Ok fellow GH's, I'm looking for your input and arguments as to what your favorite ETO wargame is. I'm on a kick to invest the time and energy to learn a system with the intentions of first playing it solitaire and then possibly with my son or a group from my FLGS. Here's what I have and what I've looked in to and my comments on each thus far:
1. AH's Third Reich (owned). An industry standard. Somewhat rules intense but manageable. I enjoy the old PC game version (I have a game of it going now). Game components are sub-par but acceptable. I like (somewhat) the notion that a blunderous move/sequence can spoil your offensive option. I worry about the replay value however.
2. John Prados' Third Reich (owned). I love the look of the counters in this one. Don't care for the map so much though (I do have the enlarged version). Not sure what I think of the "Bucket of dice" combat system but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I think that this one got an initial bad rap because of the initial ruleset that it came with. I hear that the final rules version makes this a fairly clean system. Willing to invest the time to give it a run if there's some positive input on this title. I do like the variable events that can throw a twist on history. That is the biggest plus on this one for me.
3. World in Flames 4th Edition (owned). My buddy "Mad Russian" suggested this one so I picked up a copy. This is WiF before the madness of all of the expansions. The production spiral seems interesting and I like the 80's graphics on this one; simple yet effective. I've glanced over the rules but put it aside as it is definitely going to be a time investment and I would want this to be the one when I do decide on a system to invest my time in to. Downside is that if I do pick WiF, everybody else is going to be playing the latest edition most likely and I would possibly have to unlearn some of the system in order to get up to speed with the latest rules and just knowing what rules to use for this and later editions is already so confusing.
4. World in Flames Final Edition (owned). See above. They say that this is the end all of global conflict. It would take a large investment of time to learn. I also don't care for all the options in the rules based on what expansions you own. Just a glance at the rules has lots of rules omissions/inclusion based on expansions and so it seems that just organizing a game with an opponent would be a chore trying to decide on what rules to include. Frankly, this may be just too much of a monster to invest the time in to. I have an itch to play something ETO/Global, not a rash.
5. SPI/TSR European Theater of Operations (owned). I like that it has leaders. The very 80's graphics don't put me off, I kind of like them. I've grabbed a copy of a rules tweak as posted on BGG that adds errata and cleans up some things. This too would be a huge time investment however.
6. Hitler's War (owned). The original graphics were horrendous. I've designed and printed my own and I like what I came up with. This game is stupid simple to learn and play and it gives a somewhat accurate sense of the conflict somehow. It's also very manageable in play time. What I don't care for is the scale. I don't want something with 1000's of counters but I also don't want 10 units total for both the Germans and Soviets on the East Front. HW in Third Reich scale would be ideal and I've actually tinkered with coming up with something along those lines. Maybe I should invest the time to tweak that and design the product myself?
7. The Supreme Commander (owned). Getting in to something that is actually in print may be the way to go. This is a fairly recent design. I like the scale. I like the graphics. It was plagued by initial print issues but GMT provided a kit to fix the broken. There's just not a lot of feedback on this one on BGG so I'm cautious about spending the time to learn it in case it turns out to be a lemon. Anybody with any experience with this one?
8. Unconditional Surrender. I don't have a copy but would be willing to seek one out. This came out at about the same time as TSC and I think that hurt both titles. I hear that this is very much a political game which may or may not interest me so much. I just want to push panzer's around but I also don't want to get stuck with the same Poland-Denmark-Belgium-Netherlands-France-Russia cycle every single game (see Third Reich).
9. Other. Is there another game system worth learning? There's Proud Monster and it's companion games. Didn't care that the units have no unit designations or leaders (as I recall). There's the block games by Columbia but since I'll be playing this solitaire (at least initially), I'm not sure that a block game will work here because of the FOW.
