I just got done another battle in Scourge of War: Gettysburg. I took a ton of screenshots, but I'm too exhausted to post the AAR at this moment. It will have to wait until tomorrow.
I fought a Corps vs. Corps defend fight using the entire Gettysburg map. I fought as the Union First Division as Wadsworth under Doubleday, with the Iron Brigade and Second Brigade as my subordinate units. My task started as defending a victory point north of Gettysburg, but it eventually disintigrated into a melee in the actual town, followed by a desperate retreat to our VP rally point, and then finally being cleared off by Sesech artillery. The battle was still going on when I ended it, but we had generally bled both sides dry and I will concede that the AI Confederates probably won the VP area in the end.
The game time was about 4.5 hours and in real time was about 3 hours.
This game continues to amaze me with the absolute constant level of intensity it induces. I am mentally drained! If you can imagine a 3 hour long battle in Total War, that's kind of what it is like.
I've gone through the tutorials, and read the manual, but I still can't get some parts of the game to work like I want. Specifically, I can't seem to figure out the courier system, or else I am just doing it wrong. For example, in my game I was playing sandbox as a Division Commander, on normal difficulty without courier requirement (custom difficulty). When I gave orders to my Brigades using click commands I send out couriers, which was nice. However, when I composed courier messages to request support to adjacent Divisions or to Doubleday, I'm not sure they were complied with. Also, while I intercepted a few enemy courier messages, beyond my initial message I didn't receive any additional messages from Doubleday. i would have liked some guidance once battle was joined. Requests for information were ignored.
In singleplayer, will the AI commanders respond to courier requests?
More to follow...
Iron Brigade rushing to support Union infantry in Gettysburg town:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-13%252018-56-41-13_zpsbft70cuc.jpg&hash=153562f81a34e14b5a1c9b304f763428cc377732)
My goal, something I have always wanted to master with this game, is to be able to play using HITS (Headquarters in the Saddle) using only couriers to command. I'm not there yet, but ultimately I'd like to be able to master a Corps command in this manner. I'm trying to wrap my head around how to do this...it's quite a learning curve.
It's a great game indeed that require a lot of investment. Thanks for sharing your impressions. O0
Quote from: Toonces on April 14, 2015, 03:22:50 AM
My goal, something I have always wanted to master with this game, is to be able to play using HITS (Headquarters in the Saddle) using only couriers to command. I'm not there yet, but ultimately I'd like to be able to master a Corps command in this manner. I'm trying to wrap my head around how to do this...it's quite a learning curve.
The biggest problem is resisting the urge to watch the action.
Quote from: Toonces on April 14, 2015, 03:02:33 AM
In singleplayer, will the AI commanders respond to courier requests?
They will respond to requests for reinforcements, but they often refuse. After battle is joined, your couriers often get intercepted by the enemy if they have a long distance to travel. Which is often the case when it comes to your superior since they are so far away and the courier pathfinding can often be suicidal at longer distances. So they may not even arrive after being captured, or the same for any response coming back.
The courier commands to your own subordinate units can be fun but you have to learn what each does and the ideal order in which to list them on each command. It can also be frustrating, when your subordinate actually follows your order, to still fail in doing exactly what you wanted (leaving too large a gap in your line or not holding part of his brigade/division in reserve, for example). The direct orders system can be difficult enough to control and there is a notable loss of precision when you switch to courier message only, so I don't recommend it for the micro-managers and OCD people.
I share your feeling toonces...this remains one of my all time favorite games that I go back to time and time again. I've never come close to mastering the command aspects to a point where things go reasonable close to how I wanted them to go. Subordinate commanders will inexplicably go on the offensive at the most inopportune time or do other such things I never wanted them to do. Perhaps that's the way it was back then and this is realistic. Regardless, it is a remarkable game.
Quote from: Toonces on April 14, 2015, 03:02:33 AM
When I gave orders to my Brigades using click commands I send out couriers, which was nice. However, when I composed courier messages to request support to adjacent Divisions or to Doubleday, I'm not sure they were complied with. Also, while I intercepted a few enemy courier messages, beyond my initial message I didn't receive any additional messages from Doubleday. i would have liked some guidance once battle was joined. Requests for information were ignored.
It could be argued that this is a brilliant recreation of the same frustration real commanders had during the war. It seems that every battlefield commander of the real war would agree that they didn't get enough information from their subordinates, and HQ. Likewise, many commanders' plans failed to due to local commanders not obeying orders, or not receiving orders, etc.
It would be nice if there were two options regarding AI: Historical, where not all orders are carried out as ordered; Fantasy, where all orders are executed precisely as written.
It is a brilliant game series. I'm kind of sad they went the Waterloo route instead of continuing on to do other battles like Shiloh, Chickamauga, et al.
I'm sure they will go back to the civil war at some point, this is a new engine they are doing after all. I'm happy to see them go napoleonic for a change of pace.
Just bought this, but I'm being old-fashioned about it and reading through the manual before trying to play. It was the idea of the HITS system that drew me as (being from across the pond) the ACW in itself doesn't hold a lot of interest per se.
Just remember that sometimes commanders do not respond to your orders by design. They have certain levels of initiative and competency and sometimes they simply don't follow what you say or they don't do it properly. I know this is frustrating because when it happens to me I'm yelling at the screen wondering whether he's just not listening to me or whether I'm doing something wrong
Quote from: Father Ted on April 14, 2015, 01:21:59 PM
the ACW in itself doesn't hold a lot of interest per se.
This is what's stopping me from playing much of this game.
Quote from: Father Ted on April 14, 2015, 01:21:59 PM
Just bought this, but I'm being old-fashioned about it and reading through the manual before trying to play. It was the idea of the HITS system that drew me as (being from across the pond) the ACW in itself doesn't hold a lot of interest per se.
I highly suggest playing through the Tutorials in order, whether a beginner reads the manual or not. There is a lot to learn from them, and they are actually quite fun too.
Quote from: mikeck on April 14, 2015, 03:53:12 PM
Just remember that sometimes commanders do not respond to your orders by design. They have certain levels of initiative and competency and sometimes they simply don't follow what you say or they don't do it properly. I know this is frustrating because when it happens to me I'm yelling at the screen wondering whether he's just not listening to me or whether I'm doing something wrong
It
can be frustrating, but at the same time it is a nice feature. Your (in?)subordinate generals each have their own style, so giving your headstrong all-in attacker a regular Hold Position order isn't enough to keep him from eventually pushing forward (or just ignoring it if the enemy is near) so you may need to issue a Hold At All Cost to get your point across and make him listen, for example. On the other hand, the slow & methodical type may never leave his position, even when a good opportunity to rout his immediate opponents with a charge is as obvious as daylight.
