Gus's comment that he hadn't seen either Victory at Sea or World at War got me thinking about different documentaries that are worth a watch.
World at War (c'mon Gus. This is
the WWII documentary series.)
Victory at Sea. (It's ridiculously jingoistic but that actually is part of the charm.)
Battlefield (Also a little bombastic but I like how they break down each battle or campaign into constituent parts)
History's Raiders (Lots of good episodes about small unit, commando type stuff)
Warriors of the Night (Not the best production values but probably the most in-depth look at Bomber Command out there.)
Just bought World at War on Blu Ray.
I like the earlier Battlefield episodes. Some of the later seasons broke from the original format and seemed to have too much reused stock footage.
An interest take on WWII documentaries is one I picked up concerning Walt Disney's contribution to the war effort. I need to look at the actual title when I get home. Some of the films were for training, some were unabashed propaganda but they were all good.
^I have the Warner Brothers version of that set. You know, the one with all the great '40s cartoons with all the racist stereotypes that they won't show on TV anymore. I loved those cartoons, even if they were a little 'over the top.'
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-CQLQs9HpUyo%2FUMiIP5VfZbI%2FAAAAAAAAARI%2F1CTpoe6s2u4%2Fs1600%2Fchinese.jpg&hash=305cfa831704457a2c44512a29fb4e612bc3af0c)
I'd argue that the racism inherent in the wartime propaganda was meant to dehumanize the enemy in the eyes of the public. Obviously. The difference between that and overt racism is, it wasn't hatred for hatred's sake, but rather, because they were the enemy, they started a fight, and we aimed to finish it.
A good observation, Gus. I'd also make the same arguments for Speedy Gonzalez - no way in HELL that mouse (or his cousin, Slowpoke Rodriguez) would ever be aired on TV.
I watched plenty of Looney Tunes in the 70s, back when none of it was edited, and pretty much memorized them. So much so that in the late 80s/early 90s when PC bullshit started rearing its ugly head in the media, I could tell when they edited a cartoon, and that really pissed me off.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on April 13, 2015, 05:22:40 PM
I'd argue that the racism inherent in the wartime propaganda was meant to dehumanize the enemy in the eyes of the public. Obviously. The difference between that and overt racism is, it wasn't hatred for hatred's sake, but rather, because they were the enemy, they started a fight, and we aimed to finish it.
You never met my grandmother. Her fiancé was killed on the Bataan Death March. Hated the Japanese till the day she died.
My Grandfather also had a weird hatred for the Japanese until the day he died. I wonder if he lost a friend in the Pacific...otherwise it doesn't make much sense because he fought in North Africa and Italy...
My grandfather died when I was very young and my grandmother got re-married to a Brit who served as a tail gunner in the Royal Navy. He started out in a Swordfish fighting around Norway and then doing convoy runs to the USSR up around Finland. He said he was convinced he'd die up there and so volunteered for Far East service because he'd rather die warm (Japan was spanking the Brits very badly at the time). He ended up in a Fairey Barracuda and then an Avenger and fought off Okinawa. After the war, he settled in Australia for a time and was part of the repatriation effort of British POWs. While he didn't like the Japanese much at all, it was the Koreans that he absolutely hated. They made up the bulk of the enlisted guards from Japanese run POW camps and they were the ones who usually carried out the more brutal atrocities. Needless to say, he was less than pleased when I went to work in Korea and then Japan.
I was speaking more to the motivation of Hollywood and government sanctioning those cartoons (not to mention other wartime propaganda), not to what the normal everyday people thought. I'd have felt the exact same way about any enemy that I lose a loved one to fighting.
I guess 'hate for hatred's sake' could be seen as not just someone losing a loved one to the Bataan Death March, but anyone harboring a hate for a particular race because of a life-changing event involving someone from that race. I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion of racism; I just found it interesting is all.
Not a WW2 documentary but I recently picked up WWI: The Complete Story which is 26 episodes and is supposed to have great archival photos and film footage.
On that note I also got a WWI documentary called The Last Voices that includes inferviews with the last living participants.
Just watched the first World at War episode posted above (on blu ray). It is shockingly good, if anyone else hasn't seen it.
Not sure if this is any kind of anthology. Walter Cronkite narrated a series, "The Twentieth Century" that aired in the 50s and 60s. The military episodes were well done. Cronkite's words really gave a great tone and lift to all the stories.
