modules disappearing or license key requests for modules you do not have. If you run into this problem reinstall the v. 1.32 patch again and make the correct selections.
In my opinion CMBN is even more complicated. I have had to reinstall it a couple times and there is just enough ambiguity to make some guess work on patches vs module sequence.
The other problem is that they are sometimes slow to update procedures in their knowledgebase on the support site. And that seems to be where they want people to go. I have always felt they should keep an updated FAQ installation right in the forum. It seems they would rather resolve everything through tickets on support site..not sure why. They could save themselves a lot of effort.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 07, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
BF support will not reset my licenses either. Pretty awesome.
Why won't they reset your license? I'm having this problem too. I sent an email to BF support on Saturday afternoon and within 2 hours I received a response from John telling me no problem, he would reset my licenses. It has not been done yet, but I'm hopeful it will get sorted quickly now that the holiday weekend is over. I'm annoyed that I even have to ask for more licenses in the first place, but if all it takes is an email, I can live with that.
I have never had them reset a license through email...and I have had to do it a few times. Its always connected to a ticket submission on their support site.
Quote from: RyanE on July 07, 2014, 06:12:50 AM
In my opinion CMBN is even more complicated. I have had to reinstall it a couple times and there is just enough ambiguity to make some guess work on patches vs module sequence.
The other problem is that they are sometimes slow to update procedures in their knowledgebase on the support site. And that seems to be where they want people to go. I have always felt they should keep an updated FAQ installation right in the forum. It seems they would rather resolve everything through tickets on support site..not sure why. They could save themselves a lot of effort.
I would still rank Graviteam more difficulty, but Battlefront still no picnic.....
The only thing I'll say about Graviteam is that it stays consistent. BFC's process seems to change as patches and modules are released.
Neither do a good job of documenting it.
Quote from: RyanE on July 07, 2014, 06:15:03 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 07, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
BF support will not reset my licenses either. Pretty awesome.
Why won't they reset your license? I'm having this problem too. I sent an email to BF support on Saturday afternoon and within 2 hours I received a response from John telling me no problem, he would reset my licenses. It has not been done yet, but I'm hopeful it will get sorted quickly now that the holiday weekend is over. I'm annoyed that I even have to ask for more licenses in the first place, but if all it takes is an email, I can live with that.
I have never had them reset a license through email...and I have had to do it a few times. Its always connected to a ticket submission on their support site.
There is an email address elicense@battlefront.com. That's what I used.
John may have created a ticket thereafter to resolve the issue.
What has been the result of your support ticket submissions?
This is what happens when you use a third party DRM, that you don't have full control over!
and
You don't have an build-in update utility for your software!
Battlefront's products have become too complex (too many variables) for manual updates any more. One mistake and one or more of your activations go bye bye!
Quote from: RyanE on July 06, 2014, 11:17:23 AM
I think something broke recently with the activation system. A few people on BFC have been complaining about it recently. I bet if you went to do a reinstall, MG would get borked.
Complaining? On Battlefronts website? Have they been banned yet?
Never knew about the email box...
Generally, they have reset within 24 hours. I have gone as long as three days.
This one is different though. I think they are grasping at straws and just delaying me by making jump through some hoops until they figure it out. I still have not heard about any new activations yet.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
I've done that. It's a pain. I totally agree with your suggestion. It makes a lot of sense. :)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 07, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Quote from: RyanE on July 07, 2014, 06:15:03 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 07, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
BF support will not reset my licenses either. Pretty awesome.
Why won't they reset your license? I'm having this problem too. I sent an email to BF support on Saturday afternoon and within 2 hours I received a response from John telling me no problem, he would reset my licenses. It has not been done yet, but I'm hopeful it will get sorted quickly now that the holiday weekend is over. I'm annoyed that I even have to ask for more licenses in the first place, but if all it takes is an email, I can live with that.
I have never had them reset a license through email...and I have had to do it a few times. Its always connected to a ticket submission on their support site.
There is an email address elicense@battlefront.com. That's what I used.
John may have created a ticket thereafter to resolve the issue.
What has been the result of your support ticket submissions?
I had SCWW1 Breakthrough break the license when I ran the latest patch. John was on it pretty quickly, and sent me Gsclean to fix it which it did. I asked for a credit on activations, but have no idea whether that was done or not, as there was no reply on that point.
The main issue is you have no idea where you stand with activations. A number of times when I have had activation issues, I have re-entered a license number. I have no clue if that decrements the activations or not. And with the 12 or so lost activations over the 15 or so games/modules I have from BFC, they have never given me back any more than the one I needed at that moment.
