Let the nitpicking commence (http://www.pcgamer.com//the-best-wargames-of-all-time/)
Half the games on that list are sims, which I consider a separate category. Just because a game has combat, that doesn't make it a war game. AoW 3 is more of a war game than some of the titles on that list.
And why isn't CA represented? Certainly the first Rome or Shogun 2 deserves a spot in any list of the 20 best war games, certainly moreso than Graviteam Tactics Operation Star.
To be fair, if you read the comments section the author does say that the title of the piece was not the one he used when he submitted it.
Where? When I click on the link again the comments section is empty.
That's a pretty good collection.
way to many flight sims in that list and I generally dont consider them wargames.
leaving out War in Russia or Harpoon is a big no no!
If they're going to include Sims, then they also should include the monster strategy games like WitE and the Decisive Campaigns series. And they should certainly be included in the list along with almost any of the Total War series. I wish they had included the year the games listed premiered.
well it IS pc lamer so.... ::)
I think they should have included the CMx1 series instead of CM:BN. The latter may have nicer graphics and improved functions but the original ones were the games (along with the now neglected PC:Ostfront) that defined the genre to begin with.
Does CMBO fall within 20 years...I don't remember.
I've played/owned more of the sims than the wargames listed. Only wargame I've played was Unity of Command and I didn't like it. I own FC:RS but haven't done more than start the tutorial yet. He could have listed a lot more AGEOD games I like and play other than BOA2. War in Russia, Steel Panthers, Decisive Campaigns are all better (IMO) than what was listed.
Quote from: RyanE on March 07, 2015, 01:04:29 PM
Does CMBO fall within 20 years...I don't remember.
I don't think there is any age requirement to be on the article's list. Anyway, CM:BO is 15 years old.
Here is the post by the author, Tim Stone, from the comments section. To get the comments don't use the link; go to the PC Gamer site and look for the article.
The '20 best wargames title' isn't mine. :(
When the article was originally submitted it was titled 'Masters of War: Twenty conflict classics guaranteed to test the mettle and raise the morale of the discerning battle simmer"
There was an intro too:
"There are military truths at the heart of all the titles mentioned in the following dispatches. While mainstream gaming might be suffused with the sights and sounds of conflict, relatively few of our digital diversions encourage authentic tactics or dare to depict war machines in all their intricate glory. To encounter the exceptions - the games with history in their veins, and warrior memoirs and Jane's tomes in their bibliographies - you need to leave the beaten tracks and bright thoroughfares and head to Simulatia and Grogland.
Of course, before you leave you'll want to get inoculated against Chronic Befuddlement; the makers of top-drawer war fare aren't always good educators. You may also want to rob a bank or sell that stamp collection you inherited from Great Uncle Jeremy; some of the titles about to be lionised cost an arm and a leg and never appear in Steam-style sales.
Because space is limited in our Sd.Kfz. 251 of Supereminence, sadly, some stalwarts have to be left behind. War Thunder, Cliffs of Dover, Red Orchestra, Arma, Scourge of War... sorry, you came /this/ close to securing a seat."
Quote from: challerain on March 07, 2015, 01:29:53 PM
Here is the post by the author, Tim Stone, from the comments section. To get the comments don't use the link; go to the PC Gamer site and look for the article.
The '20 best wargames title' isn't mine. :(
When the article was originally submitted it was titled 'Masters of War: Twenty conflict classics guaranteed to test the mettle and raise the morale of the discerning battle simmer"
There was an intro too:
"There are military truths at the heart of all the titles mentioned in the following dispatches. While mainstream gaming might be suffused with the sights and sounds of conflict, relatively few of our digital diversions encourage authentic tactics or dare to depict war machines in all their intricate glory. To encounter the exceptions - the games with history in their veins, and warrior memoirs and Jane's tomes in their bibliographies - you need to leave the beaten tracks and bright thoroughfares and head to Simulatia and Grogland.
Of course, before you leave you'll want to get inoculated against Chronic Befuddlement; the makers of top-drawer war fare aren't always good educators. You may also want to rob a bank or sell that stamp collection you inherited from Great Uncle Jeremy; some of the titles about to be lionised cost an arm and a leg and never appear in Steam-style sales.
Because space is limited in our Sd.Kfz. 251 of Supereminence, sadly, some stalwarts have to be left behind. War Thunder, Cliffs of Dover, Red Orchestra, Arma, Scourge of War... sorry, you came /this/ close to securing a seat."
