So, emboldened by the new year, I decided to do something I'd never seen through to the end, viz.: play the "stock" Case Blue scenario in the eponymous game.
I gave PanzerDe the Heer.
Now, I am not a particularly facile DC: CB player. Also, I know Doug to be a worthy opponent. I also knew that, as a matter of history, I would have to trade real estate for lives and time.
All that said, sweet, fancy Margaret but there are a lot of f-ing Germans, most of whom seem to excrete tanks.
In recent days I've taken to smoking unfiltered cigarettes made from the floor sweepings of western tobacco plants, drinking vodka distilled from tar paper refuse, and trying my hand at fashioning rifled with broom handles and the pipes that used to carry my home's water supply.
All the while the scene from "Enemy at the Gate" is in my head:
Red Army General : I carried out my orders. I sent in all of my boys. But the Germans engulfed us. They have, artillery, aircraft, tanks. And me! What did I have?!
Khrushchev: Sacred duty to resist! I have to report back to the boss. [hands him a pistol] Perhaps you'd prefer to avoid the red tape.
I'll be in the other room...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Whoa, that's ambitious! Are you doing a single player or PBEM game?
Doug and I. PBEM++
System works well...
Ja, we are enjoying our bold march into the Russian steppes! Except...boy, are there a lot of steppes. Full of Russians. I wonder if I have enough gas?
And while it's beginning to look a lot like Blitzkrieg, I'm ever mindful that at the end of this there's Stalingrad...
Jim is right, DC: Case Blue is a ton of fun, and what a great game system! Very playable and not nearly as intimidating IMHO as WitE. I really, really like what they've done with leadership in this game, and the card system adds a nice twist. At first it was taking me a couple of hours or more to play a turn, but as I've grown more familiar with the game I've managed to cut that down. I've played a couple of the shorter scenarios solo, but as with most wargames, playing against someone adds an entirely different, and much more fun dimension.
I so get your opening post Cyrano. I've not has that all consuming feel for a game for a while. Great when it happens.
I've keep looking at Case Blue- it's still in sale- and War in the East for my East Front fix.
With play by email do you get to see the opponents moves and attacks, fog of war allowing?
Quote from: fabius on January 04, 2015, 08:47:06 AM
I've keep looking at Case Blue- it's still in sale- and War in the East for my East Front fix.
Just my opinion, but DC Case Blue is a far superior game to WitE, if you want to get that Ostfront fix. Case Blue lacks some of the fine-grained realism of WitE, but as a game experience, I just don't think there's much comparison. I'll take Case Blue every time.
Quote from: sandman2575 on January 04, 2015, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: fabius on January 04, 2015, 08:47:06 AM
I've keep looking at Case Blue- it's still in sale- and War in the East for my East Front fix.
Just my opinion, but DC Case Blue is a far superior game to WitE, if you want to get that Ostfront fix. Case Blue lacks some of the fine-grained realism of WitE, but as a game experience, I just don't think there's much comparison. I'll take Case Blue every time.
I'd also like to give this one a shot but the number of units looks really huge, how long does it approximately take to finish one turn?
Now that I'm into it, probably about an hour.
Fabius -- The simple answer to your question is yes, when you download your turn from the server, you receive a series of reports regarding the past turn and that up-coming, any taunts sent to you by your opponent, and the option of watching the previous turn step-by-step. You can click each incremental action or you can just have it play out...I strongly recommend the latter as turns between Doug and I have run to 400+ steps.
Assuming you've selected FoW, it will observe all the game's FoW rules, viz.: you only get as much intel on an opposing unit as your spotting rating on a particular hex. More and better eyes = more and better information. It's interesting to watch the believed strength of a particular unit shift as you get more and more spotters looking at it.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: Cyrano on January 04, 2015, 05:49:23 PM
Fabius -- The simple answer to your question is yes, when you download your turn from the server, you receive a series of reports regarding the past turn and that up-coming, any taunts sent to you by your opponent, and the option of watching the previous turn step-by-step. You can click each incremental action or you can just have it play out...I strongly recommend the latter as turns between Doug and I have run to 400+ steps.
Assuming you've selected FoW, it will observe all the game's FoW rules, viz.: you only get as much intel on an opposing unit as your spotting rating on a particular hex. More and better eyes = more and better information. It's interesting to watch the believed strength of a particular unit shift as you get more and more spotters looking at it.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Appreciation to you and Sandman. You know I was just looking again. Your descriptions and feedback have pushed me over the edge to go try for myself. I like the idea of various levels of opponent turn playback. And taunts O0
I've actually been playing Decisive Campaigns: Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris, which is the first of the two DC games. The unit count is less dense compared to Case Blue, which is nice and a good way to get into the system. I'm not sure that it uses the PBEM++ servers for PBEM, however.
For $20 right now you get an excellent game covering Case White, Case Yellow, and the theoretical Sealion plus 4 smaller scenarios. And of course full campaigns for the invasions of Poland and France.