How about you guys...what have you played and what would you suggest? If it has a PC/VASSAL component to it, that would be a plus. I own the disaster that is MWiF and could just invest the time to learn that system that way I suppose. For now, I'm enjoying 3RPC via DOSBox even though it has some bugs as far as rules implementation. So I'll open the discussion for you guys....make your arguments!
I'd go with (in order)
JP's Third Reich
Columbia's Eurofront games (the FOW isn't an issue playing solitaire; you can't use it, but you don't need it even with multiple people)
AH Third Reich
If you want a MONSTER game, consider this one
http://compassgames.com/index.php/military-simulations/the-war-europe-1939-1945.html
I've heard good things about it from folks like the "big" games
The opposite of a monster, tho still on pre-order, is this one
http://ossgamescart.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=44
One thing to consider - none of them are as well-balanced for multiplayer as the original AH Third Reich game, which can easily play 4-5 and keep them all involved. The downside is that there's a LOT of space on the east side of that map, and the German-Russian part of the war can drag/bog down with the amount of space out there.
Thanks for the reply Brant.
Wow, so JP3R huh? I have a pair of guys on VASSAL bugging me to join them on that one. I redesigned the map and AP put it in their "official" VASSAL module. I might just have to break out that rulebook.
I have seen 2WW and in fact was going to ask Jon if there was some more info/updates on that one. Looks to be like HW in a way. Not sure.
Have you tried either of GMT's newest offerings, in particular TSC? That's where I'm leaning, just to test it out at least but now JP3R is really looking tempting if that's your #1.
AH Third Reich 4th edition I bought when I was about 16 and played it a lot. My counters show a lot of ware.
Loved that game. haven't played in 30 years. Tried to get back into it but just don't have the head for the rules anymore.
I also had the PC version and though it was fun but was really bummed when they didn't fix the bugs.
I just acquired GMT's Unconditional Surrender. Love the map and counters and all the charts. Rules are clear but very different from most hex and counter games.
It took a bit of playing with the beginner scenarios but now it just all clicks. It is a really great game.
A little more political at the start. This helps with replayability as you can get some interesting non-historical alliances setting up. But once German, Britian/France and Russian are all at war the politics are over.
It has random or historical army expansions. Random or historical US entry.
Well done air and naval parts of the conflict. You need to keep supplies running to your overseas adventures. You can intercept the enemies supply attempts.
Your economy runs everything from moving, building, reinforcing, replacing, special actions.
There is strategic warfare to screw with your opponents economy.
Once you know the combat system you can go whole turns without even looking at the combat tables it's that straight forward. Land, air and naval all use the same system so you don't have to learn multiple combat systems.
It really is great, and I think much easier to learn/relearn the Third Reich.
I'll echo Brant's recommendation for Eurofront II. I'm not sure the flame will be worth the candle with respect to the supply rules -- at least as read -- but I get what this game is getting at and it feels right. And Brant's also right -- and I was quite surprised by this -- that the FoW is almost an optional rule -- not in the rules themselves mind, but in fact.
I'm very curious about the light 2P game GMT has up on P500, but will likely wait to hear a review or two.
You also forgot to ask the most important question about any game of this sort -- where do you find a group of fine, beer/scotch/whiskey-drinking fellow to play them with...and the time to get them done!
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: GJK on November 15, 2014, 07:04:20 AM
9. Other. Is there another game system worth learning? There's Proud Monster and it's companion games. Didn't care that the units have no unit designations or leaders (as I recall). There's the block games by Columbia but since I'll be playing this solitaire (at least initially), I'm not sure that a block game will work here because of the FOW.
What is your concern wrt FOW when playing block games solo, Gary? Unless you have a photographic memory, block games provide a level of FOW that can't be matched by games that use chits. There is a catch mind you. Playing block games solo+FOW requires you to play from both sides of the table.
