I love football. I love to watch it and talk about it and play fake games about it. What I don't like is the way the NFL lords it over everyone. Their push in to every month of the sports calendar, a deliberate strategy to keep the spotlight on the shield, makes me ill. It begs for a push back. But, with the league making everyone associated with it rich beyond Croesus, noone is going to tell it, "NO!" Enter, Roger Goodell.
The NFL's current Commissioner is in something of a crisis. Deflategate is just the most recent in a growing list of hits to the league's reputation and luster. His failure to recuse himself from hearing Tom Brady's appeal is going to bite him in the ass, too. And I will just chuckle at his lack of awareness and hope the owners continue to support him. Then, maybe, they will be knocked down a peg or two.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/in-trying-to-restore-his-authority-goodell-undermined-his-credibility/ar-BBk5HB3?ocid=mailsignout
After this year, I went from the "Goodell is doing what's best for the NFL" camp to "Goodell is a train wreck who needs to be fired" camp. From the Saints to Ray Rice to AP to Deflategate, not to mention the numerous rulings on other domestic violence, criminal or drug incidents, Goodell has been all over the map with discipline. He has no consistency whatsoever. Even if you aren't a Patriots fan, the penalty slapped on them was enormously over the top. Goodell is a loose cannon, more Godfather than Commissioner.
I do think the NFL has gotten a little big for it's britches, but I still love it, want it to be nurtured and successful. Goodell tends the garden with napalm. He's making money for the owners now, but the future may not be as bright if he remains Commish much longer.
And good topic, Dawg.
Thanks, Steelie. I listen to a boatload of sports talk radio, some ESPN, some not. The amount of time spent on football is disproportionate to my interest. The dissection of anything remotely, "scandalous," ad infinitum is tiring. And it never seems to stop. The fact that the NFLPA is just a rubber stamp for the owners is deplorable. Scores of its players get in to trouble every year. Domestic violence. Drug abuse. Terrible judgement in their personal lives. The game is played by bad men with a certain skill set. And we can't get enough. I just fear that it is all coming to a head that will be disastrous and cost lives and/or treasure.
I think Goodell will lower Brady's suspense to 1 or 2 games. It will be interesting to see what the NFLPA will do then.
As for the bad players to mentioned Dog, when the Ray Rice video came out last year, one ESPN female report wrote an article stating that the players and the NFLPA could step up and start to deal with the problem, instead blaming the NFL.
What's next for Goodell? In a just world, it would be prison.
(Now if only corporate capriciousness was a felony... ::) )
Quote from: OJsDad on May 23, 2015, 01:32:42 PM
I think Goodell will lower Brady's suspense to 1 or 2 games. It will be interesting to see what the NFLPA will do then.
As for the bad players to mentioned Dog, when the Ray Rice video came out last year, one ESPN female report wrote an article stating that the players and the NFLPA could step up and start to deal with the problem, instead blaming the NFL.
I agree. I think Brady's suspension will come down, too.
Personal responsibility would be nice. It will be rare for those who haven't been held to it throughout their playing career, from Pop Warner to the pros. Once they start to exhibit ability above and beyond their peers, the road will get easier for them and their transgressions will be forgiven faster and easier. And those are exactly the type of player the owners are looking for. If the archetype changed, so would the composition. What wouldn't change is their ability would mark them for preferential treatment.
Pro sports as a whole has to balance public image vs. results on the field. The entitled, the bad boys, the troubled, they all get passes to various degrees in all sports because the same fans who find their behavior abhorrent will be rooting for them when they make the winning dunk, touchdown or home run. The 24/7 news cycle gives bad boys no place to hide.
There are a lot of good guys in sports, a lot of decent people, but the Aaron Hernandez' and Ray Rices of the world will have a place in sports up to the point they go a step too far....and then, after being "rehabilitated" some team will give them another shot in case they have anything left in the tank (I'm looking at you, Dallas).
I did catch something on the Dan Patrick show the other day that I had to agree with. Something like Deflategate would be laughed off in Major League Baseball. Cheating is an art form in MLB, hell, even a tradition. There are penalties for being caught, but somehow it's not taken quite as seriously as the NFL under Godfather Goodell.
Will Smith, the Milwaukee pitcher who the Braves just outted for having rosin and Bullfrog on his arm, might disagree about penalties. 8 games? That's 5% of the season.
Another of my pet peeves is the outrage of baseball players using steroids against the, "no big deal,' attitude of the NFL. I get it, too. In baseball, the statistics allow for a certain amount of historical comparison. Plus, the milestones are ingrained in our subconscious: 755, 61, 4,192. They are sacred to a large portion of the sports public. In football, who knows the exact yardage for the all time leading rusher? And who is it? Or, the career touchdown leader and how many he has? And the players are expected to have an edgier, stronger, more physical appearance and skill set. My question is, rhetorical mostly, what's the difference? If steroids are bad and illegal, why does football get a pass and baseball doesn't?
