http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/18/the-flare-path-john-tiller-interview/#more-220775
A good read. Thanks for the link.
Quote from: Capn Darwin on July 18, 2014, 11:11:34 AM
A good read. Thanks for the link.
+1 Good stuff. Thanks.
Nice article. Thanks!
I love Tiller designed games, but they are increasingly becoming more and more niche. I think this is truly due to the UI and graphics. Comparing a Tiller game to some of the newer hex and counter style games published by Slitherine/Matrix; it's just sad to see that Tiller and crew have not jumped to a newer engine. I've also never bought the "small" developer line. Vic designs some beautiful looking games and he is certainly a small developer too.
Quote from: Bison on July 19, 2014, 11:08:13 PM
I love Tiller designed games, but they are increasingly becoming more and more niche. I think this is truly due to the UI and graphics. Comparing a Tiller game to some of the newer hex and counter style games published by Slitherine/Matrix; it's just sad to see that Tiller and crew have not jumped to a newer engine. I've also never bought the "small" developer line. Vic designs some beautiful looking games and he is certainly a small developer too.
Just adding the map and counter mods for the Panzer & Modern Campaigns series has made a huge difference in my enjoyment of them. Before, they looked like big eyesores with overly bright and saturated colors everywhere. Now it's much easier on the eyes. :smitten:
Jison's MapMod and VolcanoMan graphics ...
They should pay these guys a bit and add them by default.
I've since started using VolcanoMan's modded unit info box backgrounds that contain uniform pics by nation instead of Jison's flag backgrounds as shown in this shot. You can see the massive difference from vanilla either way.(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2F9fmk8y.jpg&hash=fcc684ba2b18528a4474b5da4018bc17cbcb11c9)
Since Tiller upgrades all his games to the same level, going back about 15 years now and including maybe (I'm just guessing) 40 or 50 games, upgrading the graphics would be a pretty big job. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but unless he changed his policy and left the previous games behind, it would be a lot of work.
Quote from: Rizik6 on July 20, 2014, 02:47:51 AM
Since Tiller upgrades all his games to the same level, going back about 15 years now and including maybe (I'm just guessing) 40 or 50 games, upgrading the graphics would be a pretty big job. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but unless he changed his policy and left the previous games behind, it would be a lot of work.
If that was his only reason for not becoming modern, then he should leave the old games behind:). Certainly sounded like he was more claiming costs to improve graphics was his main block. It's hard to know if his model works or not since I don't think I have ever seen any published reports on his game sales. It must at least to his liking or you think he would take a different approach.
I know people say his ai is no good but it is good enough to provide a decent experience to a bad commander like myself and like the area he simulates, just find it difficult to enjoy when you can barely make out the unit types.
Quote from: Rizik6 on July 20, 2014, 02:47:51 AM
Since Tiller upgrades all his games to the same level, going back about 15 years now and including maybe (I'm just guessing) 40 or 50 games, upgrading the graphics would be a pretty big job. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but unless he changed his policy and left the previous games behind, it would be a lot of work.
Tiller was talking about not making something with 3D graphics in that interview. We dont' need 3D graphics. Hell, I think it's overrated in some genres. Just better looking 2D art, like those in the mods shown above. We can get those for free right now, so it's all good.
I would just think that they'd
want to improve their default 2D art to this level in this day and age. They've certainly made some attempt with their latest titles, but there is still much room to improve.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 20, 2014, 08:35:03 AM
Quote from: Rizik6 on July 20, 2014, 02:47:51 AM
Since Tiller upgrades all his games to the same level, going back about 15 years now and including maybe (I'm just guessing) 40 or 50 games, upgrading the graphics would be a pretty big job. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but unless he changed his policy and left the previous games behind, it would be a lot of work.
Tiller was talking about not making something with 3D graphics in that interview. We dont' need 3D graphics. Hell, I think it's overrated in some genres. Just better looking 2D art, like those in the mods shown above. We can get those for free right now, so it's all good.
