GrogHeads Forum

IRL (In Real Life) => Current Events => Topic started by: LongBlade on May 20, 2015, 12:41:47 PM

Title: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: LongBlade on May 20, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
So what's the solution? Paint all the fuel trucks bright, reflective white to reduce the temperature of the fuel...

QuoteThat presents a whole new problem for the safety of the trucks, which will be necessary to support the Joint Strike Fighter on forward deployments where large white tankers full of highly flammable fuel could make easy targets.

Ya think?

So what's their long-term solution? Tents for shade.

source: http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/08/the-usaf-has-to-re-paint-its-trucks-because-the-f-35-cant-fly-on-warm-fuel/
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on May 20, 2015, 12:44:32 PM
This came up in another thread. You're just going to set Star off ...again :P
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Centurion40 on May 20, 2015, 12:51:08 PM
Rightfully so!

It's supposed to be a goddam multi-role fighter, not a delicate flower that can only grow in the shade.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on May 20, 2015, 01:14:40 PM
it was discussed a while ago and its a common issue with most frontline aircraft.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Centurion40 on May 20, 2015, 01:17:43 PM
So how do the Israelis deal with it.  They get lots of hot sun.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UjYEC4xWilc%2FUS8ymsQS6uI%2FAAAAAAAAWY0%2FaGQE0jS3ZlY%2Fs1600%2Fmissisrael%2B2.jpg&hash=4607697437dce52fff222fd0bd77d98cd8508b8a)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on May 20, 2015, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on May 20, 2015, 01:14:40 PM
it was discussed a while ago and its a common issue with most frontline aircraft.

Well, not exactly  ::)

Here's the official thread for beating Star down about the F-35s many flaws.

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8198.0
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on May 20, 2015, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on May 20, 2015, 12:51:08 PM


It's supposed to be a goddam multi-role fighter, not a delicate flower that can only grow in the shade.


That's the problem.  It's trying to be too many things to too many services. 
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2015, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on May 20, 2015, 01:17:43 PM
So how do the Israelis deal with it.  They get lots of hot sun.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UjYEC4xWilc%2FUS8ymsQS6uI%2FAAAAAAAAWY0%2FaGQE0jS3ZlY%2Fs1600%2Fmissisrael%2B2.jpg&hash=4607697437dce52fff222fd0bd77d98cd8508b8a)

so who got airbrushed out of the middle, Gus? Toonces? Star?
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on May 20, 2015, 04:24:50 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on May 20, 2015, 04:20:10 PM


so who got airbrushed out of the middle, Gus? Toonces? Star?


Raptor Jesus.


Maybe it was his last supper on the beach..


(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg313%2FRetroSphinx%2FRaptorJesus-lastSupper2.jpg&hash=acc0b917786c202cf628b87a2a9949be8cf93c75)




Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2015, 04:27:59 PM
what in the fkng fk?!?!?

thats hilarious but i dont know why
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 20, 2015, 05:52:59 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F267%2F669%2F4ff.gif&hash=5d5b88cc1525b6aa265910d8646415964870386c)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on May 20, 2015, 06:29:38 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 20, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
So what's the solution? Paint all the fuel trucks bright, reflective white to reduce the temperature of the fuel...

QuoteThat presents a whole new problem for the safety of the trucks, which will be necessary to support the Joint Strike Fighter on forward deployments where large white tankers full of highly flammable fuel could make easy targets.

Ya think?

So what's their long-term solution? Tents for shade.

source: http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/08/the-usaf-has-to-re-paint-its-trucks-because-the-f-35-cant-fly-on-warm-fuel/

Thats dumb. You wrap the truck in an insulation blanket then put a reefer truck cooling system in it.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: LongBlade on May 20, 2015, 07:40:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on May 20, 2015, 06:29:38 PM
Thats dumb. You wrap the truck in an insulation blanket then put a reefer truck cooling system in it.

My thought, too.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on May 20, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
because the Air Force is looking for a cheap solution for its most expensive project....   ::)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on May 21, 2015, 11:46:59 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on May 20, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
because the Air Force is looking for a cheap solution for its most expensive project....   ::)

They need to save somewhere. Rumor is that AF pilots may have to start wearing smaller watches  :o
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on May 21, 2015, 10:26:50 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 21, 2015, 11:46:59 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on May 20, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
because the Air Force is looking for a cheap solution for its most expensive project....   ::)

They need to save somewhere. Rumor is that AF pilots may have to start wearing smaller watches  :o

Dear God, the sky IS falling!
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Staggerwing on May 22, 2015, 05:23:53 AM
Don't worry, Toonces is safe. He made the right horological call all those years back.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: LongBlade on June 30, 2015, 11:15:16 AM
More bad news on the F-35.