+1 to that, DC: From Warsaw to Paris is also a great game. No PBEM++ though, at least last time I checked. The basic game mechanics are the same (or pretty close) as DC:CB
One thing that surprised me is that the Polish campaign is a lot less of a walkover than I believed it would be. Sent me off to do some reading on it and play a number of Tiller Campaign Series scenarios set during the invasion.
Quote from: panzerde on January 04, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
+1 to that, DC: From Warsaw to Paris is also a great game. No PBEM++ though, at least last time I checked. The basic game mechanics are the same (or pretty close) as DC:CB
One thing that surprised me is that the Polish campaign is a lot less of a walkover than I believed it would be. Sent me off to do some reading on it and play a number of Tiller Campaign Series scenarios set during the invasion.
No question on the execution of Case White being more challenging then my understanding of the history of the invasion of Poland would suggest. I think for me some of the challenge is attributed to the timeline to capture 40VP, which means Warsaw and the majority of VP hexes, before 12 September. I also know that I tend to like to maximize my attacks and no leave Polish units with freedom of movement behind my lines, which most likely isn't always necessary to conduct a high speed Blitzkrieg.
DC:BtP's Fall Weiss is ultimately a scenario design decision, and I think it's a good one, viz.: it's not so much that the German's can win, but can they win quickly enough to equal the historic victory?
I think it also points up the ugly significance of the stab in the back...
Another great game.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
P.S.: I've now taken to reading my reinforcement schedule in Case Blue like a big-haired, lunatic History Channel host of a show on Nostradamus scrying it for an omen of hope...
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I have no words...
just remember, baby steppes.
Quote from: Cyrano on January 04, 2015, 09:31:50 PM
DC:BtP's Fall Weiss is ultimately a scenario design decision, and I think it's a good one, viz.: it's not so much that the German's can win, but can they win quickly enough to equal the historic victory?
I think it also points up the ugly significance of the stab in the back...
Another great game.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
P.S.: I've now taken to reading my reinforcement schedule in Case Blue like a big-haired, lunatic History Channel host of a show on Nostradamus scrying it for an omen of hope...
A Polish player would really need to focus on capitalizing on fighting a smart delaying tactic and I'd think pull forces back to consolidate around Warsaw for the enviable final push by the German player to capture that VP. I know that the AI currently has my northern forces stymied going into turn 3 slowing me down on that front, but eventually they'll break and retreat.
Quote from: Bison on January 04, 2015, 11:00:58 PM
A Polish player would really need to focus on capitalizing on fighting a smart delaying tactic and I'd think pull forces back to consolidate around Warsaw for the enviable final push by the German player to capture that VP. I know that the AI currently has my northern forces stymied going into turn 3 slowing me down on that front, but eventually they'll break and retreat.
From everything I've read this is exactly what the Poles should have done. Doing so would quite possibly caused the Germans enough casualties to have made the invasion very unpopular in Germany - though given Stalin's treachery they would probably still have lost.
However the Polish high command was trapped into the classic "we will not yield on foot of Polish soil without a fight thinking" and deployed their army too far forward and were too dispersed. Of course, it may have been politically infeasible to do otherwise. IIRC, the Polish thinking was also that this was only going to be a border war; there was a lot of sabre-rattling leading up to it and the Poles really believed they were going to bloody the Germans.
I think the gamer does a nice job of presenting the situation while providing some opportunity to retrieve it as the Poles. Historically only Guderian's troops really used Blitzkrieg tactics in Poland; the other German Corps fought a more conventional war. If the German side is played anything close to history, even unintentionally, I think the Poles have a shot.
Quote from: panzerde on January 04, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
+1 to that, DC: From Warsaw to Paris is also a great game. No PBEM++ though, at least last time I checked. The basic game mechanics are the same (or pretty close) as DC:CB
WtP does allow for normal PBEM, the old fashioned way. Attaching turns to emails, swapsies etc. Chip (from fogofwargames) and myself run a couple of fairly successful PBEM AAR's for WtP back in the day, under the Battle of the Blogs banner
We did the Bzura short scenario and the Operation Sealion scenario head to head (my links are somewhat shot to hell, since I did a site cleanup revamp - need to go through them) - the AAR table of shame, should give you access to most of the posts.
http://sugarfreegamer.com/aar/
http://sugarfreegamer.com/aar/decisive-campaigns-the-blitzkrieg-from-warsaw-to-paris/
http://sugarfreegamer.com/aar/battle-of-the-blogs/
Completely forgot about those, Spelk. I actually bought the game based on those AARs!
Quote from: panzerde on January 04, 2015, 09:40:44 PM
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I lol'd so hard at that!
I was going to ask for an AAR thread between you two, but my mind instantly patched the meme up there accordingly.
Quote from: panzerde on January 05, 2015, 05:43:52 PM
Completely forgot about those, Spelk. I actually bought the game based on those AARs!
Excellent! I liked Advanced Tactics but when Decisive Campaigns come out, and some of the wargaming folks taught me how to play operational wargames, I fell in love with it. :)
I've just re-read my Bzura one, and I'd forgotten just quite how tense it all became. The game plays out with a narrative, and these AAR's area way for me to re-familiarise myself with the rules and with the excitement I got the first time through. I'm now toying with playing WtP again..