I would just think that they'd want to improve their default 2D art to this level in this day and age. They've certainly made some attempt with their latest titles, but there is still much room to improve.
+1...not looking for fancy 3D stuff, just looking for readable and improved 2D graphics.....I would own a lot more of these games IF they had this simple improvement.....
I want to know more about the Panzer Battles games he's working on. I'm very interested in the details of the scale and how it will affect gameplay. Has anyone gotten the first one, Battles of Kursk - Southern Flank (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html), yet? how is it?
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 20, 2014, 08:59:04 AM
I want to know more about the Panzer Battles games he's working on. I'm very interested in the details of the scale and how it will affect gameplay. Has anyone gotten the first one, Battles of Kursk - Southern Flank (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html), yet? how is it?
I've not picked up anything from the new store due to the DRM. There are still plenty of the older titles I can get from the HPS Sims site that doesn't require online activation.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 20, 2014, 08:59:04 AM
I want to know more about the Panzer Battles games he's working on. I'm very interested in the details of the scale and how it will affect gameplay. Has anyone gotten the first one, Battles of Kursk - Southern Flank (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html), yet? how is it?
There's some good discussion here... http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=280 (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=280)
Some of the discussions about the formulas are over my head but there's other useful stuff there.
Hard to disagree about the graphics discussion but Jison's mods are really nice and add a lot. The thing about JT's stuff is that his games cover a lot of battles/campaigns that can't be found or is hard to find elsewhere. I still think the First World Campaign France '14 is the best of the bunch although the modern battles are fun to play.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 20, 2014, 08:59:04 AM
I want to know more about the Panzer Battles games he's working on. I'm very interested in the details of the scale and how it will affect gameplay. Has anyone gotten the first one, Battles of Kursk - Southern Flank (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html), yet? how is it?
I have it and have played it a fair amount. It's an interesting intersection between Squad Battles and Panzer Campaigns. Graphically, it certainly is better "out of the box" than the PzC games. I honestly like the older Talonsoft Campaign Series better than Kursk - Southern Front, however. At least some of that is due to the diversity of scenarios available for JTCS and the fact that Kursk is not my favorite battle to game. Trying to reduce Soviet bunkers and minefields turn after turn is just a grinding slog.
To be fair, I really haven't tried any of the scenarios that are set later in the battle when things became more maneuver oriented.
Tiller is also converting all of the PzC maps to the same map graphics used in Panzer Battles and in the mobile apps. These are definitely better than the original maps. Unfortunately this also means that Jison's MapMod doesn't work with the newer games at all. I'm hoping that Jison comes out with a version for the JTS titles, but until he does if you want to use MapMod stick with the HPS versions.
Judging by the activity on sites like The Blitz and the NWC, I don't agree that these games are any more niche than they've always been. Which isn't to say that they aren't niche - they are, just like games from SSG and any other hex-based complex, chit shuffler is. I played a relatively small Napoleonic engagement last week, lasting for about 40 turns, and it probably took me something like 8-10 hours. I'm kicking off a PBEM game with someone that lasts around 50 turns, and I expect we'll be at that for at least three weeks or so. These just aren't casual games. You have to be really interested in the subject matter to even bother with them, I think.
But I have to agree with Nef - if you apply the various mods that are out there from modders like Volcano Man, Jison, and Philippe (http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?111328-A-complete-list-of-the-links-to-Philippe-s-Napoleonic-mods) you can address the graphical issues and are left with some very deep games. In the past couple of years I've gone from being fairly put off by these to spending maybe half my gaming time with them.
Quote from: panzerde on July 20, 2014, 11:11:42 AM
But I have to agree with Nef - if you apply the various mods that are out there from modders like Volcano Man, Jison, and Philippe (http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?111328-A-complete-list-of-the-links-to-Philippe-s-Napoleonic-mods) you can address the graphical issues and are left with some very deep games. In the past couple of years I've gone from being fairly put off by these to spending maybe half my gaming time with them.
Same.
After using the graphical mods for the series, it's like all new non-retina-burning games. It has surprised me, how much more I can enjoy them now.
