I was just reading the Gamespot review http://www.gamespot.com/naval-war-arctic-circle/reviews/naval-war-arctic-circle-review-6372513/ on NWAC and found this line quite hilarious:
"For the most part, you have to learn missions before you can beat them."
A very sad statement on his gaming skills ???
Easy to tell this guy is no wargamer!
Well, I did get stuck on the #5 game for quite a while.
Eventually I did figure it out - sending ASW planes out to the suspected locations doesn't work on default zoom. You never catch them.
After like 12 FETHING GAMES I finally figured out that zooming in serves the subs right up to you. Then it was easy. In hindsight.
But for the most part, yeah, it's not too difficult to figure out what to do with stuff. But if you're accustomed to RTS games where the trick is to hit more hotkeys faster than anyone else those skills are not transferable.
That's a pretty decent review from a mainstream site like GameSpot. Most of the criticisms are the same one's we've all add, most notably the lack of an in-mission save. And he does acknowledge that the game can be improved with a bit of patching.
The only one I've had to play a few times in order to learn how to beat is the Viking Funeral mission where you've to to evacuate the VIP from Norway.
I made it through most of the campaign on the first attempt without needing to repeat any scenarios (except the last one).
I agree that it is a click-fest and the game tries to swamp the player with engagements instead of good strategic actions and reactions.
Quote from: Herman Hum on April 24, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
I agree that it is a click-fest and the game tries to swamp the player with engagements instead of good strategic actions and reactions.
How disappointing, I have an instore credit with Amazon, and was going to get this game. Then I read this and will probably wait and see if it improves much.
Quote from: OJsDad on April 27, 2012, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on April 24, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
I agree that it is a click-fest and the game tries to swamp the player with engagements instead of good strategic actions and reactions.
How disappointing, I have an instore credit with Amazon, and was going to get this game. Then I read this and will probably wait and see if it improves much.
I don't think I'd go so far as to say it's a "click-fest."
Yes, there is clicking. But it's not frenetic. You can speed the game up and slow it down. Assign orders and speed up the game, then slow down to issue new ones.
In this latest scenario I'm playing there is an unknown ship or ships missile spamming my ships. To take care of it you have to launch fighters and order them to shoot down the missiles with their missiles. Yeah, it's some clicking. But it's not StarCraft.
Here's the demo on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/200050/
I'm quite enjoying it. It's certainly not perfect, but is definitely an improvement over Jane's Fleet command and is a great break away from the tired Harpoon engine. Personally, I like to see the ships firing their guns, etc... Last night I even got 2 of my MIG-29's to shoot down incoming Harpoons with their cannon.
It's only going to get better and for the price you can't beat it !
Agreed. It's a decent game. Jane's Fleet Command updated, and maybe a tad lighter. The clicking isn't too much more IMHO.
One thing I miss a little from Fleet Command is the live action video cut scenes. Those were kinda cool for moving the campaign along.
Quote from: LongBlade on April 27, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on April 27, 2012, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on April 24, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
I agree that it is a click-fest and the game tries to swamp the player with engagements instead of good strategic actions and reactions.
How disappointing, I have an instore credit with Amazon, and was going to get this game. Then I read this and will probably wait and see if it improves much.
I don't think I'd go so far as to say it's a "click-fest."
Yes, there is clicking. But it's not frenetic. You can speed the game up and slow it down. Assign orders and speed up the game, then slow down to issue new ones.
Respectfully, click-fest is exactly how I am finding it. I am hammering away at the fire key in order to get my fighters to engage with guns and shoot down missiles. The more I hammer, the more I shoot down as the results are very poor if I don't click more often.
As well, I am literally fighting the interface to select the unit I want in order to issue orders. I cannot find another way to describe it. When there are a bunch of units close together, I just cringe as I try to locate the one I actually want.
I understand that some of this may be a personal style of play, but I cannot believe I am the only one who might experience it. Definitely, trial of the demo is the best way to see if the user interface is acceptable.
I tend to agree with Herman as I find that I often have to repeatedly click on enemy fighters or missiles in order to get my units to effectively engage, regardless of the settings I selected in the battle planner. However, I don't think this is reflective of the designer's intent but rather a shortcoming in the game's code and I'm hopeful that it'll be addressed in future patches. The developers seem to be quite active on their forums and receptive to suggestions from the users.
Quote from: Herman Hum on April 27, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Respectfully, click-fest is exactly how I am finding it. I am hammering away at the fire key in order to get my fighters to engage with guns and shoot down missiles. The more I hammer, the more I shoot down as the results are very poor if I don't click more often.
I'm sure you're further along in the campaign than I am so I'll simply say that I am probably playing the first scenario where I can see where that could be possible. It is annoying to see a flock of 20 missiles incoming and yet the planes will engage one and then return to patrol. There should be a setting to tell the planes to run interference against missiles, I agree.
QuoteAs well, I am literally fighting the interface to select the unit I want in order to issue orders. I cannot find another way to describe it. When there are a bunch of units close together, I just cringe as I try to locate the one I actually want.
