Worlds of Magic (http://store.steampowered.com/app/265970/) just came out of early access. Time to give it a try.
Argh. Never thought I'd actually be complaining about *too much* fantasy 4x gaming goodness at one time.
I'm still playing the hell out of FE:LH, and with both the impending release of AoW3: Eternal Lords and now WoM being officially out, it's a happy time to be a fantasy-strategy gamer. :)
That being said, I do also worry that WoM still might not be quite ready for prime-time just yet. Will be interested to hear your thoughts bbmike.
So what about all the kickstarter extra-stuff we were promised / made to pay more for?
Well, you may be right Martok. There were big issues with the game but the developers working on it. For the game seems to be running fine right now. So for it's fun. Can't compare it to MoM as I never played it. :-[
Quote from: bbmike on March 19, 2015, 02:32:35 PM
Worlds of Magic (http://store.steampowered.com/app/265970/) just came out of early access. Time to give it a try.
That's.. interesting.
Last time I played the Early Access game, two or three months ago, I figured they still had another half year to go before it'd be in release shape. Hopefully I was wrong and they crunched all the issues and additions quickly.
My email today from Kickstarter:
"Version 1.0.0
Posted by Wastelands Interactive
US
Well guys, the day has come at last. We're very happy to announce that Worlds of Magic version 1.0.0 has been released. It's been a long road guys and this is really just one of the mile makers along the way. We're going to continue to develop and improve the game as well as add more content. We've come a long way, but we plan to go a lot further before we're done. :)
You can check out the Steam Store page here:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265970
As always guys we want to thank you all! We could never have done it without you!!"
No information yet as to when Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game) backers will be able to receive our DRM-Free version of Worlds of Magic.
QuoteYou can get a steam key by shooting an e-mail to:
leszek.lisowski[at]wastelands-interactive.com
We are working on the DRM-Free version.
Physical rewards should be sent out by May.
We don't have all the digital backer rewards in place yet, but we're working on it.
Yeah, so far I like it, but I can't help but feel it might have been released a bit too soon.
I was very excited about WoM when the developers were around talking about it, but I have read many negative opinions on it. I suppose I will just wait to see how it pans out.
I kickstarted the game but chose the GOG edition...will have to wait a little bit longer.
Quote from: Anguille on March 20, 2015, 04:22:52 AM
I kickstarted the game but chose the GOG edition...will have to wait a little bit longer.
I originally chose the GOG edition as well. However, I opted into the Steam version so I could play the beta (when the Dwarves were added), so I wonder how that will work. I hope I still get my GOG version (although it won't be the end of the world if I don't); will just have to wait and see, I guess.
I have Age of Wonder III w/ all DLCs and Fallen Enchantress: Elemental Heroes w/ all DLC and I have put in 100+ hours on World of Magic. I like AoW3 the least, though I am not sure why. I like FE quite a bit, but I think WoM is going to be my favorite. It was released too soon. Game balance is lacking just a bit, especially in the beginning. A few bugs still pop up. There are a lot of features that could be added, such as research speed options, variable monsters, etc, and the UI is still a bit cranky. The team has been great about squashing bugs but have been headstrong on insisting on certain UI features, in spite of constant complaints from new and old players. All in all, I like it best of the three and expect it to only get better. I will probably play FE again, but AoW3 will soon leave my hard drive. WoM has the one-more-turn thing for me.
Quote from: solops on March 20, 2015, 11:33:04 PM
I have Age of Wonder III w/ all DLCs and Fallen Enchantress: Elemental Heroes w/ all DLC and I have put in 100+ hours on World of Magic. I like AoW3 the least, though I am not sure why. I like FE quite a bit, but I think WoM is going to be my favorite. It was released too soon. Game balance is lacking just a bit, especially in the beginning. A few bugs still pop up. There are a lot of features that could be added, such as research speed options, variable monsters, etc, and the UI is still a bit cranky. The team has been great about squashing bugs but have been headstrong on insisting on certain UI features, in spite of constant complaints from new and old players. All in all, I like it best of the three and expect it to only get better. I will probably play FE again, but AoW3 will soon leave my hard drive. WoM has the one-more-turn thing for me.
Glad to hear that. I've had the game since early access, but have been waiting to play. I do wish the graphics were better. I prefer sprites, even like Dominions 2 sprites, to indy 3d. Fingers crossed this all comes together as I would love a decent fantasy 4x. I was hoping AoW3 would be an improved Shadow Magic, but for me that fell through, and I didn't even bother picking it up.
Quote from: Dread Rlyeh on March 21, 2015, 07:04:11 AM
I was hoping AoW3 would be an improved Shadow Magic, but for me that fell through, and I didn't even bother picking it up.
AoW3 is to SM what Oblivion/Skyrim were to Morrowind: higher graphical fidelity but a step backwards in all other departments. Shadow Magic is the best game in the series by quite a margin in my opinion.
AoW3 isn't
bad, it's just not an evolution in the series either. It plays more like Warlock than AoW:SM.
The map is a bit busy, and locating threats is difficult. They instituted a real half-assed notification system recently in response top complaints. Also, figuring out which army belongs to who is almost a mystery. Like I said, some real rough spots still here.
I'm not sure that the build-out on AoW3 is any where near done yet. They've kept implementing some fairly ambitious changes (e.g., introduction of faction-specific Race relations) and unit tweaks that add flavor. I find the emphasis on combat isn't quite my thing, but it's still a bloody interesting game.
How is the PvE aspect of this game? That was one of the things that the original Master of Magic nailed perfectly, and I think it's absolutely critical to getting a good fantasy 4x game.
Not only does having lots of dangerous monsters roaming around in the early game fit in thematically with a fantasy 4x game, but it also makes for much more complicated early-game strategic trade-offs as you try to strike a balance between building up your military versus building out your economic infrastructure. I've always hated games that were about city spamming.
There are lots of sites with monsters and also monsters wondering around. I'm having a very hard time expanding. Of course, I qualify that by remind you I have never been too good with these games. :P
This game is lots of fun so far!
Quote from: solops on March 21, 2015, 09:12:01 AM
The map is a bit busy, and locating threats is difficult.
This has been my take so far as well. WoM's map has always appeared rather...cluttered to my eyes. It's nice to look at, but everything always feels jammed together somehow. I know I'll get used to it eventually, but it's probably never going to be one of my favorite features about the game.
On a positive note, the devs seem to be patching/updating the game like crazy as issues/bugs surface, so that's good to see. I'm kind of waiting for the first major flurry of patching to taper off before I really dive in again.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on March 21, 2015, 09:16:44 AM
I'm not sure that the build-out on AoW3 is any where near done yet. They've kept implementing some fairly ambitious changes (e.g., introduction of faction-specific Race relations) and unit tweaks that add flavor. I find the emphasis on combat isn't quite my thing, but it's still a bloody interesting game.
+1
AoW3's focus on battles keeps it from being my favorite fantasy 4x title, but I think it's very good at what it does.
A not so kind 'wot I think' review from RPS. I haven't played Worlds of Magic so I can't comment on whether it is fair or unfair. Curious what others have to say. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/25/worlds-of-magic-review/#more-278211
Bollocks to what RPS think. You usually find decent reviews on Steam once you scroll past the top-voted "funny" reviews. Myself, I usually view a let's play video or two before deciding whether I want a game.
Das24680 has made a lot of videos about
Worlds of Magic. Here's the first of the series:
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a go at it right now.
Read the RPS review and it just confirms what many, many people have been saying. Its needs more polish and a more intuitive UI. RPS says its MoM at its core, which is good. Wasteland just needs to put the polish on this one.
We are polishing - currently at 1.0.8
Why did you guys Choose to release and not delay to get the polishing done behind closed doors? Publisher agreements and rules?
Quote from: doomtrader on March 30, 2015, 06:54:23 PM
We are polishing - currently at 1.0.8
I am one of the kickstarter and chose GOG...do you have any ETA? Thanks
Just saw this (posted yesterday) on the Wastelands forums.