Sad to hear that the latest ones aren't compatible with those great mods. Perhaps someone will address that in the future, although the newer graphics are a step in the right direction; better than the old stuff.
Every time I notice this thread title I think, "Oh no! JT died!" and then I go "Oh yeah, RPS, not RIP."
I just picked up Squad Battles: Modern War and Modern Campaigns: Danube 85.
Both enjoyable, but extremely difficult. I've played the tutorial mission for SB:MW about 20 times and have only been able to pull off a draw.
Both are also a little dated in the graphics department, but there are a few nice map mods that I picked up.
SB:MW is not as polished as Lock n Load, but very similar. Haven't played much, and kind of upset with no campaign.
Just curious, what are folks opinions on Modern Campaigns against Flashpoint Campaigns?
Flashpoint Campaigns and Squad Battles Modern War are at 2 different scales. Hex scale in FPCRS is more operational at 500 meters and SBMW is tactical at 50 meters. FPCRS is wego and SBMW is turn based.
Both are very good games. I don't see them competing but rather complimenting one another.
Hi All,
I'm the project lead for John Tiller's Panzer Battle's; Kursk.
I just want to clarify that the various graphics mods work with the later games. Jison has provide Map Mods right up to latest Panzer Campaign's release; Moscow '42 (also one of mine). For Kursk all the art files are fully modifiable and the map is done on the same basis as Squad Battles so any map mod from that series can be used if desired.
We believe (hopefully) we have buried the grumbles around graphics with the release of Panzer Battles, but if not you can fully mod them. We included three different counter sets so that players could either use the style they preferred or have extras slots for mods they wanted to add.
If you want some examples of the graphics and want to learn more about the development of the game there is a great thread her;
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=65518 (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=65518)
All our design notes, visual orders of battle, manuals & game maps are available for free from this page on John Tillers site under the file preview section. The visual order of battle has good examples of the new unit graphics as well as the depth that we have built the formations to.
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html)
Panzerde, go and play a later scenario, anything from July 8th is in much more open terrain.
Finally, we are making good progress with future titles in this game series but welcome any feedback.
David
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 20, 2014, 09:50:08 PM
I just picked up Squad Battles: Modern War and Modern Campaigns: Danube 85.
Both enjoyable, but extremely difficult. I've played the tutorial mission for SB:MW about 20 times and have only been able to pull off a draw.
Both are also a little dated in the graphics department, but there are a few nice map mods that I picked up.
SB:MW is not as polished as Lock n Load, but very similar. Haven't played much, and kind of upset with no campaign.
Just curious, what are folks opinions on Modern Campaigns against Flashpoint Campaigns?
Squad Battles MW Boot Camp is really hard. Move on and play the other scenarios.
Graphics not so good but I'm easy to please.
There is a campaign. But it works differently. You play a single leader that you need to keep alive through a series of linked scenarios. Scoring is different from regular scenarios. Objectives and casualties do not count. Winning or losing does not count. What counts is to keep your leader alive as long as possible. But that is only half of it. Points are awarded to your leader as he rallies troops, gets shot at, or engages in combat. So no use putting him behind the lines as you won't be earning points. You have to risk his life which is counter to the survival objective.
Squad battles is an excellent series. It's frankly the best vs the AI of all of the Tiller game series.
The problem with the Tiller UI and graphics is that it does not draw in new fans. In fact I'd argue the opposite, it turns new wargamers and potential customers off. Somewhere around here I started a thread discussing hex and counter wargames and compared the counters, maps, ect...when you start to look at how some of the various game designs compare visually; it's a pretty stark comparison.
Anyway I love Tiller games and have bought them for over a decade and a half, but I get less excited with each new release.
Quote from: Bison on July 21, 2014, 08:56:12 AM
Squad battles is an excellent series. It's frankly the best vs the AI of all of the Tiller game series.
The problem with the Tiller UI and graphics is that it does not draw in new fans. In fact I'd argue the opposite, it turns new wargamers and potential customers off. Somewhere around here I started a thread discussing hex and counter wargames and compared the counters, maps, ect...when you start to look at how some of the various game designs compare visually; it's a pretty stark comparison.
