After watching Marco's video review of
Sails Of Glory, I decided to order this beast. It has more detail in the optional advanced rules than I originally expected and I think that's what sold me (aside from the superb components). I also ordered a couple SOL add-on packs.
Also... I've been debating whether to pick up the new
Blue Max despite it only having a handful of aircraft types. One even being listed as Rickenbacker's "Nieuport 24" (a later mod of the Nieuport 17) when he actually flew a completely different model, the Nieuport 28. >:(
Nevertheless, I'm a bit familiar with the style of game system and the components in this one probably makes it easier to play without the extra bookkeeping of old.
Which reminds me.. I still need to finish painting the buttload of Cold War jet minis I have for
Check Your Six: Jet Age. :-\ That's quite a time investment.
Played Sails of Glory this past Feb. at Game On! in Seattle. Fun game but more involved than Wings of Glory (nee War) even in the basic game level. The ship models are superb. Plays well but can be slow with lots of players. We had 5 per side.
Quote from: Barthheart on August 04, 2014, 01:52:49 PM
Played Sails of Glory this past Feb. at Game On! in Seattle. Fun game but more involved than Wings of Glory (nee War) even in the basic game level. The ship models are superb. Plays well but can be slow with lots of players. We had 5 per side.
I shouldn't be surprised at the pace. Fortunately ( in this case) I'll probably never have more than 3 or 4 players, and possibly less. I'm sure they recommend using at least two ships per side. So a 4-ship game will probably be the ideal minimum, right?
I don't think there are any dedicated wargaming groups in my neighborhood so it will just be small friends & family games.
Four ships would be a small battle, if they were smaller ship it should work well and not take long.
With four players I'd use 2 ships per player, one large and one small. That would let each side form a nice battle line.
I have sunk hundreds of dollars into the ships...how to resist scale model ships, after all...
I observe only these things:
1. Too many bits for the trouble. At Origins, a lady showed me her system by which she replaced all the ship record mats, the ship cards that fit into them, and the counters with a simple wipe-off "dashboard" display. When intelligent players have had to work around your parts design you have, in a measure, failed.
2. Perhaps it's just the narrow rectangle on which most games are played -- the mat they sell is lovely, but, well, narrow -- but it feels awfully counter-intuitive to form line in this game. Weird giving the importance of forming line.
3. The movement is painfully fiddly. Having to place your maneuver card under the ship and then move the ship along the card is, to me, far more difficult than it should be. It has also created disputes about whether a ship was "really" where the player said it was when he moved it...this in a game that measures distances (and collisions) in very small increments.
I do like the ships, though...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
For your 3rd part, this was also "complained" about in Wings of War. But if the players can get their collective panties unbunched and just think of the small errors in movement as part of the game, everything works out fine. Real life movement is not exact, especially in a sailing ship or the canvas covered death traps they flew in WWI. If you have players that insist on playing to the micrometer locations of their ships then maybe the game is just not for them and they should go back to hex and counter games.
In the game we played at Game On that was one guys recommendation about whether he'd play again... if they brought out new maps that had hexes to regulate movement and ranges!?! I suggested that minis games might not be the best fit for him and received a scrunched up face in return.... :(
That's funny...
While there will certainly be no face-scrunching, I've taken to using my Sails of Glory ships on my over-sized hex map and playing "Close Action"...but I like miniatures games...honestly I do...
I would also observe that, despite my profligate behavior, I could never afford the Trafalgar set I've built with the plastic ships from "Pirates of the Spanish Main" and its derivatives. The system doesn't handle large actions well, anyway.
Now, when they get around to releasing the Victory, that's another matter entirely.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: Cyrano on August 05, 2014, 09:28:01 AM
While there will certainly be no face-scrunching, I've taken to using my Sails of Glory ships on my over-sized hex map and playing "Close Action"...but I like miniatures games...honestly I do...
Of note: I have an old and unused copy of
Close Action and a large cloth map with 1.5" hexes. I can also get some dual use out of it. >:D
So, by way of confession, my son and I participated in the 53-man (yeah, no women) record breaker at Gen Con last week. It was a great group of guys who didn't mind a six-year old (albeit a relatively competent one) at the table.
The boy's record? One ship sunk, none lost.
We came away with a $15 gift coupon and an half-price Sails of Glory mat.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: Cyrano on August 19, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
So, by way of confession, my son and I participated in the 53-man (yeah, no women) record breaker at Gen Con last week. It was a great group of guys who didn't mind a six-year old (albeit a relatively competent one) at the table.
The boy's record? One ship sunk, none lost.
We came away with a $15 gift coupon and an half-price Sails of Glory mat.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
That sounds like alot of fun and it was great your son was able to play. Any pictures of the event??
The best photo of the whole thing is up at the Ares' site. It was tricky fitting that many people around even the very long set of tables that they had. The folks at one of the two far ends were jammed together and, in one turn, I believe five of them sank nigh-simultaneously.