Well I've started to dig in to the rules for TSC and I really like what I'm reading thus far. Rules are light and I can see where the game designer in fact did what he said that he wanted to do; he took his favorite parts from a number of games to come up with this one. There's some 3R4 in there with the MSP's (as compared to BRP's) but it's not nearly as complicated. Supply adds rail lines which many others don't have (I think Totaler Krieg uses them and that's one that I forgot to mention on my list). One interesting concept is Soviet production. They have a number of production centers (factories) that can be torn down and relocated as the Germans advance in order to avoid capture and conversion to German production. I'm not sure about how historically accurate that is but it's interesting to me.
The graphics are great - it's a clean looking game and the counters are "steps" where an Army will reduce to 3 corps before disintegrating. I really like that. Air and Naval is handled differently in that air doesn't actually fly from a base to assist an attack. I'm in the middle of that portion of the rules but they are handled via boxes where units are allocated (along with possible "dummy" committments) and then the counters are flipped and air/naval superiority is determined.
This might be my game but I won't know until I actually start pushing some counters around of course.
Re: Block Games. I guess I have a fear of the unknown as I've never played a block game. The 4-3-2-1 step reduction seems a bit abstracted to me but I guess I'm contradicting myself since I just mentioned how I like the step reductions in TSC. I guess seeing an Army break down to it's weaker corps components seems much more realistic to me than an army (corps?) going from a "4" to a "3". Again though, fear of the unknown as I just don't know block games.
I am curious about Unconditional Surrender as I've read some great reviews for it. I'll have to investigate it once I've played around with TSC a few times.
Some other thoughts
A World at War: Honorable mention should go to this GMT monster. Another more recent branch of the AH Third Reich tree. Covers the ETO and PTO, but there is an ETO only game. The rulebook is almost an inch thick...so more of a lifestyle choice than a game.
Liberty Roads: I own this, and have heard good things about it. But just haven't had the chance to play it yet.
Not to go off into the weeds, but if anyone wants to try ETO in WWI, the Der Weltkrieg is worth a look.
Quote from: GJK on November 16, 2014, 04:11:54 AM
....
I am curious about Unconditional Surrender as I've read some great reviews for it. I'll have to investigate it once I've played around with TSC a few times.
There's a free print n play version of Unconditional Surrender on BGG that is just Case Blue. Shows the combat system really well.
"A World at War" is a lifestyle choice not a game. I had a discount mint copy in my hands at GenCon, but, for the first time, I was concerned that my failing eyesight wouldn't let me read the rule book. Note to designers: using a font of that size with your demographics is a bad decision. I"m told there's much to love there by those that have taken the plunge, but I fear I shall never know.
"Liberty Roads" is a magnificent game if you can find an affordable copy, but, if memory serves, it doesn't have the scope you were looking for? If it is, I'll throw in a strong vote for "Battle for Normandy". I've only played a few of the smaller scenarios, but it really is a well-designed monster.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
I have both Unconditional Surrender and The Supreme Commander. I read the rules to both, but have only started playing TSC. I think the biggest reason I have favored TSC, is that TSC uses familiar concepts in a good way...at least it is that way for me. TSC feels to me like a de-cluttered version of A3R...it is not of course...just feels that way.
US is a different story. I have read through the US rules, and it was a hard read for me. US is certainly innovative, and it has gotten some good press, but I have found it harder than TSC to get my head around. I also think it is telling that US has so many play examples, learning scenarios, and the designer even re-wrote the rules in learning game order. So that has slowed my taking up US. But that is not to say I don't think there is goodness in there. It just seems to be the kind of game I'll have to work at until "I get it."
Quote from: GJK on November 15, 2014, 07:04:20 AM
6. Hitler's War (owned). The original graphics were horrendous. I've designed and printed my own and I like what I came up with. This game is stupid simple to learn and play and it gives a somewhat accurate sense of the conflict somehow. It's also very manageable in play time. What I don't care for is the scale. I don't want something with 1000's of counters but I also don't want 10 units total for both the Germans and Soviets on the East Front. HW in Third Reich scale would be ideal and I've actually tinkered with coming up with something along those lines. Maybe I should invest the time to tweak that and design the product myself?
