Hello all. I've been looking for places to post to people still interested in playing the game. I've updated the game with some modern aircraft as well as some of the ones that were missing for the 1965 and 1971 Indo-Pak conflicts.
Here are the most recent updates:
A version 1.2 update that mainly addresses some aircraft data corrections and the optional use of hidden anti-aircraft units.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/njsgj795o0i4q3c/fc2_mod_v1.2.zip
The version 1.2 update with the addition of Airwolf.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3b1569t1jjv6096/fc2_AIRWOLF_mod.zip
A conversion of FC2 to a Vietnam War helicopter gunship game using the version 1.2 mod. It's still a work-in-progress beta so there's more stuff that needs to be done. The version I've posted may still have some graphics errors, so just let me know if you see any that are not mentioned in the docs and I'll try to fix them ASAP.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/mectf587jnvmgmt/fc2_VNAM_GUNSHIPS_mod_ver0.1.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7zfyv65vqg0aui8/fc2_VNAM_GUNSHIPS_mod_FC.EXE_update.zip
Implementing helicopters into the game using thrust-to-weight rather than power-to-weight took a lot of research and old-fashioned trial and error. I've yet to find a definitive mathematical conversion between the two but I was lucky enough to find a webpage that had some thrust-to-weight listings for a few helicopters to use as reference. So far, because I can't properly calculate the 'thrust' component, the only aircraft data in the game that doesn't come at least close to the actual stats for the helicopters is 'maximum external payload' and 'maximum takeoff weight'.
I'm also experimenting with the idea of extra gunners for aircraft. Since door gunners were a vital component to helicopter combat operations in Vietnam I've set up 'flying gun platforms' with a sprite fashioned after gun cross-hairs to serve as gunners. They follow the aircraft they are defending to shoot down attackers from the front, rear or sides (nearly 360 degrees for helicopter gunships). I think this will be a welcome solution as a tail gunner for the B-52 in an upcoming mod update. I well remember as I was testing the B-52 in version 1.1 how helpless they were to Mig attacks while on their bombing runs. It seems to be working OK in the VNAM gunships mod but it still needs more testing.
Go here http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3996934#Post3996934 to check out some pics from the updates.
Welcome Tim - I'm not a flight simmer myself, but once the guys start waking up and logging in, you might get a few responses :)
I still play it a bit, on occasion. Would like to check it out the next time I do although I've not been PC gaming much lately.
I'm curious as to why you haven't linked the upload. The file size surely isn't very large and there are free hosting sites out there if you're worried about traffic.
I'd prefer to post the link but I don't want to get into any trouble if it's against the rules of this forum to link to media related to copyrighted material. I first posted a while back on SIMHQ but it was suggested there that I just use PM. I'll post the question to a moderator here and if they say it's okay I'll edit my first post to include the link.
Quote from: tlm70 on September 30, 2014, 09:12:24 AM
I'd prefer to post the link but I don't want to get into any trouble if it's against the rules of this forum to link to media related to copyrighted material. I first posted a while back on SIMHQ but it was suggested there that I just use PM. I'll post the question to a moderator here and if they say it's okay I'll edit my first post to include the link.
Oh, I see. O0
The game isn't a flight sim as such..but a top down tactical game.
It's an old classic. You should try it if you come across it. You may enjoy it.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 30, 2014, 08:31:48 AM
Welcome Tim - I'm not a flight simmer myself, but once the guys start waking up and logging in, you might get a few responses :)
I find that the ground attack isn't modeled well. Very difficult to hit and destroy stuff even when using guided weapons.
The air combat is great.
This is currently being developed...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476)
Is anyone still selling FC2? I used to have it on 3.5" disks that are long gone.
Quote from: TacticalWargames on October 03, 2014, 12:27:25 AM
This is currently being developed...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476)
Good to see it's still progressing. O0
Quote from: RyanE on October 03, 2014, 05:54:38 AM
Is anyone still selling FC2? I used to have it on 3.5" disks that are long gone.
You can still find copies on Amazon both new and used last time I checked. Over the years, I've purchased three mainly because I had a tendency to wear out instruction manuals. I carried them (and comic books and sci-fi novels) nearly everywhere I went.
So what does this take to run on modern computers and how well does it actually play on them nowadays? Like the concept but have bought older games before only not to play them long because they were "dated".
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on October 25, 2014, 06:49:00 AM
So what does this take to run on modern computers and how well does it actually play on them nowadays? Like the concept but have bought older games before only not to play them long because they were "dated".
