Today's the last day of summer. Time to turn up the Type O Negative, grab an apple cider and scare the crap out of yourself. What do you recommend? My Amazon shopping cart awaits your recommendations.
James Herbert - 'The Rats'
Scared 7 sorts of poo outta me, anyway.
Hmm never heard of it, Bawb. Off to Amazon to peruse...
Quote from: Gusington on September 22, 2014, 03:51:58 PM
Hmm never heard of it, Bawb. Off to Amazon to peruse...
And if that ain't enough, then the 'Dark Tower' series by Stephen King (7 books).
Thank you Bawb. I've heard good things about Dark Tower.
Swan Song, Boy's Life, The Wolf's Hour, They Thirst, The Night Boat and Stinger by Robert McCammon. I could name half a dozen more by the same author.
The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova. One of the best Dracula novels ever written and more in line with classic horror than modern, it starts at a slow, mysterious pace and escalates in steady stages. By the time you actually meet Dracula, the experience is far more profound than if he had been there from page one. It's a huge book and not a quick thrill, but one of my favorites.
Tap, Tap by David Martin.
Strangers by Dean Koontz (before he sucked). Not exactly a horror novel ( I don't want to tell you what it is...Koontz bends genre's like a transgender Halloween party at Star's house), but there are tons of spooky moments before you finally figure out what the hell is going on. And for goodness sake, if you haven't read "Watchers" by Koontz, put it at the top of your list. Again, not strictly a horror but if you get through the early scene in the forest without nearly peeing yourself, you get a gold star. Two of my all time favorite novels, and I have a tough list.
Oh yeah...Tick, Tock and Hideaway, also by Koontz.
Salems Lot is the only book that ever made me go get the washing off the line in the dark with a bread knife in my hand
^The bathtub scene in "The Shining". I can still hear her wet feet walking across the tile.....
lol yeah that too
havent read a real scary book in ages
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 22, 2014, 07:14:36 PM
lol yeah that too
havent read a real scary book in ages
The daily news is usually scary enough for me....
I read a lot of Koontz about 20 years ago...he still has it?
I have a hardcopy of The Historian...it's got some awesome reviews and a few not so great ones. It looks like a big commitment...is it a quicker read than it appears?
Quote from: bob48 on September 22, 2014, 03:34:08 PM
James Herbert - 'The Rats'
Scared 7 sorts of poo outta me, anyway.
Read all three of the series when I was 12..loved them back then.
The original Amityville Horror scared the living poop outta me when I was 14.
i dont know if its the first or second film but in one scene someone slams a bedroom door and theres just a pair of red eyes looking through the bedroom window, no clash of cymbals, no dramatic music, and after a second or two they fade out - i think a bit of wee came out when i saw that as a kid
Quote from: Gusington on September 22, 2014, 08:07:01 PM
I read a lot of Koontz about 20 years ago...he still has it?
I have a hardcopy of The Historian...it's got some awesome reviews and a few not so great ones. It looks like a big commitment...is it a quicker read than it appears?
Koontz has been a sellout for a few years now...and I don't mean that in the good way. He kicks out a novel a year because he has a contract and besides, it's still going to be a best seller. He connects now and then (maybe every third book), but nothing like his heyday years with Lightning, Strangers, Watchers, & Dark Rivers of the Heart.
The Historian is not a quick read, however it flows well, seldom gets bogged down and the payoff is worth it. There's a lot of foreplay before you get to the really good part, but its all the better for it.
But hey, if you're looking to finish a novel or two in time for Halloween, stick with the shorter McCammon novels. There's plenty of scares there for ya!
Flowers in the Attic (VC Andrews)
Piercing (Ryu Murakami)
The Exorcist
Ghost Story (Peter Straub)
Hell House (Richard Matheson)
The Haunting of Hill House (Shirley Jackson)
Dawn (Octavia Butler)
Also, Steven King's 'The Mist' is a terrifying little read. The movie sucks compared to the story, but that's the way it usually is. I think it's a short story though and I'm not sure which collection it's in, offhand.
I've been wanting to read The Exorcist forever. There's a hard over edition of it bound with the sequel (Legion) that originally sold for 50.00 and I didn't buy it when it was released. Now it sells for 250.00 :/
I've read The Haunting of Hill House and Hell House...I remember Hell House scaring the crap out of me...even the cover was creepy.