Don't really disagree, I guess it's just a matter of what each league emphasizes.
I was sort of indifferent to Goodell. However now supporting one of the many teams that he has capriciously imposed heavy handed punishment too and having learned more about how he does this I feel he has to go.
While the popularity of the NFL is such that no commissioner no matter how bad will actually harm the money making side of the business it will turn out that a terrible inept commissioner will instead poison and polarize the fan bases. This will lead to marginalizing teams and ultimately it means that instead of maximizing profit instead it will minimize it. The owners will not stand for that. My take is Kraft as a businessman can take a long term view on how to gain an advantage. (Look at how he bought the patriots and turned it into a 2.6 Billion dollar franchise for an investment of under $550 million in less than 20 years or a CAGR of over 15% when the stock market does around 7-8%)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2015/03/05/how-new-england-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-turned-a-540-million-investment-into-2-6-billion/
What this means is that Kraft is going to wait and use his influence for when the moment is right. He was not in a strong position with the other owners just now to go against Goodell and I can bet you that is going to change. He sits on some of the biggest boards including the influential NFL TV rights board. Goodell is going against a very patient and methodical business man and he is going to get creamed in the long run. In the short run dont expect Kraft to pull Goodells nuts out of any more of the fires that Goodell seems determined to pour gasoline on instead of like a good commissioner trying to put them out.
Con
Quote from: Con on May 23, 2015, 04:29:54 PM
My take is Kraft as a businessman can take a long term view on how to gain an advantage. (Look at how he bought the patriots and turned it into a 2.6 Billion dollar franchise for an investment of under $550 million in less than 20 years or a CAGR of over 15% when the stock market does around 7-8%)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2015/03/05/how-new-england-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-turned-a-540-million-investment-into-2-6-billion/
Con
No argument there, he did well. During the early 90's, the team & franchise looked fit for a garbage scow.
I also think that when the footballs are measured during the upcoming season and you will see that there is such a variation in the PSI due to pre conditioning of the leather, humidity, gauge variation, and the natural gas law and temp that Kraft will then lower the hammer on Goodell. No way that this tight a spec on football pressure will be maintained if the balls are measured at half time and full time after games outside. Now I know facts wont sway most people/fans but it will be enough once a big data set from NFL games is used to overturn the Pats loss of draft picks. You are going to see some ugly numbers for inflation from bad weather conditions and between the balls from both teams.
Con
I'm pretty much over the NFL as anything more then a casual fan. I'm tired of the drama and the politics of the game and it's coverage.
Wait, are you talking about the NFL or our Fantasy League >:D
Quote from: Con on May 23, 2015, 07:56:43 PM
I also think that when the footballs are measured during the upcoming season and you will see that there is such a variation in the PSI due to pre conditioning of the leather, humidity, gauge variation, and the natural gas law and temp that Kraft will then lower the hammer on Goodell. No way that this tight a spec on football pressure will be maintained if the balls are measured at half time and full time after games outside. Now I know facts wont sway most people/fans but it will be enough once a big data set from NFL games is used to overturn the Pats loss of draft picks. You are going to see some ugly numbers for inflation from bad weather conditions and between the balls from both teams.
Con
Remember, Goodell didn't punish Brady and the Patriots for the deflation of the footballs, but the cover up. In the same tradition that the Federal government sends people to prison when they cannot get them for anything else.
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 23, 2015, 02:51:41 PM
Pro sports as a whole has to balance public image vs. results on the field. The entitled, the bad boys, the troubled, they all get passes to various degrees in all sports because the same fans who find their behavior abhorrent will be rooting for them when they make the winning dunk, touchdown or home run. The 24/7 news cycle gives bad boys no place to hide.
I think part of what is going on is Goodell is the commish at a time that people are becoming more aware of these athletes bad behavior and his punishments to them is getting more scrutiny. You can probably go back as little as 10 years ago and find a lot of the same issues going on but not the public attention to them.
Quote from: OJsDad on May 23, 2015, 10:10:30 PM
Quote from: Con on May 23, 2015, 07:56:43 PM
I also think that when the footballs are measured during the upcoming season and you will see that there is such a variation in the PSI due to pre conditioning of the leather, humidity, gauge variation, and the natural gas law and temp that Kraft will then lower the hammer on Goodell. No way that this tight a spec on football pressure will be maintained if the balls are measured at half time and full time after games outside. Now I know facts wont sway most people/fans but it will be enough once a big data set from NFL games is used to overturn the Pats loss of draft picks. You are going to see some ugly numbers for inflation from bad weather conditions and between the balls from both teams.