It runs just fine on XP. For Win7 (and maybe 8 ) you could use the emulator 'DOSBox'. Because FC2 is a windows based game rather than pure dos based, DOSBox needs some tweaking to get it to run. I generally run it with XP since that's my current OS, but sometimes I like to run it with DOSBox running Win3.1 because I can use various graphics filters to smooth out the pixels. Here's a link to a thread with more info about running it:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4016210/1
Although it's an old game, it has been on my hard drive ever since I purchased it many years ago. The controls and interface are quite intuitive. You really have to think and fly as you would on a flight sim to be successful with the game. The various aircraft do actually feel different in the game because the aircraft characteristics such as weight, thrust, and wing area are calculated and modeled. I find it quite challenging to use an aircraft such as the F-104C and try to win over more maneuverable aircraft like the Hawker Hunter or the Mig-21.
I may have forgotten to write it the docs for one of the updates, but generally it's best to delete or rename both the 'PIX' and the 'SOUNDS' folders in your original FC2 folder before you install the mods.
Cool stuff.
Been thinking of doing some more FC2, along with some OTR/Achtung Spitfire.
I'm unfamiliar with the mods. What is the "Airwolf" mod? Is that the one with new 'counter' graphics, or is there other additions too?
Thanks!
Quote from: RyanE on October 03, 2014, 05:54:38 AM
Is anyone still selling FC2? I used to have it on 3.5" disks that are long gone.
I don't think anyone uses 3.5 floppy drives anymore. Plus the installer isn't Win compatible these days.
The "Airwolf mod" is just the version 1.2 mod with the addition of "Airwolf" to the roster of aircraft you can use. I used info from Wikipedia to model the fictional Mach 1+ attack helicopter from the 80's TV show. The TV show made it all look so easy (and maybe a bit believable) for the hotshot pilot to take on jet fighters with this super helicopter, but in FC2 it can be really difficult to complete missions. The biggest problems with Airwolf would be the lack of "Beyond Visual Range" weapons and limited air-to-ground stores. Airwolf's greatest strengths are its inherent maneuverability as a helicopter (or so it goes in the TV show) and its ability to more often than not engage and disengage combat at will due to the combination of stealth, speed and extremely high acceleration.
Ever since I first started playing FC2 I always thought it would be fun to model other aircraft into the game. It was quite a challenge to get Airwolf (and helicopters in general) to "feel" right in the game and it's just as challenging to successfully use Airwolf to complete a mission. The changes to the game included adjusting the weights and/or maximum ranges of weapons to model hellfire missiles as well as the fictional "copperhead" and "modified redeye" missiles. I hope people can have as much fun playing with it as have.
FC2, together with Achtung Spitfire! and Over the Reich (All written by Charles Moylan@Battlefront), and published by Monarch publishing could really do with bringing up to date. They are terrific games, but as noted elsewhere are graphically VERY dated. I suspect that there probably is a decent market for that sort of game.
Thanks for the info Tlm!
Quote from: Boggit on February 27, 2015, 05:56:21 AM
FC2, together with Achtung Spitfire! and Over the Reich (All written by Charles Moylan@Battlefront), and published by Monarch publishing could really do with bringing up to date. They are terrific games, but as noted elsewhere are graphically VERY dated. I suspect that there probably is a decent market for that sort of game.
Yeah, they're great. And based on tabletop wargames. 8)
While Flight Commander wasn't too difficult to envision what was going on, AS and OTR's deeper movement & attitude rules made it difficult to see how everything was spatially related, and their angles. I think a 3D version of that system would be superb. Then you could move the camera around to see exactly where everyone is and where they're pointing/banking/etc, making your next moves much more informed.
QuoteWhile Flight Commander wasn't too difficult to envision what was going on, AS and OTR's deeper movement & attitude rules made it difficult to see how everything was spatially related, and their angles.
I tend to agree. I have both AS and OTR but one of the reasons they haven't been on any of my hard drives in a playable form for nearly a decade is because those deeper movement and attitude rules would more often than not make for a slower paced game experience for me when compared to FC2. The movement system for AS/OTR did seem to deliver a very good sense of "piloting an aircraft" for a turn based game but it also seemed to make combat that could have been over in a matter of minutes feel more like an hour. It sometimes felt more like tedious work rather than fun game play. It also didn't help that you had to visit all aircraft on your side for every turn for air-to-air combat as well as personally direct all bombing runs.
In a one-on-one, two-on-two or four-on-four air-to-air engagement it could work very well, sometimes feeling like a well choreographed dance of banks, rolls, climbs and dives. But using larger formations seemed like too much work. FC2 has always been on my hard drives ready to play because combat could be resolved in mere minutes of game play. The lack of fine control such as the angle of your bank while making a turn seems well worth the trade-off for the movement phasing system which conveys the sensation of having the advantages of the tactical positioning of your aircraft and pilot experience.
The ability to quickly issue movement orders to all aircraft in formation is also a much cherished feature for me. It really emphasizes the advantages of having a wingman to "cover your six" as well as forcing you as a leader to decide when it's more advantageous to break the formation to increase your pilots chances of survival through individual maneuvering. You don't need to shepherd each pilot for every turn when you place them under computer control, but if needed you can issue movement orders to your wingmen for a turn or two if the tactical situation suddenly dictates teamwork.