So sometimes you'll have to gauge their mindset and re-issue a stronger order if they're being too hesitant or too aggressive. Gauging such things is just one part of SOW that makes it such a great wargame. There were many cases of ACW generals doing their own thing, despite orders to the contrary, in the battles so it certainly deserves a place in such a sim.
Agree 100%. But I'm still yelling. I'm sure McClellan felt the same way about Burnside at Antietam. Told him 3 times to launch his assault...nothing. Finally he did and it was a massacre because Lee could reinforce my that time
So it's frustrating but exceptionally realistic
I posted the AAR in the AAR forum here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13318.0
I spent a lot of time trying to make it easy to keep oriented but let me know if you have any questions. The fight was pretty confusing and reconstructing it was a bit tough...so if I get a 1st mixed up with a 2nd from time to time, just flow with it.
Oh man, what a can of worms I opened tonight. So I browsed on over to the Norbsoft site and took a peek at the mods available. Then I downloaded some. Then I installed and enabled some. It's like Skyrim all over!
Some of the ones I was checking out tonight:
Flags and Bugles: adds a bunch of new flags for both sides, lots of state and regimental flags now. Also overhauls the UI and adds a bunch of different orders toolbars. I'm still wrapping my head around them.
Realistic smoke: Creates a ton more smoke on the battlefield. I'm not sure how I feel about this one because it is really a lot of smoke. I might pull this one; I need to experiment with it some more.
Courier mod that supposedly increases the courier flexibility, but I still haven't quite figured couriers out. I'm still doing it wrong. I need to read some more threads on this.
Some of the mods I'm really stoked on are: Pea Ridge which adds a new map and several new battles. I just goofed off a bit with this and it's pretty amazing.
Red River Campaign: Again, just took a look at this. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with this campaign at all so the battles are a mystery to me. Gives you some new maps and has a bunch of scenarios. The first 4 are as Army command, and I am totally not skilled enough to command an army, especially if I can't get couriers to work properly, so I need to wait on this one a bit. The maps and OOB are available for sandbox skirmishes, though!
Three Days of Gettysburg. Basically it links a bunch of battles where your casualties and positions carry over from one battle to the next, so you can fight the whole three days of the battle. I haven't even opened this one yet.
Bloodbath IV: Changes the blood graphics to look a bit more realistic.
Random Wilderness maps: Random maps for skirmishes; haven't opened this one yet.
I think that's it. Gosh, with all of the stuff available for sale and for mods, I really have got my hands full! And with the sandbox, this game essentially has infinite replayability. I can't even imagine how much fun this must be with teams in MP, with an Army commander, subordinates, couriers, and HITS...it's probably a simply sublime gaming experience.
Are those mods just for Gettysburg, or will they work with the other titles, like Chancellorsville?
I think all of the ones I mentioned will work with just Gettysburg. You might want to double check on the map mods, though, just to be safe.
The thread with the links to all the mod threads is here: http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/23871-released-mod-threads
Anything you download, you unzip it and put it into your "mod" folder within your main SoW folder. Then start the game, go to modifications and click twice on the mod you want to enable. A little box should appear next to the mod you selected when it's been enabled; this wasn't intuitive to me.
I was going to post last night that you should check out some mods as it looked like you're using the stock game. "Flags and Bugles" is a must and the new commands on the command bar are a big help and should of been included originally. I'm thinking that those were accessible only via keyboard shortcut before? I don't know. By the way, those will work with other campaigns; at least they do with Antietam.
I hadn't seen the Pea Ridge map pack nor did I clue in to what the "Gettysburg in 3days" mod was but that will be a must download later today.
I seem to recall that even having UI Mods enabled will prevent you from playing multi-player. I know that you couldn't use them in MP in the past, just not sure if it would tell you or just kick you out from the join. Or whether they may have patched it (don't think so).
Quote from: Nefaro on April 16, 2015, 05:53:33 AM
I seem to recall that even having UI Mods enabled will prevent you from playing multi-player. I know that you couldn't use them in MP in the past, just not sure if it would tell you or just kick you out from the join. Or whether they may have patched it (don't think so).
That may be (or probably is) the reason why I couldn't MP local LAN then, even though we both were using the same mods. Makes sense.
Quote from: GJK on April 16, 2015, 06:08:20 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on April 16, 2015, 05:53:33 AM
I seem to recall that even having UI Mods enabled will prevent you from playing multi-player. I know that you couldn't use them in MP in the past, just not sure if it would tell you or just kick you out from the join. Or whether they may have patched it (don't think so).
That may be (or probably is) the reason why I couldn't MP local LAN then, even though we both were using the same mods. Makes sense.
Yeah, it's really touchy when it comes to mods in MP.
Quote from: Skoop on April 14, 2015, 10:52:12 AM
this is a new engine they are doing after all.
I didn't realize that the Waterloo game was using a new engine. Is there a thread that talks about the features of the new engine?
New in a sense that I think a graphics upgrade, and AI to handle nappleonics. For exact details I'd check the norbsoft site forums.
So guess who figured out the courier system finally?
Yup.
Just fought the Rebel AI to a major victory in a Corps vs. Corps fight as 1st Division commander (Wadsworth) using the Gettysburg map again. Managed to figure out how to get artillery support and all that.
Fun fight, about 2 hours real time and there were quite a few tense moments. The best part, though, is that I fought the whole thing using only couriers. That is totally awesome fun. Here are a few screenshots. I'm using the battlefield smoke mod which I'm finding I quite like now.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-18%252017-05-38-61_zps1fkbkmw7.jpg&hash=fff69881cf94b3fd0200a717603935ad5b9cf65a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-18%252017-01-33-14_zpspj1md6ee.jpg&hash=7c680629c2b3cc84fcf8d8c43381d9a2b4b77dd8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-18%252017-20-14-79_zps42gzvkal.jpg&hash=3208bc672feb7390f2f72f5d1d0c0c197b0d4a1f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-18%252017-10-17-20_zpsmie9228w.jpg&hash=be67428ba1d8b2811e5f63528f01a54dbf7c698d)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSOWGB%25202015-04-18%252017-14-01-61_zpssigl85zm.jpg&hash=548c1f4b628195dd8a532fb6dd68804361489314)
Can you elaborate a bit on what you found with the couriers?
Sure.
There's a tutorial thread on Norbsoft linked above that I used to figure it all out. I found that (mostly) if I followed the script exactly I got pretty reliable, consistent results.
First, in options I had "custom" and couriers required for Division and above.