I agree that a bunch of units close together can be difficult to get the right one. Usually I just set the speed to slow and zoom in, it isn't very elegant. I'm not overly bothered by it, but, as they say, YMMV, and legitimately so.
QuoteI understand that some of this may be a personal style of play, but I cannot believe I am the only one who might experience it. Definitely, trial of the demo is the best way to see if the user interface is acceptable.
Agreed. I haven't played the demo to see what it presents. The early scenarios don't seem to be producing some of the issues found later. Still, a demo will give some idea of the style of gameplay.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 27, 2012, 08:57:44 PM
I tend to agree with Herman as I find that I often have to repeatedly click on enemy fighters or missiles in order to get my units to effectively engage, regardless of the settings I selected in the battle planner. However, I don't think this is reflective of the designer's intent but rather a shortcoming in the game's code and I'm hopeful that it'll be addressed in future patches. The developers seem to be quite active on their forums and receptive to suggestions from the users.
Saddening.
One thing that drives me nuts is unresponsive or inactive AI, and having to micromanage them instead.
Having tonnes of missiles on screen at once really taxes the game engine. I've repeatedly tried to finish the Ragnarok Armada scenario, but the game has hung and crashed every single time (well, except the first few when my northern convoy got blowed up real good in the opening minutes of the scenario). I've got a pretty high end PC but even after dialing back the game settings and using PC optimization software, I still can't get it to run well enough to complete this scenario.
The devs said they were aware of the issue and are addressing it in the next patch, but from the way they're talking, it appears that they might be nerfing the missile systems. The dev says the slowdown is caused by the fact that each missile has its own sensor suite and they're constantly updating all contacts. I do like the fact that some missiles are "smart" and will engage a secondary target if their first is killed. Sounds like this feature may get the axe.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 24, 2012, 12:14:27 PM
The only one I've had to play a few times in order to learn how to beat is the Viking Funeral mission where you've to to evacuate the VIP from Norway.
Same here. The problem I see with this scenario is there's too much of a gap between mission orders and what's actually happening. Mission orders are largely "sail this ship and protect it." I suppose the challenge is in using your minimal assets in a way to best prepare against any number of contingencies. But that leaves a very narrow path to success. And playing the same mission over and over leads to things like gaming the Kobayashi Maru scenario. I think we all now know the real reason why Kirk needed to pull that off. No mid-game save.
I haven't played it yet, but have read some posts that suggest the first scenario in the red campaign has some similar wtf issues.
Quote from: Nefaro on April 29, 2012, 12:21:52 PM
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 27, 2012, 08:57:44 PM
I tend to agree with Herman as I find that I often have to repeatedly click on enemy fighters or missiles in order to get my units to effectively engage, regardless of the settings I selected in the battle planner. However, I don't think this is reflective of the designer's intent but rather a shortcoming in the game's code and I'm hopeful that it'll be addressed in future patches. The developers seem to be quite active on their forums and receptive to suggestions from the users.
Saddening.
One thing that drives me nuts is unresponsive or inactive AI, and having to micromanage them instead.
From my experience, micromanagement is a requirement, and in some cases because of unresponsive AI. I believe the issue identified in the post above with ragnarok is quite possibly what's causing the "overclick to engage missiles" phenomenon that others (and myself) have experienced. I think there may be some issue with targeting missiles that perhaps engages the processor for individual radars on the missile. My overclicking appears generate a buffer that will continue to pump out anti-missile missiles long after I've stopped clicking. I noticed this when I was potshotting at some missiles going by a land base which I had ordered not to autoengage.
I personally would not label it a click-fest. However, I have micromanaged every platform in every modern naval wargame I've played (harpoon, gcb, jane's, ncaw) so I have a very high threshold for clicking before I notice I'm doing a lot of clicking.
I have the same problem with tater tots.
I think there is a high degree of future development potential in this engine. I can readily identify with the missile flock - system hog lock - up. There really is a great deal going on during the heavy scenarios.
Quote from: MIGMaster on April 29, 2012, 02:48:32 PM
I think there is a high degree of future development potential in this engine. I can readily identify with the missile flock - system hog lock - up. There really is a great deal going on during the heavy scenarios.
I experienced the lockup last night playing the Jutland scenario. :(
I hope this gets fixed soon.
I launched a bear and backfire attack last night and wiped out the northern air base completely ! ;D The red arrow points to where the base should be and you can see the bombers in the vicinity.....
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1251.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh549%2FRed2six%2FWipedout.jpg&hash=6dc52d6c7daed4b07b0b80ca19e09dc86e0139cf)
Has anybody had any luck with area jamming? I've used it in a few scenarios but never noticed any appreciable effect.....
I've used the ALQ-99 Jammers while attacking a Russia CVBG and a few more missiles may have gotten through, but it could have been just better luck.
I have no idea how/if the Comm Jammers. I just fly them around and hope that they have an effect since they cannot be applied like the ALQ-99
One of my micromanagement gripes about this game is that, to preserve my ships, I need to order them to shoot their guns at the incoming cruise missiles manually. If I leave it to the computer, their reaciton is not too good.