"We're doing our best to get WoM polished up before the GoG release. We decided that a slight delay was justified due to the number of unexpected bugs we've encountered. We're sorry for the delay, but there's a good motive behind it. "
I very nearly bought this this evening, but after reading around the internet about the additional polish that's required I gave it a miss for now. However, having just bought Star Ruler 2, WoM is now at the top of my wish list. I missed out on MoM and never got to play it, but everything I've read has convinced me that I'd have loved it. I will certainly pick WoM up after a few more patches. The Let's Play videos I've seen look really good.
A contrast of two reviews...
SpaceSector rates it a 4/10 (http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2015/03/worlds-of-magic-review/), and is in general pretty harsh.
Quote
The Good:
- Faction diversity is present in both city and unit design
- The 7 planes each offer a unique aesthetic both visually and aurally
- Watching your cities grow into something grandiose is rewarding
- Feels a lot like Master of Magic reborn
The Bad:
- Far too many bugs for a full release
- Combat system feels clunky both mechanically and visually
- Diplomacy is vastly underwhelming for a modern 4X game
- Lack of information makes specific game mechanics hard to understand
- AI is a one-trick pony and fails to challenge players beyond the early stages
- Exploration lacks a sense of excitement as there are few surprises
- Fails to innovate or expand the genre
Given the game's current state, I can't say it's a complete surprise. I disagree with his criticism of the game's D20 system, though.
Explorminate's review is kinder, giving it their "Consider It" rating (which means you may or may not like it depending on certain factors):
Quote
TL;DR: Worlds of Magic is an unpolished game that still manages to capture the old-school, hardcore feel and fun of Master of Magic. It is almost a pure war game in that diplomacy, quests, and storylines are largely eschewed in favor of combat and exploitation. The game truly rewards unit diversity. You aren't stuck building the same stacks of uber units over and over. As a result, players really get to see what all the eight different factions have to offer. WoM also provides an immense amount of customization and depth to explore. It's hard to imagine a game with more area to see, build, and conquer with seven different planes and maps double the size of most other offerings in the genre. The game (version 1.07) isn't completely finished and has a number of bugs left in it. These will no doubt be fixed in time, and if/when they are, WoM will rightfully take its place as the first and only true spiritual successor to the 1994 classic.
You might like this game:
If you were a fan of Master of Magic back in the 1990's
If you want a highly customizable fantasy 4x sandbox game
If you enjoy making and maintaining large and diverse empires
You might NOT like this game:
If you are in need of a polished game right now
If you love diplomacy in 4X games
If Storylines, quests, and heroic journeys are your thing
While the latter review obviously has a more favorable view of WoM, it's probably worth noting that both reviews state the game is currently buggy/unpolished, and that diplomacy is definitely lacking in its current state.
Personally, I remain optimistic. WI has been diligent in patching WoM on a regular (almost daily) basis, and I've already enjoyed what time I've spent playing the game; leader customization is a blast, and I love the huge worlds and diversity of gameplay options available. Definitely one to keep an eye on. :)
To be honest, both of those summaries make me want the game even more. Some of the pros that both reviewers listed are things I wasn't even aware of. I'm definitely buying it; it's just a matter of time and patches.
Note: Factional differentiation is something that people complain about all the time. If WoM is as diverse as it sounds I'd buy it for that alone.
A lot of the reviews seem overly harsh to me. Explorminate's review is the closest to reality IMO. I think with a little more work this will be a very good game.
Any game that flat out calls itself the true successor to MoM is bound to be judged harshly by people who are precious about that fabled game. Whatever. From what I've read - and seen on Youtube - it looks damn good. I'm not blind either, I know there are still some issues which is the only reason I haven't bought it already, but it seems fairly clear they're being addressed. It seems it's suffering from released-too-earlyitis, but hell, if Stardock can pull Elemental back from the precipice, it can certainly be done with WoM.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 01, 2015, 04:03:04 PM
....if Stardock can pull Elemental back from the precipice, it can certainly be done with WoM.
Yeah.
Elemental was supposed to be the successor to
Master of Magic, too. Brad had to give away a lot to lure
Elemental purchasers back after the disaster of its release.
Between the two, I'd say that
Worlds of Magic's release was much better than
Elemental's. It resembles
Master of Magic more than
Elemental, too.
I've never changed impressions of a developer so quickly. First I was disgusted with Elemental because, for various reasons, I'd spent close to £100 on it. It's not that it was fundamentally broken as many claim...it just wasn't really a game. It was as if they'd laid the foundation for a game but forgot to include actual gameplay mechanics. It was painful to see.
But then they went to great lengths to bring people back in, as you say Greybriar, and they made good on almost all their promises (I never did see a 64-bit executable). And now look at it. The latest iteration, FE:LH, is greatly respected by lots of people and is a bloody good game. Incredible really, and testament to Stardock's fortitude. I've seen devs completely implode under that kind of pressure in the past.
To be fair, Stardock benefited from at least a couple things: 1.) Brad being the sole owner (and thus not being beholden to stockholders); and 2.) not being dependent on their games division as their primary revenue stream. That being said, I do agree it's pretty amazing what they did to try and make things right. Perhaps just as -- if not most -- importantly (and as you just pointed out Huw), Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes turned out to be a very good fantasy 4x game, and (for most people) put the series back on track.
While the Worlds of Magic devs obviously don't enjoy those same advantages (that Stardock did), they also aren't faced with nearly the same degree of PR nightmare either. The game is fundamentally sound; it mainly just needs more tweaking/polishing/bug-squashing.
Yeah, Brad being the sole (or just majority?) proprietor of a software firm who makes enough revenue off business software that he can develop games as a hobby does give them A LOT more flexibility to get things right.
As long as their gaming division doesn't screw up like Elemental too often... I will say, I think that's the best save I've ever seen a firm make and it puts Stardock a notch above the competition in terms of how much I might trust them to do right by their gaming customers.
Quote from: Martok on April 01, 2015, 06:54:47 PM
To be fair, Stardock benefited from at least a couple things: 1.) Brad being the sole owner (and thus not being beholden to stockholders); and 2.) not being dependent on their games division as their primary revenue stream. That being said, I do agree it's pretty amazing what they did to try and make things right. Perhaps just as -- if not most -- importantly (and as you just pointed out Huw), Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes turned out to be a very good fantasy 4x game, and (for most people) put the series back on track.
While the Worlds of Magic devs obviously don't enjoy those same advantages (that Stardock did), they also aren't faced with nearly the same degree of PR nightmare either. The game is fundamentally sound; it mainly just needs more tweaking/polishing/bug-squashing.
It was also fortunate for Stardock (and those who purchased
Elemental: War of Magic!) that GameStop bought Impulse from Stardock (http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/31/gamestop-acquires-game-streaming-startup-spawn-labs-and-distribution-platform-impulse/) which brought a flood of cash into Stardock's coffers that no doubt helped pay for "the first two expansions for the game for free (http://forums.stardock.com/399482/page/4/) (as well as our normal long-term support for the game itself)."
One of my concerns about
Worlds of Magic is how long Wastelands Interactive will be able to afford to provide support for it. Constant patching costs money and if sales don't provide enough income to offset the cost, support for the game will cease. Hopefully there will be sufficient revenue to prevent that from happening.
Quote from: Greybriar on April 02, 2015, 10:09:29 AM
It was also fortunate for Stardock (and those who purchased Elemental: War of Magic!) that GameStop bought Impulse from Stardock (http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/31/gamestop-acquires-game-streaming-startup-spawn-labs-and-distribution-platform-impulse/) which brought a flood of cash into Stardock's coffers that no doubt helped pay for "the first two expansions for the game for free (http://forums.stardock.com/399482/page/4/) (as well as our normal long-term support for the game itself)."
To be honest
Greybriar, I'm pretty sure the money Stardock made off their sale of Impulse didn't affect their ability to fund FE and FE:LH one way or the other. I think they were always going to be able to make those two games/expansions regardless.