Using Gettysburg Day 1 OOB I played as Wadsworth, 1st Division commander, Corps vs. Corps, so it was only Doubleday on my side for the Union (Early for Rebs).
In all cases I only gave orders to Meredith (Iron Brigade), Cutler (2nd) or Wainwright (I think, Artillery). When Cutler died I gave orders to the Major that took over the Brigade. Outside of my division I gave orders to Robinson (2nd Division) and once to Doubleday just to see what happened.
Every single time you start a courier message (I use "c" hotkey always) make sure you click recipient and select the right commander.
Next, every single time, select time and date, and ensure you select the first time given. This was the big one. I assumed the execution time always equaled the write time unless you changed it, but that's not the case and it will mess everything up if it's wrong. If you make the write time and execute time the same the orders will take place immediately. If you set execute up earlier than write then they won't get executed at all probably. And setting execute later is self-explanatory.
Then, every single time, I go to Information, please execute the following orders.
After that, what always works is: move your unit to: location, or map point; followed by use roads (especially if it's any distance, but I don't think this is required, but it does have something to do with keeping the Colonel and the Brigade together); followed by: face your unit in this direction: click direction as applicable; followed by: defend your position.
Then click send.
This always worked and got the unit to move to the location and face in the right direction. If enemies are nearby they will deploy intelligently from there. My scenario was a defense scenario, so this worked well.
The format above also worked at the Division level with Robinson, although it took a few tries due to couriers getting intercepted. Also, using the support tab never worked for me, except with the artillery support. Asking Robinson to supply infantry support to my flank did not work; ordering him to a position, facing, etc. did work.
The system is very sensitive to sequence of orders, and you have to include everything or the orders won't work. I recommend taking a look at the thread I mentioned, he explains a lot of this.
Ok, here's the thread I mentioned: http://scourgeofwar.net/index.php/forum/hits-headquarters-in-the-saddle/21447-courier-battle-action-at-trostle-farm
I really prefer the courier method to the point and click method. I also really prefer to send the orders to the brigade commanders and allow them to position their regiments. The AI does a really good job of lining up the troops and reacting to threats. I have found that when I order regiments directly using point and click they have a tendency to self-motivate to move around as required and if the brigade isn't working in harmony through their commander's orders they get kind of disjointed. Letting the Colonel control the brigade works more reliably, and by using couriers I find that I have to think through exactly what I want them to do moreso than just pointing and clicking.
I need to experiment a lot more with different scenarios before I can say I'm comfortable with the system, but it was rewarding to see it work tonight.
Excellent, thanks. I'm going to give that a try later today. It looks like you'll be playing "in the saddle" mode pretty soon!
Last night I played a few turns of "Line of Battle" series "None but Heroes" (Dean Essig/The Gamers) and am really enjoying it. I would say that it is the boardgame equivelent of SoW. The orders are critical in that system as well.
Well done toonces...! I love this game but have never even attempted the courier system and suspect I never will.
Using the Courier system on the attack is a bit more tricky, IIRC.
I think the subordinate generals tend to splay out a bit more than I often want them to, despite giving them an attack direction. The little I used the courier system doing so, I had to repeatedly send new attack direction orders to keep them from spreading out too much.
Quote from: Toonces on April 19, 2015, 02:29:23 AM
Ok, here's the thread I mentioned: http://scourgeofwar.net/index.php/forum/hits-headquarters-in-the-saddle/21447-courier-battle-action-at-trostle-farm
I really prefer the courier method to the point and click method. I also really prefer to send the orders to the brigade commanders and allow them to position their regiments. The AI does a really good job of lining up the troops and reacting to threats. I have found that when I order regiments directly using point and click they have a tendency to self-motivate to move around as required and if the brigade isn't working in harmony through their commander's orders they get kind of disjointed. Letting the Colonel control the brigade works more reliably, and by using couriers I find that I have to think through exactly what I want them to do moreso than just pointing and clicking.
I need to experiment a lot more with different scenarios before I can say I'm comfortable with the system, but it was rewarding to see it work tonight.
do another AAR with the courier system and i maybe a buyer - whilst ACW isnt my thing, the battles look great and the strategic will they/wont they and the officers interpretations of the orders make it very intruiging for me
Toonces, do you play HITS (HQ in the saddle) or do you move around? Meaning, do you lock your view on the commander at ground level or do you move around like normal. The former is really cool. If youwant to see part of the battle commander see what he would see
Heist simulate the porch mother commanders by moving to that commander but still keeping the Camelot to him so I can see what that commander sees
Quote from: mikeck on April 19, 2015, 11:11:12 AM
Heist simulate the porch mother commanders by moving to that commander but still keeping the Camelot to him so I can see what that commander sees
either your tablets wore off, your 'herbal' cigarettes kicked in or youve been auto corrected to look like a madman!!
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 19, 2015, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: mikeck on April 19, 2015, 11:11:12 AM
Heist simulate the porch mother commanders by moving to that commander but still keeping the Camelot to him so I can see what that commander sees
either your tablets wore off, your 'herbal' cigarettes kicked in or youve been auto corrected to look like a madman!!
LOL...so it wasn't just me scratching my head.
I'm asking Matrix for a refund : I don't have Camelot in my game.
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 19, 2015, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: mikeck on April 19, 2015, 11:11:12 AM
Heist simulate the porch mother commanders by moving to that commander but still keeping the Camelot to him so I can see what that commander sees
either your tablets wore off, your 'herbal' cigarettes kicked in or youve been auto corrected to look like a madman!!
That is pretty funny - competition to guess what he actually meant?
I've just this afternoon had my first play-through of the first combat scenario using HITS and like Toonces said, it's exhausting. So far I'm really enjoying it, and would recommend it Geek. My only caveat is that it's a bit rough around the edges and certainly not a looker.
Quoteporch mother commanders
That should be one of the number-of-postings achievement titles available here!
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 19, 2015, 01:15:32 PM
Quoteporch mother commanders
That should be one of the number-of-postings achievement titles available here!
lol brilliant - so it should
I haven't done HITS yet. I need to get way more comfortable with the courier system before I try that. Right now I need/want the ability to move the camera around freely so I can verify my orders are being executed properly.
Also, I have not figured out how to solicit feedback from other units regarding their status. I send "request status" courier messages but I've never seen a response. This is going to be a real problem when it comes to managing a full Corps or larger if I can't get dispatches from my Division commanders in a timely, accurate manner. Which may be realistic? but will make the game very hard to play.
Having said that, I tried to keep the camera more or less co-located with "me" and moved my HQ around as necessary...sort of implementing a soft-core mode of HITS on myself.