Anyway I love Tiller games and have bought them for over a decade and a half, but I get less excited with each new release.
I agree Bison, it turns off potential new fans!
Strela, I will try some of the later scenarios. I do like the engine, and the supplemental material you guys put together is simply amazing. The unit icons are stellar - simply the best I've seen in any Tiller game.
As for MapMod, I'm running into issues with JTS Minsk and a friend of mine is seeing the same thing with JTS Danube Front. MapMod causes all kinds of graphical artifacts on titles that have the new map assets that resemble the maps in Kursk - Southern Front. So yes, while Jison has modded everything in PzC and MC released to date, it looks like recent JTS map changes are causing issues. I remember reading on a forum the Jison was aware of this, but I don't have a link handy.
I'm very hopeful that he makes versions that work with the newer JTS versions of the games. I do like the new style maps quite a bit but I like the MapMod maps too. If there's a trick I'm missing in using these with the JTS versions of these games please let me know so I can work around the issue!
Quote from: z1812 on July 20, 2014, 11:36:18 PM
Flashpoint Campaigns and Squad Battles Modern War are at 2 different scales. Hex scale in FPCRS is more operational at 500 meters and SBMW is tactical at 50 meters. FPCRS is wego and SBMW is turn based.
Both are very good games. I don't see them competing but rather complimenting one another.
I think he was talking about comparing Op Flashpoint to Modern Campaigns, not SB Modern Wars
Quote from: z1812 on July 20, 2014, 11:36:18 PM
Flashpoint Campaigns and Squad Battles Modern War are at 2 different scales. Hex scale in FPCRS is more operational at 500 meters and SBMW is tactical at 50 meters. FPCRS is wego and SBMW is turn based.
Both are very good games. I don't see them competing but rather complimenting one another.
I said Modern Campaigns, not squad battles
Quote from: panzerde on July 21, 2014, 03:21:23 PM
Strela, I will try some of the later scenarios. I do like the engine, and the supplemental material you guys put together is simply amazing. The unit icons are stellar - simply the best I've seen in any Tiller game.
As for MapMod, I'm running into issues with JTS Minsk and a friend of mine is seeing the same thing with JTS Danube Front. MapMod causes all kinds of graphical artifacts on titles that have the new map assets that resemble the maps in Kursk - Southern Front. So yes, while Jison has modded everything in PzC and MC released to date, it looks like recent JTS map changes are causing issues. I remember reading on a forum the Jison was aware of this, but I don't have a link handy.
I'm very hopeful that he makes versions that work with the newer JTS versions of the games. I do like the new style maps quite a bit but I like the MapMod maps too. If there's a trick I'm missing in using these with the JTS versions of these games please let me know so I can work around the issue!
Look at the files for MapMod - the graphics don't line up to the original set, and the Hexsides file is completely off center. That's the problem.
I went in and manually edited the MapMod files to fix it, and it looks much better.
Quote from: Strela on July 21, 2014, 01:25:55 AM
Hi All,
I'm the project lead for John Tiller's Panzer Battle's; Kursk.
I just want to clarify that the various graphics mods work with the later games. Jison has provide Map Mods right up to latest Panzer Campaign's release; Moscow '42 (also one of mine). For Kursk all the art files are fully modifiable and the map is done on the same basis as Squad Battles so any map mod from that series can be used if desired.
We believe (hopefully) we have buried the grumbles around graphics with the release of Panzer Battles, but if not you can fully mod them. We included three different counter sets so that players could either use the style they preferred or have extras slots for mods they wanted to add.
If you want some examples of the graphics and want to learn more about the development of the game there is a great thread her;
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=65518 (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=65518)
All our design notes, visual orders of battle, manuals & game maps are available for free from this page on John Tillers site under the file preview section. The visual order of battle has good examples of the new unit graphics as well as the depth that we have built the formations to.
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html)
Panzerde, go and play a later scenario, anything from July 8th is in much more open terrain.