Ha, while a better title and fair disclaimer his original title is hardly mainstream tabloid grabbing. And a change of that could have been anticipated.
Some gems in the 20; but yes too many flight sims.
We all know that every single one of us here could put together a list of top 20 best wargames and everyone else would have problems with that list....games left out; games it should be in. there's no general consensus.
Quote from: mikeck on March 07, 2015, 01:41:38 PM
We all know that every single one of us here could put together a list of top 20 best wargames and everyone else would have problems with that list....games left out; games it should be in. there's no general consensus.
Pun of the day O0
Anyone here still play Battle of Britian II?
I've put my fair share of hours into CLOD trying to master the 109E3. But my forays online never ended well, and the single player experience is really dreadful, Team Fusion patches and all.
The idea of a solid single player campaign in Battle of Britain definitely intrigues me...
I stopped playing BOBII about a year ago as the game will no longer properly display graphics if I force AA through my video card (same with IL-2: 1946). The AI in BOBII is great! The modders did a fantastic job of tweaking the dogfighting AI.
The campaign is interesting but it's showing its age. I'd recommend getting a notepad to keep track of squadrons as you play as the in-game interface is kind of clunky.
Since when did simulation become wargames?
pc lamer strikes again but, not due to the authors fault.
I could put more holes in this list then the ones Mirths girlfriends poke in his condoms.
Quote from: jomni on March 08, 2015, 12:53:33 AM
Since when did simulation become wargames?
Apparently when RTS and FPS games did. ::) It's too bad the guys original article theme was edited in the way it was and lost the meaning he was going after. That said, I'm still happy we made the list with FPC:RS. O0
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 07, 2015, 12:56:16 PM
well it IS pc lamer so.... ::)
That was what I was thinking. Considering wargames aren't their forte, it's not a bad list and I can understand the inclusion of flight sims given that condition.
Could we do better? Of course. But that's not the point. They did a nice job.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 07, 2015, 05:35:03 PM
Anyone here still play Battle of Britian II?
I've put my fair share of hours into CLOD trying to master the 109E3. But my forays online never ended well, and the single player experience is really dreadful, Team Fusion patches and all.
The idea of a solid single player campaign in Battle of Britain definitely intrigues me...
I still remember playing Rowan's Battle of Britain #1 waaay back in the day. First time I played a sim where you flew as a Luftwaffe bomber. It was surreal to be flying in a Heinkel-He 111, Dornier Do-17 or Junkers Ju-88. I really felt hopeless at times.
I remember several years ago, PC Gamer used to have a section devoted to pc wargames. I forgot the name of the writer at the time.
I really think Norm Kroger's The Operational Art of War III should be up there.
Quote from: endfire79 on March 08, 2015, 12:31:28 PM
I remember several years ago, PC Gamer used to have a section devoted to pc wargames. I forgot the name of the writer at the time.
I really think Norm Kroger's The Operational Art of War III should be up there.
Wasn't it Bill Trotter who wrote the articles?
Yes, thanks for reminding me now, it's been a while!
The Desktop General, that was the name of the article he wrote.
Quote from: endfire79 on March 08, 2015, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 07, 2015, 05:35:03 PM
Anyone here still play Battle of Britian II?
I've put my fair share of hours into CLOD trying to master the 109E3. But my forays online never ended well, and the single player experience is really dreadful, Team Fusion patches and all.
The idea of a solid single player campaign in Battle of Britain definitely intrigues me...
I still remember playing Rowan's Battle of Britain #1 waaay back in the day.
I have strong recollections of that game. It was the first installation I made when I upgraded my PC to one that could play contemporary games (the previous one could just about manage Doom 2). I thought it looked beautiful - especially with the sky full of planes. I found it very hard to make a kill, but took that to mean that it was "realistic". The downers were looooong loading times and a tendency to CTD.
I was extremely peed off with BoB 2 since it was exactly the same game for full price. I did re-visit it recently, but it hurt my eyes and I couldn't get Freetrack to work. Now I have TIR maybe...
when your spectrum of coverage includes everything from sports games to space games to adventure platformers to Angry Birds to storytelling to war, and everything in between, then flight sims built around military hardware are going to get rolled into a "wargame" list alongside FPCRS. We care about the granularity here, because we ignore a huge swath of the "game" world.
Yet we are eclectic enough to have extensively discussed Goat Simulator in at least one if not more threads.
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 08, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
Yet we are eclectic enough to have extensively discussed Goat Simulator in at least one if not more threads.
...hardly anything discussed is actually that groggy