I'm glad you mention this one. While I have affinity for Third Reich and the original World in Flames, Hitler's War is a game that I went back to again and again over the years. It was simple and easy to get into if you haven't played it in a while. I really liked that they incorporated research and development in it, as well.
I've thought numerous times of expanding the game's scope a bit so, as you said, there's not just 10 units for each side. Not too much bigger, though, but definitely add some dimensions to it. I never moved forward with it because I figured there's some other game out there probably that's doing that. But if not, maybe this is something we should work on, huh? ;)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on November 17, 2014, 07:53:12 AM
I've thought numerous times of expanding the game's scope a bit so, as you said, there's not just 10 units for each side. Not too much bigger, though, but definitely add some dimensions to it. I never moved forward with it because I figured there's some other game out there probably that's doing that. But if not, maybe this is something we should work on, huh? ;)
I actually started working on that project some time ago. HW is exactly 1/2 the scale of 3R. So what I did was take the outline of the 3R map and adapted it for use with HW. I have those graphics done and in a VASSAL module now. The obviousl thing seems to be to just double everything and that's what I was working on when I got sidetracked. I wanted more historical OOB's/unit containers and I was doing the research in to that. If everything is doubled and there's not double the Armies to fill the roster, does the scale then go down to Corps level in order to have enough units? That's what I was going with at the time and that's what I have in the VASSAL module. I can make that available to you. I'd love to get it to a stage where it could at least be playtested. I think the OOB's was my hangup so I'd welcome any input in to that.
Sure, I'd like to help however you'd like. I've got graphic design skills too just in case you want help in that regard.
Wasn't the original 3R's units Corps-level for the Axis and Army-level for the Commies?
And were the hex scales around 100 miles/hex?
Given the amount of real estate some units covered, an army per hex sounds about right. I'd suggest limiting the game to one Army-sized unit per hex to keep it simple. If you keep the original units as Army-level, allow breakdowns into Corps-sized units perhaps, to help cover large fronts? Limit the number of Corps-sized breakdowns based on nationality, though; the Germans would have the most. Corps-sized units would not be pushovers but wouldn't be able to 'hold' as many strength points as an Army-sized unit. Maybe you'd have modifiers based on the time period and the nationality (the Soviets would have limitations in their armies in 1941, for example). Axis allies like the Italians would only deploy Corps-sized units to reflect their combat 'footprint' on the board.
I dunno, just brainstorming here. Share with me whatever you have, if you'd like.
Yeah, that's good stuff. I like the Army -> Corps breakdowns. I was thinking simple: corps sized units but since those are 1/2 the scale of what HW uses, go with half the capabilities. IOW, up to 5 SP's per attribute. So we'd have twice the map in scale, twice the number of units but they would be half the strength of the full army. I think the problem that I had was that once you get down to corps level, you have so many of them in the case of the Germans...do you include them all but restrict how many corps can be built? That's stuff that playtesting is for of course.
I'll get what I have out to you via a dropbox link when I get home later.
That'll work.
I missed the other 'Hitler's War' thread you started back in 2012 and found it through here - only because I Googled 'Hitler's War Board Game Map' and came across your excellent redesign.
Can't find a suitable image of 3R though, at least not through Google, and only after a few minutes of searching. I don't want to spend too much time in the office Googling 'Third Reich' or 'Hitler's War.' :)
Quote from: Barthheart on November 16, 2014, 10:05:13 AM
Quote from: GJK on November 16, 2014, 04:11:54 AM
....
I am curious about Unconditional Surrender as I've read some great reviews for it. I'll have to investigate it once I've played around with TSC a few times.
There's a free print n play version of Unconditional Surrender on BGG that is just Case Blue. Shows the combat system really well.