Finally, we are making good progress with future titles in this game series but welcome any feedback.
David
Some harsh criticism: I think Mark Walkers team is miles ahead with the Lock n Load series, graphically speaking. Even Panzer Campaign graphics are looking a bit rough around the edges. Sorry if that's harsh to hear.
The first wargaming Dev to make a visually appealing game - to more than just the same crowd - will draw in a massive player base.
QuoteThe problem with the Tiller UI and graphics is that it does not draw in new fans. In fact I'd argue the opposite, it turns new wargamers and potential customers off. Somewhere around here I started a thread discussing hex and counter wargames and compared the counters, maps, ect...when you start to look at how some of the various game designs compare visually; it's a pretty stark comparison.
Meh. I play Squad Battles a lot, PBEM and solo. I stopped playing Lock and Load because it is very gamey and puzzle like. Gameplay > Graphics.
Quote from: jomni on July 21, 2014, 09:25:31 PM
Meh. I play Squad Battles a lot, PBEM and solo. I stopped playing Lock and Load because it is very gamey and puzzle like. Gameplay > Graphics.
I said graphically speaking.
Surprising as it may be, I believe in the co-existance of graphics and gameplay. One day we will have a game that nails both.
Of course a game that has both will surely win.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 21, 2014, 09:18:21 PM
Some harsh criticism: I think Mark Walkers team is miles ahead with the Lock n Load series, graphically speaking. Even Panzer Campaign graphics are looking a bit rough around the edges. Sorry if that's harsh to hear.
Hi,
There is no issue with harsh criticism. I do want to check that you looked at the Panzer Battles rather than the Panzer Campaign graphics for your comparison though?
As far as Lock n Load, I agree Mark and team have some great artwork. His is drawn where as we have used colourized photos. The other variance is that he has done head shots only vs our 'head to breast' approach. What we have for Panzer Battles is every bit as good as the Volcanoman Mods for example, but not necessarily at Lock n Load level.
We will keep tweaking the art to try and improve.
As a final aside, Jison is now starting to do some official map work for Tiller so expect that to become more the norm.
David
Quote from: Strela on July 21, 2014, 10:03:09 PM
As a final aside, Jison is now starting to do some official map work for Tiller so expect that to become more the norm.
That's good news.
Quote from: Strela on July 21, 2014, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 21, 2014, 09:18:21 PM
Some harsh criticism: I think Mark Walkers team is miles ahead with the Lock n Load series, graphically speaking. Even Panzer Campaign graphics are looking a bit rough around the edges. Sorry if that's harsh to hear.
Hi,
There is no issue with harsh criticism. I do want to check that you looked at the Panzer Battles rather than the Panzer Campaign graphics for your comparison though?
As far as Lock n Load, I agree Mark and team have some great artwork. His is drawn where as we have used colourized photos. The other variance is that he has done head shots only vs our 'head to breast' approach. What we have for Panzer Battles is every bit as good as the Volcanoman Mods for example, but not necessarily at Lock n Load level.
We will keep tweaking the art to try and improve.
As a final aside, Jison is now starting to do some official map work for Tiller so expect that to become more the norm.
David
I am referring to Panzer Battles, specifically the terrain
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 22, 2014, 07:42:47 PM
I am referring to Panzer Battles, specifically the terrain
My only concern with that comment is that it's an apples & oranges comparison. Lock n Load has a hand painted map with hexes put over it while Panzer Battles is built up with hexes by type to form a map. The Lock and Load method limits maps to a much smaller size and an inability to randomly create a map.
The method used by Tiller loses some of the beauty and variation you get when it's hand crafted.
Do note for Tiller there is six different images for each hex type, so for example there would be six different village hexes and one would randomly be used when a village hex is placed. All Tillers images can be modded and for example a building of the same quality as Lock n Load could be included, it just would be repeated across the map.
The Lock n Load map requires the map image to be imported and then a hex grid put over it. Each hex then needs to be designated by type, altitude etc as well as whether there is roads and other links to adjacent hexes. This is the reason you see much smaller maps in the computer version of Lock n Load than other computer wargames.