Ghost Story....excellent choice! Read it years ago, has an odd twist at the end but the scare factor is huge all the way through.
"dance with me, you little toad"....
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 22, 2014, 06:43:40 PM
Salems Lot is the only book that ever made me go get the washing off the line in the dark with a bread knife in my hand
Salem's Lot is by far the scariest book I've ever read. Living about 40 miles from where "The Lot" was supposed to be located kicked the fear factor up a notch.
Read
The Strain trilogy. if you haven't already. Surprisingly good (far better than the tv show) with some genuinely scary moments.
Quote from: mirth on September 23, 2014, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 22, 2014, 06:43:40 PM
Salems Lot is the only book that ever made me go get the washing off the line in the dark with a bread knife in my hand
Salem's Lot is by far the scariest book I've ever read. Living about 40 miles from where "The Lot" was supposed to be located kicked the fear factor up a notch.
Read The Strain trilogy. if you haven't already. Surprisingly good (far better than the tv show) with some genuinely scary moments.
Seriously?
2 bread knives!
I've wanted to read Salem's Lot forever but honestly have been afraid of it...there is an illustrated version available too, IIRC. Scariest book you've ever read eh?
It was for me.... just don't supplement it with the david soul film
I grew up in Central Maine and some of the towns King mentions in the area of Salem's Lot were near my home town. A few were places I new well. I read the book when I was about 10 years old and it scared the bejeezus out of me.
It's still quite frightening to read as an adult. Especially on a gusty fall night when the tree branches are scratching against the house.
Maine....Maine....good God, how could I not list John Connolly's Charlie Parker series??? I must be getting senile!!!
Charlie Parker is an alcoholic NYPD detective whose wife and child are slaughtered by a serial killer while he is boozing it up in a bar. After losing his job and nearly his mind, he reappears sober in Maine carrying a PI badge. The supernatural bent starts early as Charlie starts to see his dead wife and child. Later books go full-bore supernatural/horror with the deep, dark woods of Maine serving as a playground for the dead, undead and ancient demonic spirits which we all know haunt those forests ;) Add two of the best sidekicks ever and it's a helluva series.
One of the creepiest authors out there. Seriously, Gus....if I only had one recommendation to give, the Charlie Parker series is it. Start with Every Dead Thing and read 'em in order.
With a light on.
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^Nice, I think we've hit pay dirt! Now I have to choose...Salem's Lot, Every Dead Thing or The Historian...
Quote from: Gusington on September 23, 2014, 07:31:02 PM
^Nice, I think we've hit pay dirt! Now I have to choose...Salem's Lot, Every Dead Thing or The Historian...
You can knock off both Salem's Lot and Every Dead Thing before Halloween, or go with The Historian and finish it by New Years ;D
Oh and just for fun....
Book 3 in the Charlie Parker series has some of the most...disturbing...scenes with spiders ever written. Creepy doesn't begin to describe it. Simply reading the first chapter would leave anyone with a spider phobia a shivering, drooling mess with scenes burned into their brain that would deprive them of sleep countless nights. Made me jumpy as hell and I'm not arachnophobic.
Of course, we don't know anyone with a spider phobia...... bwahahaha!!!!!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51UUI394G7L._BO2%2C204%2C203%2C200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big%2CTopRight%2C0%2C-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4%2CBottomRight%2C1%2C22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg&hash=20acc9d865a2ea04d97fb4be2cd587a6d4892647)
It couldn't be any worse than the torture described in The Keep...thanks for the above Steelie, I like my reads to be quick, if possible. But if the Historian is really that good will I mind that it's 650 pages?
Quote from: Gusington on September 23, 2014, 09:12:20 PM
It couldn't be any worse than the torture described in The Keep...thanks for the above Steelie, I like my reads to be quick, if possible. But if the Historian is really that good will I mind that it's 650 pages?
I think The Historian is well worth your time to read, Gus. However, the tone of your thread made me think you wanted to get "in the mood" for Halloween and you've said before that you
aren't a fast reader like to savor your reading. With that in mind, you could likely read two or three of the other novels mentioned before Halloween, get that delicious frightful chill, and read The Historian at a later date.
But every novel mentioned in this thread covers your bases nicely. I'm going to re-read the Connolly books (and another is soon to be published) because now I'm in the mood for a little supernatural thrill myself.