What I *do* suspect the financial windfall from Impulse's sale accomplished was that it allowed Brad to (among other things):
1.) Finally expand Stardock's games division sufficiently so that they could work on multiple titles at once (instead of just the "one and a half" like in the old days)
2.) Invest in new technology for strategy games (particularly the new Oxide Engine that's been floated about the last year or so)
3.) Invest in new studios (such as Oxide Games and Mohawk Games) that either are about taking advantage of new technology like the Oxide Engine, and/or are just trying to make new/different/fun types of strategy games.
...And who knows what else? I can hope. :)
Quote from: Greybriar on April 02, 2015, 10:09:29 AM
One of my concerns about Worlds of Magic is how long Wastelands Interactive will be able to afford to provide support for it. Constant patching costs money and if sales don't provide enough income to offset the cost, support for the game will cease. Hopefully there will be sufficient revenue to prevent that from happening.
A concern I share. I hope the revenue will be sufficient for them to be able to support the game long-term as well. For as flawed as WoM's current state may be, there are so many things it does right I'd genuinely hate to see its potential not be fulfilled.
Quote from: Martok on April 02, 2015, 01:21:38 PM
To be honest Greybriar, I'm pretty sure the money Stardock made off their sale of Impulse didn't affect their ability to fund FE and FE:LH one way or the other. I think they were always going to be able to make those two games/expansions regardless....
You are most likely correct; Stardock has deep pockets. According to MobyGames (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/elemental-war-of-magic),
Elemental: War of Magic was released on 24 August 2010, two months before Brad announced (http://forums.elementalgame.com/399482/page/4/) that
"....Until the end of THIS MONTH (October 31), anyone who purchase Elemental: War of Magic, will get the first two expansions for the game for free...." and eight months before GameStop acquired Impulse (http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/31/gamestop-acquires-game-streaming-startup-spawn-labs-and-distribution-platform-impulse/). At least the money from GameStop insured Brad's promise would be fulfilled.
From what I've seen on the 'net,
Worlds of Magic is a diamond in the rough and has the potential to become a classic PC game. I would like to see that happen.
due to some agreements we needed to release the game on date.
However we are actively working on improving the game, and I've got the feeling that we are leaning more from fixing to tweaking and upgrading, which should be a good news.
Actually the game is improved to 1.0.10 with probably 1.0.11 to be released tomorrow, and multiplayer beta (IGOUGO) to be released next Friday.
The GOG version will be released after we will implement greater zoom out, which is scheduled for next week, so I would expect GOG version within two weeks. Sorry it tooks so long but we just can't afford another bad "start".
We just want the initial experience to be as positive as possible.
Also we are planning to release Demo at some point, but I just can roughly tell it will be ready somewhere in late May.
Quote from: Greybriar on April 02, 2015, 02:35:05 PM
You are most likely correct; Stardock has deep pockets. According to MobyGames (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/elemental-war-of-magic), Elemental: War of Magic was released on 24 August 2010, two months before Brad announced (http://forums.elementalgame.com/399482/page/4/) that "....Until the end of THIS MONTH (October 31), anyone who purchase Elemental: War of Magic, will get the first two expansions for the game for free...." and eight months before GameStop acquired Impulse (http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/31/gamestop-acquires-game-streaming-startup-spawn-labs-and-distribution-platform-impulse/). At least the money from GameStop insured Brad's promise would be fulfilled.
Sounds about right. (Kudos on digging up the relevant info, btw.)
Quote from: Greybriar on April 02, 2015, 02:35:05 PM
From what I've seen on the 'net, Worlds of Magic is a diamond in the rough and has the potential to become a classic PC game. I would like to see that happen.
I most heartily agree.
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
due to some agreements we needed to release the game on date.
I'd heard that before. Something about being pinned to the release date (of March 19) because of brick-and-mortar locations in Europe?
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
However we are actively working on improving the game, and I've got the feeling that we are leaning more from fixing to tweaking and upgrading, which should be a good news.
Actually the game is improved to 1.0.10 with probably 1.0.11 to be released tomorrow, and multiplayer beta (IGOUGO) to be released next Friday.
The GOG version will be released after we will implement greater zoom out, which is scheduled for next week, so I would expect GOG version within two weeks. Sorry it tooks so long but we just can't afford another bad "start".
We just want the initial experience to be as positive as possible.
Also we are planning to release Demo at some point, but I just can roughly tell it will be ready somewhere in late May.
Good to know! Thanks for the info
doomtrader.
Good luck Doomtrader, and thanks for the info! O0
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
The GOG version will be released after we will implement greater zoom out, which is scheduled for next week, so I would expect GOG version within two weeks. Sorry it tooks so long but we just can't afford another bad "start".
Oooh, that's a nice one. Thanks! O0
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
due to some agreements we needed to release the game on date.
However we are actively working on improving the game, and I've got the feeling that we are leaning more from fixing to tweaking and upgrading, which should be a good news.
Actually the game is improved to 1.0.10 with probably 1.0.11 to be released tomorrow, and multiplayer beta (IGOUGO) to be released next Friday.
The GOG version will be released after we will implement greater zoom out, which is scheduled for next week, so I would expect GOG version within two weeks. Sorry it tooks so long but we just can't afford another bad "start".
We just want the initial experience to be as positive as possible.
Also we are planning to release Demo at some point, but I just can roughly tell it will be ready somewhere in late May.
Thanks for the info O0...i am in no hurry (even though i am looking forward to play it). I also think that i should have a physical copy in my pledge...going to be nice.
Ouch....this Gamespot review tears WoM to shreds....I haven't played the game but I'm curious as to the replies by those who have. http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/worlds-of-magic-review/1900-6416080/
You are right Rayfer, but honestly I do find a lot of bad will and this particular review as very unprofessional.
If a reviewer can't find any pros in such huge game (somehow others were able) and is focusing on bugs and describing which features are not in the game, then this means that he doesn't do his job right.
Quote from: bbmike on April 02, 2015, 03:47:56 PM
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
The GOG version will be released after we will implement greater zoom out, which is scheduled for next week, so I would expect GOG version within two weeks. Sorry it tooks so long but we just can't afford another bad "start".
Oooh, that's a nice one. Thanks! O0
Agreed.
When I tried it awhile back, the close-up zoom restriction was really in your face (literally). Will be nice to zoom out a bit further. O0
Quote from: Rayfer on April 02, 2015, 04:53:38 PM
Ouch....this Gamespot review tears WoM to shreds....I haven't played the game but I'm curious as to the replies by those who have. http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/worlds-of-magic-review/1900-6416080/
That's a very negative review. Since my DRM-Free version of
Worlds of Magic is not yet available and I haven't played it, I can neither confirm nor deny what the author, Daniel Starkey, has written. Certain sections of the review, however, seem to indicate to me that he has never played
Master of Magic. Perhaps that would explain part of his negativity.
Quote from: doomtrader on April 02, 2015, 04:59:32 PM
You are right Rayfer, but honestly I do find a lot of bad will and this particular review as very unprofessional.
If a reviewer can't find any pros in such huge game (somehow others were able) and is focusing on bugs and describing which features are not in the game, then this means that he doesn't do his job right.
I have read several reviews that say pretty much the same things are far as pros and cons, but this review does strike me as unprofessional and unduly harsh. At the same time, I don't trust any one source, especially the big sites like GameSpot. You never know if the reviewer is going easy on a game released by a big publisher who provides them with access to other things. Its not really fair that some guy, whom the game obviously rubbed wrong, can wield so much power to hurt the game.
If its any consultation, whenever I buy a steam game I read all of the steam reviews, with particular emphasis on the recent ones.
I sometimes wish companies would just stop with the 'spiritual successor to Master of Magic' claims. Personally, I don't want one. That game was awesome when it was released in 1994, but that was 21 years ago. Come up with something new, different, better, creative, imaginative and innovative. The past is gone....let it go.
I don't agree with that. There is nothing wrong with emulating a classic, Pillars of Eternity did it brilliantly. Obsidian didn't re-invent the wheel, they simply ripped off every good thing about Baldur's Gate and brought it up to modern design standards. They are raking it in with an old, but good formula.