I think a few more sandbox battles and then I'd like to try some of the scripted scenarios that come with the game. I'm thinking of playing them in the order they actually occurred; start with Antietam and work my way up to Gettysburg.
I find that HITS as a brigade commander isn't too bad. In fact, I tend to prefer to play that way.
HITS as a division or corps commander of course gets progressively more challenging, but with a few brigade sized engagements under your belt for practice is really pretty cool.
Subordinate commanders don't always seem to respond to status requests, but they do tend to yell pretty loudly when they think they're in trouble. Sadly, it can often be too late by the time you get the messenger! They will also report contact pretty reliably.
Whenever possible when playing HITS, keep a decent reserve. Playing this way illustrates the need for a reserve more effectively than in pretty much any other game I've ever played. Since you often don't know a subordinate is in trouble until it gets bad, being able to dispatch reinforcements from your reserve is often the only way to keep your entire line from crumbling.
^ Thanks. I think I'm going to have time to spend on this today. I'll post up some more impressions after I get a few more skirmishes under my belt.
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 19, 2015, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: mikeck on April 19, 2015, 11:11:12 AM
Heist simulate the porch mother commanders by moving to that commander but still keeping the Camelot to him so I can see what that commander sees
either your tablets wore off, your 'herbal' cigarettes kicked in or youve been auto corrected to look like a madman!!
I was thinking much the same :)
Yeah, that post is pretty damn funny!
I downloaded the Lynchburg mod off of Matrixgames' mod section, installed it, but haven't tried it yet. I may later on today; right now I'm reading Foote's second book in his Civil War series.
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 19, 2015, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Toonces on April 19, 2015, 02:29:23 AM
Ok, here's the thread I mentioned: http://scourgeofwar.net/index.php/forum/hits-headquarters-in-the-saddle/21447-courier-battle-action-at-trostle-farm
I really prefer the courier method to the point and click method. I also really prefer to send the orders to the brigade commanders and allow them to position their regiments. The AI does a really good job of lining up the troops and reacting to threats. I have found that when I order regiments directly using point and click they have a tendency to self-motivate to move around as required and if the brigade isn't working in harmony through their commander's orders they get kind of disjointed. Letting the Colonel control the brigade works more reliably, and by using couriers I find that I have to think through exactly what I want them to do moreso than just pointing and clicking.
I need to experiment a lot more with different scenarios before I can say I'm comfortable with the system, but it was rewarding to see it work tonight.
do another AAR with the courier system and i maybe a buyer - whilst ACW isnt my thing, the battles look great and the strategic will they/wont they and the officers interpretations of the orders make it very intruiging for me
It's still an excellent game even when you don't use the courier system. I actually recommend putting a lot of playtime in with that mode, first.
Quote from: Toonces on April 19, 2015, 01:42:57 PM
I think a few more sandbox battles and then I'd like to try some of the scripted scenarios that come with the game. I'm thinking of playing them in the order they actually occurred; start with Antietam and work my way up to Gettysburg.
The scripted scenarios are quite fun. Just be prepared to bring your 'A' game, because some of them can be quite tough.
My biggest issue, when I first started playing them, was realizing that I needed to post a general at the specific VP locations which grant points over time and keeping them there. At first I had thought that simply capturing them and moving on was enough, but it's not. So keep that in mind, if you're not already familiar with the scoring on those types of victory locations.
Yeah, I just played one of the scripted scenarios in the Lynchburg mod and I saw the VP counter keep popping in and out. I didn't realize I had to have a General there. I need to read up some more on how victory conditions work.
Meantime, the scenario I played was a cavalry scenario and I do not understand how to get them to do what I want at all. It was, truly, like they had a mind of their own.
I most definitely haven't mastered the courier system by a long shot.
On a separate note, I just started re-reading Pfanz's Gettysburg: The First Day that I bought several years ago on my Kindle. It makes a lot more sense now that I've played a few sandboxes using the Gettysburg Day 1 OOB on the Gettysburg map. This is one of those occasions where playing a wargame has definitely enhanced my understanding of history, and the book is (so far) much more enjoyable now that I have some familiarity with the characters.
This is good stuff- I'm really having a blast!
Rather than clutter the sales thread I thought we could continue our Take Command: 2nd Manassas discussion here.
@ Jason,
I was browsing the MadMinute forums again. There is a community mod: CMP 4.0B that apparently combines all of the disparate mods into one huge download and also provides a mod installer to make mod-switching easier.
To specifically answer your question, there does appear to be a First Manassas mod, but having never tried any of these I can't say for sure.
Something that looked very neat, but I haven't tried or seen if it's available to install yet, is a strategic layer mod for TC2M that allows you to maneuver armies on a strategic map and then fight the battles on the tactical map; kind of like Total War but not nearly as evolved.
The mod forums there are the place to be. It is super hard to figure out how it all works; it's a bit like getting into modding IL-2 for the first time. But there seems to be an awful lot of game for the $10 entry point. I got my copy on Steam a long time ago, but if the mods don't install properly into Steam I won't have any problem dropping 10 bucks for a new DRM-free copy, just to try all this content that's available. Hope that helps.
Ok, because I love you guys, and I hate to see people as frustrated as I am, here is what I have found out regarding TC2M:
1. The mod you need is called CMP 4.0B with Patch 2 available here: http://www.madminutegames.com/MadMinuteBB/viewtopic.php?t=12536
That first link in the first post is the most up to date version. It took me three times to download it; it will look like it is downloaded but when you double-click on it it will error out. Mine is 523mb when I hold the mouse over it (one was 436mb, one 513mb, and they didn't open).
You have to point the installer to your main TC2M folder; if you're using Steam it shouldn't matter.
2. The mod includes what looks like most everything Civil War related up to 2012. If you want to add additional stuff there seem to be more mods available but I haven't tried them. This version (CMP 4) basically installs everything available to that time and makes things pretty foolproof (so far, with 1 minute of testing).
3. There are about 200+ scenarios included, and they appear to have custom maps. What I could see was 1st Manassas, 2nd Manassas, Antietam, Chickamauga (30+ scenarios), Shiloh (an amazing 80 scenarios!), Champion Hill (about 30 scenarios), Wilson's Creek, Fredericksburg (23 scenarios). I didn't see Gettysburg but that might be available outside of the CMP mod.
4. Graphics suck. Even by Scourge of War standards. So go into it with the right frame of mind; the eye candy is just not there.
5. All of the above mods/maps appear to be available for sandbox ("open") play with OOBs available as well. Basically an infinite amount of replayability is available there.
6. If you wish to continue down the rabbit hole there are a Rebels and Redcoats mod (not tried) and a Frederick the Great mod (not tried). Given everything in the CMP mod, you'll have an awful lot of gaming to get through in the Civil War before you start worrying about other mods.