I've often wondered if the movement system of FC2 would work with a WW2 styled game. Someone asked not too long ago if I could possibly make a WW2 mod for FC2 but I can't as of yet make a clean mathematical conversion from
power-to-weight to the
thrust-to-weight values used to model the aircraft in the game.
A big thumbs up from me too.
FC 2 playable on Win 7 64bit link and Achtung SPitfire..
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!211&authkey=!AIA70yu07bbZT34&ithint=file%2czip (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!211&authkey=!AIA70yu07bbZT34&ithint=file%2czip)
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!204&authkey=!AM2wO1qDn9JaHDk&ithint=file%2czip (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!204&authkey=!AM2wO1qDn9JaHDk&ithint=file%2czip)
Quote from: Boggit on February 27, 2015, 05:56:21 AM
FC2, together with Achtung Spitfire! and Over the Reich (All written by Charles Moylan@Battlefront), and published by Monarch publishing could really do with bringing up to date. They are terrific games, but as noted elsewhere are graphically VERY dated. I suspect that there probably is a decent market for that sort of game.
Quote from: TacticalWargames on February 28, 2015, 08:34:31 PM
A big thumbs up from me too.
FC 2 playable on Win 7 64bit link and Achtung SPitfire..
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!211&authkey=!AIA70yu07bbZT34&ithint=file%2czip (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!211&authkey=!AIA70yu07bbZT34&ithint=file%2czip)
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!204&authkey=!AM2wO1qDn9JaHDk&ithint=file%2czip (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C4BFD59463A5DFCE!204&authkey=!AM2wO1qDn9JaHDk&ithint=file%2czip)
Quote from: Boggit on February 27, 2015, 05:56:21 AM
FC2, together with Achtung Spitfire! and Over the Reich (All written by Charles Moylan@Battlefront), and published by Monarch publishing could really do with bringing up to date. They are terrific games, but as noted elsewhere are graphically VERY dated. I suspect that there probably is a decent market for that sort of game.
It looks like these are set to work with Dosbox. I have been running my copies on native, but videos etc no longer work. I have all the originals on disk, but the disks have a copy protection that don't work with modern dvd drives, so you can install the game but not play when you put the cd in (or certainly not when you apply the patches for the game). In the end I went to the Underdogs abandonware site to get a workable copy, although IIRC they didn't have the benefit of the patches at the time. I'm hoping that with Dosbox, these versions have been updated with the latest patches?
Do you have a link for Over the Reich? BTW, if you didn't know - you can transfer your German or British Squadron from Achtung Spitfire! into Over the Reich, so as Germans you can play from 1939-45, and 1940-45 for the Brits.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 03, 2014, 08:39:38 AM
Quote from: TacticalWargames on October 03, 2014, 12:27:25 AM
This is currently being developed...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amaris-Games-AMAC-AMAC2-4W-and-more/174453252660476)
Good to see it's still progressing. O0
It looks very impressive indeed. O0 Is it going on Steam, as I want to follow it?
Quote from: tlm70 on September 30, 2014, 07:05:18 AM
I'm also experimenting with the idea of extra gunners for aircraft. Since door gunners were a vital component to helicopter combat operations in Vietnam I've set up 'flying gun platforms' with a sprite fashioned after gun cross-hairs to serve as gunners. They follow the aircraft they are defending to shoot down attackers from the front, rear or sides (nearly 360 degrees for helicopter gunships). I think this will be a welcome solution as a tail gunner for the B-52 in an upcoming mod update. I well remember as I was testing the B-52 in version 1.1 how helpless they were to Mig attacks while on their bombing runs. It seems to be working OK in the VNAM gunships mod but it still needs more testing.
I'd just observe that the overwhelming majority of downed helicopters were due to ground fire. I imagine the M60's were great for suppression, but kills were a bonus. I wouldn't have thought that a pintle mount MG on a moving helicopter would be that effective against most MiG's - ok you might get lucky, but my money is on the MiG.
Can someone teach me the techniques for ground attack in this game? I'm having trouble hitting stuff with bombs and rockets.
What is the ideal release altitude, attack profile and vector, speed for the various weapons? Do I need to point nose down? Do they really matter in the first place? Do avionics help in increase ground attack probability of kill? The air combat is great but I fail miserably in ground attack even with A-10s. Mavericks miss a lot.
QuoteI wouldn't have thought that a pintle mount MG on a moving helicopter would be that effective against most MiG's - ok you might get lucky, but my money is on the MiG.