The design of Master of Magic is a timeless blend of options and detail. Certainly by today's standard the UI would be clunky and unreasonable, but put within a modern context it would still be brilliant. WoM sounds like its having teething troubles, though.
Quote from: Swatter on April 02, 2015, 10:53:32 PM
I don't agree with that. There is nothing wrong with emulating a classic, Pillars of Eternity did it brilliantly. Obsidian didn't re-invent the wheel, they simply ripped off every good thing about Baldur's Gate and brought it up to modern design standards. They are raking it in with an old, but good formula.
There's nothing wrong with updating classic formulae. In fact, I'm loving Pillars at the moment, and played the crap out of XCOM, Given my druthers, I'd still prefer it if developers came up with fresher ideas. I'd like to see more guys out there like Vic Davis or Rod Humble who aren't afraid to break new ground, even if their games aren't 100% successful.
Quote from: Swatter on April 02, 2015, 10:53:32 PM
I don't agree with that. There is nothing wrong with emulating a classic, Pillars of Eternity did it brilliantly. Obsidian didn't re-invent the wheel, they simply ripped off every good thing about Baldur's Gate and brought it up to modern design standards. They are raking it in with an old, but good formula.
The design of Master of Magic is a timeless blend of options and detail. Certainly by today's standard the UI would be clunky and unreasonable, but put within a modern context it would still be brilliant. WoM sounds like its having teething troubles, though.
I get what you're saying swatter and part of me agrees with you....I too am loving Pillars of Eternity, which is deeply rooted in the old Baldur's Gate games. I guess what I am trying to say is we too often criticize a new fantasy 4X game for what it isn't rather than enjoying it for what it is. We too often let the past prevent us from enjoying the present.
I don't disagree with either of you. There's a blend between innovation and taking what works best. Innovation is higher risk, but when done right, the rewards are greater. My own sense is that, while there's a certain amount of innovation in the PC gaming industry today, it's modest at best. For every Endless Legend, there are 4 or 5 games like Warlock, Warlock 2, of Age of Wonders 3 that all have their selling points but not as much innovation. (and even Endless Legend only features mechanical innovations on the basic premise of city building and expansion)
10 years go, I preferred games that offered great execution around proven principles and a new wrinkle or two in game play. These days, I find myself getting tired of solid execution and wanting titles that take more risks even if they don't always work out. The most innovative fantasy title in recent years has been, I think, the Eador series, but Genesis had too crude a UI (as one might expect from a one-man effort) and Masters of the Broken World had a buggy implementation that the dev team never has been able to fix.
I'm very intrigued by this title, but I'd like to see more glowing reviews for it before I take the plunge. Too many other titles and not nearly enough time for me these days...
Aaaahhhhh......fuck it. As Jarhead would say, I broke down. The updates are coming thick and fast (one a day I gather) and it looks/sounds amazing so....I bought it.
Will post impressions later. :)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 11, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
Aaaahhhhh......fuck it. As Jarhead would say, I broke down. The updates are coming thick and fast (one a day I gather) and it looks/sounds amazing so....I bought it.
Will post impressions later. :)
come on man - post, its this or the piddling about in space one
Well I still highly recommend the piddling about in space one! This does look bloody good at first glance though. I was too tired to get into it last night but I'll be dipping in and out today. One observation I made straight away is that it isn't very forgiving when it comes to hardware requirements! I had my case fans on full blast and my GPU was still hitting nearly 70 degrees. I might try lowering the graphics quality.
But it is a beautiful game to look at. Some of the menu elements are a bit basic but in general it's gorgeous...I found myself just sitting and staring at the map. It's a world I could quite happily live in, if not for the rampaging hordes of monsters. Loads and loads of options to start the game as well, I was like a kid in a sweet shop choosing from all the different spells. I absolutely love having all those different planes to play in too.
Oh, one other thing that struck me as well was that sending out a single unit to explore is not enough! Every interactive site I found was very well defended.
Looking forward to playing more!
Wow, I'm glad I'm not alone. I think the game looks good too. A lot of people (and reviews) are complaining about how bad it looks.
Really? I understand there are some remaining issues with the game but I can hardly see why anyone would complain about the graphics - the game is really pretty in my opinion. Although I was also one of the few who didn't complain about the graphics of A Valley Without Wind, too. ;)
have watched the DAS lets play episode 1 for 60 seconds!!! im already keyed up for this - once junior has been returned i shall be downloading
Good work Geekypoos. Get Star Ruler 2 too. :)
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. I don't own this one but have an interest in it so I've watched the video review by 'Out of 8" and thought the map was, at best, unappealing. Everything seemed scrunched up and close together with little sense of distance between things. But I enjoy this type of game and may end up with it regardless!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 01, 2015, 05:49:06 PM
I've never changed impressions of a developer so quickly. First I was disgusted with Elemental because, for various reasons, I'd spent close to £100 on it. It's not that it was fundamentally broken as many claim...it just wasn't really a game. It was as if they'd laid the foundation for a game but forgot to include actual gameplay mechanics. It was painful to see.
But then they went to great lengths to bring people back in, as you say Greybriar, and they made good on almost all their promises (I never did see a 64-bit executable). And now look at it. The latest iteration, FE:LH, is greatly respected by lots of people and is a bloody good game. Incredible really, and testament to Stardock's fortitude. I've seen devs completely implode under that kind of pressure in the past.
Sorry - a bit off topic...
Whilst I like FE:LH, still think they can take it much further by providing a far better naval element. The sea takes up a good part of the map, yet it is hard to use it. I think a dlc covering the marine element would be a really great improvement to the game.
For those with the concern, v1.0.15 was just rolled out and includes a greater zoom out. I'll test it now and report back later.
Don't forget the autoscouting feature
Thanks Doomtrader!
Here (https://imgur.com/Zc1seT8) is minimum zoom as of the latest update. :)
I am really looking forward to this...and to my physical copy...any ETA? Cheers
Physical copies are going to be send on May
Doomtrader I simply cannot find the crash log on my Linux system. Where is it? I need to report a reproducible crash.
Also, I don't suppose there's any chance of upgrading a digital copy to a physical?
Quote from: doomtrader on April 13, 2015, 04:45:43 PM
Physical copies are going to be send on May
OK...thanks O0
As much as I like the idea of this game, I simply cannot in good conscience recommend it in its current form. It's pretty buggy and crashes all the time, and there are numerous other problems reported in the Steam forum.
I hope Wasteland sort it out, because when it's as polished as it deserves to be I think I'm going to love it. For now, I think I'm shelving it.
we have got just 11 crash reports last week, so if the game crashes for you constantly just send the report to us
Quote from: doomtrader on April 25, 2015, 05:49:26 AM
we have got just 11 crash reports last week, so if the game crashes for you constantly just send the report to us
I'd love to. Where is the crash dump on a Linux system? I've looked in '~/Wasteland Interactive' and ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/WorldsOfMagic/ and I cannot find it.
...a couple of free DLCs (Sorcerer Lords Pack and Titans Pack ) [almost] released for World of Magic. ...seems there may be some Steam issues getting these out.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/265970/discussions/0/617336568084416797/
Quote
Sorcerer Lords Pack
This free DLC contains five new Sorcerer Lords:
Asmodai, a powerful demonic summoner
Katya, a holy paladin
Hra'tah, a dark elven mutator and biomancer
Tangaroa, a warlord sailor
Shllix'ath, an ancient red dragon
Select them as your avatar or fight against them!
Quote
Titans
This free DLC containts Titans: legendary, powerful unique units that can single-handedly defeat whole armies. Fight them for glory and spoils of war, or try to coerce and bribe them to join your empire and unleash their might against your opponents.
For another supposedly 'spiritual successor to Master of Magic' (of which we have had many others come and go), there has been little posted here lately about his game.
It keeps crashing for me so I'm playing the waiting game. It does actually look bloody good from what I've seen of it though.
It's still being patched regularly.