Perfect...a boardgame demo...love it....thanks!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic1024641_t.jpg&hash=6695f5ea458b76962f9572d7267a9dc2c9521d64)
Totaler Krieg (both Totaler Krieg and Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg, the latter being a refined and expanded version of the former, but the core game engine is the same) - clever mechanisms, abstractions for naval and air that work really well to have the focus on the good ol' panzer pusher we all so love, politics and reinforcements/building forces nicely done via cards (that allow both a strictly historical gameplay narrative and what if scenarios), manageable counter density with still enough units to portray ETO with all the details we want, great 3 player game :)
I have read a number of good things about TK! I have the original Krieg! (unplayed) but I understand that it's quite sub-par, especially when compared to TK! That would be something to look at if I can find a good deal on a copy.
Sorry for the delay, but here's the dropbox link to what I'm working on for an "enhanced" Hitler's War. The VASSAL module is incomplete (has the original Army-Group level counters) but it does have the new map that I created which is basically the Third Reich map modified to work with HW. I've added rivers in case I want to add some rules for those.
There's a folder called "counters" where I have the artwork for the new counters. It's not corps level that I was aiming for but army (not group) level. I think that might work as there was just so many corps for Germany, America and the Soviets. These pieces need to be added to the module.
Let me know your thoughts-
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cl0uchpilz0pk6o/AABnPQ-s0idpIZ09nvTx_LOma?dl=0
I'm not all that familiar with VASSAL - so as I do not see a map graphic in your Dropbox folder, I'm assuming I can only view it through VASSAL and not as a separate image?
The counters look good, though the swastikas won't fly overseas of course. My preference is to keep it historical. I'd suggest changing some of the German counters - make the black background counters SS armies and dark gray ones regular Wehrmacht armies. Maybe that just adds a level of complexity the game does not need (I'd think SS armies would have better combat ability than normal Wehrmacht armies).
Army-level counters, now that I think of it, look like they'd work really well given the scale. Tell me how I can view the map and I'll let you know my thoughts on that for sure.
Try to unzip the VASSAL file with a zip utility and see if the graphics appear in the folder(s) inside. IIRC, a VASSAL mod is much like a zip file that the game temporarily unzips for you when you play that mod. If it doesn't work change the extension to .zip.
If that doesn't work then I'm out of ideas... :-\
Thanks, Stagger. Didn't work though. I opened VASSAL on my PC (I've had it for a long time but I've never played it), and it's giving me errors. I downloaded all the files and tried each of them but it keeps telling me...
Bad Data in Module: Global Control Marker (Basic Piece) - Map not found mapid=Main Map
Bad Data in Module: Could not find map Main Map
...so I'm assuming said map is missing somehow?
B_C
1. Take the .vmod file and change the extension to .zip.
2. Extract everything in the .zip to an empty folder.
3. There should now be a folder called "images". In there will all the graphics in the module.
Thanks, Barth. That works.
Gary, I really like the map. Looks like it's twice the size of the normal HW map? I'm counting 17 hexes for the Soviet Union fronting on their western border, whereas in HW it's only 8 hexes I think. Army units on this scale should work great.
You probably need the latest version of VASSAL B_C but I'm glad that you were able to extract the map/images. Yes, it is exactly twice the scale. I discovered that when I first started to explore doing this; I found that the HW map was made at exactly half the size of the map used in Third Reich. So I simply traced the outline of the Third Reich map (which looks much more like "Europe" than HW, even though not perfect) and then made it Hitler's War-like for use with an upscaled version of the game.
Yes, I think Army level units would work great here and a playtest to experiment with the total values that each army can hold would be beneficial. Do we keep them at 10pts per type each or limit it to 5 due to the downscaling? I think that if we basically double everything from HW (in effect halving the values for unit containers) would just work. Hopefully.