Here is a video I found on Youtube real quick that shows the graphics of TC2M; I haven't actually watched the whole video so I don't know how good it is. It's just for graphics purposes.
One last thing: looking through this mod some more it has a pretty amazing feature- a Full Civil War Campaign.
It's not finished, and it is essentially a series of linked scenarios, but what they have looks uber-cool. I haven't tried this yet and only glanced at the relevant thread. It looks like, though, that you can start in 1861 with 1st Bull Run and, similar to the stock campaigns in SoW, you work your way scenario by scenario through the battles. But there are a bunch of battlegrounds, so you start at 1st Bull Run and then go to the next battleground, and so on, through Fredericksburg, Antietam, Shiloh, and so on. As you get scored at the conclusion of each battle you can earn medals and such. I'm not sure if you have to achieve a certain score to move on. But you're looking at hundreds of hours to work your way through the series of battles.
It is still a WiP as there are several "Coming Soons" like for Pea Ridge, but still, it's quite an achievement.
I took a bunch of screenshots of the Full Civil War Campaign screens to give you an idea of the extraordinary amount of content in this mod. It really is overwhelming.
Edit: and this isn't all of the scenarios- there are a few more battles and some of these battles go over more than one screen; and this is only the Union side. You can play it from the Confederate side as well, so basically double everything you see here...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-07-57-23_zpsotavnkrj.jpg&hash=fccc00f171af1db60a9529f452293df427d06879)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-02-24_zps1cxhtej1.jpg&hash=c9901779a2c5a63fc52484f2c4dc0ddfa45bd793)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-06-04_zpsf7yigymo.jpg&hash=a1331436fc324fdc7bf468ac61fd3e0c05e00a74)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-30-94_zpszykjrazm.jpg&hash=3c5e901dc4e75fc380380eb017de38dfb3671f46)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-10-07_zpsvzmycxlo.jpg&hash=8bd614cee1184c15895e0c5063701c26b169bf98)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-37-15_zpsxvxmsq8w.jpg&hash=28d3824663ca0c6866a1213d589d9d3a0d626236)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-42-14_zpsqvmowqvc.jpg&hash=8e4db0ad4f9fc294de557ba85835fe6bf125cde0)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-08-44-04_zpswnmucnmj.jpg&hash=7ae9c884ac5093cdb0c3c47b3682a610afcb20eb)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FTC2M%25202015-04-29%252020-09-01-45_zpsigrpissl.jpg&hash=e190fc8563836b9614b8ed7f8391009091dd8228)
Wow. That's a lot of content.
Thanks for dropping the info & link here. I definitely need to d/l that Megamod sometime.
The graphics definitely look worse in TC2M, but I think the ground textures are the biggest offender. They're not as detailed, but they're also oversaturated with color compared to SOW which makes the grass color look a bit cartoony (for example). The 2D troops aren't too bad and I actually like the wood texture and props on the UI more than SOW's mostly lifeless black.
Looks fantastic!
Thanks to a gift from a very generous friend, I now have Gettysburg and Antietam to play. Doing mostly Brigade level scenarios atm. This is seriously good stuff.
I downloaded and installed the cmp4 mod, a lot of content there. Took me 5 times to get the download. It sure improves the country side and artillery fire, the ground textures aren't much but the rest looks fine. It uses JSME to add more mods so thats familiar. There's enough there I probably won't worry about adding more for awhile. There scenarios at the top of the list crash the game for me, not sure why. I like the modded toolbar more than the stock, the extra buttons are nice. The minimap is nice and I like how you cant scroll the map to far from your commander. So far plays just fine.
I was looking for the total war like strategy layer you mentioned but couldn't find it in any of the links.
Also, it looks like guys are doing a whole war battle by battle mod for sow, but it's not as complete yet.
I can't find it again. Well, it was a work in progress anyway and there wasn't a download link. Could be the guy gave up on it. I'll keep looking.
Edit: Ok here's the thread. It's not quite as Total War as I may have made it out to be, and it...well take a look. I don't think this is what I thought it was. :-[
Still a neat idea, though.
http://www.madminutegames.com/MadMinuteBB/viewtopic.php?t=14004&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Does look cool, have you guys been able to get the game to run at higher resolutions ?
I remember shelving this in the past cause I couldn't get it running at higher resolutions.
" You have to point the installer to your main TC2M folder; if you're using Steam it shouldn't matter."
I'm confused, are you saying that TCM2 is available on steam?
Quote from: Skoop on April 30, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Does look cool, have you guy been able to get the game to run at higher resolutions ?
I remember shelving this in the past cause I couldn't get it running at higher resolutions.
TC2M can run at higher resolutions. It's a simple text edit IIRC, but you have to d/l and run a 3rd party mod program for TC2M which allows you to move the xy coordinates of the compass or it will be in the middle of your screen.
Quote from: magnus on April 30, 2015, 04:07:34 PM
" You have to point the installer to your main TC2M folder; if you're using Steam it shouldn't matter."
I'm confused, are you saying that TCM2 is available on steam?
Sorry about that. It was on Steam, which is where I bought it, but it has since been removed from their store. The only place I've seen it now is on the Madminute website for $10. I don't know what kind of DRM it has, if any.
Quote from: jomni on April 14, 2015, 03:53:43 AM
The biggest problem is resisting the urge to watch the action.
Which takes much of the fun out of the game.
In my gaming, I also like to stop, look around, take it all in, contemplate. This game's pace is simply too frenetic for me.
A shame, because otherwise there is so much to admire.
Hi Berto,
I don't mean to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary. You've been wargaming longer than I've been alive. :o
I disagree with you, though, that Scourge of War/Take Command is too frenetic.
I suppose to some extent this might depend on what level you are playing at: if you're playing a Corps commander but not allowing the AI to control your subordinate regiments I could see where you're coming from. But if you play the game appropriately to your command level, I think it is actually a very reasonably paced game.
What I mean is that if you try a Division command, like I have, and ONLY give commands at the Brigade level, you're only controlling 2-3 units at a time. The AI controls the placement of the regiments. This can be a very rewarding and realistic experience. The downside is that tactically you only have a few decisions to make, and a lot is left to the AI. I find it rewarding, but understand that a lot of the important decisions are made before you get into battle. See my AAR to get a sense of what I'm talking about.
Too frenetic a pace is certainly an issue for many of us in many games, eg. Wargame:ALB or Total War. I don't think this series falls into those categories. Of course, this is a purely subjective call, though. 8)
^ Clicking on some of the links in your sig I hope I don't come across as condescending in any way. You are clearly a more informed gamer than me. I just hope you can see the brilliance of this game system. If you zoom out the command level, you can really stop and enjoy the scenery much more than in many games of this type.