I've only got a few photographs, two of which are attached. The first is of my son with his participation certificate (another nice gift from the folks at Ares). The other is of his ship (on the right) preparing to turn and tear apart the other vessel...captained as it was by an all together nice fellow.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Wow. That's quite a big game! 8)
Been thinking of getting Sails of Glory. My only concern being that I heard the ships act more like fighter planes and less like ships. Anyone have any opinions on this?
Also any opinions on GMT games Flying Colors.
Whats your favorite Age of Sail boardgame?
Quote from: bboyer66 on November 05, 2014, 09:02:22 AM
Been thinking of getting Sails of Glory. My only concern being that I heard the ships act more like fighter planes and less like ships. Anyone have any opinions on this?
That's probably just a comparison to the previous dogfighting games that uses the same base mechanics (Wings of Glory, etc). They all use the same card system to make turns, so it's easy to compare the two systems since they use the same movement mechanic. The delineated movement on the Sails of Glory cards are generally smaller than the aircraft games, however. So I expect the ships don't speed around and maneuver quite as quickly each turn.
Quote
Also any opinions on GMT games Flying Colors.
Whats your favorite Age of Sail boardgame?
I've not played
Flying Colors. But I have the old
Close Action from Clash of Arms that people also love.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3553/close-action
Note that I've seen more than one person say that using all the
Sails of Glory advanced rules very much reminds them of the old
Wooden Ships, Iron Men. So there is more to the SoG ruleset than you may imagine. I was surprised at the size of the manual and all the advanced stuff. Didn't expect it to be as detailed as that, being a minis game.
The only setback to sticking with SoG is that you'll be tied to the limited ship types available for purchase. I believe flying colors has various ships down to large frigates and Close Action has down to Brigs IIRC (even though those don't stand a chance in direct confrontation with the Liners). So you can get more variety in the hex & counter games. The trade-off is that SoG has a range of rules difficulties to choose from, so you can tailor it's depth to the crowd. Also looks quite nice, of course.
Quote from: Nefaro on November 05, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: bboyer66 on November 05, 2014, 09:02:22 AM
Been thinking of getting Sails of Glory. My only concern being that I heard the ships act more like fighter planes and less like ships. Anyone have any opinions on this?
That's probably just a comparison to the previous dogfighting games that uses the same base mechanics (Wings of Glory, etc). They all use the same card system to make turns, so it's easy to compare the two systems since they use the same movement mechanic. The delineated movement on the Sails of Glory cards are generally smaller than the aircraft games, however. So I expect the ships don't speed around and maneuver quite as quickly each turn.
Quote
Also any opinions on GMT games Flying Colors.
Whats your favorite Age of Sail boardgame?
I've not played Flying Colors. But I have the old Close Action from Clash of Arms that people also love.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3553/close-action
Note that I've seen more than one person say that using all the Sails of Glory advanced rules very much reminds them of the old Wooden Ships, Iron Men. So there is more to the SoG ruleset than you may imagine. I was surprised at the size of the manual and all the advanced stuff. Didn't expect it to be as detailed as that, being a minis game.
The only setback to sticking with SoG is that you'll be tied to the limited ship types available for purchase. I believe flying colors has various ships down to large frigates and Close Action has down to Brigs IIRC (even though those don't stand a chance in direct confrontation with the Liners). So you can get more variety in the hex & counter games. The trade-off is that SoG has a range of rules difficulties to choose from, so you can tailor it's depth to the crowd. Also looks quite nice, of course.
Great feedback. Thanks!!
Strictly speaking, SoG isn't a boardgame, particularly (and this is no small matter) because movement isn't regulated by hexes, squares, &c., but by a hand of movement cards placed under the ships much like its aeronautic predecessors.
I have the game and most of the ships, but, in the end, two things have left me preferring the boardgames "Flying Colours" and "Close Action".
The first is the ship choices. I was very surprised when Ares released -- to its credit, for free -- a booklet of scenarios based on historic battles and discovered that the majority of the ships needed for those battles had to be doubled by the ships actually released by the company. This strikes me as very poor planning indeed. Cape Oretgal, my annual "little Trafalgar", is particularly grievous in this respect.
The second is that it wound up being too much fiddle for the effort. By the time you get to the advanced rules, all the bits, parts, and tokens make commanding more than two ships per person all but impossible. Mind, it's not that the rules are that complicated -- they're not -- but fuss factor of the components just didn't seem worth it.
So, for me, until HPS fulfills my wish and creates a MP-capable AoS game, it's "Flying Colours" for fleet actions and "Close Action" for smaller actions. The only exception to the former is cool MP games of "Close Action" run by a good GM...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Just IMHO regarding both Wings and Sails of War and/ or Glory..
I think the "movement card" mechanic is splendidly suitable for air combat. Unless you are dealing with bombers, the entire essence of air combat is based on the application of superior air combat maneuvering (ACM) in order to gain an advantaged position. There are few things more exciting than to plan out a series of moves that pulls you out of harms way and puts you back on the six of your enemy. Indeed, I can appreciate good "piloting" even when I am on the losing side of the equation.