QuoteA test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can't turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy's own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January.

"The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage," the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled "for official use only."

The test pilot's report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history's most expensive weapon.

source: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875?mc_cid=029df67bff&mc_eid=70eb148183
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
It's the same thing that a10 designer said, the wings are too damn small.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
Similar article:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-beat-the-plane-its-replacing-in-a-dogfigh-1714712248 (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-beat-the-plane-its-replacing-in-a-dogfigh-1714712248)

QuoteAlso, the aircraft flown in the test, an F-35A, is the most maneuverable F-35 variant of the lot, being capable of pulling 9g, while the carrier capable F-35C is capable of pulling 7.5g and the short takeoff and vertical landing variant, the F-35B, is only capable of pulling 7g.

QuoteThe fact that the F-35 is maybe not really a good fighter at all is reminiscent of the question that we've been asking for years — if you don't really need competitive maneuverability, than why do we need a fighter at all?
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: undercovergeek on June 30, 2015, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

He's too busy skipping in pastures and picking flowers

Go round all your unfinished argument threads and finish them off whilst he still thinks been in love is a good thing
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: LongBlade on June 30, 2015, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 30, 2015, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

He's too busy skipping in pastures and picking flowers

Go round all your unfinished argument threads and finish them off whilst he still thinks been in love is a good thing

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/eiEfvGbHtJLDa/200.gif)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Steelgrave on June 30, 2015, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 30, 2015, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

He's too busy skipping in pastures and picking flowers

Go round all your unfinished argument threads and finish them off whilst he still thinks been in love is a good thing

:)) :)) :)) You're killin' it today, Undercover :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on June 30, 2015, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on June 30, 2015, 11:54:55 AM
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/eiEfvGbHtJLDa/200.gif)

Star and Caitlyn Jenner, how sweet.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 30, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

you certainly has a gross misconception of my opinion of the F-35.  perhaps you should go back and reread the original thread.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on June 30, 2015, 06:13:23 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 30, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

you certainly has a gross misconception of my opinion of the F-35.  perhaps you should go back and reread the original thread.

Easy, lover.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 30, 2015, 06:19:04 PM
fuck off.  I've complained about the problems with the program and corrected some of the more common errors in reporting.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on June 30, 2015, 06:20:28 PM
I said BVR, not BVD. So don't get your panties wadded.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 30, 2015, 06:47:34 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 30, 2015, 06:19:04 PM
fuck off.  I've complained about the problems with the program and corrected some of the more common errors in reporting.

Easy big guy, don't throw the paint bombs!
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on July 02, 2015, 09:36:57 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
Cue Star to tell us it's supposed to be a purely BVR fighter  ::)

There have historically been problems with engaging BVR.  ROE, positive visual ID requirements, etc, causing BVR & low-RCS advantages to be nullified to varying extent and resulting in close-range engagement.

If we were gonna just gonna have some multi-role bomb truck like this, we could've saved a huge amount of money, time, and effort by producing more (updated) F-16s.  The same 'ole reliable kind that ate the F-35's breakfast & lunch, prompting these reports.   Should've continue creating F-22s for the air superiority role.

The biggest problem with the F-35 program is that it's attempting to be everything to everyone.  Carrier do-it-all, VTOL for Marines.. many countries wanting their own details.  It was a damn buggy cost overrun mess before they started coming off the lines.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on July 02, 2015, 09:38:51 PM
Don't talk all sensible ;)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on July 02, 2015, 09:41:31 PM
Im still somewhat surprised they put a gun on it.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
After God knows how many hours of Falcon 3 plus lesser of 4, I still love the F16. Why couldn't they have morphed that design into some squarehead looking stealth plane at low cost?
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Staggerwing on July 02, 2015, 09:46:36 PM
Stop making sense.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on July 02, 2015, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
After God knows how many hours of Falcon 3 plus lesser of 4, I still love the F16. Why couldn't they have morphed that design into some squarehead looking stealth plane at low cost?

