Hope he gets fried
EDIT: I really hate this youtube tag. half the time seems im to stupid to make it work
The officer is being charged with murder.
take out that "S" - when the YouTube mod was written, they weren't always including the "S" in the 'share' URL on the video page.
there's supposed to be an update to the YouTube embedding mod, but I'm trying to wait to update a few things at once, rather than piecemeal.
I haven't done anything resembling "research", but simply as an observer I feel the quality of our police forces in general have been diluted since 9/11 with the expansion of Homeland Security and the TSA. More bodies equals more people with badges and guns, resulting in lesser standards the further down the totem pole you go. The end result is police departments taking on people that wouldn't have made the grade a decade ago.
Couple this with stories of veteran officers retiring and their own comments on how police training has devolved toward aggressive tactics, throw in military grade equipment and then for good measure give every citizen a camera and suddenly the rock has been turned over to show what's beneath.
I support law enforcement and always have. I have several family members who have served, including my great grandfather with the Texas Rangers. But I have also personally known dirty, scary cops; cops who admitted planting evidence, cops with a huge chip on their shoulder and the temperament of a pit bull on crack.
I'm not labeling everyone, my personal interactions with the police have been overall positive. But this video shows clearly how badly things can go wrong during a single encounter with a bad cop. The police have to do a better job of policing themselves. Body cams, greater public awareness of the problem and less tolerance by our courts and juries of rogue police officers and departments are needed to protect both citizens as well as the good officers who don't like this behavior either but are forced to go along by the blue brotherhood.
FYI this is FAR from the only video of rogue police in action. There are more than a few websites dedicated to bringing these incidents to light.
I'm going to say it, and I might catch hell for it, but here goes:
I have zero sympathy for anyone that gets blasted by cops for NOT doing what the cop tells them to. Even if you're in the absolute right and the cop is in the absolute wrong, when the cop tells you to do something, it better be "yes sir" or "yes ma'am" and your ass better comply with them. It will get sorted out.
I don't know what compunction or belief system is in place to make someone not comply and then wonder why they got tasered, shot, run over, whatever. I can't say with absolute certainty, either, that this idiot of a cop would not have killed the guy if he DID comply, but I'm about 98% certain this dead guy would be alive if he just went to ground and said "yes sir" and did what he was told to do.
That's not to say the cop was right. Absolutely not. I'm a huge supporter of police and have likewise known many of them (I almost became one myself, held back due to crappy eyes). Some were great, some were asshats, some had no business carrying a gun. I cannot fathom a reason for putting eight rounds into a guy's back. The cop is getting indicted...good. He deserves it. This dude couldn't have gotten far lumbering along as he was; he could easily have been caught up with and put to ground.
But as I said...do what the cop tells you. There's likely a much better chance you'll be breathing at the end of the encounter.
You shouldn't have to fear for your life if compliance isn't absolutely 100%.
I get what you're saying and in the couple of encounters I have had with law enforcement in my life, I was very careful in my compliance to avoid finding myself with my face in the pavement or worse.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on April 09, 2015, 11:58:31 AM
I'm going to say it, and I might catch hell for it, but here goes:
I have zero sympathy for anyone that gets blasted by cops for NOT doing what the cop tells them to. Even if you're in the absolute right and the cop is in the absolute wrong, when the cop tells you to do something, it better be "yes sir" or "yes ma'am" and your ass better comply with them. It will get sorted out.
I don't know what compunction or belief system is in place to make someone not comply and then wonder why they got tasered, shot, run over, whatever. I can't say with absolute certainty, either, that this idiot of a cop would not have killed the guy if he DID comply, but I'm about 98% certain this dead guy would be alive if he just went to ground and said "yes sir" and did what he was told to do.
That's not to say the cop was right. Absolutely not. I'm a huge supporter of police and have likewise known many of them (I almost became one myself, held back due to crappy eyes). Some were great, some were asshats, some had no business carrying a gun. I cannot fathom a reason for putting eight rounds into a guy's back. The cop is getting indicted...good. He deserves it. This dude couldn't have gotten far lumbering along as he was; he could easily have been caught up with and put to ground.