I tend to like grand tactical and especially operational games -- stop and go, not so fast paced -- more so than low-level tactical.
I think SoW's a brilliant game, just not quite to my taste, or playing style.
I'd like it much more if the jump map interface were better, so I could play the game more JTS ACW style. Although I understand that would subtract from the game's "realism".
I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to like this game. I haven't totally given up on it. But in the end, it really doesn't suit me. It's just a subjective feel thing. What else can I say? <shrug>
SOW is only frenetic for me when I'm running a Corps, or using extra micro-management with a Division.
I've had many experiences just moving the camera about, watching the lines shooting at each other for long periods, after getting my orders issued. Waiting for an opening.
I think that me and berto may be similar gamers. Taking it in and stepping back and absorbing the entire experience is one of the big reasons why I prefer boardgames over computer games. That said, this game totally frustrated me the first few times that I tried it (I remember a similar feeling with Combat Mission when it first came out). I remember just selecting units and moving them in to the fight because there were just sitting there and then after a few moments I'd see regiment after regiment running for the hills. I shelved the game for years (starting with TC2M) but I picked it up again, concentrated on its mechanics and am now completely enamored with it. Yes, the key is to let your subordinates do their job. You set the general area for defense or attack for the parent unit and then the subordinates will position within that area. You can fine tune and micro-manage as much or as little as you need to achieve the objective. One thing that you do have to watch is the breaking point of your regiments. If they start to get close, pull them back and move in a fresh replacement.
I have to admit that I only got this because I wanted to understand the system before the Waterloo version came out (and in the cheeky hope that I might thus get a discount on same), but I'm enjoying it for what it is. Having said that...
I of course initially chose the Grognard difficulty level, partly because I read/post here ;), but mainly because at that level you get the intriguing Headquarters in the Saddle (HITS)command system. Through the manual and first tutorial I got a fair idea of what to do in terms of movement (though there are some non-intuitive aspects), but as soon as combat arrived I got absolutely smashed. I then played a brigade-level scenario and fared even worse. Now I'm no Napoleon, but I just could not see how my four regiments were supposed to prevail against a superior number which never seemed to waver, however much shot I poured into their line...So I took me to the SoW forums (not very lively btw) and found someone else with the same issue. He had worked out that the difficulty settings not only restrict your views and map info as they get harder, but also progressively buff the AI opponents...I was somewhat relieved to read this, and also to find that there are custom difficulty settings, so you can have HITS without having to fight a bunch of T1000s.
So yes, maybe I should have RTFM more closely, but also this thing does have learning curve that sometimes resembles a brick wall.
Don't hamper yourself with HITS and high difficulty level right out of the gate. Save yourself a lot of trouble.
Actually, I don't recommend using any of that until you're very good at using the normal RTS style command system. Even then, using only couriers can be problematic & the mechanics rather picky.
Yep. When you start to get bored doing it the "regular" way, give HITS a try. It's cool, but trying to grapple with HITS on top of trying to learn to command formations with leaders that won't always do what you've ordered them to do is probably a recipe for major frustration!
All hail and thanks to Toonces!
Fortunately, I'm not worried about the gfx -- I've never played any of the games other than TC1 (through some tutorials which I thoroughly enjoyed but got distracted by other things and never came back to), and I was thinking about firing that up again for 1st Man.
Fortunately, I also already own TC2, from many years ago... if I can find it... (pondering)... so if I can get that installed, I'll be good to go with the megamod.
I'm thinking of running a Confederate AAR campaign starting as a brigade (?) commander, or regimental -- can't recall how far down the chain of command the game goes -- at 1st Manassas, possibly while learning how to spell that name in a way the forum engine recognizes :P , and then working my way forward with occasional promotions through the war. I'm certainly willing to play the major SoW battles (which I now own) instead of TC2, but obviously TC2 mods in some battles that aren't available yet for SoW. (Shiloh for example, which I live only about an hour and a half from. My brother and his wife lived only about 30 minutes from Pea Ridge for a few years, too, so Dad and I got to visit with Bro out there one day.)
Ha! Found the box after about 15 minutes digging around; STILL SHRINKWRAPPED! Published at the time by Paradox. Bet they regret letting this one go. (Well there were sad legal issues involved, maybe they didn't have a choice...)
So, last night installed TC2 plus the megamod found by Toonces, all of which work perfectly fine on my Win 8.1 system by the way.
Played the first (brigade) tutorial to reacquaint myself with the system, or rather I played it up to the point where I'm supposed to join the main division and hold the left wing, which I'm saving for tonight/later. This first tutorial mission was all I ever ended up playing on my other two or three times messing with TC1 (simply because I get too distracted with other shiny things), and if I can trust my memory it's set on the same portion of the map, down the same roads and nearby props, as the TC1 brigade tutorial. But I think I ran into enemy brigades at places differently than in the TC1 tutorial -- at least I recall fighting in a peach orchard off to the left of the road in TC1, but didn't do so here. Yet I do recall the TC1 tutorial enemy being the same mix of mostly Tennessee regiments! :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
Anyway. I had enough sense not to try to slug out the fight against the first brigade with its four regiments (against my two, but I think they were half strength so we had about parity of troops), but promptly looked around for better terrain and marched my regs over to a wheat field behind a fence. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough sense to double-time it for the short jog there, and the AI did have enough sense to double-time it, so they caught me just before I could reach the fence (much less cross it)! Fortunately I was able to nurse my regiments over the fence anyway, though under fire, before all the other reb regiments could arrive and line up. After that my main problem was that one of my regiments didn't quite want to get up close enough to the fence for it to count as a terrain defense bonus. Still, we drove off the rebs, without taking many losses (under the circumstances), and I rested the troops in the field while waiting for the courier to arrive with new orders -- somewhat perversely curious to see how well the computer could 'drive' him over the fence to us! (Answer, not well, and he zigzagged across the grass about 50 yards in front of us looking for a way in, I guess, but he did get there eventually. ;) )
After that I gathered the regiments on the road, which was very clumsy, partly due to me still needing reacquaintance with the system, and partly because (as I often experimentally verified later going up the road) the computer tends to run rear regiments up to the arrow of the lead regiment, not to their own plotted arrows, and then turn them around to march BACK to where they were supposed to go in the first place. ??? I don't recall this being a problem in TC1 at all, and now I'm curious whether this was a problem endemic to TC2 or whether the megamod pack caused it somehow.