Hopefully it's sorted at some point. The game looks enticing, especially with the initial ruler customization options, but I'm unsure about how the campaign map gameplay has turned out because I've not played it much yet. Been waiting for the bugs & such to get smoothed out.
Yeah, I'm kinda playing the waiting game as well. I seem to recall reading a major update is scheduled for later this summer; I plan to give it another spin once that gets released.
Quote from: steve58 on May 25, 2015, 07:16:07 PM
...a couple of free DLCs (Sorcerer Lords Pack and Titans Pack ) [almost] released for World of Magic. ...seems there may be some Steam issues getting these out.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/265970/discussions/0/617336568084416797/
Quote
Sorcerer Lords Pack
This free DLC contains five new Sorcerer Lords:
Asmodai, a powerful demonic summoner
Katya, a holy paladin
Hra'tah, a dark elven mutator and biomancer
Tangaroa, a warlord sailor
Shllix'ath, an ancient red dragon
Select them as your avatar or fight against them!
Quote
Titans
This free DLC containts Titans: legendary, powerful unique units that can single-handedly defeat whole armies. Fight them for glory and spoils of war, or try to coerce and bribe them to join your empire and unleash their might against your opponents.
Sweet! O0
Oh hi, can I play Worlds of Magic yet?
NO.
Doomtrader, are you guys aware of the reproducible CTD when scrolling the main map? I've emailed you with a log and posted about it on the Steam forum more than once, and I've heard nothing. Will I ever be able to play the game?
Ha! Two days after posting, suddenly the game works after the latest release of the beta patch! ;D
(The cynic in me suspects the fix was accidental, seeing as nobody from Wastelands Interactive has ever responded to my bug reports, but I'm not complaining right now)
Credit where it's due, then. I intend to play the shit out of this game now. :)
so its in a playble, finishable state now?
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
so its in a playble, finishable state now?
The devs don't consider it finished and I gather there's plenty more to come (including a UI overhaul if I'm not mistaken), but it's definitely playable now. I just put in a quick half an hour and had nothing but the most trivial of issues.
O0
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
so its in a playble, finishable state now?
They still have yet to make&release all those paid addons and such.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 22, 2015, 12:24:26 PM
The devs don't consider it finished and I gather there's plenty more to come (including a UI overhaul if I'm not mistaken), but it's definitely playable now. I just put in a quick half an hour and had nothing but the most trivial of issues.
Issues relating to the game, I trust you mean, Huw?
:)
Wasteland have uploaded their latest patch and summarised the improvements since 1.0:
QuoteMajor update for Worlds of Magic - 1.2.2
New patch has been uploaded so now you can update your game.
Among other, here is the list of the major improvements in the game since the release:
Improvements:
- greatly increased stability for Windows, Linux, and Mac
- GUI quality of life improvements
- greatly reduced memory usage and performance tweaks
- new save system
- localization language improvements
- sounds overhaul
- new forests for world map
- many, many fixes for spells and abilities
- tweaks to units, adding Living perk for all normal units
- diplomacy tweaks
- balance improvements
- bigger zoom out
Additions:
- Multiplayer mode
- new Tutorial
- new units
- new spells
- new heroes and many new models for existing ones
- Hot Seat for Arena
- new favorite spells tab keeping last eight used spells
- new informative tooltips on world features
- defensive buildings for each race
- free Titans DLC
- new particle effects for spells
- autoscouting for units
- quickstart mode
New units:
- Sprite
- Chimera
- Phantom Beast
- Slime
- Skeleton
- Wight
- Floating Island
- Angel
- Archangel
- Fire Giant
- Wraith
- Unicorn
New heroes:
- Verne Stargrove
- Dran
- Klickwyk
- Drax
- Guldor Zeugme
- Draylik
- Kjorgi
- Bonebasher
- Ven'dral
- Sigfrida Blackwing
- Gontar
New heroes models:
- Lady Lavinia
- Amu-Hah Shekala
- General Krull Darkheart
- Kathentira Dire
- Autumn Leaf
- Aquestrielle
- Ixi
- Pilarica
- Monica Bloodblade
- Darren Burnett
- Kelithengol
- Adalas
- Izzir the Damned
- Aledar Malar
- Cirrym the Learned
- Tulvan Dreamchaser
- Crombie
New spells:
- Blazing Barrier
- Crusade
- Thick Mist
- Gravity
- Flaming Guardians
- Wall of Fire
- Wall of Air
- Blur
- Circle of Protection
- Flood
- Dragon
- Astral Garrison
- Fire Giant
- Sprites
- Chimeras
- Phantom Beast
- Slime
- Raise Skeletons
- Raise Wights
- Raise Wraiths
- Floating Island
- Unicorns
- Angel
- Archangel
It has to be said, I haven't had a single crash since I posted a few days ago. It's very slow to start so I'm not exactly crusading around the map yet (other than with my scouts), but I'm confident that WoM is going to deliver just what I wanted from it. O0
That's reassuring, Huw. Thanks for the update. I hope it means the DRM-Free version will be out soon.
It's now listed (http://www.gog.com/game/worlds_of_magic) on GOG as "coming soon". The devs wanted to avoid a repeat of the horrible Steam launch, so they were waiting for it to be much more stable before releasing on GOG. It looks like it's imminent.
I'm defiantly keeping my eye on this one. Anyone notice that wasteland stuff is for sale over at LNL, including WOM.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 25, 2015, 04:19:38 AM
It's now listed (http://www.gog.com/game/worlds_of_magic) on GOG as "coming soon". The devs wanted to avoid a repeat of the horrible Steam launch, so they were waiting for it to be much more stable before releasing on GOG. It looks like it's imminent.
It's been listed on GOG as "Coming Soon" for quite awhile. I can understand the devs wanting to avoid a repeat of the awful Steam launch but the Kickstarter backers were promised a DRM-Free version which hasn't happened yet. While I can understand Wasteland's side, I think it is in particularly poor form for them to completely disregard their DRM-Free Kickstarter backers and release a Steam version when Steam wasn't even mentioned in the Kickstarter. When it was suggested that they give Steam keys to backers until the DRM-Free version was released, Wasteland refused to do so.
I have been patient, but it's been over two years since the first
Worlds of Magic Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game/description) ended and over four months since it was released on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/265970/). I am beginning to feel as exasperated as Asmodai over at the Wasteland forums (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11649-Non-DRM-When/page5).
Quote from: Greybriar on July 25, 2015, 08:03:54 AM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 25, 2015, 04:19:38 AM
It's now listed (http://www.gog.com/game/worlds_of_magic) on GOG as "coming soon". The devs wanted to avoid a repeat of the horrible Steam launch, so they were waiting for it to be much more stable before releasing on GOG. It looks like it's imminent.
It's been listed on GOG as "Coming Soon" for quite awhile. I can understand the devs wanting to avoid a repeat of the awful Steam launch but the Kickstarter backers were promised a DRM-Free version which hasn't happened yet. While I can understand Wasteland's side, I think it is in particularly poor form for them to completely disregard their DRM-Free Kickstarter backers and release a Steam version when Steam wasn't even mentioned in the Kickstarter. When it was suggested that they give Steam keys to backers until the DRM-Free version was released, Wasteland refused to do so.
I have been patient, but it's been over two years since the first Worlds of Magic Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game/description) ended and over four months since it was released on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/265970/). I am beginning to feel as exasperated as Asmodai over at the Wasteland forums (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11649-Non-DRM-When/page5).
And therein lies the reason I made the personal decision never to back any Kickstarter game. It's a gamble I don't care to make. I'm not anti-Kickstarter, many a good game has come out of it and I hope it continues to thrive. I just choose not to participate.
My thoughts exactly, Rayfer, I couldn't have said it better.
That's the good thing about Kick Starter, nobody forced to do it, but available for those who wish to participate. I have only backed one game and that was Twilight Struggle...still waiting for that to release but seems like they are making progress:) But I have no issue with purchasing early access games as long as I reasonably believe in the developer and I really want the game early. Love all these choices:)
I respect the publishers choosing to put critical reviews in their marketing on the Steam page -- that shows a lot of good faith transparency.