In the Vnam gunships mod the gunners are only for ground fire suppression. I've removed all weapons from the NVAF aircraft. It seems that the NVAF Migs rarely (if ever) operated in a close support role for the NVA/VC troops. The only time you'll ever see Migs in the game is when your helicopters are heading to the target area and you just happen to be within visual range of the Migs that are leaving the target area because they have no weapons. I initially removed the aircraft from the NVAF inventory but this caused errors that crashed the game so I had to put them back in.
I find it interesting that some helicopter gunship pilots actually preferred the UH-1 over the AH-1 because they felt that the extra crew members could help increase situational awareness and could cover more area around the helicopter with the defensive firepower of the door mounted guns.
QuoteCan someone teach me the techniques for ground attack in this game? I'm having trouble hitting stuff with bombs and rockets.
There are certain conditions that need to be met in order to make effective air-to-ground strikes (that is, actually hit targets on the ground more often) even with guided weapons.
Rockets are generally more accurate than a load of bombs but they lack the explosive firepower. They are more effective against small targets such as vehicles and infantry units. The accuracy of rockets is determined by the technology level of the airforce and the air-to-ground rating of the pilot.
Bomb accuracy is also based on the air-to-ground rating of the pilot as well as the speed of the aircraft (preferably less than 350 MPH), the pitch of the aircraft (vertical dive is more accurate than a dive), the quality of the bombsight of the aircraft and the altitude the bombs are released from (lower is better).
All air-to-ground attacks benefit from flying straight for one turn before releasing weapons. So a good (albeit dangerous) bombrun would be flying straight and slow at an altitude of 3 for one turn then in the next turn hitting the airbrakes to keep your speed low while making a vertical dive almost directly over the target. If you survive the first two turns the you've met conditions necessary for optimal air-to-ground accuracy.
Laser pods reduce the need to meet the pitch and altitude requirements for bombs but it's still a good idea to follow the above guidelines for bombing for optimal accuracy. Personally, I would rather use laser guided bombs when using aircraft like the B-1B or the F-35 to provide me with a decent chance of bombing well above the maximum altitude of AAA fire because the advanced bombsights combined with the laser guidance and a vertical dive gives me more bang for the buck.
That'd be just fine then. O0 I thought the original comment too ambiguous as you mentioned helicopters shooting down attackers, and I'm glad you clarified it, together with the likelihood of MiG attacks. I'd have thought accuracy on the moving Huey would leave a lot to be desired compared to an M60 on the ground, but would be great for suppression.
QuoteI thought the original comment too ambiguous as you mentioned helicopters shooting down attackers
Yeah, my bad. Now that I look at the way I wrote that, it really does seem to imply helicopters shooting down NVAF Migs. The opportunity really did occur for one AH-1G Cobra crew during the war but the lucky Mig-21 pilot, once he realized he was being fired upon after the first rounds missed, increased his speed to the point that he seemed to literally be flying between the Cobra's cannon shells. Fortunately for the Cobra crew the Mig was on a recon mission and had no missiles available. Although from what I've read, the AA-2 Atoll couldn't target anything below the horizon due to ground clutter interference so it probably wouldn't have made a difference.
Now Airwolf is a whole other kettle of fish (does anyone use that phrase anymore?) when it comes to helicopters shooting down Migs. In the pics posted on SimHQ I show the results of a battle where I shot down five Mig-21s (albeit flown by Angolan pilots) and managed to damage an airfield, knock out most of it's ground based air defense assets and make a safe return to base. It's really a blast to play with.
Quote from: tlm70 on March 04, 2015, 04:35:48 AM
Now Airwolf is a whole other kettle of fish (does anyone use that phrase anymore?) when it comes to helicopters shooting down Migs. In the pics posted on SimHQ I show the results of a battle where I shot down five Mig-21s (albeit flown by Angolan pilots) and managed to damage an airfield, knock out most of it's ground based air defense assets and make a safe return to base. It's really a blast to play with.
That sounds a lot of fun. Can you post the link please? BTW does the Airwolf mod play in a campaign mode, or is it just stand alone missions?
QuoteThat sounds a lot of fun. Can you post the link please? BTW does the Airwolf mod play in a campaign mode, or is it just stand alone missions?
The links are on page one (Pages: [1] 2 3) at the beginning of this post. The Airwolf mod does indeed include an edited FC2 mission builder to make campaigns to play in campaign mode.
Here's a small gameplay tip: Beware the Mig-31!!! Of all the aircraft I've fought against using Airwolf, the Mig-31 has proven to be the most dangerous adversary in the Russian inventory. I think its overwhelming speed and powerful long ranged 180 degree radar make avoiding detection and disengaging from combat extremely difficult.
Amaris is toying with the idea of 3d.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/11022587_656860547753075_6801996205362096060_o.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10838247_656514177787712_8954226948798048272_o.png)
(https://scontent-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11000620_656512627787867_6283672537990473512_o.png)
My god. That would be friggin awesome.
Very cool indeed ! I spent a lot of hours playing Flight Commander 2 - would love to see another version !