Since the F-35 will primarily be for ground attack (for the USAF at least), the low RCS stealth won't be worth much of a damn when it's toting a bombload anyway.  That's why I've been  ::)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Staggerwing on July 02, 2015, 09:48:42 PM
Why, oh why can't we have nice things?
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: OJsDad on July 02, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Could have built and maintained a bunch of A-10's for the cost of a single squadron on F-35's.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 02, 2015, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
After God knows how many hours of Falcon 3 plus lesser of 4, I still love the F16. Why couldn't they have morphed that design into some squarehead looking stealth plane at low cost?

Since the F-35 will primarily be for ground attack (for the USAF at least), the low RCS stealth won't be worth much of a damn when it's toting a bombload anyway.  That's why I've been  ::)

That part is ok. In my simulated missions I always got jumped returning home, when i was low on fuel. Low rcs is good there.

If you need low rcs going in, you need a real bomber, or cruise missiles.

For regular bit of everything in low threat (cleaned) areas, why do you need such an expensive plane?
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on July 03, 2015, 12:37:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 02, 2015, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
After God knows how many hours of Falcon 3 plus lesser of 4, I still love the F16. Why couldn't they have morphed that design into some squarehead looking stealth plane at low cost?

Since the F-35 will primarily be for ground attack (for the USAF at least), the low RCS stealth won't be worth much of a damn when it's toting a bombload anyway.  That's why I've been  ::)

That part is ok. In my simulated missions I always got jumped returning home, when i was low on fuel. Low rcs is good there.

If you need low rcs going in, you need a real bomber, or cruise missiles.

For regular bit of everything in low threat (cleaned) areas, why do you need such an expensive plane?

For mostly moving mud, they probably should've just invested in proper stealth bombers with sizable internal bays, to retain stealth en route, and built more F-22s for air superiority. 

I wonder if a newer derivative of a smaller B-1, or a larger F-117, would've been cheaper and more reliable as a whole.  Then let the Navy look for their own custom tailored next gen multi-role aircraft that doesn't have to be everything for everyone.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: MIGMaster on July 03, 2015, 06:33:06 AM
I wonder if the F-35 will be the US version of the Avro arrow or TSR-2 - a great idea that went sideways from a technical and financial perspective.

Regardless - I think Canada should be looking at the Super Hornet or cheaper alternative - we're not going to be able to afford to purchase and operate the 3 the budget will allow for ;-)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: GDS_Starfury on July 03, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 02, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
After God knows how many hours of Falcon 3 plus lesser of 4, I still love the F16. Why couldn't they have morphed that design into some squarehead looking stealth plane at low cost?

you mean like this:

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finstapinch.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2FF-16XL-5.jpg&hash=e7e48ae1e7cd46f7ddcab53a4bf60bd088bb6725)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 03, 2015, 09:06:20 PM
Which variant is that? The fuselage looks round from that angle.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on July 03, 2015, 09:12:34 PM
F-16 XL
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Staggerwing on July 03, 2015, 10:00:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 03, 2015, 09:12:34 PM
F-16 XL

AKA the 'Cranked Arrow'.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: mirth on July 03, 2015, 10:03:09 PM
Correct-a-mundo.
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: BanzaiCat on July 05, 2015, 07:17:15 PM
http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2015/07/05/one_analyst_predicted_the_f-35s_dogfight_failure_108169.html

QuoteDuring mock dogfights over the Pacific Ocean in January, a U.S. Air Force F-35 stealth fighter struggled to get a clean gun or missile shot at a 1980s-vintage F-16D, according to an official pilot's report that War Is Boring obtained.

Turning the tables, the F-16 easily maneuvered behind the bulky F-35, even sneaking up on the radar-evading jet when its test pilot found his rearward view blocked by the plane's poorly-designed canopy.

The obvious conclusion — America's brand-new stealth fighter, which is on track to replace almost all of the Pentagon's current fighters, is dead meat in a close air battle.

Much more at the link.

Also the War Is Boring link: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/read-for-yourself-the-f-35-s-damning-dogfighting-report-719a4e66f3eb
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Nefaro on July 05, 2015, 08:35:06 PM
Against an F-16D, even?

Think that's a 2-seater model, IIRC.  :))
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: BanzaiCat on July 05, 2015, 08:36:05 PM
Bring back the F-14 and A-6!  8)
Title: Re: F-35 Can't Fly on Warm Fuel
Post by: Staggerwing on July 05, 2015, 09:22:44 PM
Hel, bring back Heinemann's Hot Rod. With modern avionics that thing would be a Tasmanian Devil.