I dearly loved MoM, and have wanted a 'proper' update since those days, and while I'm not entirely unhappy with the flood of spiritual successors in recent years, some of which are good, and one of which (Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic) I've played nearly to death, neither do I feel like I have modern MoM yet. I'd pay their asking price for that. Heck, I'd even pay some extra occasionally for DLC to fill in the remaining gaps like the Gnolls and the Trolls and the Halflings!
However, I don't feel like shelling out forty dollars for a game that still needs patching for bugs every week. I appreciate the devs' hard work, but I choose to pay for a finished product that I can feel confident about being able to play without it breaking or being broken by a patch that fixed something else breaking for other players. I AM NOT BEING HYPOCRITICAL ABOUT HAVING BOUGHT MORDHEIM AND ARC SHUT UP! ::) :P
...
........
...ahem. I have already spent more than my budget, really, on early access games that, while functional, still need a lot of work. O0
I don't know why you guys are so surprised at the current state of affairs, or even continue to have faith that this will end well. Wasteland's track record is not the best. They continue to either a) release the same game over and over with a new name and only minor cosmetic changes (Time of Fury, Time of Wrath, Fall Weiss, Storm Over the Pacific), or abandon games before all the bugs have been ironed out (Strategic War in Europe is still completely broken, afaik), not to mention they had the cajones to start a second Kickstarter campaign after burning through the money from the first.
The only thing keeping me from really slamming you guys is that I was stupid enough to buy this myself when it was still in Early Access because I a)was curious, b)was bored, and c)had more money than sense. But at least I don't fool myself into believing it will ever be a game I want to play.
Who said they were surprised? And I'd prefer to believe that the only thing keeping you from slamming us is not being a dick rather than not wanting to be called a hypocrite; we're all entitled to spend our money on whatever we want.
Anyway. Personally I didn't know anything about their track record, but so far WoM has been patched regularly and the improvements have been significant.
I've never done kickstarter, but have bought into several early access games with great results. The track record is why i didn't go EA on WOM, so i'll wait and see.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 25, 2015, 11:57:54 AM
Who said they were surprised? And I'd prefer to believe that the only thing keeping you from slamming us is not being a dick rather than not wanting to be called a hypocrite; we're all entitled to spend our money on whatever we want.
Lighten up, Francis. You have stock in the company or something?
QuoteAnyway. Personally I didn't know anything about their track record, but so far WoM has been patched regularly and the improvements have been significant.
Ignorance, as they say,is bliss.
Quote from: tgb on July 25, 2015, 10:43:27 AM
I don't know why you guys are so surprised at the current state of affairs, or even continue to have faith that this will end well. Wasteland's track record is not the best. They continue to either a) release the same game over and over with a new name and only minor cosmetic changes (Time of Fury, Time of Wrath, Fall Weiss, Storm Over the Pacific), or abandon games before all the bugs have been ironed out (Strategic War in Europe is still completely broken, afaik), not to mention they had the cajones to start a second Kickstarter campaign after burning through the money from the first.
The only thing keeping me from really slamming you guys is that I was stupid enough to buy this myself when it was still in Early Access because I a)was curious, b)was bored, and c)had more money than sense. But at least I don't fool myself into believing it will ever be a game I want to play.
Hope springs eternal, doesn't it? Despite Wastelands Interactive's track record, I was willing to back them on Kickstarter despite the odds because I liked
Master of Magic so much. I would say "Never again!" but someday another developer will come along claiming his game is the true successor to
Master of Magic and I'll fall for it again.
Quote from: Greybriar on July 25, 2015, 05:34:33 PM
I was willing to back them on Kickstarter despite the odds because I liked Master of Magic so much.
Somewhat ironically, a few days ago I was on the brink of requesting a refund for this game and, never having played the original Master of Magic, I bought it on impulse on GOG to see what all the fuss is about. Then suddenly Worlds of Magic works just fine so I'm playing it instead, heh.
I should buy stock in the company and disagree with everyone who doesn't like the game!
I've put in a bit of time with Worlds of Magic over the weekend and it's finally starting to come together.
At this point my main concern is that it's very slow to start. Unit movement is so slow that there's actually a setup option to double their speed. City growth is absolutely glacial. You're constantly working with very slim margins for food and gold so growing your cities and building armies is a nightmare. You can rely on summons to a certain extent in the early game, but this will be at the cost of research and developing your spellcraft (how much mana you can expend in a turn).
So you have to spam cities to try and get that food and gold production ramped up, but to make matters even worse there are roving bands of neutrals who (in my experience) usually turn hostile before too long, so expanding your territory can be very hazardous.
None of this makes Worlds of Magic a bad game, of course, but it does make the early game very difficult and occasionally frustrating, even at low difficulty levels.
Your trump card is, of course, magic. If you choose your starting spells wisely and use your magic carefully you can make up for deficiencies in other areas. Battles you "should" lose are instead won. Garrisons are bolstered by summoned units. Cities can temporarily grow more food with the right enchantment placed on them. It works well and turns an otherwise impossible situation into a winnable one, which I guess is the whole point of the game.
It's still rough around the edges. Lots of little glitches. For example, when you're selecting a spell to cast you have to make sure the "cast" button is highlighted when you click it; sometimes you have to move the cursor around on it before this happens. Sometimes units who have move orders will need to be told where to move again, even though the path is already drawn. Occasionally some text box isn't large enough to contain its text. Stuff like that. Absolutely nothing major at all and certainly nothing game-breaking, but polished it isn't. Personally I'm extremely forgiving of this kind of thing so it doesn't really bother me at all; I'm far too distracted by the wealth of options available.
I'll post more later. At this point I'm finally ready to say that Worlds of Magic is worth buying as long as you are expecting a challenge and aren't expecting AAA-level polish.
Good to hear, Huw! -- though I'd rather wait for the UI polish. O0
Yeah, the UI issues will get on some people's tits, for sure. Do you already have the game Jason? If so, aren't you even tempted to have a little sneaky peeky?
No, haven't bought the game yet -- joked upthread that I'd rather wait than buy what's effectively an early access that still needs a lot of polishing, and then poked fun at myself for having bought Mordheim and ARK: Survival Evolved.
It's definitely wishlisted. I may give it another month of polish and buy it then.
My mistake, I missed that.
I'll be sure to post updates as the game gets patched, with my own thoughts.
Worlds of magic is 40% off on Steam this week.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 26, 2015, 06:21:58 PM
My mistake, I missed that.
I'll be sure to post updates as the game gets patched, with my own thoughts.
Please do! (Sale noted, but still passing for a while.)
I find, with games that have this much potential, if they don't bring it to life for me, they just piss me off. I'll also hold off, although if this one gets to a good place, I'm sure to pick it up!
Been looking at this one since release and couldn't pass the average reviews despite the draw from the Master of Magic past. Is it worth picking up now and risk never playing again or waiting for more patching to be able to enjoy it for long?
Quote from: kassdhal on July 29, 2015, 07:57:41 AM
Is it worth picking up now and risk never playing again or waiting for more patching to be able to enjoy it for long?
It's absolutely playable now; you can play a game from start to finish. As I've said upthread, it's really just a question of how much polish you want; there are some UI issues which make the game less enjoyable to play than it could be. I myself have a high tolerance for polish issues though, and I'm happy to play it in its current form. Nevertheless, the developers are clearly committed and the game still gets patched frequently.
My honest opinion:
- If this is your kind of game and you don't need AAA production values, get it while it's on sale
- If you have any doubts about the lack of polish, hold off for more patches but definitely keep your eye on it
Personally I don't regret buying it at full price (now that I can finally play it); replay value is pretty high and I think I'll be playing it for a long time to come.
Here's the latest from the Wastelands Interactive forums (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11649-Non-DRM-When&p=78832#post78832) about the DRM-Free version of
Worlds of Magic:
Quote from: Aaron1. The current cash flow is allowing us to continue development. (That's why new Steam versions keep coming out.)