At any rate, I eventually realized that if I plotted an assault column advance (where everyone arrives in column next to one another) but told everyone to keep to the road, this bug would be avoided, and if I wanted them to stop on the road sooner than that (rather than get off the road to stop) I could just order a brigade halt.
Around this time I realized the tree transparency distance was really too large (at the default 200 yards... not sure if that's diameter or radius), which was reducing my immersion factor quite a bit, but there's no way to fix this from within a mission once it starts. But I'll dial that back later for other missions.
Around 9:45 am (I played in 1:1 time so far by the way), I brought my troops up to meet and attach two depleted regiments waiting for me on the way to the division; and then just as I was plotting the next marching waypoint, here comes another mostly Tennessean brigade :smitten: out of the woods far ahead. (Ultimately with five or six regiments to my four.) I promptly ordered my brigade to run for a large wooded area to our right, so we could set up to receive an attack in good terrain (and also a little higher than approaches to us, which would give us another advantage); but the rebs chose to take up a blocking position on the road. So we stared at one another for a few minutes while I rested my troops a bit and watched to see if they had any other thoughts.
Seeing that the rebels looked content to simply block us from reaching the main division fight, I ordered my brigade to column up for a march back into the woods, hoping/betting that when we lost sight of each other they wouldn't try to come in after us. At this point I could have simply marched around them, but I had orders to disperse any rebs trying to control the road (in-story this was due to it being our main supply route, though in-game I'm doubtful that's a real effect), so I took my strongest single regiment, and parked them at some distance down the treeline to keep watch on them, while I marched the other three regs over to where we could exit the woods behind a small rise in the land (out of sight) and then approach their battle line at a 90 degree beam behind the cover of a smaller copse of woods.
Having set in position for this, and being glad that they hadn't reoriented to face my one 'showing' regiment, I rested my troops as long as I dared, and then quick-column marched them through the copse to take up line positions just inside the trees, able to 'T' the rebel line!
That didn't last long naturally, but I had achieved both surprise and a total dominance of relative advantages: they had to pull their one wooded regiment out (from trees across the road) to reorient to face us, and were downhill in open land near the road at close range. Naturally I put my colonel in the middle of the regiments for the best morale boost and kept them close together for a line boost, although due to the shape of the copse I had some trouble maneuvering my lines so as not to be in the way of fellow regiments (while still being under cover).
Once things got going, I ordered (not with 'orders' unfortunately; not sure that's even possible at regiment level) my strongest regiment to double-time column march out of their own trees to take up a quick line position on the left flank of the enemy line (their right flank I mean). By the time they trotted into position, one of the rebel regiments had started routing THROUGH OUR BATTLE LINE! (I thought they were advancing for a charge, and maybe that was the original desperate intention.) So I probably didn't even need to re-cap the T there, but I'm sure it helped make the fight shorter. The closest enemy regiment to the top of the new T, felt like they had no option but to turn their backs on my main line to fight; and that ended poorly for them eventually. ;) Meanwhile on my right, my smallest regiment found themselves with no one in range anymore, so I risked marching them out of cover to flank the enemy on that side, too. Which worked well enough; soon after the remaining three enemy regiments ran for home, along with their commander, though one of the regiments chose to stop running past my left side and just surrender outright. :o
I'm still completely unsure of what I'm supposed to do with surrendered troops (if anything) in this game, so I called everyone together (reattaching my strongest regiment) to rest up in assault column for a few minutes and then resumed our march having met the goals for this part of the mission plan.
And that's where I'm at when I saved for the night, having arrived (just about, still taking position) in sight of the Union division, and having gotten orders to move up to support their left. :)
Great read JasonPratt
Thanks for posting
I had a lot of trouble getting regiments/brigades to follow my orders in TC2. I'd give them orders to march somewhere and they'd self-motivate to change direction, stop, march somewhere else, etc. I am pretty sure there is some user-error going on; I might need to RTFM.
It is one reason that I really prefer the courier system in SoW. If you get it to work properly you don't have to worry about all the clicky stuff. You can actually use words to tell your men where you want them to go, and how you want them to behave when they get there.
Thanks, Asid. Once I start doing something like a campaign, I'll post a proper AAR with screenies in the AAR section. :)
Toonces, I'll be curious to see how much of a problem that is, then. The only real problem I've had so far has been a pretty obvious bug (not a design flaw per se), and some fiddlyness in being able to properly get close to a fence. I don't recall the tutorial mission from TC1 being any worse.
But then I'm nowhere NEAR ready to try to do division, corps, or army work. Very likely by the time I 'level up' in the war to those points, I'll be playing SoW missions anyway.
Well, keep in mind that the game (TC2) is very popular with the ACW crowd, and it's been around a long time. If the movement is bugged, it would have been found and I can't believe so many people would be playing.
I think with TC2 there is some nuances with when you have to "take command" from the AI and manually direct your units. Again, this is where I really need to RTFM and some forum threads. I'll be sure to post anything I figure out here in this thread.
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 07, 2015, 12:28:22 PM
Thanks, Asid. Once I start doing something like a campaign, I'll post a proper AAR with screenies in the AAR section. :)
That would be great O0
Quote from: Nefaro on May 06, 2015, 04:36:51 PM
Don't hamper yourself with HITS and high difficulty level right out of the gate. Save yourself a lot of trouble.
Actually, I don't recommend using any of that until you're very good at using the normal RTS style command system. Even then, using only couriers can be problematic & the mechanics rather picky.
Thanks for the wise words (and from Panzerde). I guess my approach is tied in to my flightsim background - I'd rather go "full real" from the off. What I hadn't realised was that full real also means a default "ace" setting for the AI.
Don't get me wrong, it's not some sort of macho stance (I always play FPSs at medium and CM on "warrior") - just that the HITS thing was the draw for me, and I wanted to learn it without knowing what crutches I had to fall back on. Maybe that seems a bit arse about face, but, for the moment at least, the game is about experiences rather than results, and I'm quite happy pootling along. I related my experience more as warning to other newbies about the learning curve (we need a new cliche) rather than a complaint about its presence.
Quote from: Father Ted on May 07, 2015, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on May 06, 2015, 04:36:51 PM
Don't hamper yourself with HITS and high difficulty level right out of the gate. Save yourself a lot of trouble.
Actually, I don't recommend using any of that until you're very good at using the normal RTS style command system. Even then, using only couriers can be problematic & the mechanics rather picky.
Thanks for the wise words (and from Panzerde). I guess my approach is tied in to my flightsim background - I'd rather go "full real" from the off. What I hadn't realised was that full real also means a default "ace" setting for the AI.