But as I said...do what the cop tells you. There's likely a much better chance you'll be breathing at the end of the encounter.
I'm sorry....I hear you but it sounds entirely too much like the city councilman in Charlotte who said the policeman should be supported until proven otherwise by a jury. Wearing a badge is an obligation as well as a privilege. Compliance with lawful orders is always the smart route to take, however this very same officer had prior complaints lodged over excessive force and taser use. The department ignored numerous witnesses who backed the taser complainant in that incident and did not investigate the officer. The department and the city have a share of the blame in this incident.
Long story short, I'm with Mirth here. You shouldn't have to fear for your life if compliance isn't absolutely 100%. This wouldn't be a story if the officer had simply subdued him.
I'm not saying the cop should be unquestionably supported. They're human, so they do dumb human things. They are far from infallible.
You're both right about lack of compliance and fearing for your life. But NOT 100% complying with a cop is just asking for f@cking trouble, BECAUSE there are cops that are asshats.
Since this guy was pulled over for a broken taillight, there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be alive today. It's a simple situation requiring a simple fix. Most likely, just a warning from the officer. At absolute WORST, a ticket*. Not a shooting death. As I said I'm not condoning the cop's actions at all. Since the guy was out of his car and pretty far along into a grassy area I'm pretty sure he was not complying with the officer from the get go. That does not mean he deserved to be shot. But if he had listened, he wouldn't be dead.
I know my argument is not totally in the realm of what's right, here. I'm just saying something I'm not hearing anyone else saying. Don't run. Don't fight. Don't resist. Don't use harsh language. Don't even breathe funny. Just do as you're told and you'll very likely live to see another day. Run, fight, resist, curse out the cops, and you're probably going to escalate a f@cking simple situation into something that causes a tragedy like this.
*Of course, it's possible this guy had a warrant on him, and that's why he ran, but still, compliance means jail, not a coffin.
Hey I'm realist about it. I'd have been nothing but "Yes sir. No sir. Thank you sir, may I have another?"
Still, this seems like a clear case of a cop murdering a citizen. If the victim hadn't run, would he still be alive? Maybe. Should he have been gunned down in the back like that? Based on that video, absolutely not.
Quote from: mirth on April 09, 2015, 12:52:15 PM
Still, this seems like a clear case of a cop murdering a citizen. If the victim hadn't run, would he still be alive? Maybe. Should he have been gunned down in the back like that? Based on that video, absolutely not.
I fully agree. I hope they throw the book at that cop. The police should always have a responsibility to citizens, regardless of how smart or dumb they are. People often need protection from themselves doing stupid shit. This guy did something completely stupid, but didn't deserve to be shot in the back.
Apropos of nothing, it seemed to me the cop missed the first 6 or 7 shots and finally got him with the last two or last one.
I hate it when we agree on stuff. No fun at all :P
I'm just trying to bring up another point of view.
Yes, but you're so damn civil about it!
Quote from: mirth on April 09, 2015, 01:08:32 PM
Yes, but you're so damn civil about it!
I know. Isn't that damned annoying???
8)
Quote from: Steelgrave on April 09, 2015, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: mirth on April 09, 2015, 01:08:32 PM
Yes, but you're so damn civil about it!
I know. Isn't that damned annoying???
8)
It's really starting to piss me off! :crazy2:
F*CK YOU. TEE HEE!
That's better. The TEEHEE was uncalled for.
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Hell dude, my last f*ck set sail a long time ago. It must be further out than Voyager 1.
Hopefully this restores faith in the police:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CATl3HYXIAAME2d.jpg:large)
^Makes me want to comply 100%.
That cop will be lucky if he gets off without the death penalty. That was pretty blatantly murder.
That one part where he bends over...the camera moves off of him...then he walks over and drops the tazer by the body. Was he bending over and wiping prints off the taser? Just speculation on my part with that one.
Wouldn't the taser have a serial number that could be traced back to the cop?
Anyway, based on that video, this cop is in for a really bad time.
I heard a cop speculate that he was just trying to preserve the scene by keeping the taser close to the victim, but that sounded like BS to me. I dunno.