Quote from: jomni on May 02, 2012, 10:09:02 PM
One of my micromanagement gripes about this game is that, to preserve my ships, I need to order them to shoot their guns at the incoming cruise missiles manually. If I leave it to the computer, their reaciton is not too good.
I *think* mine auto engaged, but only after I set the AI to auto-shoot enemies and clicked on the the right missile system. Many other times I've not seen it. Probably a (wait for it) bug.
I wonder whether the review in the OP was trying to articulate that NWAC is disappointingly gamey, which has certainly been my finding. I guess you'll always get this with fixed missions instead of a dynamic campaign, but there are definitely strategies that always work in missions, and you can certainly work out a walkthrough-like optimal strategy to beat each mission.
I'm also disappointed with the (lack of) AI. No matter what engagement orders you give, your units simply will not fire repeatedly unless you right-click repeatedly on the enemy unit.
As for active jamming, yes it does work. There's an early NATO mission where you pretty much have to use them, or at least I did, to prevent the enemy sinking a couple of boats. After deploying the jammer you get a yellow circle on the map showing its area of effect. During the time I had mine deployed, I didn't see a single missile launch. According to the devs on the Paradox forum they're considering implementing "burn-through" too.
It's not a classic game, but it's better than Fleet Command and I'm glad I bought it for £15. As MIGMaster mentioned, it can only get better from here. A lack of in-mission saves almost stopped me buying it though.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 04, 2012, 05:59:10 AM
I wonder whether the review in the OP was trying to articulate that NWAC is disappointingly gamey, which has certainly been my finding.
Hi Huw,
I wrote the review (so you can match the name to the forums ;) )
I was not disappointed in Naval War. Gamey? Yes, but not disappointingly so. It's intended to be a light wargame instead of a hardcore sim. More of a real-time tactical game than RTS. Some folks may have been looking for more, but this was pretty much what I expected. I found it enjoyable, even if it needed some more polish.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 04, 2012, 08:19:09 AM
I wrote the review (so you can match the name to the forums ;) )
Aha! :)
QuoteI was not disappointed in Naval War. Gamey? Yes, but not disappointingly so. It's intended to be a light wargame instead of a hardcore sim. More of a real-time tactical game than RTS. Some folks may have been looking for more, but this was pretty much what I expected. I found it enjoyable, even if it needed some more polish.
I stand corrected, sir. Just to be clear, I was only mildly disappointed myself. It's more gamey than I was hoping for, certainly, but it's still a fun game that could use a few improvements and a mission editor (promised). The genre is so horribly under-represented that I was always going to buy it anyway. Those of us hoping for more should've raised an eyebrow at the price tag; the last game I can recall that Paradox released cheap from day one was Sengoku, another solid effort that nonetheless could've been so much more.
Paradox has done the gaming community a favor by publishing this. I wish it had been released with fewer bugs, but being Paradox I have a high level of confidence that they will be squished.
I have to wonder at why there seem to be so few games representing modern naval warfare. Why don't we see more?
I really believe it's a nich culture - just like flight sims. It seems more people are into instantly accessible games like CoD. Games such as Harpoon, Sub Command, Dangerous Water, etc.... have a significant learning curve that many people don't want to bother with - pretty much the same as other wargames.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 29, 2012, 12:41:49 PM
Having tonnes of missiles on screen at once really taxes the game engine.
This has indeed been addressed in today's patch:
Quote- Updated: For missiles in groups, only one will perform sensor sweeps. This improves performance significantly when there's lots of action.
- Updated: Missiles do not check sensors against units other than target (when they have a target). This also improves performance.
I think the game is getting even worse. I just tried the new scenario 5 times and each ended in a total lockup/freeze. Looks like NWAC is destined to go down the same road/toilet as Harpoon.
This weeks Three Moves Ahead podcast talks over NWAC
http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2012/05/04/three-moves-ahead-episode-167-naval-war-arctic-circle/
Quote from: Herman Hum on May 04, 2012, 12:04:04 PM
I think the game is getting even worse. I just tried the new scenario 5 times and each ended in a total lockup/freeze. Looks like NWAC is destined to go down the same road/toilet as Harpoon.
Yes, the patch did nothing to fix the slow down/freeze issues I have been having with the Ragnarok scenario. I did find that if I turned of sounds in the game options, it ran much more stable for me. Give it a whirl.
Thanks for the suggestion. It did help minutely.
Since the latest patch, battles that once took 30mins to play in either solitaire or MP now take 2hrs+. This game has moved from simply being an unpleasant interface to being unplayable for me. :(
Wot RPS think
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/11/wot-i-think-naval-war-arctic-circle/
Never thought it was possible with any game, but NWAC is making Harpoon ANW look good. :(
Quote from: Herman Hum on May 11, 2012, 03:21:04 PM
Never thought it was possible with any game, but NWAC is making Harpoon ANW look good. :(
At least, the NWAC devs aren't berating their customers...yet anyway.