If there's one game that's been at the top of my backlog for years, it's Forge of Freedom. I read the manual at some point, dabbled with some campaigns, but never really got anything going.
With all the threads about Ageod's Civil War II, Ultimate General, etc. etc., I'm itchin' to get into some War Between the States action.
Fellow grogheads: is FoF still your 'go to' Civil War game?
Some things intrigue me about the Ageod game but there are a few things that always keep me away from Ageod titles (with the great exception of WWI Gold). The map and unit art excepted, I truly hate the bland UI (plus the cities with the little waving flags drive me crazy). Even more, I hate Ageod's 'hands off' combat system. So I'm disinclined to dive in on Civil War II, despite some of the glowing comments I read from knowledgeable folks around here.
So what do you think? Does FoF (released in 2006!!) still have mileage left in it? Or am I better off biting the bullet and trying to get over my Ageod aversion?
I am big civil war fan but could never get I to this game. Others thought it was great so maybe just me:)
Forge of freedom is the only civil war strategy game that I have done multiple campaign play throughs. It's the HOI of civil war, by that I mean it's the best for what if history or alternative path history. The battle system is just simple hex combat, but it works. The devs are developing the brother against brother game at matrix, which sounds like FOF with no strategy layer but a more in depth tactical game. I would have rather them kept the strategy layer and just redid the tactical game, but a FOF 2 might still be made after release of brother against brother.
I really liked the game and its depth. What had me finally delete the game from my hard drive was the fixed low resolution window. If Matrix would update this game to widescreen, it would be great.
Until ACW2 came out, FoF was my go-to grand strategy Civil War game. There is a wide range of complexity options allowing you to pick and choose what you want the ai to control and the level of micro-management that suits your style of play. Battles can be fought 3 different ways, each one with an increase in complexity and time required to resolve.
It's a great game. I was highly addicted to it after its release.
My only complaints are the screen resolution, and the tactical battles.
While the tactical layer is fun, I really felt it wouldn't have been hard to put an Age of Rifles/CWG 2 style approach rather than the system they chose to use. If they'd gone that route, I don't think I'd ever take the game off my hard drive.
I must have been in the minority, maybe I need to try again...just don't recall it being as fun as being described:(
FoF's outdated screen resolution doesn't bother me so much. Yes the UI shows its age and could use updating, but overall I don't find it an obstacle to enjoying the game. It still seems a damn sight better -- more flavor and style -- than the Ageod interface. (The UI of ACW the Blue and the Gray has a ton more character and visual interest -- why Ageod eliminated those touches in the sequel is beyond me).
The fact that Brother Against Brother will not have a strategic layer makes me sad. I hope a true Forge of Freedom 2 will still be realized at some point.
I'd be interested to hear more about why folks find Ageod's ACW2 superior to FoF. The inability to have any tactical input into how combat plays out in Ageod games is just such a deal breaker for me.
ACW2, which I now enjoy over FoF, does have a new feature where you can set up up armies into flanks and decide an overall strategy before the battle starts. The ACW2 map is much larger and does a better job displaying the critical areas, i.e. the Shenandoah Valley. The UI is very similar to earlier Ageod games.
Good to know, Rayfer. I may have to give ACW2 a shot. I've been playing FoF the last few nights and, while there much I love about the game's depth and overall concept, the low-res UI is bugging me more than I thought it would.
Give a look at the matrix FOF forums, might be a work around for the screen res. Maybe an edit of some text files to force the screen res.
FoF stays on my hard drive always. I absolutely love the tactical battles and the strategic game isn't bad either. There are a ton of options you can set. I also love ACW2. Highly recommend both if you like ACW games.
FoF runs in full screen for me (1920x1080) and I think it looks great. But graphics aren't that important to me if a game is good.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 08, 2014, 05:45:03 PM
I must have been in the minority, maybe I need to try again...just don't recall it being as fun as being described:(
I am with you Grim Reaper. I never really got into this game, and I do consider the AGEOD's American Civil War to be a greatly superior experience, both in single and multi-player.