This cop is screwed. I don't know what was going through his head. The black guy should not have run, but, like others have said, that's no reason for him to be shot down. I also think that if the incident was not recorded on video, the cop would most likely be free right now.
Looks like the Stazi in North America.
The guy was a fool for running. I do belive running is not a capital offense. A tackle, one punch before cuffing would have been ok. Any more is mad dogs looking for an excuse to beat on people. 8 shots in the back at 30ft is pure murder. I wonder how many officers of various types are so salivating over the chance to be the big hero that takes down king bad guy that they just start 'shoot now, let the paperwork will sort them out.'
Its a slippery slope for people with a gun to become the oppressors. Many countries have gone down that path, not by accident. It was s deliberate decision to get tough on crime or minorities or foreign subversives. That way lies hell.
Quote from: jejo68 on April 09, 2015, 10:45:11 AM
Hope he gets fried
Well, the officer, Michael T. Slager, is being charged with murder according to
The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-is-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html?_r=0).
this was released yesterday through different media
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11102685_1040255622655769_4243132022074799933_n.png?oh=6ad6750d1ee93d7db3f7e4e34ecc64c2&oe=5598763A)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 10, 2015, 09:20:55 AM
this was released yesterday through different media
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11102685_1040255622655769_4243132022074799933_n.png?oh=6ad6750d1ee93d7db3f7e4e34ecc64c2&oe=5598763A)
Amen.
I don't think you need to be a "professional race agitator" to be appalled by what was shown in that video.
Quote from: mirth on April 10, 2015, 10:44:31 AM
I don't think you need to be a "professional race agitator" to be appalled by what was shown in that video.
Agreed. Very poor choice of words. He would have been better served talking about what can be done to avoid such a tragedy in the future.
I think that's already happening.
Quote from: mirth on April 10, 2015, 10:44:31 AM
I don't think you need to be a "professional race agitator" to be appalled by what was shown in that video.
I agree, but I don't think that's intended audience.
I read a report this morning that the victim's family has asked specifically that Al Shaprton not show up and stir up another Ferguson. That is who I think it is intended for. Could have been written better, but I suspect there's a lot of stress right now and without a AAA PR department it's only human to not be a wordsmith.
Quote from: LongBlade on April 10, 2015, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: mirth on April 10, 2015, 10:44:31 AM
I don't think you need to be a "professional race agitator" to be appalled by what was shown in that video.
I read a report this morning that the victim's family has asked specifically that Al Shaprton not show up and stir up another Ferguson. That is who I think it is intended for.
That's exactly the person alluded to in the letter.
Anyone living in the area, with half a brain, wouldn't want some agitator there using this cop's crime as an excuse to cause rioting that would only ultimately hurt peoples' livelihood there.
Well, the murdered dude was driving a Mercedes...and a very fine model, part of the well known youngtimers built for eternity, I'm driving one myself...so the white cop couldn't stand that a black dude was driving such a fine car...and he shot him. Sarcastic mode off...that a cop can shoot someone 8 times in the back and still talk about self-defense, he stole my teaser blabla...is rather telling..."fuck the police!" seems the normal reaction when considering cops in the US.
We have no idea what the officer was telling the guy to do though, right? I mean - it's fine to say be 100% compliant - but does that not depend on what he's telling you to do?
There are always going to be good cops and there are always going to be bad cops. At the end of the day, they're humans who enrol to do a difficult job. The assholes who are assholes in the police force were likely assholes before they joined the police force. Put that in with difficult situations and then give 'em a gun and the right to use it and what have you got?
I'm just glad British police do not have guns as standard.
^ Amen. I can only pray that people of intelligence, like that young man, can spread the word and make it good, faster than hatred and racism can overtake it all.
CNN is reporting that the black cop who was next on the scene in N. Charleston and caught on camera "not rendering aid" to the victim may also be facing charges of some kind.
If the guy was shot 8 times what are you going to do? Put a finger in each hole?
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on April 13, 2015, 09:50:54 PM
If the guy was shot 8 times what are you going to do? Put a finger in each hole?
there were only 5 holes, he missed 3 times! , and because he was such an exceptional bad shot the pattern is to big to use the 5 finger of one hand ;-)
Well i think those 'escalations with cops' are a result of longer frustration in the job dealing with scum and then an unexpected event of 'injured pride' made them loose it.