Quote from: Gusington on April 24, 2015, 09:25:47 PM
Just watched the first World at War episode posted above (on blu ray). It is shockingly good, if anyone else hasn't seen it.
The intro sequence to WaW is pretty much the most depressing thing ever, but the narration and production values are pretty good for such an older show. Good to know you like it. O0
Hard to beat Laurence Olivier for narration skillz, yo.
Quote from: Gusington on April 27, 2015, 08:04:26 AM
Hard to beat Laurence Olivier for narration skillz, yo.
Yup.
Been re-watching it on YouTube.
World At War is definitely the bomb, and especially helpful in being more globally focused than the majority of docs which are usually US focused.
Personally I was pleasantly surprised at how relatively un-jingostic Victory at Sea was. Especially in its treatment of the start of the Japanese/US side of the fight.
Crusade In Europe and its sequel Crusade in the Pacific are pretty good, too, as an alternative short-episode documentary (like Vic) with naturally more focus on the land operations. CIE is naturally better since it's based on Eisenhower's autobiography (from which it quotes with a sound-alike on a regular basis.) Both suffer (and VaS to a lesser extent) from a narrower focus on the US than WaW, but the archive footage either way dates close to the war.
For an East Front focused documentary, it's going to be hard to beat Russia's War: Blood on the Snow. Worth noting due to its subject matter, it's also radically depressing -- and yet the utter gutsy (and sometimes barbarous) heroism of its people shine through like sunbeams in a thunderstorm, doing their best to survive being ground to dust between the wheels of the two most murderous tyrants in human history.
On Youtube there is an 18 episode series called Soviet Storm. It's originally produced for Russian television in 2011.
It covers the eastern front 41-45, and based on the few episodes I've seen so far. I find it pretty good. Although not up there with the best ww2 documentaries I've seen.
Anybody else seen this?
No...is the subtitling OK? I would watch it if the captions are not too distracting and if it's not to jingoistic...
Quote from: Gusington on May 03, 2015, 03:24:55 PM
No...is the subtitling OK? I would watch it if the captions are not too distracting and if it's not to jingoistic...
No subtitles, it's in English
Inconceivable!!! StarMedia...hmm
He he, Yeah
Watched the second episode of World at War this afternoon, concentrating on the Phoney War (fall 1939 - spring 1940) - lots of Churchill in it, lots of Norway, lots of Poland. Another great episode. It's eerie to see so many of the actual political participants (MPs, etc.) being interviewed so matter of factly. Most if not all of them have to be dead by now :( The show itself does not feel dated though. Weirdly well done.
The First World War has been compared in quality to WaW (possibly many of the same creators behind it). Not as long, and focuses more on the big picture than 'little things' like tank, sub, and plane innovations, but I liked it. The color film footage from France was a revelation. :o It's easy to forget that color film already existed in France, and had for about 20 years. Movie studios, including in France, used b/w because it was cheaper. Obviously not a problem for government entities like the Army. ;)
(Afterward there was a huge artistic backblast from the North American film market propagandizing in favor of b/w film against color film, mainly because studios couldn't keep up, which shut down that option in the film industry for a few decades.)
Although it is not a documentary, Tom Selleck's Countdown to DDay is very good.
Quite accurate, and Selleck's willingness to play homely makes it a good time.
My one quibble is DeGaulle should have been given more time. Portraying his self-centered egotism more clearly - and the headaches Ike had to go through, would add a lot.
Quote from: besilarius on May 05, 2015, 06:25:35 AM
Although it is not a documentary, Tom Selleck's Countdown to DDay is very good.
Quite accurate, and Selleck's willingness to play homely makes it a good time.
My one quibble is DeGaulle should have been given more time. Portraying his self-centered egotism more clearly - and the headaches Ike had to go through, would add a lot.
Agreed, on all counts. Selleck's portrayal of Ike was surprisingly good (or perhaps not -- he can shine when given the opportunity).
I have Victory at Sea on DVD. It is excellent and well worth owning. Not very expensive from Amazon -$5
http://www.amazon.com/Victory-at-Sea-Leonard-Graves/dp/B008XJM7T2/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1430860660&sr=1-2&keywords=victory+at+sea
It also has an excellent musical score.
I watched World at War as a kid on PBS.