Here's a way zoomed out view of the map for those that want to see it but don't want to go through the trouble:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garykrockover.com%2Fuploads%2FHWE-MAP.png&hash=dad2b2a9d679cd0016770928d9fc586780a7fe78)
I think downscaling is appropriate, but maybe set the limit to 7 or 8. Or go a step further and limit the size depending on nationality and the time period to reflect better units. So, say the Germans would have a cap of 8 or 9 in 1941, and the Soviets a 6 or so. I dunno.
Might be beneficial to playtest it from the HW perspective and stick with 10 to see, but I'm thinking that'll be too much.
What did you use to create the maps? Looks like a vector done in Illustrator.
Nope, it's all raster in Photoshop but it prints out nicely crisp.
I like your idea on coloring the Germans their usual gray and black for SS. What's neat about HW is you can build your armies however you choose (and can afford) - so if you want the SS to be stronger units to be more historically accurate, then you simply just do that. I don't think that there needs to be a rule making them so.
As far as restricting the strength of the units (below the 10 per category as is in the RAW now), HW does that already by setting a base income level for each nation based on what it is they could produce (whether that is at all accurate or just made to fit the game I don't know). By the way, I did double the amount of production centers for each country on the map so as it is now, there's the potential for double the builds allowable so there could potentially be twice the number of armies on the map but with only up to double the points available that came with the original game to spread around. So I think that we could keep it at "10" per category per army. The reason being is that with a larger map you're going to want more armies to fill the gaps and with that limit on production points available, you're not going to have 20 "all 1o str" armies running around.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten some things about HW. I too really liked how it modeled being able to fill an army group with whatever you wanted.
You're probably right - keeping it simple keeps it more in line with the original HW, so avoid doing force multipliers for combat or different unit capacities.
Photoshop? Nice work. As you say, very crisp. I have P: CC on my work laptop and love doing large-scale images like this. :)
Awesome! I enjoy making maps and counters for games - for VASSAL modules, for print and even a computer game or two. What I wish that I had was the same skill level for programming that Gameleaper or the like does. Then I'd make a PC version of HW with AI included!
Over the last month I've been baby stepping through the Blocks in the East rules/scenarios. Currently I'm (solo) playing the small Barbarossa scenario which covers the first 3 months/turns of the campaign. Prospects are looking a bit bleak for the Germans heading into August (turn #3) and will require a minimum of four more major cities (locations marked with yellow cubes) be captured in order to eek out minor victory.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x37ZqXbE6lQ/VG_-kZ0LBsI/AAAAAAAABP8/Ij4ujsSjmqM/s800/S5001163.JPG)
I have high hopes for this title, or should I say series, as I have already invested in Blocks in the West and Blocks in Africa. If it clicks, and proves to be playable with all of the modules combined [Blocks in Europe], I can see this game being my definitive ETO wargame. I suspect I will mostly be playing solitaire. The fog of war that the block system provides should add plenty of suspense and uncertainty. Especially considering that I am unlikely to play more than a half turn per sitting. This means that any time I sit down to play it will have been 24+ hrs since I last viewed the opposing setup.
Ergonomics pose some real challenges with this title. The blocks are very dense in certain areas of the map, plus the hexes are quite small, making for quite the challenge when poking my fingers into the mosh pit to grab a tall stack. At this point I am only using the most basic rules. Once I add the advanced and optional rules the number of blocks and other wooden bits in play will increase substantially from what you see now. Finding a way to keep all those game pieces manageable is going to be to be the biggest hurtle to success. So far it hasn't been a problem. Being uber OCD certainly helps. Plus I have already incorporated some house rules with the aim of keeping the centre of gravity as low as possible on the battlefield. One HR can be seen in the photo; if a side decides to place a third or forth block in a single hex those blocks are placed horizontally on top of the bottom two tiles. This makes for a shorter stack when there are only three, better stability, with a small intelligence leak being the only impact on actual play. This seems a small compromise, and adds an interesting twist when deciding which of the units will be displayed.