They were supposed to give one new activation each year you owned the game. But they said they had issues with the process and I haven't heard mention of it in years. This DRM issue is the dirty little secret of BFC that I think limits the game to only people who are truly dedicated or vested in the games. Casual players are not going to go through this process. Hardcore players will say that it is worth it or the pain isn't much compared to the enjoyment. But when you have limited playing time, any hassle is too much hassle.
btw, support sent me an email saying CMBN is activated again, but no mention of getting any of my activations back. No activation given to me for MG though. I am again SOL if something happens. The support person stated they are look into a bug in 2.12 that is killing some activations.
Quote from: Boggit on July 07, 2014, 07:05:14 PM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 06, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Somewhere in the world there is a former computer of mine with a license for Shock Force Marines, which I forgot to unlicense before uninstalling.
It would make to much sense to incorporate the unlicensing process with the uninstall process. :2funny:
I've done that. It's a pain. I totally agree with your suggestion. It makes a lot of sense. :)
I think it is part of uninstall...at least in later versions. I uninstalled CMSF and all its modules and the uninstall worked well. I have never had an issue with CMSF's unlicense process. The issue is if you don't get a chance to unlicense.
Quote from: RyanE on July 07, 2014, 07:20:50 PM
The main issue is you have no idea where you stand with activations. A number of times when I have had activation issues, I have re-entered a license number. I have no clue if that decrements the activations or not. And with the 12 or so lost activations over the 15 or so games/modules I have from BFC, they have never given me back any more than the one I needed at that moment.
They were supposed to give one new activation each year you owned the game. But they said they had issues with the process and I haven't heard mention of it in years. This DRM issue is the dirty little secret of BFC that I think limits the game to only people who are truly dedicated or vested in the games. Casual players are not going to go through this process. Hardcore players will say that it is worth it or the pain isn't much compared to the enjoyment. But when you have limited playing time, any hassle is too much hassle.
btw, support sent me an email saying CMBN is activated again, but no mention of getting any of my activations back. No activation given to me for MG though. I am again SOL if something happens. The support person stated they are look into a bug in 2.12 that is killing some activations.
Your right, too much hassle for a game! Who's even got the time to waste on this crap? I just had to replace a crashed hard drive and this is where Steam really shines! I'm not going to even re-install CMSF, my rebuilt system will remain Battlefront DRM free!
Quote from: SgtRock on July 08, 2014, 09:30:09 AM
Who's even got the time to waste on this crap?
Those who play nothing but Combat Mission.
If you make few changes to your machine(s), you might never have a problem. My PC environment is pretty dynamic. I have a new laptop about every 6-12 months. I also am always adding and changing things on it.
That is where the time wasting happens.
I got an update with my support ticket and they have found the bug in the 2.12 patch. They should have a new 2.12 patch very soon.
Quote from: jomni on July 08, 2014, 09:37:56 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on July 08, 2014, 09:30:09 AM
Who's even got the time to waste on this crap?
Those who play nothing but Combat Mission.
:2funny:
It appears that they found the issue is a bug in 2.12. I am wondering how this happened. I installed 2.12 before with no issues on the same machine on three months before. Someone changed something without telling anyone. That is a little worrisome on the version control side of things.
Especially if they really told Wallysworld that they're going to replace the old 2.12 with a new 2.12! I'm hoping that was just a mistype on his part.
Quote from: RyanE on July 09, 2014, 05:14:00 AM
It appears that they found the issue is a bug in 2.12. I am wondering how this happened. I installed 2.12 before with no issues on the same machine on three months before. Someone changed something without telling anyone. That is a little worrisome on the version control side of things.
They don't have control over their DRM, it's third party software, if it changes who knows what it will do with their software!!! Who knows what version of DRM in is which product?
we're all dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed ::)
Quote from: RyanE on July 09, 2014, 05:14:00 AM
It appears that they found the issue is a bug in 2.12. I am wondering how this happened. I installed 2.12 before with no issues on the same machine on three months before. Someone changed something without telling anyone. That is a little worrisome on the version control side of things.
Probably just used up one of your available installs.