I never understood the supply system in FOF, and I usually found it very difficult to understand why things were happening (or not happening) at the strategic/operational level. FOF has a tactical layer, but I found there was very little point to the tactical layer when the AI was so poor (a hallmark of the "series" I do remember that the AI in Crown of Glory wasn't precisely the strongest ever). My major gripe with the tactical layer, nevertheless, was the activation system in place: I'd have expected it to allow me to activate Divisions or Corps, rather than single regiments/brigades (if I recall correctly). It was kind of difficult to coordinate forces that historically usually acted in a concerted fashion.
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 10, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 08, 2014, 05:45:03 PM
I must have been in the minority, maybe I need to try again...just don't recall it being as fun as being described:(
I am with you Grim Reaper. I never really got into this game, and I do consider the AGEOD's American Civil War to be a greatly superior experience, both in single and multi-player.
I never understood the supply system in FOF, and I usually found it very difficult to understand why things were happening (or not happening) at the strategic/operational level. FOF has a tactical layer, but I found there was very little point to the tactical layer when the AI was so poor (a hallmark of the "series" I do remember that the AI in Crown of Glory wasn't precisely the strongest ever). My major gripe with the tactical layer, nevertheless, was the activation system in place: I'd have expected it to allow me to activate Divisions or Corps, rather than single regiments/brigades (if I recall correctly). It was kind of difficult to coordinate forces that historically usually acted in a concerted fashion.
Which was strange for me since I thought I would love it.....I remember waiting for the release sitting by my computer with huge anticipation...downloaded and was like...hmmm....that's it?
I really thought it was going to be the definitive CW game for me, just something about the game mechanics did not click with me....
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 10, 2014, 08:21:48 PM
Which was strange for me since I thought I would love it.....I remember waiting for the release sitting by my computer with huge anticipation...downloaded and was like...hmmm....that's it?
I really thought it was going to be the definitive CW game for me, just something about the game mechanics did not click with me....
I need also to say that there were quite a few patches, but I must admit I never went back to it after summer of 2007. I was playing AGEOD's by then :)
Damn! You guys are leaving me no recourse but to buy ACW2 and compare for myself.
...at least it's still on sale on the Matrix site at the moment ...
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 10, 2014, 09:35:04 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 10, 2014, 08:21:48 PM
Which was strange for me since I thought I would love it.....I remember waiting for the release sitting by my computer with huge anticipation...downloaded and was like...hmmm....that's it?
I really thought it was going to be the definitive CW game for me, just something about the game mechanics did not click with me....
I need also to say that there were quite a few patches, but I must admit I never went back to it after summer of 2007. I was playing AGEOD's by then :)
Seems that my concerns regarding the AI were addressed to some degree in the 2009 patch, according to a poster on Matrix's boards
Quote
I have to say that I really like the tweaks to the AI in detailed combat. So far have found it much less predictable and see far fewer ineffective, piecemeal attacks and futile unsupported charges.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2099946
My problem wasn't with the detailed combat since I auto resolved battles...didn't care much for the strategic layer. If I recall correctly, it used some kind of container system to organize armies which I couldn't grasp.
Just to be clear, I have also had issues with acw2 complexity:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 10, 2014, 09:49:58 PM
Just to be clear, I have also had issues with acw2 complexity :)
My issues with AACW2 in particular are about how to make sense out of the turn resolution (similar to the problem I had in FOF, but the UI is friendlier and more informative in both AACW and AACW2). To be honest, I find very surprising that the lessons on how to visualize WEGO turn resolution from the Atomic Games operational war games - results shown on the map as clickable icons, etc. - have been ignored for the past 20 years. That, and having the ability to replay the WEGO turn resolution 'impulse by impulse'. It is hard to figure out what's the reason for two events happening - and see if they're somehow related - when one can't easily make sense of which one came first.
Quote from: sandman2575 on July 10, 2014, 09:44:41 PM
Damn! You guys are leaving me no recourse but to buy ACW2 and compare for myself.