First a officer is
shocked, that a 'casual looking' person suddenly dare to just don't comply, then he trace and tackles the person, (Taser -if was in use?- malfuctioned, or even he missed with that too) and the ('unfit' in comparison to the officer's image of his own capabilities) person is able to wiggle free. he 'lost a fight', feels he 'failed', the colleagues will nag him in the locker room and maybe even the station chief will be unhappy, ... injured pride, he just cant take it ...he lost it!, an affect based reaction got triggered
Hi MikeGER
What's gun crime like in Germany? And what are the "stats" like with regard to police shootings and in particular victim fatalities?
Of course one has to always be careful of stats...but I'm wondering what Germany is like "in a different perspective" as I believe guns are illegal but police carry them routinely.
gun crime in Germany has fallen off sharply since 1945.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 14, 2015, 10:30:43 AM
gun crime in Germany has fallen off sharply since 1945.
Interestingly, the same is true for nearby countries as well.
possible link? :P
Quote from: LongBlade on April 14, 2015, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 14, 2015, 11:35:07 AM
possible link? :P
Global Warming.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FbcYppAs6ZdI%2Fhqdefault.jpg&hash=9050de9ff7d1a6fc84726154d1d275c1f19f293d)
JD, guns are legal in Germany and there are 5.5 Mio weapons (of all kind) in the trusted hands of 1,45 Mio proud owners :)
but only very very few citizens are allowed to (conceal) carry a operational weapon for self protection here
(if i remember correctly in the early 90ies they where 36000 gun owners in my 'county' (police district) and only 60 have a carrying licence) of course you can carry transport the weapon to the range but out of reach and stored in a non quick-operational way (like disassembled in a gun case in the trunk)
here is a detailed but German language pdf about the police gun usage topic
http://schusswaffeneinsatz.de/Statistiken_files/Statistiken.pdf
for example: in 2013 there were 8 dead, 20 wounded by police officers weapons ...zero! bystanders were killed or hurt so
Quote from: mirth on April 09, 2015, 12:05:16 PM
You shouldn't have to fear for your life if compliance isn't absolutely 100%.
I get what you're saying and in the couple of encounters I have had with law enforcement in my life, I was very careful in my compliance to avoid finding myself with my face in the pavement or worse.
I agree. Plus the use of force should only be used where appropriate and proportional. You don't want to live in a police state where they can do what they like, while you just tug your forelock? Respect is a two way street.
Slightly OT, and playing devil's advocate - I sometimes wonder at the logic of sending armed police in riot gear to peaceful protests, consisting of unarmed citizens. If protesters learnt from that experience, arguably they would be advised to protest peacefully, but armed for self defence. In order to avoid a potential bloodbath, the police would need to find an alternate solution to confrontation. Would the massacre of unarmed protesters at Tiananmen Square back in 1989 have taken place if the protesters had protested peacefully but had also been armed to the teeth? I'm guessing probably not.
Quote from: Boggit on April 23, 2015, 11:27:08 AM
Slightly OT, and playing devil's advocate - I sometimes wonder at the logic of sending armed police in riot gear to peaceful protests, consisting of unarmed citizens. If protesters learnt from that experience, arguably they would be advised to protest peacefully, but armed for self defence. In order to avoid a potential bloodbath, the police would need to find an alternate solution to confrontation. Would the massacre of unarmed protesters at Tiananmen Square back in 1989 have taken place if the protesters had protested peacefully but had also been armed to the teeth? I'm guessing probably not.
Unfortunately, as events have proven in Ferguson, it only takes a couple of bad apples armed (in all likelihood illegally) to turn a peaceful demonstration into a violent encounter.
Even without firearms mobs can get out of control. I don't see anything wrong with cops showing up in riot gear to a protest that is held in such tense circumstances. They know how to position themselves (both in body language and in presence) to be in an unprovocative position. If things get bad, they're ready and can form up for a more robust presence. Check out the riots in the 60's in LA and again in the 90's with Rodney King to see how quickly things can get out of control without the strong presence of cops on the street.