I'm not ignoring the rest of the responses here and I certainly do appreciate them; not sure that a block game is something that I want but I'd be very willing to give one a try.
I've been working on updating the map and OOB/Counters for a version of Hitler's War that is basically half the scale of the original game. As discussed, the map would be exactly the size of the original Third Reich and that was what I used as a template. I'm simple and I like the map/colors of the old TSR "European Theater of Operations" game and so I borrowed that look for my "enhanced" version of Hitler's War:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garykrockover.com%2Fuploads%2FHWE-Barbarossa.png&hash=bb9b93a8726409646d3bbbc62d3b52f0071715ac)
I'm playtesting what I have so far (solo) and so far it seems to be working ok. I need to figure out if armies will advance at about the same rate as they did in the original game given the change in scale. Actually, to be anal about it, I need to know if the armies can/will advance at about the same pace that they did historically. If I meet that criteria, then I'll be satisfied.
Playtesters? I'm open for any that are intersted!
I walked a couple of miles to the game store (Riders Hobby Shop in Flint, MI) to buy 3rd Reich as a teenager when I finally had enough allowance saved. This was in the summer sometime around '82 or '83. I could have gotten a ride if I'd been willing to wait a week but that wasn't going to fly! I was practically floating home in my excitement to get it open as 3R was the next step up from Hitlers War for me. When I read the rules and tried some experimental turns I was so disappointed at the boring, bland rule set and components.
I ended up using the map much more for games that I invented myself than I ever did for 3R. Mostly, I'd use game pieces made out of modelling clay. I do seem to recall messing about with an embiggened version of HW at one point.
Quote from: GJK on November 27, 2014, 03:43:03 PM
I'm not ignoring the rest of the responses here and I certainly do appreciate them; not sure that a block game is something that I want but I'd be very willing to give one a try.
I've been working on updating the map and OOB/Counters for a version of Hitler's War that is basically half the scale of the original game. As discussed, the map would be exactly the size of the original Third Reich and that was what I used as a template. I'm simple and I like the map/colors of the old TSR "European Theater of Operations" game and so I borrowed that look for my "enhanced" version of Hitler's War:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garykrockover.com%2Fuploads%2FHWE-Barbarossa.png&hash=bb9b93a8726409646d3bbbc62d3b52f0071715ac)
I'm playtesting what I have so far (solo) and so far it seems to be working ok. I need to figure out if armies will advance at about the same rate as they did in the original game given the change in scale. Actually, to be anal about it, I need to know if the armies can/will advance at about the same pace that they did historically. If I meet that criteria, then I'll be satisfied.
Playtesters? I'm open for any that are intersted!
The 18th Army should be up with AG North. The 9th should be with 4th as part of AG Center. :D
I'm tempted to offer to help you test it. I'm in the middle of trying to learn No Retreat: The NA Front (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/120669/no-retreat-north-african-front), Pax Baltica (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/42328/pax-baltica), and get back up to speed with Wilderness War (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1822/wilderness-war). Oh, and I keep getting drawn, like a moth to the flame, to ASL. I have the rules binder and should be getting ASLSK1 in the mail tomorrow (along with Pax Baltica).
I attached the 18th Army to AG South to fill in a hole in the lines down there. That's the neat thing with HW, you can attach/detach as you wish and build your army however you envision.
Are you on my dropbox folder for ASL? I have the Starter Kit rulebook in ebook format that really makes searching and looking up rules much easier. There's also some VASL logfiles from pbem games that may help you out as well. And I'm up for a game via VASL any time that you like!
Quote from: GJK on November 27, 2014, 09:17:14 PM
I attached the 18th Army to AG South to fill in a hole in the lines down there. That's the neat thing with HW, you can attach/detach as you wish and build your army however you envision.
Are you on my dropbox folder for ASL? I have the Starter Kit rulebook in ebook format that really makes searching and looking up rules much easier. There's also some VASL logfiles from pbem games that may help you out as well. And I'm up for a game via VASL any time that you like!