...at least it's still on sale on the Matrix site at the moment ...
The correct solution. Those other two guys seem awfully grumpy concerning FoF. :P
Quote from: bbmike on July 11, 2014, 07:07:54 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on July 10, 2014, 09:44:41 PM
Damn! You guys are leaving me no recourse but to buy ACW2 and compare for myself.
...at least it's still on sale on the Matrix site at the moment ...
The correct solution. Those other two guys seem awfully grumpy concerning FoF. :P
Nope, not grumpy at all....just didn't enjoy it myself, but sure others did. Even with acw2 it isn't necessarily the game I hoped for. Both seemed to make things overly complex than I had hoped for this type of game.
As mentioned, best to try both to make your own personal decision.
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general). I tried playing AGEOD's American Civil War - The Blue and the Gray (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/343/details/American.Civil.War..The.Blue.and.the.Gray) as well as a number of their other games, but the AGEOD engine just doesn't click with me.
BBmike...
So I decided to reinstall and give another go...quick question, is there any way to zoom in on the map? I don't mind the way the map looks in the low res, but couldn't find a way where I could scroll in and zoom in or out to see the whole map. I know the military groups screen exists where you can see a big map, but not detailed enough.
After reinstalling, one thing I quickly remembered which I really liked was how it had a battle history screen where it showed in order all the battles that happened...kind of a history. Really did like that.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 11, 2014, 09:28:21 AM
BBmike...
So I decided to reinstall and give another go...quick question, is there any way to zoom in on the map? I don't mind the way the map looks in the low res, but couldn't find a way where I could scroll in and zoom in or out to see the whole map. I know the military groups screen exists where you can see a big map, but not detailed enough.
After reinstalling, one thing I quickly remembered which I really liked was how it had a battle history screen where it showed in order all the battles that happened...kind of a history. Really did like that.
Holding down the 'CTRL' key and using the mouse wheel should zoom the map in and out.
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general).
That would be nice!
Quote from: bbmike on July 11, 2014, 09:31:17 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 11, 2014, 09:28:21 AM
BBmike...
So I decided to reinstall and give another go...quick question, is there any way to zoom in on the map? I don't mind the way the map looks in the low res, but couldn't find a way where I could scroll in and zoom in or out to see the whole map. I know the military groups screen exists where you can see a big map, but not detailed enough.
After reinstalling, one thing I quickly remembered which I really liked was how it had a battle history screen where it showed in order all the battles that happened...kind of a history. Really did like that.
Holding down the 'CTRL' key and using the mouse wheel should zoom the map in and out.
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general).
That would be nice!
Thank you, that worked.....when you really do scroll out though, my screen gets real choppy, but still serviceable for now..
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general). I tried playing AGEOD's American Civil War - The Blue and the Gray (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/343/details/American.Civil.War..The.Blue.and.the.Gray) as well as a number of their other games, but the AGEOD engine just doesn't click with me.
CWG2 is one game I never had the chance to play...does it hold up today and even available nowadays? Is it playable on modern computers?
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general). I tried playing AGEOD's American Civil War - The Blue and the Gray (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/343/details/American.Civil.War..The.Blue.and.the.Gray) as well as a number of their other games, but the AGEOD engine just doesn't click with me.
Same here!
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 11, 2014, 09:36:39 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general). I tried playing AGEOD's American Civil War - The Blue and the Gray (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/343/details/American.Civil.War..The.Blue.and.the.Gray) as well as a number of their other games, but the AGEOD engine just doesn't click with me.
CWG2 is one game I never had the chance to play...does it hold up today and even available nowadays? Is it playable on modern computers?
It's playable on Windows 7 and it's still the best game of the Civil War for me. I haven't installed it on my latest desktop but have it on my Windows XP deskop and on my netbook (windows 7).
Quote from: Anguille on July 11, 2014, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 11, 2014, 09:36:39 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on July 11, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
I bought Forge of Freedom (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865) about the same time I purchased Gary Grigsby's War Between The States (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby%27s.War.Between.The.States). I enjoyed both of them but when I got a new PC, they didn't get installed on its hard drive.