You can't go wrong whichever way you jump, m'friend. But do yourself a favor and eventually read 'em all.
ive heard the Road is supposed to be quite unpleasant
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 24, 2014, 03:31:51 AM
ive heard the Road is supposed to be quite unpleasant
I almost listed that one. That book IS supremely depressing. His style in it is mesmerizing, though - he doesn't use quotes to indicate dialogue.
The Road is the one book I've read that has made me cry.
Unlike almost every WWI game I've played.
now i know it doesnt take much to get you to well up, but was it that bad?
If you read The Road and you have a son, it will gut you emotionally.
Quote from: Gusington on September 23, 2014, 09:12:20 PM
It couldn't be any worse than the torture described in The Keep...thanks for the above Steelie, I like my reads to be quick, if possible. But if the Historian is really that good will I mind that it's 650 pages?
Gus, 'The Historian' is one creepy book.
My copy is beckoning to me right now, much like ucg's mom.
lmao
you thought Salems Lot was scary?
Dracula by Bram Stoker (you can get it free for a kindle if you look around)
A Shadow Over Innsmouth
The Call of Cthulhu
Those Who Stalk the Night - a very intelligent vampire book set in the late 1800s. The protagonist is a guy who is a retired military spy for the UK.
I found The Stand to be horrifying. But it fits well with the Bible and I believe that Satan is real. If you don't have those beliefs, it may not be that frightening.
Survivor Type is a horrifying short story by Stephen King. It's about a guy that gets marooned on an island and writes a diary. He slowly eats himself to survive.
Thanks Cat and Airboy...I've read Dracula and almost everything by Lovecraft...have not heard of Those Who Stalk the Night, will check that out.
Cannibalism isn't really on my bucket list.
Welp...you asked for horrifying. :D
Ha true. The Road has more than its fair share of cannibalism btw.
I just downloaded "Every Dead Thing" for my kindle. Can't say I don't take my own advice O0
Thank goodness I clicked on this thread!
Ok, first, both my wife and I are in the "did not like The Historian" camp. I didn't stick real long with it, to be fair, and neither did my wife. It certainly isn't a book that grabs you early, like Steelie mentions. Maybe I'll revisit it, but I wouldn't put it high on your list.
Re: Salem's Lot...super awesome book. I've read it probably a half dozen times. I have a hardback copy that has three King books in it: Carrie, Salem's Lot, The Shining. I think I got it at Borders or B&N for like $10 a few years ago. Might be worth a trip to the book store for that one. Salem's Lot isn't a long book, so you should be able to get through it in a couple of days.
King's The Stand is probably my favorite book of all time, certainly in my top 3. It was the very first book I bought for my Kindle, to put it in perspective, and I have two hardback copies because I read the first copy until it died. I'm not religious at all and I still thought it was fantastic (there is definitely a good/evil religious aspect to it so I see Airboy's point).
King's It is also very scary, but it is LONG. However, it is a great book and it hooks you pretty early on. I haven't read it in years and years, maybe 15 or 20 years? so I really do need to pick it up again soon.
I didn't care for the Wasteland books. I keep getting to Book 2 and hitting the wall. Maybe I need to stick with it longer, just power through Book 2 and then judge.
The book from which the first Alien movie was based is very scary, if I remember correctly. Now we're talking a really long time ago!
That's about it. I don't read too many scary books outside of Stephen King.
Finally read The Shining a couple of years ago and enjoyed it. Was the Alien book also called...Alien?
Quote from: Gusington on September 25, 2014, 02:43:52 PM
Finally read The Shining a couple of years ago and enjoyed it. Was the Alien book also called...Alien?
Yes. It was the novelization of the movie. It was much better, too, as it went into some things that the released film did not. Though, they did shoot some of the scenes (such as Ripley finding Captain Dallas cocooned near the end).
There's also a decent series of Aliens books, starting with Earth Hive. Dark Horse did a good job of inventing a plausible storyline post-Aliens. Nothing like the abortion of Aliens 3 and the others, that's for damned sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_(novel_series)
Here's a wiki link to the Earth Hive book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Earth_Hive
The Dark Horse/Bantam novelizations mirror the movie characters to an extent. There's a young girl much like Newt, and a grizzled Colonial Marine as well, sort of like Hicks was.
OK wait - it came out after the movie...it was not the book the movie was based on?
I didn't realize that. Still a good book IMO, but I was probably like 12 when I read it. :-[
Quote from: Gusington on September 25, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
OK wait - it came out after the movie...it was not the book the movie was based on?