Don't get me wrong, it's not some sort of macho stance (I always play FPSs at medium and CM on "warrior") - just that the HITS thing was the draw for me, and I wanted to learn it without knowing what crutches I had to fall back on. Maybe that seems a bit arse about face, but, for the moment at least, the game is about experiences rather than results, and I'm quite happy pootling along. I related my experience more as warning to other newbies about the learning curve (we need a new cliche) rather than a complaint about its presence.
You can definitely get a good experience from the regular command system. It still has that unique SOW feel of being in a specific general's shoes without the extra interfacing issues that come with using HitS.
Frankly, I think the courier system has some notable flaws. One is the syntax restrictions and order rigidity required. Your AI underlings just can't interpret English orders very well so you have to nurture the sentences out in specific order and hope it does. They also don't allow very specific orders to be given in some cases. Another problem has always been the courier pathfinding. They've attempted working on it numerous times but I don't think it's ever been without flaws. I've followed my couriers in large battles, and seen them take some insanely F'd up paths straight into enemy lines when they shouldn't have. I'd call these game issues rather than simulation issues, and I don't think using Couriers Only is as fun as it sounds.
Quote from: Nefaro on May 07, 2015, 04:11:24 PM
You can definitely get a good experience from the regular command system. It still has that unique SOW feel of being in a specific general's shoes without the extra interfacing issues that come with using HitS.
Frankly, I think the courier system has some notable flaws. One is the syntax restrictions and order rigidity required. Your AI underlings just can't interpret English orders very well so you have to nurture the sentences out in specific order and hope it does. They also don't allow very specific orders to be given in some cases. Another problem has always been the courier pathfinding. They've attempted working on it numerous times but I don't think it's ever been without flaws. I've followed my couriers in large battles, and seen them take some insanely F'd up paths straight into enemy lines when they shouldn't have. I'd call these game issues rather than simulation issues, and I don't think using Couriers Only is as fun as it sounds.
All taken on board - and to be honest I haven't yet gone to a couriers-only situation, so maybe I'll have to discard my rose-tinted spyglass...
Hm... my plan has hit a bit of a blank wall. Although TC2's megamod is supposed to have a full 1st Bull Run battle to play where I can choose any commander, in fact that file seems to be only a ditto of the large Beauregard game. Whoever put it there forgot to assign any other possible commanders to choose from. I tried playing it from the 'scenario' list, too, same result, only even more obvious because other scenarios (though not for that battle) provide a list of possible commanders but not that one, only the Beau.
This wouldn't be so bad except the one general you CAN'T hand back to the AI is the one you're assigned at the start. So I can go Take Command (tm) someone else (specifically the general who is commanding the reserve brigade with two little regiments, one of which is 2nd Tennessee), but if I do then the AI will leave Beau hanging frozen waiting for input.
Hopefully I can solve this problem by getting into the mod system (or some otherwise light text file editing) for that battle and assigning at least one more general to the scenario playlist, namely that guy. Possibly with a new name and rank. ;)
Took a while (as a break from trying to figure out why Steam didn't recognize my installation of Far Cry 3 anymore -- never did figure out why, but a reinstall verified the game's existence so that's okay).
But I found which folder to duplicate; found the files in there to mod; and so now Colonel (previously Captain) Jason Pratt has been put in command of Brig General Holmes' Reserve Brigade after the General succumbed to a wound taken while guarding artillery during an exchange with Union gunboats earlier that month. 1st Arkansas, and 2nd Confederate (TN) regiments. Plus a brick of arty which we've been assigned to guard (and whose elements I might do some tweaking of along the way).
Now all I have to do is figure out how to leave the game to work on screenshots and the AAR text -- alt-tabbing out works okay, but the game doesn't like alt-tabbing back in.
Reviving this thread. I am quite disappointed with Waterloo and looking to get back to Scourge of War Gettysburg which was largely unplayed since I bought it.
I only have the original non-matrix version. Is there any upgrade path to get the collection instead of re-buying?
Quote from: jomni on June 12, 2015, 09:20:27 PM
I only have the original non-matrix version. Is there any upgrade path to get the collection instead of re-buying?
try this
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/441/downloads/Scourge.of.War:.Gettysburg
Quote from: jomni on June 12, 2015, 09:20:27 PM
Reviving this thread. I am quite disappointed with Waterloo and looking to get back to Scourge of War Gettysburg which was largely unplayed since I bought it.
I only have the original non-matrix version. Is there any upgrade path to get the collection instead of re-buying?
No upgrade path from what I recall...if you already own Gettysburg base game and you want to buy all modules, it's cheaper just to buy the modules separately then to buy the bundle...you would save about $10.
Quote from: jomni on June 12, 2015, 09:20:27 PM
Reviving this thread. I am quite disappointed with Waterloo and looking to get back to Scourge of War Gettysburg which was largely unplayed since I bought it.
I only have the original non-matrix version. Is there any upgrade path to get the collection instead of re-buying?
Also, once you do register your serial number of your old version at Matrix, you can actually download the Matrix version if you want for free...it will be located in your games section under downloads.
Yes you can register your norbsoft serials at matrix and then download the matrix versions. Took me several tries (with my fat fingers) to correctly type the old serials.
Thanks. Used the Norbsoft serial to register at Matrix. Got the latest patch. So i guess buying the individual add ons is still cheaper.
Hi Jomni
There are some excellent scenarios for free from the Norbsoft site. Including an official one. I will drop some links later.
Regards
Heres one Jomni
Pea Ridge 1862, Texas John's Trans-Mississippi Finale
http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/60953-pea-ridge-1862-texas-johns-trans-mississippi-finale
Great video
https://youtu.be/5nA52wMysFs
Quote from: Asid on June 13, 2015, 10:27:49 AM
Heres one Jomni
Pea Ridge 1862, Texas John's Trans-Mississippi Finale
http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/60953-pea-ridge-1862-texas-johns-trans-mississippi-finale
Great video
https://youtu.be/5nA52wMysFs
Thanks. Asid, you know where to get the so-called SDK for modders?
Quote from: jomni on June 13, 2015, 10:42:25 AM
Thanks. Asid, you know where to get the so-called SDK for modders?
SowGB SDK Ver 1.6 Betahttp://www.norbsoftware.com/Downloads/Beta/SOWGBSDK1_6Beta.exe
INSTALLATION:Unzip this file into the "Scourge of War - Gettysburg/Work" folder.
That will create a path of "Scourge of War - Gettysburg/Work/SDK" to the SDK.
See this post:http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/51779-sowgb-sdk-ver-16-beta
Hope this helps :)
Regards
Damn.. I need to get back to doing some SOW before long. Especially since the modders are adding battles nearer to home.