What I'm hoping for is an updated Civil War Generals 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/grant-lee-sherman-civil-war-2-generals), or even an updated Robert E. Lee: Civil War General (http://www.mobygames.com/game/robert-e-lee-civil-war-general). I tried playing AGEOD's American Civil War - The Blue and the Gray (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/343/details/American.Civil.War..The.Blue.and.the.Gray) as well as a number of their other games, but the AGEOD engine just doesn't click with me.
CWG2 is one game I never had the chance to play...does it hold up today and even available nowadays? Is it playable on modern computers?
It's playable on Windows 7 and it's still the best game of the Civil War for me. I haven't installed it on my latest desktop but have it on my Windows XP deskop and on my netbook (windows 7).
I'll have to try it...thanks.
Wow. After spending time learning the preliminary ropes with ACW2, it just doesn't even seem like a contest. FoF really pales in comparison, and I can see why ACW2 is the 'go to' Civil War grand strategy game of the moment.
I am really, really impressed by how much Ageod has improved the AGE engine. My previous experience had been with Napoleon's Campaigns, which always felt like a 'great in theory, lousy in practice' game. The frustrations always outweighed the positives. ACW2 just feels like a much more refined and well-thought-out design, esp. with the UI.
The 'hands off' combat still doesn't thrill me, but the battle outcomes are now much more decipherable than they were in NCP.
Glad I took the plunge while it was still on sale. I'll have to pick up Alea Jacta Est as well at some point, given how good ACW2 is...
If I really loved FoF but have never played an AGEOD game what kind of learning curve am I looking at for CWII?
Quote from: TheCommandTent on July 12, 2014, 11:23:18 AM
If I really loved FoF but have never played an AGEOD game what kind of learning curve am I looking at for CWII?
Pretty big but worth the effort. I watched a bunch of Let's Play and tutorial videos. I also played one of the small, quick scenarios in BoA2 over and over to learn more of the basics.
Getting comfortable with the Ageod UI takes a little time, but I have to say, with CW2, they've really streamlined things and made it relatively user-friendly. Tons of tool-tips. Info. has been made very accessible.
If you're looking for a new Civil War title, CommandTent, you won't be sorry with CW2, fairly steep learning curve and all. I'm much more impressed with the game than I thought I would be, not having esp. loved Ageod games in the past.
Hello. I'm new to this forum, though quite a few of you will know me from the Matrix forum, among others, since I am one of FOF's developers. I did a keyword search to see what the Grogheads are saying about WCS's games, and found this thread, and thought I'd say a thing or two.
First, Eric and I, the two main developers of FOF, both would love to do a FOF2, and talk about it on occasion, but that would still be a few years away, since our primary commitments must be to our forthcoming tactical game "Brother Against Brother," a secret project that's quite different from anything we've done so far, and another traditional wargame we're thinking of getting to work on later in the year. So if some of you now prefer Ageod's second stab at the Civil War you should go with that -- but know that *if* WCS decides to revisit FOF, we will make something that will be good enough to win you back. (And yes, that's very tame trash talk aimed at Ageod.)
Second, someone above speculated about whether FOF's resolution can be changed. It cannot be. Eric, our programmer, once explained to me the technical issues, and while I can't remember them, I can tell you that it none of you can do it by modding some file, while Eric would have to devote months to reworking the code. And if he's doing that, he might as well just write a FOF2 (see above). Our hope is that people will see that FOF has more than enough going on that it is worth playing even with the graphics and resolution a bit dated by now.
My solution for dealing with the resolution of older matrix titles was to load everything into a virtual machine running windows. Not the best outcome, but at least it is running in a window and I can have a manual open or be doing something else on the system.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snitselaar.org%2Fscreenshots%2Fcog-vm-small.png&hash=d6aac8d5490bfc781add99098f0ed25806eb7a9a)
Any sound or controller problems with certain games?