Not sure what happened to Chip, we had a Combat Command AAR go off the rails and then he sort of disappeared from the scene.
I really need to dig in to Case Blue a lot more. I initially began a preview of it before it was released, but I had a major pc disaster and lost some of the files so had to call it to a halt. A couple of my AAR's went south during that.
Nowadays everyone seems to be AAR'ing through the art of video and fluent conversation. I can't see myself dabbling in that, I don't think I'd be able to give the gift of the gab in real time. :)
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 05, 2015, 07:17:17 PM
I was going to ask for an AAR thread between you two, but my mind instantly patched the meme up there accordingly.
We really should have done an AAR thread; this is turning out to be epic.
Of course, I'm only saying that because this is the short scenario and I'm the Germans, and we're still in the top half of July. ;D
I really don't know how to use this hosting site so my apologies in advance if I make a mess of things.
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Go here to see the whole series without going through contortions and twisting your neck:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3768892
Or go here to download it:
https://app.box.com/s/dcobsy119z53sjrb7mwr
This is a mod for Decisive Campaigns Warsaw to Paris that I more or less finished a couple of hours ago. There's a full write-up inside the notes and in theory the mod is compatible with all other mods for this game.
^ Very nice! I've been using your Case Blue mod in my current game and quite like it. Thanks!
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!!
Quote from: Philippe on January 07, 2015, 06:35:43 PM
I really don't know how to use this hosting site so my apologies in advance if I make a mess of things.
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(Click on the link for a full-sized view)
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Go here to see the whole series without going through contortions and twisting your neck:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3768892
Or go here to download it:
https://app.box.com/s/dcobsy119z53sjrb7mwr
This is a mod for Decisive Campaigns Warsaw to Paris that I more or less finished a couple of hours ago. There's a full write-up inside the notes and in theory the mod is compatible with all other mods for this game.
I should probably have set up a separate thread for this, but it seems a bit redundant now.
I've made a small change to one of the unit icons in the Unternehmen Seeloewe scenario (the graphics-modded version of the Operation Sealion scenario). The French Foreign Legion 13th demi-brigade (it isn't called that in the game) now uses a croix de Lorraine as its unit icon.
Once I'd decided that it was appropriate to use it that early on in the war, the big surprise was the color. As far as I can tell the French were pretty indifferent to the absolute color of the thing: they knew what it was by the shape. And there were even two versions of the shape, one with trefoils on the ends of crossbars and one without. The main point, since they were French, after all, was that it had to look good in context. So sometimes it was red, sometimes it was black, sometimes it was dark blue, sometimes it was enameled and light blue with a white edge, and sometimes it was red, white, and blue. But whatever the color, a croix de Lorraine is a croix de Lorraine, and everybody knows what it means.
People of the Ukraine! People of the Caucus! Cast off your Soviet chains!
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You have nothing to lose and intact jeeps to gain!
I figured I'd put the period on this one here, since so many joined us on what proved a more brief journey than I imagined.
While Rostov never fell -- I surrendered before I let that happen given how many men I threw into the maw of that City's defense -- everywhere else the forces of Mother Russia were in headlong retreat to the Volga and points eastward.
It's interesting to me that the "short" scenario was chosen as the stock scenario. I understand it's more manageable -- although no small undertaking...Doug and I, I'm certain, logged a couple man-days between us...but, despite my own inabilities, it really did seem hopeless for the Soviets. Ending as it does in August, the Soviets never get the chance to let Winter and late reinforcements make a difference.
That said, Doug played very, very well indeed...never letting me reestablish lines of defense. One of the creepiest aspects of the game was that the FoW caused his troops making their way to Stalingrad to form a shadowy "finger" like the Shadow of Mordor (except heading east rather than west) that divided the map into two pieces. I never had anything approaching the resources to pierce the "finger" and, once my counter-offensive around Rostov was repulsed by forces reallocated from the Crimea, the jig was up.
We're taking a break from DC, but I suspect we're going to give the whole magilla a go one of these days.
Great game...and made much better by a canny human opponent...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Jim is being humble. He played very well in dealing with an impossible situation. The Germans have it all their way in the first two months of Case Blue and that's what the short scenario covers. As long as the German player doesn't make any really egregious mistakes the Soviet player can do little but trade ground for time and try to attrite the German juggernaut.
Jim mounted a very spirited defense not only of Rostov but also of Voronezh. The north and south of his line held strong throughout July. I had to spend some Prestige Points to get OKH to give me four more days to take Voronezh, and only managed it right before my time ran out. It was only by breaking his lines north and south of the city and encircling the defenders that I was able to dislodge him.
I think for PBEM the short Case Blue scenario is not the best choice. If the Germans don't have to worry about the grinding battle of Stalingrad any losses they incur through August aren't likely enough to prevent a victory. The full scenario is probably more balanced and allows for a real chance at a Soviet victory.
It is a great game. Very atmospheric but playable. I definitely want to give the full Case Blue scenario a try sometime soon. If Jim takes the Germans when we do, I can only hope that I can defend as well as he did.
DC: Case Blue is now on Steam.