It's all a trade-off for what you're trying to simulate and at what scale (don't forget Panzer Battles is 250 meter hexes vs lock n Load's 50 meters).
David
JTS games and BF make up well over 90% of my gaming diet so hearing from the man himself is always interesting. I particularly found his remarks about the AI in Midway fascinating.
SB is as close to Squad Leader on a PC that anyone has come and all there's really nothing else out there for Napoleonics (absent Battles of Napoleon on a DoS Box).
I hope one day they're able to fire up TillerCon again because playing the larger games with multiple opponents in the same room is a good time.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
SB Modern War for em is the worse SB game. I was on the testing team but pulled out as I just thought the engine couldn't do Modern Warfare weapons well enough. However using the recently released X Mod I reckon this will solve some of it's problems. Infact the X Mod for me fixes the most annoying issue in SB which is the way low ammo and wounds are treated with the efficiency loss.
Quote from: jomni on July 21, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 20, 2014, 09:50:08 PM
I just picked up Squad Battles: Modern War and Modern Campaigns: Danube 85.
Both enjoyable, but extremely difficult. I've played the tutorial mission for SB:MW about 20 times and have only been able to pull off a draw.
Both are also a little dated in the graphics department, but there are a few nice map mods that I picked up.
SB:MW is not as polished as Lock n Load, but very similar. Haven't played much, and kind of upset with no campaign.
Just curious, what are folks opinions on Modern Campaigns against Flashpoint Campaigns?
Squad Battles MW Boot Camp is really hard. Move on and play the other scenarios.
Graphics not so good but I'm easy to please.
There is a campaign. But it works differently. You play a single leader that you need to keep alive through a series of linked scenarios. Scoring is different from regular scenarios. Objectives and casualties do not count. Winning or losing does not count. What counts is to keep your leader alive as long as possible. But that is only half of it. Points are awarded to your leader as he rallies troops, gets shot at, or engages in combat. So no use putting him behind the lines as you won't be earning points. You have to risk his life which is counter to the survival objective.
My favorite Squad Battles titles are Falklands, First World War, and Vietnam.
Quote from: TacticalWargames on July 24, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
SB Modern War for em is the worse SB game. I was on the testing team but pulled out as I just thought the engine couldn't do Modern Warfare weapons well enough. However using the recently released X Mod I reckon this will solve some of it's problems. Infact the X Mod for me fixes the most annoying issue in SB which is the way low ammo and wounds are treated with the efficiency loss.
Weapons seem really weak.
In the tutorial scenario the M1A1 HEAT rounds should be decimating the Iraqis in their bunker. Same for the SMAW - a weapon designed to counter bunkers.
Where can I find the X Mod? Google search produced nothing
Go to the Blitz Forum.
Then message Keif149 to email you the mod for what ever SB game you have.
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=66229 (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=66229)
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 24, 2014, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: TacticalWargames on July 24, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
SB Modern War for em is the worse SB game. I was on the testing team but pulled out as I just thought the engine couldn't do Modern Warfare weapons well enough. However using the recently released X Mod I reckon this will solve some of it's problems. Infact the X Mod for me fixes the most annoying issue in SB which is the way low ammo and wounds are treated with the efficiency loss.
Weapons seem really weak.
In the tutorial scenario the M1A1 HEAT rounds should be decimating the Iraqis in their bunker. Same for the SMAW - a weapon designed to counter bunkers.
Where can I find the X Mod? Google search produced nothing
Forces you to assault using infantry.
My sense of SB has always been that it marginalizes vehicular weapon systems...sort of like Squad Leader once upon a time, but I digress...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: Cyrano on September 02, 2014, 11:29:18 AM
My sense of SB has always been that it marginalizes vehicular weapon systems...sort of like Squad Leader once upon a time, but I digress...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
This is a very true statement and one of the reasons why I stayed away from Modern War. There could be a whole dissertation on ROE and EOF and the limiting impacts on firepower but the games do not take those factors into consideration.