Quote from: vyshka on March 07, 2015, 08:15:49 PM
My solution for dealing with the resolution of older matrix titles was to load everything into a virtual machine running windows. Not the best outcome, but at least it is running in a window and I can have a manual open or be doing something else on the system.
Your desktop is a fucking mess.
lol
Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 07, 2015, 09:20:16 PM
Quote from: vyshka on March 07, 2015, 08:15:49 PM
My solution for dealing with the resolution of older matrix titles was to load everything into a virtual machine running windows. Not the best outcome, but at least it is running in a window and I can have a manual open or be doing something else on the system.
Your desktop is a fucking mess.
Yeah it is. The only thing I ever boot into Windows for is gaming, and most of that is through Steam, Origin, or the Blizzard interface. Most of the time I am sitting in Linux with i3wm running doing work. But I did my spring cleaning now, so no more icons. :)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 07, 2015, 09:20:16 PM
Quote from: vyshka on March 07, 2015, 08:15:49 PM
My solution for dealing with the resolution of older matrix titles was to load everything into a virtual machine running windows. Not the best outcome, but at least it is running in a window and I can have a manual open or be doing something else on the system.
Your desktop is a fucking mess.
**spits tea over the kid**
Hilarious!! Just the bluntness of it!! :2funny: :2funny: O0 :2funny: :2funny:
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 07, 2015, 08:55:44 PM
Any sound or controller problems with certain games?
I haven't run into any yet, but I haven't done much besides matrix titles and tiller titles on there.
All hail Gil?
ALL HAIL GIL! ALL HAIL GIL! 8)
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 10, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 08, 2014, 05:45:03 PM
I must have been in the minority, maybe I need to try again...just don't recall it being as fun as being described:(
I am with you Grim Reaper. I never really got into this game, and I do consider the AGEOD's American Civil War to be a greatly superior experience, both in single and multi-player.
I never understood the supply system in FOF, and I usually found it very difficult to understand why things were happening (or not happening) at the strategic/operational level. FOF has a tactical layer, but I found there was very little point to the tactical layer when the AI was so poor (a hallmark of the "series" I do remember that the AI in Crown of Glory wasn't precisely the strongest ever). My major gripe with the tactical layer, nevertheless, was the activation system in place: I'd have expected it to allow me to activate Divisions or Corps, rather than single regiments/brigades (if I recall correctly). It was kind of difficult to coordinate forces that historically usually acted in a concerted fashion.
This is pretty much what I remember about this game as well, but it may be that the American Civil War just isn't that interesting. I mean I've tried just about every Civil War game there is and (except for board games about Gettysburg), never had much fun with them.
Maybe something more mystical with trains and Indians would be more my speed.
Picked up FoF during the holiday sale over at Matrix/Slitherine. This is the second time I bought this game directly from Matrix. (Can't find my key from the first time I purchased the game)
The fact that I was willing to pay money again for a game that is so old should tell you something. I absolutely love this game. The control over absolutely everything in this game a strategy control freak could want is amazing. From managing infrastructure, building improvements in cities, research and development, to upgrading brigade firearms by manufacturing them or purchasing them from overseas is addictive. Never mind that the larger tactical battles can take over an hour to complete.
Sure there are some flaws with this game but at this point they will probably not be addressed. It is best to just accept this game for what it is because if you're willing to overlook the bad with this game I assure you the good far outweighs the flaws. If I could make my own games the way I want them to be made FoF is pretty close to that dream.
This was my go-to American Civil War game until Ageod's ACW2 came out, which in my humble opinion is the far better of the two. But FoF is still a good, solid game.
Still my favorite Civil War game. I'm one of the rare ones that like the tactical battles. I also have Brother Against Brother and need to get back to it at some point.
I loved the game. Really loved the game. But graphically, it just makes my eyes bleed now. A shame - it's another great game that's left to float in the reservoir of games that need an upgrade.
Still my go to ACW game. Love the tactical battles. I look forward to the improvements a 're-make' would introduce.
^ + 100!