Not sure what you mean.
The novelization of the original movie, Alien, was written by Alan Dean Foster.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-The-Official-Movie-Novelization/dp/1783290153
Foster also wrote the novelizations of Aliens and Alien 3. Someone else did Alien Resurrection. Can't remember whom.
The Earth Hive book takes place after Alien 3 (Wiki says "some years" after Aliens and Alien 3). The Newt-like character (Billie) and her Colonial Marine buddy (Wilks) are survivors of an alien incursion on a colony world named Rim. Read the Earth Hive Wiki entry; it can cover it better than I remember the story.
There's something like a dozen or more follow-on novels after Earth Hive. Spolier: Aliens invade the Earth in the book Earth Hive. As if you couldn't garner that from the title. :coolsmiley:
Toonces posted above that the mobie Alien was based on a book but from subsequent posts it appears to be the opposite...the movie was released and then a novelization of it was released.
Earth Hive was pretty good. Never read any of the follow-ons..
Sounds unsuifable for Martok.
I just assumed that the movie was based on the book. Isn't that how it usually goes?
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Novelization-Alan-Dean-Foster/dp/1783290153/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411752002&sr=1-1&keywords=alien
Alien: The Official Movie Novelization
Most Helpful Customer Reviews
12 of 13 people found the following review helpful
Better than I feared, worse than I'd hoped
By Amazon Customer TOP 500 REVIEWER on June 23, 2009
Format: Mass Market Paperback
Alien (Film Novelization) / 0-446-82977-3
The film novelization of "Alien" is pleasantly well-written from a technical standpoint; the book possesses correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation, which cannot always be said for film novelizations. The characters are largely true to their counterparts in the movie, and both the expanded dialogue and the internal thoughts of the crew have a ring of the genuine to them.
This novelization was apparently based on an extremely early transcript of the screenplay and there are several noticeable differences between the film and the book, which is slightly disappointing if you read film novelizations as a companion to flesh out the film more fully. Most notably, the dead alien with the chest-burst rib cage is missing - a very jarring omission which had me flipping back and forth, wondering where it had got to - and a great deal of the final plot with Ash's betrayal is different, with Ash deliberately and openly interceding to save the alien from being shot out an airlock.
Even considering the omissions, there is a great deal here for fans of the movie to enjoy. The alien facehugger is described very nicely, with frequent allusions to its 'skeletal hand' appearance. (The final form of the alien is described almost not at all, however, presumably due to vagueness in the written screenplay.) The internal thoughts of the crew are fleshed out nicely, with a particular emphasis on Ripley of course, but with flourishes that greatly humanize Dallas and Parker in particular. There is foreshadowing of Kane's ultimate demise, with a mysterious black 'blotch' on the medical scanner over Kane's lungs, and Ash explains how the Company had known that the alien was there (having picked up and translated the warning via long-range scans), and had substituted Ash for the previous science officer right before the Nostromo's regularly scheduled trip, in the hopes that they would pick up an alien and 'accidentally' bring it back to Earth, bypassing the questions and quarantines that a direct mission would have generated. There is also a very nice included scene that was eventually (and in my opinion, unfortunately) cut from the film, where Ripley discovers a cocooned Brett and Dallas, and is forced to euthanize her former friend.
The most disappointing aspect of this book, however, is that the pacing is excessively slow and dull, particularly in the beginning. Even the first few pages crawl painfully, as Foster "introduces" each cryo-sleeping crew member by describing their dreams and discussing whether they would be candidates for 'professional dreamers' and whether their dreams are restless or ordered, pleasant or painful, hazy or distinct. The writing style is what I would deem 'experimental' and I think it might have even worked well if Foster had felt comfortable including more physical detail, but since he was trying to match a movie that apparently hadn't finished yet, details like the appearance of the crew, the ship, the planet, and the alien are kept to a minimum, leaving only the heavy speculative prose.
If you're a die-hard fan of the series, this book is worth checking out, but just factor in the slow-pacing and don't expect too much. For what it is worth, I am now reading Foster's sequel Aliens, and so far the author seems to have corrected all the writing 'mistakes' in "Alien", indicating either growth on the part of the author, or a more complete screenplay source, or both. So if there's a chance that you might read the entire series of alien film novelizations, I recommend starting with this one and just remembering that they get better.
~ Ana Mardoll
Something Wicked This Way Comes is mandatory reading for me this time of year.