I'm not on your Dropbox, but thank you for the game offer!
.... and my games were "delivered" at 7:53 AM this morning while I slept. No package greeted me at the door. No sign that the package was accidentally dropped off at the neighbors. I've contacted Fedex and it might take until Tuesday for them to contact the driver and find out exactly where he delivered it to.
There went my plans for how to spend the hours before work today. You can bet I'm going to be watching Craigslist and Ebay closely to see if some local "gamer" might be selling the same games by coincidence.
Any chance Fedex turned your package over to the local Post Office for the final deliver? They often have a setup like that and sometimes the package will show 'delivered' while the USPS sorts it. Later status might get switched to show that the Post Office has it (or it might not ::)). I've had that happen and when the Fedex folks tried to track it they also think it was delivered only to have it show up two days later with my regular mail.
I am not a big fan of Fedex myself. When things do go wrong the reps I've talked to always seem underinformed about what's happening.
Here's that link to some ASL goodness Uber:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kt7tjcajhw8dlgs/AAAgaRbdpr-R525-Qyv6WPuNa?dl=0
Still playtesting the Expanded version of HW. I'm finding that I need to double the amount of turns in order to accomplish what was achieved historically, which makes sense. This is actually really fun to play...I've had to do a number of "reliefs" in order to rescue armies that penetrated too deeply too quickly (mmmm mmmm mmmm!). HW is really the perfect sandbox for exploring all kinds of "what if's" and doing what you think would of worked better. It's so simple to play as well. Fun stuff!
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 28, 2014, 06:12:48 PM
Any chance Fedex turned your package over to the local Post Office for the final deliver? They often have a setup like that and sometimes the package will show 'delivered' while the USPS sorts it. Later status might get switched to show that the Post Office has it (or it might not ::)). I've had that happen and when the Fedex folks tried to track it they also think it was delivered only to have it show up two days later with my regular mail.
I am not a big fan of Fedex myself. When things do go wrong the reps I've talked to always seem underinformed about what's happening.
The box was at my door tonight when I got home from work. I assume now that no foul play was involved so I can stop wishing eyeball parasites on someone.
Good news!
Quote from: GJK on November 28, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
Here's that link to some ASL goodness Uber:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kt7tjcajhw8dlgs/AAAgaRbdpr-R525-Qyv6WPuNa?dl=0
Still playtesting the Expanded version of HW. I'm finding that I need to double the amount of turns in order to accomplish what was achieved historically, which makes sense. This is actually really fun to play...I've had to do a number of "reliefs" in order to rescue armies that penetrated too deeply too quickly (mmmm mmmm mmmm!). HW is really the perfect sandbox for exploring all kinds of "what if's" and doing what you think would of worked better. It's so simple to play as well. Fun stuff!
And thank you! I may, likely, will definitely ask you for a game in the not too distant future.
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 29, 2014, 09:51:19 PM
Good news!
Interestingly enough the neighbor across the street, who's outside with his little dog at least every couple of hours, said that he saw a Fedex truck in front of the house around 8 that morning. He said that he didn't notice anyone else around, though.
If you are talking about a larger-scale game then Liberty Roads. Great game, great replayability, lots of options especially for the Allied player AND *gasp* no ZOCs...
If you are talking about any ETO game then its Normandy 44.
Quote from: Pete G on January 09, 2015, 02:55:19 PM
If you are talking about a larger-scale game then Liberty Roads. Great game, great replayability, lots of options especially for the Allied player AND *gasp* no ZOCs...
If you are talking about any ETO game then its Normandy 44.
And as if on queue, an UP copy has been made available on CSW marketplace for $40. I've heard great things about this game....might have to jump on that.
Unconditional Surrender seems to be getting a lot of good comments from the guys I know that are playing it.
Good Hunting.
MR