2. You are VERY likely to see the DRM free version eventually. The real issue is the number of bugs we've run into and the time it takes to fix them. The Steam launch didn't go nearly as well as we had hoped (as many of our fans had warned us it wouldn't) and we don't want to make the same mistake with the GoG launch. I personally hate the fact that the delay has been so long, but the price for releasing things too early is just too high. To use a rather standard industry reply: "It will be ready when it's ready." (And that's what we should have been saying from the very beginning...)
It's still aggravating to be a Kickstarter backer and not being able to play the game I backed.
That quote about being VERY likely to see a DRM version eventually is really upsetting to me. I Kickstarted with the understanding there would be a DRM-free version and they haven't delivered. I would have thought a DRM-free version would have been easier to produce than a Steam one but I guess they needed the Early Access money since they kept adding features and graphics that I could have lived without. Now we pay the price of their inability to deliver what they promised because of feature creep.
I can't figure out why they are delaying the GOG release - the damage has already been done, do they really think anyone is going to think "oh look it's been released on GOG it must be the perfect now" :uglystupid2:
From my experience Wasteland games always have loads of potential (as do all games at the ideas stage) and always fall way short of meeting it.
Quote from: Wolfe1759 on August 19, 2015, 05:54:19 PM
From my experience Wasteland games always have loads of potential (as do all games at the ideas stage) and always fall way short of meeting it.
This.
Quote from: Wolfe1759 on August 19, 2015, 05:54:19 PM
I can't figure out why they are delaying the GOG release - the damage has already been done, do they really think anyone is going to think "oh look it's been released on GOG it must be the perfect now" :uglystupid2:
I think it's more from an ease of updating standpoint. If they're still stomping bugs and releases new patches, a streamlined Steam upgrade system is going to be much easier. GOG has Galaxy, but it's still Beta and not in widespread use yet. So if regular updates are releasing for the game, how many people are going to be happy to be stuck downloading new versions once a week?
Worlds of magic is 25% off ($29.99) at the Humble Store (https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/worldsofmagic_storefront) for the next 09:13:10.
Steam key.
In case anyone is interested, I just posted what follows on the Wastelands Interactive
Worlds of Magic forum (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11649-Non-DRM-When&p=78865#post78865):
Quote from: GreybriarIt has been five months since my previous post in this thread. Since then all I have seen is more empty promises from Wastelands Interactive. Not only am I getting impatient, but I am also a little fed up with the way things have not been progressing.
I backed the original Kickstarter for Worlds of Magic on 28 April 2013. That was two and a half years ago! I also backed the second Kickstarter. The game was supposed to be DRM-Free and the Kickstarter did not mention anything about Steam. Then we backers were told: "You can also give us a hand and vote for the game to help Worlds of Magic to get on Steam."
Now we, the backers who wanted a DRM-Free version, can't even play the game unless it's on Steam. Talk about broken promises.
The DRM-Free backers were promised Beta Access and only later were offered a Steam beta key in exchange for the DRM-Free version we put our money up for. And I'm not even going to mention the physical rewards the Kickstarter backers were promised and which have not been received.
This has turned into an ugly situation. At the very least, I think all DRM-Free backers should be offered a Steam key NOW as well as their DRM-Free version when the developers finally decide the DRM-Free version is ready for release.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on August 19, 2015, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: Wolfe1759 on August 19, 2015, 05:54:19 PM
I can't figure out why they are delaying the GOG release - the damage has already been done, do they really think anyone is going to think "oh look it's been released on GOG it must be the perfect now" :uglystupid2:
I think it's more from an ease of updating standpoint. If they're still stomping bugs and releases new patches, a streamlined Steam upgrade system is going to be much easier. GOG has Galaxy, but it's still Beta and not in widespread use yet. So if regular updates are releasing for the game, how many people are going to be happy to be stuck downloading new versions once a week?
This.
Steam has enabled developers to update their games as often as they want. This may be good, because hotfixes can get implemented very quickly, but it also causes issues with update frequency. We used to get one big compilation of updates every few months, but now it's every day or three with many of them for those hosted on Steam.
When I see such frequent updates for something on Steam, it's pretty clear that we're the ones testing them. They also regularly screw up Save Games. And, as alluded to above, it causes updates at other retailer venues need to be constantly downloaded or be on a completely different patch version until a compilation is made.
It may sound nuts when you hear someone complain about getting too many small patches too quickly, but I think it has caused problems with some teams constantly updating. This may or may not be the case with the WoM guys, but I've definitely seen many games which are updated every few days on Steam and I tend to just stop playing and switch to something else while the version is changing so quickly. It lasts for long stretches with some.
You guys know exactly what I'm talking about when you mention, "I'm waiting until the patch-nado is done before I buy/play". ;) A common side effect the Steam client has caused on the pc gaming market , which I don't think many saw coming years ago. :))
That said, at least a few of you have seen how outspoken I can be about DRM. Especially about anyone who
increases the amount of DRM on a product you've already purchased, which infuriated me the first time I experienced it. Hell, I still feel rather hostile about my one experience from years ago every time I think about it.
Quote from: Greybriar on September 02, 2015, 12:43:59 AM
In case anyone is interested, I just posted what follows on the Wastelands Interactive Worlds of Magic forum (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11649-Non-DRM-When&p=78865#post78865):
Quote from: GreybriarIt has been five months since my previous post in this thread. Since then all I have seen is more empty promises from Wastelands Interactive. Not only am I getting impatient, but I am also a little fed up with the way things have not been progressing.
I backed the original Kickstarter for Worlds of Magic on 28 April 2013. That was two and a half years ago! I also backed the second Kickstarter. The game was supposed to be DRM-Free and the Kickstarter did not mention anything about Steam. Then we backers were told: "You can also give us a hand and vote for the game to help Worlds of Magic to get on Steam."
Now we, the backers who wanted a DRM-Free version, can't even play the game unless it's on Steam. Talk about broken promises.
The DRM-Free backers were promised Beta Access and only later were offered a Steam beta key in exchange for the DRM-Free version we put our money up for. And I'm not even going to mention the physical rewards the Kickstarter backers were promised and which have not been received.
This has turned into an ugly situation. At the very least, I think all DRM-Free backers should be offered a Steam key NOW as well as their DRM-Free version when the developers finally decide the DRM-Free version is ready for release.
At this point, i'd be happy with a steam edition...it's been soooo long.
Just realised i can't post in their forums anymore...not sure why.
This is pretty unforgivable. I'm happy to defend the game, because it isn't as broken as some people claim it is, at least from what I've seen (there's the occasional murmur on the Steam forum about this or that which isn't generally corroborated by the community as a whole - all games have this). However if I was in Greybriar's situation I'd be absolutely furious with Wasteland at this point. The incredibly long delay between Steam and GOG releases just boggles the mind, not to mention the physical goodies promised. Greybriar, I think you're being very restrained given the circumstances!
So apparently, taking from the playbook they used for their WWII games, the geniuses behind WoM have decided to leave it unfinished, and created a new version with updated graphics and a different name (http://store.steampowered.com/app/449300/?snr=1_7_15__13).
At least they're giving it away to everyone suckered into buying the previous title. As to the rest of you - caveat emptor.
How's that DRM-free copy coming along anyway? (Sorry - couldn't resist.)
Just checked and it is in my Steam library.
This is one developer I stay away from at this point
Quote from: tgb on May 30, 2016, 12:12:49 PM
How's that DRM-free copy coming along anyway? (Sorry - couldn't resist.)
When they announced Planar Conquest on their Kickstarter page I believe they said that they'd aim to get it on GoG when the PC version is released. So...any day now!
Edit: Having said that, GoG have been pretty weird about what they allow in their store lately. I've seen several relatively commercial games being turned down for being "too niche"...despite the fact that they sell decades-old strategy games in DOSbox wrappers...
So let me get this right. WOM releases in an unfinished state with bugs and all---on Steam--and in 5 months no DRM free version for the kickstarter backers? But in that 5 months they've had time to rebrand the game-update the graphics and release under another name?