Quote from: Bison on September 26, 2014, 12:36:56 PM
Something Wicked This Way Comes is mandatory reading for me this time of year.
One of my favourite Bradbury novels.
Hmm interesting...never read that. Can you give some quick background on Something Wicked?
Gus I'm not speaking to you again until you spend an evening and read Something Wicked This Way Comes.
Until just now you didn't talk to me for a year!
How's it going Bart!
Good, Bison. You? Can you believe some the un-read heathens on this board? ???
Surprising really. I know.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on September 25, 2014, 08:43:25 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 25, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
OK wait - it came out after the movie...it was not the book the movie was based on?
Not sure what you mean.
The novelization of the original movie, Alien, was written by Alan Dean Foster.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-The-Official-Movie-Novelization/dp/1783290153
Foster also wrote the novelizations of Aliens and Alien 3. Someone else did Alien Resurrection. Can't remember whom.
That's a name I have not come across in a long time. That guy could write. I should look up his other works.
I don't know if I'd find Salem's Lot] all that frightening today, but I did as a teen. It's still my favorite King book by a solid edge: plenty of characteristic small-town-supernatural-disaster detail, but significantly unbloated. Also, up to the point I stopped reading him (sometime after It, though I enjoyed that, too), I can't think of a King book that's as perfectly Halloweenish in atmosphere and proceedings. Anyone who hasn't read it, looking for a seasonal treat, should find it aptly worth your time.
For a classic from about the same time which hasn't been mentioned yet, may I suggest Whitley Streiber's Wolfen? It's a fast-paced read which, for me, pulls off the nearly impossible trick of making the wolfen a suspenseful threat in the human chapters, and sympathetic characters in the wolfen chapters.
^Wolfen...they made a movie based on that didn't they?
Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2014, 07:11:45 PM
^Wolfen...they made a movie based on that didn't they?
Yeah, but the book was better. Frankly, I didn't find either to be all that scary, but the book was a bit deeper and seeing things from the wolfen point of view was a great addition.
Alright, I'm going to jump into The Dark Tower series. I quit about halfway through book 2, but I'm willing to give it another shot in honor of the season and all. Besides, I already own the damn book. ::)
Im into the early 30's of Mirth's biography.
holy fuck is he a twisted unholy satanist. :o
it never occurred to me to use zip ties and mayonnaise that way. its both brilliant and repulsive at the same time.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 03, 2014, 02:16:09 AM
Im into the early 30's of Mirth's biography.
holy fuck is he a twisted unholy satanist. :o
it never occurred to me to use zip ties and mayonnaise that way. its both brilliant and repulsive at the same time.
My 30s were a time great of innovation.
credit where credit is due.
Was that dude in Seven who killed the hooker with the bladed strap on based on mirth?
Quote from: Gusington on October 03, 2014, 08:01:58 AM
Was that dude in Seven who killed the hooker with the bladed strap on based on mirth?
That's pretty much the assumption I think..... 8)
Quote from: Steelgrave on October 02, 2014, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2014, 07:11:45 PM
^Wolfen...they made a movie based on that didn't they?
Yeah, but the book was better. Frankly, I didn't find either to be all that scary, but the book was a bit deeper and seeing things from the wolfen point of view was a great addition.
The movie is... odd... but it definitely has its moments.
* The plot is more political, with the wolves being treated as terrorists (because, in a way, they are).
* Yaphet Kotto, around the time of
Alien, dies messily as a badass ex-Ton Ton Macoute thug.
*The first relatively big movie for James Horner to write music for, from which he would later crib quite a bit of his signature
Aliens score.
* Also, some of his characteristic instruments actually show up in the film as wind-chimes in a park! -- in a wolfen-stalking sequence no less!
* Gregory Hines goes straight from being a comedy relief cop sidekick in this to being a less-doomed comedy-team cop (and less of a sidekick) in the underrated
Running Scared.
* Michael Wadleigh directed this film after directing
Woodstock, and THE EXPERIENCE (of trying to deal with the ways studios work) KILLED HIS FILM CAREER -- so hard that he's currently a bus driver in Los Angeles if I recall correctly. But he doesn't suck, it's a really well-shot film -- I showed it to one of my teachers in college (where I was getting a broadcast communications degree) and said, "Is it just me or does this movie use literally every physical shot composition you've been telling us about in class? The whole list?" AND IT DOES!! -- she screened it for us as a test to find and mark shot compositions!