Compare that vis-a-vis age of sail, where IMHO sometimes very few opportunities for superior naval maneuvering may present themselves. In a situation where, for example, you have two 74's sailing abeam of each other on a beam reach, sometimes the best strategy is to slug it out and wait for a lucky, crippling shot (mast, rudder, wheel, etc). Nelson's advice "No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy." often rings true. I would venture that this is precisely why Sails of Glory NEEDS all those fiddly counter-chits, etc, because the pleasure is in more in ship management than in combat maneuvering.
Yeah. Most such wooden ship wargames have many similarities anyway. It's just a matter of how they track all the inner workings and status (lotsa counters, big sheets?) and the level of detail for certain internal aspects. More so than maneuvering.
The various crew actions, often limiting the choice of their extra uses during combat, is usually a big facet of the genre. I'm pretty sure all three games mentioned thus far have a sizable focus on it.
Pounding matches are absolutely part of how any of these games play out, but Flying Colours, as a fleet game, spends a fair amount of effort limiting the small stuff and encouraging a measure of turning about -- all ships move the same number of hexes under identical wind conditions, for example -- while Close Action revels in it. I've heard the latter referred to alternatively as Star Fleet Battles on the sea and ASL for the nautically inclined.
I've spoken of my dislike of the imprecision of the card system elsewhere and it hasn't abated -- courses for horses, of course -- but I would add that SoG makes it quite difficult to form line ahead and manuever...problematic for the period.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Here is another new Sail wargame.
http://wargame-process-edition.com/ (http://wargame-process-edition.com/)
Quote from: TacticalWargames on November 07, 2014, 01:35:38 PM
Here is another new Sail wargame.
http://wargame-process-edition.com/ (http://wargame-process-edition.com/)
this was in GARPA 2 weeks ago...
http://grogheads.com/?p=6418
Quote from: bayonetbrant on November 07, 2014, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: TacticalWargames on November 07, 2014, 01:35:38 PM
Here is another new Sail wargame.
http://wargame-process-edition.com/ (http://wargame-process-edition.com/)
this was in GARPA 2 weeks ago...
http://grogheads.com/?p=6418
Was it? I don't read that. I came across it abit ago and this thread jogged my memory. A link to your article might be useful.
well you should! O0
The forum is a favoutirte link..not the main website.
We haven't played SoG in a while, but with the new table one of my boys and I pulled it out. We played the basic rule, a British frigate and SoL, me, versus a French frigate and Sol, my son.
Here are the ships approaching each other, mine on the bottom right.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000964_zps810a16bf.jpg&hash=1df21849060b77e4aac06ab24ed7ea4eec08a7e9)
Here are my ships with their movement cards.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000965_zpseee8bfcc.jpg&hash=e2dc32cc49eedb8429d15bd5b4c2c4653d4f06fe)
SoL have opened up on each other.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000966_zpsc6bbe4b0.jpg&hash=882611e1af39577017121269102e70d932645102)
After reloading Sol firing again. The frigates has fired some ineffective long range shots in between. The French are on the right in this picture.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000967_zpsae3b2f18.jpg&hash=af0ef163e43a33fd9979a53d02c920cd11db72ff)
This is the ship card for my SoL. You can see at the top I only have 2 undamaged boxes left which means my firepower is greatly reduced. The French SoL is damaged, but not quite as badly. Neither frigate has taken any damage.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000968_zpscfd92e45.jpg&hash=b934e9d6bdffd61acddb82b12e59a96af9a798de)
My frigate is firing with my SoL following, the French frigate took a wrong turn and is far away now.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000969_zps64e22e78.jpg&hash=883eb8052f29c3ef3c3e5d83dd9a46dae127be41)
SoL blasting away at point blank range. Both are heavily damaged now.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000970_zps35abfd1a.jpg&hash=1a4a85550f8337c7a0b22a9ba964aae7098bfb68)
Inexplicably, my frigate captain went port instead of starboard and sailed off the map, removing that ship from the game. Now, both SoL are about to leave the map, but get in one more broadside.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000970_zps35abfd1a.jpg&hash=1a4a85550f8337c7a0b22a9ba964aae7098bfb68)
A small victory for me as my SoL finishes off his, before leaving the map and leaving the French in control of the seas with their frigate on the other side of the map.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah70%2Fwawalter70%2FP1000972_zps1eda4856.jpg&hash=1da355c6ab9933ec535f6bf97b9de0833e4694f0)
Fun game, I think next time, we'll move up to standard rules, with different kinds of shot, sails, and having to plan your moves one turn ahead.
Nice shots!
I think the flavor will really start coming out with the Standard Rules. That's where all the basic staples of the genre start kicking in. ^-^
We played our first game with standard rules, one SoL vs one SoL. Definately more challenging having to plan one turn ahead. I was able to rake him twice, which is also new from the basic rules. We probably need another game or two at standard, then on to advanced and optional. This may not appeal to a hardcore age of sails player, but it is good for us light weights.