I suppose at some point we may have to start contacting them and ask for permission every time we install a BF game? :buck2:
I started seeing tickets about this last week. Not a lot (I counted before posting and there are 4 that I have specially flagged with this) but certainly more than normal, for the same complaint. The symptoms were exactly what we see when someone's anti-virus software is giving a false positive. That is how I tried to "treat" it. When that didn't work, in my opinion, the next logical step was to look at the license state. "Knee jerk" reaction? I don't know, when you handle these things everyday (and I mean everyday....anyone who has heard from me on July 4th..or Christmas or Thanksgiving knows what I'm talking about) you see patterns with problems. And the quickest way to help someone is to try the option with the highest percentage chance of working. For instance, if someone has Norton anti-virus and all of a sudden their Commonwealth module disappears, 99 out of 100 times it is because Norton has quarantined it. Is it a "knee jerk" reaction to provide support along those lines or is it just the quickest way to get someone back in the game? Is it better to carry on a series of emails until your are 100% sure of the correct course of action (and to be candid, there is never a way to be 100% sure unless you're sitting in front of their computer) or to provide the quickest route for getting someone back on track?
Then, in the last day or two, I received word that a variation of the 2.12 patch had been uploaded by us in the last couple of weeks and this patch was causing the problem. I have no idea of why a new one was put up and it didn't occur to me to even ask. My understanding is that the problem lies in the installer and has nothing to do with the DRM. Regardless of the why, it is a bummer and a new version of the patch will be up soon. The tickets that I have, I have marked so that as soon as I get word that the new version is released I can let you know. Heck, as I'm typing this it occurs to me that I have the older 2.12 patch download. If anyone wants to drop me a PM, I'd be happy to set up a Dropbox and give you the file.
Regarding resetting of licenses. I have never ever ever never ever ever seen someone ask or a reset/additional license and have them been told "no". It can take a day or two (longer if there's a holiday weekend involved) but they will always get you going again. Always.
^ shouldn't have to ask tbh
Quote from: JudgeDredd on July 09, 2014, 11:04:53 AM
^ shouldn't have to ask tbh
I get that. But deciding which anti-piracy method is used is above my pay grade.
I just wanted to make sure there were no misunderstandings about not being able to ever play a game again because you've run out of actions, as a poster earlier mentioned. That's bad intel.
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 11:10:11 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on July 09, 2014, 11:04:53 AM
^ shouldn't have to ask tbh
I get that. But deciding which anti-piracy method is used is above my pay grade.
I just wanted to make sure there were no misunderstandings about not being able to ever play a game again because you've run out of actions, as a poster earlier mentioned. That's bad intel.
Fair point
So when do we get our activations back and how do we know how many we have?
Elvis, Norton has been having problems with Combat Mission games since at least CMBN. Have you guys ever tried contacting them to verify the legitimacy of your products?
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 10:56:41 AM
I started seeing tickets about this last week. Not a lot (I counted before posting and there are 4 that I have specially flagged with this) but certainly more than normal, for the same complaint. The symptoms were exactly what we see when someone's anti-virus software is giving a false positive. That is how I tried to "treat" it. When that didn't work, in my opinion, the next logical step was to look at the license state. "Knee jerk" reaction? I don't know, when you handle these things everyday (and I mean everyday....anyone who has heard from me on July 4th..or Christmas or Thanksgiving knows what I'm talking about) you see patterns with problems. And the quickest way to help someone is to try the option with the highest percentage chance of working. For instance, if someone has Norton anti-virus and all of a sudden their Commonwealth module disappears, 99 out of 100 times it is because Norton has quarantined it. Is it a "knee jerk" reaction to provide support along those lines or is it just the quickest way to get someone back in the game? Is it better to carry on a series of emails until your are 100% sure of the correct course of action (and to be candid, there is never a way to be 100% sure unless you're sitting in front of their computer) or to provide the quickest route for getting someone back on track?
Then, in the last day or two, I received word that a variation of the 2.12 patch had been uploaded by us in the last couple of weeks and this patch was causing the problem. I have no idea of why a new one was put up and it didn't occur to me to even ask. My understanding is that the problem lies in the installer and has nothing to do with the DRM. Regardless of the why, it is a bummer and a new version of the patch will be up soon. The tickets that I have, I have marked so that as soon as I get word that the new version is released I can let you know. Heck, as I'm typing this it occurs to me that I have the older 2.12 patch download. If anyone wants to drop me a PM, I'd be happy to set up a Dropbox and give you the file.
Regarding resetting of licenses. I have never ever ever never ever ever seen someone ask or a reset/additional license and have them been told "no". It can take a day or two (longer if there's a holiday weekend involved) but they will always get you going again. Always.
Here's your problem:
QuoteThen, in the last day or two, I received word that a variation of the 2.12 patch had been uploaded by us in the last couple of weeks and this patch was causing the problem.
A "variation" of a patch becomes the next patch in line. Patch 2.12 becomes 2.13, etc. Why is this such a problem for your company?
You guys need to get your shit together here, and put out a new patch, under a new number, that fixes the problem.
If you have different files flying around, not compatible with each other, or the game system, AND named the same, then you have Harpoon 3, with Herman Hun driving the ship onto the rocks.