* First major film to use steady-cam, especially for wolfen p-o-v shots.
* First major film to use an electronic solarizer, also for the wolfen p-o-v night-vision shots.
* Man, the locational shots in this film -- I would love to hear a commentary track, because there have to be a ton of different wacky stories, and some of them would have to be about how the 2nd unit guys went out of their way to find the most ruined parts of New York, the parts no one ever films, which in that day were being slowly knocked down... which becomes a heavy topical plot point, since doing so is reducing the wolfen hunting ground. DECAYING NEW YORK BOROUGHS ARE TREATED LIKE CANADIAN OR AMAZONIAN RAINFOREST!!
* The underlying plot that drives the movie is basically the same as
Darkman. With the wolfen == Darkman. Let that concept wash over you.
* The three most frightening moments in the film, are jump scares where literally nothing happens. This tickled the teacher who screened it for us as a test, too. (And they work; the other kids with me in class jumped HARD all three times.)
* Admiral Adama from the Battlestar Galactic reboot (Edward James Olmos), has a significant amount of screentime as an Iroquois steel worker who likes to run around naked on an abandoned beach pretending to be a wolf. (He was a lot younger then.)
* Relatedly, the movie constantly plays with teasing the audience about whether human terrorists or human WEREWOLF TERRORISTS are responsible for the killings going on. Spoiler: it is not human werewolf terrorists. As the opening hunt/kill sequence makes pretty abundantly clear. But since the audience is clearly going to know that standard human terrorists are not the culprits during the initial investigations, it's a bit genius to throw the audience an idea that's much closer to what they'd be expecting from a movie which
obviously seems to be about werewolves: werewolf terrorists.
* Due to budget and tech restrictions, the humanoid wolves of the book couldn't be used, so it's just regular (but very scary looking) black wolves (plus a white wolf queen or something. The black wolves show up in other movies of the period, too -- they're like character actors!) But they can still do things like climb around on buildings like Spider-man, and decapitate a guy by jumping at him. (The decapitation sfx is otherwise quite good, btw.) And in their final, full appearance someone in post adds electronic crayon effects to their eyes and mouths to make them look more menacing.
* Other horror: grouchy old white sloppy fat Albert Finney getting to bed the hot young anti-terrorist expert policewoman. This comes out of PLOT NOWHERE -- it doesn't even match up well with the (explicitly adulterous) relationship of the two cops in the book. It's like they thought audiences would expect it, and the movie is running out of time, and this seems like the last good place to put it, so... wait, didn't we cast Albert Finney in the mancop role?? TOO LATE, WRITHE AUDIENCES, WRIIIIITHHHEEE!!1 {mad cackling}
* The moral of the movie, and I am not even slightly exaggerating or making this up, is that it was perfectly okay and even morally beautiful for those wolves to be killing homeless people, because they weren't wanted anyway: if the wolves had only kept killing the desperately poor minority people instead of upscaling to the ultra-rich white guy, there would have been no problem at all!
Seriously. In a beautifully poignant finale, Finney makes peace with the wolfen by managing to communicate to them that he has no intention of continuing his prosecution of them: so they're safe and can go back to their way of life without fear of further interference from human authorities. It's a great scene, and leads out to a wistful ending monologue from Finney's character as the wolves gallop joyfully back through city streets in the early morning light, to the ruined church where they live, ending with another of the movie's signature 'wolfen-view' sequences (shot with that newfangled steady-cam thing and the electronic solarization effect) soaring through the church, up the stairs, into the attic where the sun shines through broken stained glass and doves fly out and around, to the strains of Horner's gorgeous and unique music. And everyone lives happily ever after, in union with nature! Except for the homeless people the wolves are killing for food.
I honestly don't know if this idea was really the filmmakers' intention, or if they just didn't see the Implied Holocaust implications (though that would be weird since the one black guy in the cast makes a few offhand remarks about it before he's removed from the plot), or if they were going for a pure camp satire of radical environmentalism -- the cast and the story structure/presentation plays all this perfectly straight, but that's what camp satire would also do.