Seems to me that last bit probably took the 5 months up. in fact-Having tinkered with the kickstarter idea for Emperor's Bane--it quickly became apparant just setting that up and keeping it up to date as far as communication would so greatly eat time it would be almost impossible for a one man act to do---and getting on Steam is no easy quick thing either.
My guess is the bulk of that 5 months was marketing and rebranding---
For me I'll just self fund has I have been and though that means slow progress with keeping a day job it still is more game work time than doing a kickstarter campaign and keeping up with that. that model works ala Jeff Vogel-Spiderweb or Adam Ryland-Greydog Software---though I do not care for either's DRM ---S# and e-licience seems so contrary in today's Steam world.
Anyway--sounds like they were anything but committed to keeping their DRM free promise on Kickstarter. Wasteland is now on my DOODOO list as well.
Well...they did give this free to people who bought WoM so I'll try this before I make any judgement calls. As far as DRM free, this is on Steam so what's wrong with that? (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fshrug.gif&hash=c0775dc6a9050410ea44a188eb4e3d7cb5fec138)
Email from Wasteland said DRM free in a few weeks.
Dear Backers,
First of all I would like to thank you for your patience and apologize you for our delay.
Today we are going to release PC build of Planar Conquest, which is a new and updated version of the Worlds of Magic. Those who own the Worlds of Magic on STEAM should already find Planar Conquest in the STEAM library, if you would like to get the STEAM key, please mail me to leszek.lisowski@wastelands-interactive.com. The DRM version issue should be clear in few weeks, would it be with GOG, or to be downloaded from our server. Physical rewards should be also sent in few weeks, in this matter I should have more information next week.
At this moment I can only say that the Planar Conquest is more less the game that Worlds of Magic supposed to be.
Please take a while, try Planar Conquest and let us know about your feedback. http://store.steampowered.com/app/449300/
Best regards, Leszek and the Wastelands Team
At least Planar Conquest didn't crash on my Windows 7 PC.
Yeah, and this thread (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11817-Planar-Conquest-for-Steam-State-of-Affairs) seems to indicate the developers are trying.
Quote from: Greybriar on May 30, 2016, 06:14:06 PM
At least Planar Conquest didn't crash on my Windows 7 PC.
Will you upgrade to Windows 10 already*?
* This post was brought to you by Bill Gates. >:D
I don't know...it just seems their history with games (not just this one) is release something, support it for a short period of time, and then move on....if folks are ok with that and like what they get, then that is OK...but for me, just don't trust them at this point, but who knows, maybe they will turn a corner someday.
Yeah, I agree they don't show much love for their games once released. Storm Over the Pacific comes to mind.
Quote from: bbmike on May 30, 2016, 06:28:59 PM
Yeah, I agree they don't show much love for their games once released. Storm Over the Pacific comes to mind.
Yep, that was a good example...I was actually on the testing team for that one, exhausted me on how much work was needed....never ended up playing the game after the release:(
Quote from: bbmike on May 30, 2016, 06:15:40 PM
Will you upgrade to Windows 10 already*?
Not if I can avoid it. Right now I am considering Linux for my next computer.
Quote from: bbmike on May 30, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Yeah, and this thread (http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?11817-Planar-Conquest-for-Steam-State-of-Affairs) seems to indicate the developers are trying.
I get the impression that they tried to get WoM on GOG, but GOG refused it.
I just picked up Planar Conquest, and I have to say, to this point I like it a lot.
VERY reminiscent of MoM, which is one of my top five games of all time. OK...Railroad Tycoon 2, Civ 4, Master of Magic, X-Com: Enemy Unknown, and about a hundred others tied for fifth.
So I started a game "for real" this morning, medium map, normal difficulty, 3 planes, playing as High Men and using a pre-created Sorceress who specialized in Life (healing & buffs) magic. After 20 turns I saved with two major observations.
1) Auto explore - AI is OK, making a bee-line for any goody chests in it's sight. It ignores all other icons which is good and bad, because it ignored a "lost tribe" that gave me a population boost when it was landed on. My one niggle is that it tends to go for the coast first before working it's way inland, and I would prefer it explore the area surrounding my first city before it did anything else. Of course, if it was me, I'd prefer to go to the beach, too.
2) Casting spells (overland) - Here we have a big problem with the interface, especially for a game based on MoM. I started with a spell that doubled food production in any one city so I wanted to cast it ASAP in order to move a pop or 2 over to research or construction. First thing I discovered was that you can't cast a spell directly onto the strategic map. Here's what I had to do in order to cast the "Good Harvest" (or whatever it's called) spell:
Click spell book
Click on Good Harvest
Wait a turn for the spell to be prepared (this is standard in most games of this nature, so I'm not counting it as a strike)
Click on either Save (prepared spells can be saved to be cast at a later time. I don't know if there's a time limit.) or Proceed
Select the target from a list of cities (Remember, at this point I only have one) The game then zooms to the city on the map where I have to
Select the target AGAIN from the list.
Select CAST (finally).
Did you count the clicks? I did. 6, not counting spell prep time. This should have been done in 3 - open book, cast or save spell, click on map. There's no excuse for this.
While auto-exploring a couple of my guys open chests that gave them XP. They've gone from Lev 1 to Lev 3, and I noticed that only by accident. There's no notification when a unit hits a new level, or even what it does. I think their attack values have increased, but I can't even say that for sure.
Taxes need to be better balanced. Starting out, increasing your tax rate by as little at .5 (the minimum) doubles unrest in your cities.
I'm pretty sure I just hit a game-killing bug. In one turn the amount of mana going towards spellcasting went form +10 to -8/turn, with no indication as to the cause. The only change to the world map was the completion of an Armory, which only has upkeep in gold (supposedly).
I think I'm out for now.
This is the planar conquest version you're playing, right tgb?
Correct.
Quote from: tgb on May 31, 2016, 09:31:45 AM
I'm pretty sure I just hit a game-killing bug. In one turn the amount of mana going towards spellcasting went form +10 to -8/turn, with no indication as to the cause. The only change to the world map was the completion of an Armory, which only has upkeep in gold (supposedly).
I think I'm out for now.
Perhaps someone cast a global spell affecting mana collection?
I just finished replying over at OO, heh. Here's what I said:
Then there still should have been some sort of notification.
Actually there is a screen showing all global enchantments, and all it showed was that two "unknown" sorcerers had cast something to increase their range of vision.
I may go back to an earlier save later today and see if I can reproduce it and figure out what the hell happened.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 30, 2016, 06:21:29 PM
I don't know...it just seems their history with games (not just this one) is release something, support it for a short period of time, and then move on....if folks are ok with that and like what they get, then that is OK...but for me, just don't trust them at this point, but who knows, maybe they will turn a corner someday.
+1
Wonder how long it will take them to release Planes of Magic the next game in the "series" i.e they will release 1-2 patches for this iteration of the game, give up because it's still not really fixed but then release their next attempt at a patch as a new game.
i gave up after Storm over the Pacific, although i have a couple of others i got in bundles. Pattern seems pretty clear at this point.
Turns out it wasn't a bug after all - it was my misinterpretation of mana being used to power a spell I was casting.
I played a bit longer and may have turtled a bit too much, and wandering mobs have show up and are attacking my one city on a regular basis. I have a pretty good army garrisoned, but combat is the same lackluster affair is was in WoM, so it's tough to get too engaged.
Tomorrow is payday for me, and I hear TW:Warhammer calling my name louder and louder.
I'm glad to hear it, tgb. I have yet to play the game, and I was underwhelmed by WoM, but I really want these guys to succeed with this game. As pointed out by a reviewer on Steam, "if they win [with a good game], we both win!" I also haven't played TW:W yet, but maybe once the AC is fixed. I have heard it runs hot on Nvidia cards, so perhaps having it 84 degrees in the house would not be so helpful! :-\
Being one of the kickstarter i have now both games....but i haven't installed one yet..... :idiot2:
I want this game because of MoM but waiting for gog version, so I'm glad now I missed the upgrading and re-branding, but I still want it