Quote from: Ubercat on July 09, 2014, 12:34:53 PM
Elvis, Norton has been having problems with Combat Mission games since at least CMBN. Have you guys ever tried contacting them to verify the legitimacy of your products?
Yes, an encouraged players to contact them as well.
Edit:
Here is our Knowledgebase article on Norton (yes, it has it's own article):
http://www.battlefront.com/helpdesk/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=227
QuoteNorton Internet Security
Article
Out of 200 anti-virus and security engines tested against, NIS is the only software which mistakenly flags the Module.exe file within the Modules folder of your game installation as "suspicious". There is no reason for it, so we classify this as a bug in NIS.
This can happen during the installation process (you will see a MoveFail error), or after the installation is complete. When you launch the game, you will not be able to access any Module scenarios (they will be greyed out).
The solution is to move the Module.exe file from the NIS Quarantine area back into the game folder. You will also want to instruct Norton to 'ignore', 'allow' or 'unblock' (however Norton terms it) so that it does not attempt to quarantine the module executable file again.
Please also consider reporting this false positive to Norton. It will take a minute and allow Norton to adjust their whitelists and remove the false positive for other people. You can report a false positive to Norton here: https://submit.symantec.com/false_positive/
Quote from: DennisS on July 09, 2014, 12:40:54 PM
A "variation" of a patch becomes the next patch in line. Patch 2.12 becomes 2.13, etc. Why is this such a problem for your company?
You guys need to get your shit together here, and put out a new patch, under a new number, that fixes the problem.
It is not the next patch in the line. If it were it would be called 2.13 and an announcement of the changes made to the game would have been announced. But there are no changes to the game in this new build. Regarding shit being together by naming the patch correctly...that particular shit is together.
So how did it change...I thought you said it was a different file. Isn't that how version control works?
So here is the quote from you...
"Then, in the last day or two, I received word that a variation of the 2.12 patch had been uploaded by us in the last couple of weeks and this patch was causing the problem. I have no idea of why a new one was put up and it didn't occur to me to even ask. "
A variation means a new version number. Should be 2.12a. Does anyone realize or care about how much extra work it causes by doing something like this. Even the lowest level person in any SW company I have worked for manages version control like the family jewels. You guys are big enough and you have multiple programmers and support people that you have to be very careful.
If its your DRM company doing it to you, get your supplier under control. How many people out there might have the borked patch and not used it. You must track downloads, I assume. Whats going to happen over the next year is people will be reinstalling and patching with archived patches and you'll be getting help requests and pissed off customers. At a minimum, someone from BFC should put a notice up about it.
RyanE, it appears to just be a new installer for the patch. As I have said before....absolutely nothing game related or DRM related. If it were they would want all players to have it. If there was anything game related that was changed you would have heard about and what the changes are. Players are always clambering for new patches and game fixes. If BFC releases one they announce it. They don't hide it in an existing patch that the majority of players will never download because they've had it since it was first released. I'm not sure why people are interested in painting this as something that it isn't. It looks to be a new installer that was buggy. Unfortunate and inconvenient but nothing more than that.
Every company I have worked at or in would have incremented the version number for exactly the reason we are talking about...including an installer. There is a school of hard knocks out there, and this is one of them.
I am more concerned that no one at BFC really recognizes this. I hear BFC people running around all the time talking about what a small company they are and time is so important. Its basic stuff like this that kills a small SW company. The fact the support was never told a new file was going up and/or no one even thought to ask about any changes is kind of mind blowing.
It starts to explain a lot of the little quality issues sneaking through in releases.
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 02:38:47 PM
RyanE, it appears to just be a new installer for the patch. As I have said before....absolutely nothing game related or DRM related. If it were they would want all players to have it. If there was anything game related that was changed you would have heard about and what the changes are. Players are always clambering for new patches and game fixes. If BFC releases one they announce it. They don't hide it in an existing patch that the majority of players will never download because they've had it since it was first released. I'm not sure why people are interested in painting this as something that it isn't. It looks to be a new installer that was buggy. Unfortunate and inconvenient but nothing more than that.
It isn't at all about the gameplay, this "variation" of patch 2.12. "Absolutely nothing game related.."
But...it broke the effing game. That MAKES it game related.
You now have two version 2.12's out there. The ONLY way to fix this is to create 2.13, or 2.20, or version 3, or WHATEVER, and do it immediately. And advertise it heavily. And apologize for your f*ck up.
No. The only way to fix it is to attach an installer that functions properly. A 2.13 patch would cause people who have had 2.12 with a proper installer to be compelled to install 2.13.....something that they don't need and will get nothing out of.