Streiber in the book may be intentionally taking a more serious look at the dilemma of evolutionary morality, not criticizing against it but fatalistically accepting it and using a science-fiction framing to illustrate the tragic tension. (The story either way is more science-fiction than fantasy.) The book is very clear about presenting the two species at eternal odds with one another. There can't be peace between them, because evolutionarily they're in a life and death competition. Sure, the father of the pack may have a few liberal tendencies of pity and sympathy for the humans. Which are richly played for dramatic effect when he refuses to risk his family any further and mounts a final assault by himself to kill off the last humans who know what's going on: he firmly puts aside his nascent sympathy for the humans, and his distant wish that something more could be had between the two groups, and goes up the side of that skyscraper to do what needs to be done. Because that's just how things are, and they can't realistically be any different.
And in terms of the moral grounding underlying the story (whether book or movie), the book's father of the pack is exactly right. (There are dozens of more packs in the book, all over the world, some of them out in the woods.) It's a survival of the species situation. There can be no compromise, because the humans cannot and should not (despite the movie's 'Lost Aesop' ending) be expected to tolerate this kind of threat living among them -- even if that threat usually only goes after humans the other humans don't want around. Because there's no way to guarantee that the threat
won't occasionally go after humans the other humans
do want around (especially themselves!) instead.
The only other option is to just accept the sacrifice of undesirables, like the last of the Mohicans do in the movie -- even if you might be one of the undesirables yourself someday. (But, hey, keep your own head above water and maybe you won't be considered expendable prey! Otherwise, sucks to be you, but that's how it is.)
Anyway: if anyone has ever wanted to watch an arguably mainstream film that, in effect, ends with Simba and his fellow lions singing about the glory of "The Circle of Life" when the prey animals on the bottom end of that circle are homeless humans... NOW YOU CAN! :idiot2: :2funny: If I was the sort to write short stories, and if I was a little more evil, I'd run a parody homage with a pack of wolfen picking off stragglers for food at the fringes of the Woodstock concert. (Which, come to think of it, wouldn't have been far from the truth in some ways. (http://www.cracked.com/article/116_5-facts-about-woodstock-hippies-dont-want-you-to-know/))
It's been many, many years since I've read the book or seen the movie....so many little tidbits you picked up that I had forgotten. Or not known at the time (i.e. Edward James Olmos). I remember liking the movie but not being blown away by it. Considering that it's on Netflix and you have now piqued my interest, it's going to be weekend viewing. Coolness.
Correction....looks like it's DVD plan only on Netflix. It is however available on Amazon streaming for $2.99. You would think a movie that old would be Amazon Prime.
Quote from: airboy on September 25, 2014, 07:04:10 AM
Those Who Stalk the Night - a very intelligent vampire book set in the late 1800s. The protagonist is a guy who is a retired military spy for the UK.
...not at Amazon? Just did a search, found nothing by that title. Author?
Dude with all that energy your brain uses on Wolfen info you could have solved the world's energy and climate problems and cured cancer while on the can taking a break.
^ :2funny:
Just when I thought I had seen it all, JP lays out a detailed breakdown of Wolfen.
^It freaked me out too.
My geeking is randomly selective. :D (I ported part of that analysis years ago into a criticism of the 3rd edition of the Humanist Manifesto, btw.)
That does remind me that a couple of years ago I invented a crazy economic recovery theory I call "constructive decimation" which, if implemented, would (probably) solve the world economy problems. Unlike the bizarre radical Malthusian stance taken by the movie version of Wolfen, it does not however involve letting wolves kill off sick and weak members of the human herd or anything else like that. ;)
I was bored that day. :idiot2: O:-)
I may start a thread on it, though, since I like to go back occasionally and pick at problems with it to see if they can be resolved. It basically involves the government requiring all goods and services bought and sold in the United States being occasionally reset back to 10% of their current value once indices rise far enough; so any money saved up between decimations is suddenly worth 10x more in buying US goods and services, including all money from other nations (the value of the money itself isn't directly touched). The main drawback is that the value of goods and services everywhere else would of course remain the same which might make it extremely difficult in the medium-term for American industries to get some rare materials or materials largely made elsewhere, since their income stream would be reduced to 10%. (Or not quite, as exports ought to skyrocket, which would offset some of the gross revenue loss, but still their income streams would be less. We'd probably have to radically restructure how far top-earning management and similar plush expenditures could go.)
:o
IT IS FRIGHTENING! WITH A SUPERNATURAL BENT!! >:D :2funny:
Back on the actual topic (at last), I still haven't been able to find the "Those Who Stalk The Night" book mentioned by Airboy.
For years I knew the day was coming when I'd say that I knew one of you "back before he snapped." Looks like today is Jason Pratt's day.