I agree that when a proper installer is release and announcement saying something like "anyone who downloaded patch 2.12 after xxxviii date should re download the patch"
That is why you have 2.12a...I have worked for or with software companies for almost 30 years. You are not going to tell me that proper procedure is to change anything that goes out publicly and not at least add a letter...small or large companies.
Is there anyone beside a BFC employee who thinks this is the way to go about it?
It's all DRM concerns that we really shouldn't be bothered with, in the end. But we are.
Hopefully the decision makers at Battlefront eventually come around to something better or much improved over the current one. It's a sad state of affairs when even the current iteration of StarForce online-activation DRM has a more flexible system, although none of this kind goes over well with customers.
Being doubtful of whether your game will work once you patch, reinstall it, or after changing your computer hardware isn't a good thing. No matter how much a rare few surprisingly try to defend the reasoning behind such draconian system.
Having to contact BF and wait for it to be allowed is just an extra hassle that customers shouldn't be put through. I suppose their paranoia is ramped up enough that they feel justified in occasionally inconveniencing their customers with problems. It comes across as rude, to me.
I expect to have such a hassle at some point, with any BF game I buy. It has curbed my purchasing habits with BF, and this kind of DRM, especially since there are so many interesting games coming out these days and not enough time to play them.
The point isn't just the DRM. Its just plain sloppy customer service from a company that isn't just a small start up any more. They should know better.
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
No. The only way to fix it is to attach an installer that functions properly. A 2.13 patch would cause people who have had 2.12 with a proper installer to be compelled to install 2.13.....something that they don't need and will get nothing out of.
I agree that when a proper installer is release and announcement saying something like "anyone who downloaded patch 2.12 after xxxviii date should re download the patch"
Let's look at this a little closer...so by not incrementing a patch number, you will now have a portion of your base using a different configuration of your software but having the same version. How would you ever track down another issue in that patch. It would create a lot more debugging work. The installer is part of the package delivered to the customer. Any SW product manager will tell you it is close to a mortal sin to do something like that. It can really punish support staff.
I feel sorry for Elvis here...truly no good deed goes unpunished
Con
This would have ended a while ago if he didn't come in and state the the process BFC uses had no issues. The fact I stumbled around all weekend trying to play the game and lost a couple activations seems to not concern him or anyone at BFC. I would move on quickly with my activations given back and admission that they will be a little more careful with my time. Four activations for $60 at the lowest level means I probably lost $30 this weekend.
btw, no one finds a little odd all this discussion is happening here and not on BFC's forum, where I would expect BFC to want to communicate issues like this.
Quote from: RyanE on July 09, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
No. The only way to fix it is to attach an installer that functions properly. A 2.13 patch would cause people who have had 2.12 with a proper installer to be compelled to install 2.13.....something that they don't need and will get nothing out of.
I agree that when a proper installer is release and announcement saying something like "anyone who downloaded patch 2.12 after xxxviii date should re download the patch"
Let's look at this a little closer...so by not incrementing a patch number, you will now have a portion of your base using a different configuration of your software but having the same version. How would you ever track down another issue in that patch. It would create a lot more debugging work. The installer is part of the package delivered to the customer. Any SW product manager will tell you it is close to a mortal sin to do something like that. It can really punish support staff.
The patch number references the engine build. Regardless of how that build is applied to your game. Period. As far as the customer base is concerned, as much (probably more.....trust me as someone who deals with this kind of stuff every day) confusion would be caused if a 2.12a patch were released. Cries of "wait, a new patch was released and x, you and Z weren't fixed?" And "i don't understand, do I need 2.12a or not?"etc.......
I have no idea of what software companies you have worked with or dealt with but the bottom line is that this is the system BFC has been using for 15 years. If they used a different system that would not have changed the problem that you have experienced in any way. I have offered to set up a Dropbox for anyone who would like to have a copy of my patch with the previous installer. I know that may sound like "sloppy customer service" but I'm only trying to help.
If you want to argue how they should conduct their build naming, start a thread on their forum. The people that make those calls may respond. All of them have very long histories working with other companies for game development. Perhaps they can give you more insight into the process. I just thought I would chime in and give the 411.....but as Con points out............
Quote from: Elvis on July 09, 2014, 11:29:34 PM
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If you want to argue how they should conduct their build naming, start a thread on their forum. The people that make those calls may respond. All of them have very long histories working with other companies for game development. Perhaps they can give you more insight into the process. I just thought I would chime in and give the 411.....but as Con points out............
Knowing how vociferous that place is - I would walk away NOW RyanE :P