Con
Remember, Goodell didn't punish Brady and the Patriots for the deflation of the footballs, but the cover up. In the same tradition that the Federal government sends people to prison when they cannot get them for anything else.
I think time will tell if it was a cover up. There has been a lot written about how it was a slanted report that didn't examine a lot of the problems that the NFL had in this (like leaking wrong information and setting up a sting operation). Also the scientific evidence was ignored, which gauges used etc etc. The bottom line is there was a suspicion of wrongdoing (with only some text chats giving this credence) as well as an "awareness" whatever that means from Brady. Pretty thin to be handing down draconian punishment but again it reinforces that Goodell (or his management group) managed to take something simple and botch it to incredibly bad proportions. Long term this doesnt help the NFL and that's what is going to get him fired. I don't think Kraft has finished this but has conceded ground to set himself up for a more opportune time.
Well, Goodell upheld Brady's suspension.
Now it's the courts turn to weigh in.
Injunction. Brady plays the entire season. Courts settle it in the off-season
I agree with mirth. Unless the league can exert pressure to get the case heard before/during the season. Then, I think Brady is exonerated and Goodell and the shield get another black eye. And I say good for that!!
Goodell looks like an idiot right now. Brady and Greg Hardy both get 4 games? Beyond dumb.
As my grandfather used to say, 'Goodell looks like a jackass eating briars.' I can't stand his smug face or the way the NFL acts as if they were above the law.
I love having Ray Lewis sermonize about Tom Brady. Priceless.
Quote from: mirth on July 28, 2015, 06:47:27 PMGoodell looks like an idiot right now. Brady and Greg Hardy both get 4 games? Beyond dumb.
What's worse is the way they handled Hardy's suspension.
Actions happened while old CBA was in place. Punishment should've only been 2 games based on CBA
Punishment now being meted out under the standard of the new CBA. NFL tries to give him 10; he appeals and gets 4, which is (honestly) twice as much as he should have
based on the labor contract.
Honestly, he should be out of the league, but the NFL doesn't have the testicular fortitude to tell these guys that they're out of the league after a conviction.
As much as it would suck for Pats fans, I'd love for Brady to say 'screw this' and announce his retirement.
What I think is funny is how many people are hammering him for destroying his cell phone, and guffawing at the claim that he does it regularly. If you had a bunch of texts between you and Giselle talking about kinky sex positions and getting your scrog on in the kitchen sink, you wouldn't want to take any chance that some digital forensics dude was going to pull that off of your phone even after you supposedly wiped it before trading in / recycling / donating / whatever. Nope. That sucker goes in an industrial shredder and the remnant dropped into a nuclear reactor.
Yeah, that's made me chuckle too. In this era of media circus, the idea that you would just turn over your personal cell is absolutely ludicrous. All your personal shit would be on TMZ in less than 24 hrs.
Quote from: mirth on July 28, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
Injunction. Brady plays the entire season. Courts settle it in the off-season
Unless the judge is a Jets fan. >:D
Quote from: OJsDad on July 28, 2015, 07:43:27 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 28, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
Injunction. Brady plays the entire season. Courts settle it in the off-season
Unless the judge is a Jets fan. >:D
In that case, he'll butt-fumble while trying to hand the ruling to the clerk.
Apparently Goodell was a little nervous after announcing the Brady ruling
http://www.pressherald.com/2015/07/29/scarborough-police-watch-over-roger-goodells-home-on-prouts-neck/
Kraft did an about face and is finally pissed about the whole thing
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/07/29/robert-kraft-bill-belichick-tom-brady-deflategate-suspension-upheld-jimmy-garoppolo/30824363/
I wonder if Goodell will survive this. The league owners may not fire him, but I could see him deciding to retire in the next year or so.
It truly is astounding watching this idiot absolutely obliterate his own legacy in a short period of time. Hell, he didn't even have time to FORM a legacy before he started smashing it with a hammer!
I care so little about the NFL anymore. It's increasing becoming nothing more than a bunch of overpaid drama queens and assholes. Outside of watching stats for Fantasy Football; I have no compelling interest in watching any of the upcoming season. I just don't care.
^I feel pretty much the same. In the past 5 years or so, my interest has waned a little more each year. It's exactly what happened to me with the NBA. 20 years ago, I watched most of the regular season and every playoff game. Then it was an occasional regular season game and most of the playoffs. Then just the playoffs. Now if I watch most of one NBA playoff game in a season, it's because I have nothing better to do.
I can sense this is how it's going with the NFL. I'm sick of the off the field drama. I'm also tired of games being decided by a single call or a refs interpretation of a rule. It's an overly stylized game from what I grew up with. And it's becoming less fun to watch each year.
You want to watch good football? Go to a local high school game.
My daughter is the coach of the marching band color guard and we hit all the home games to watch her team perform at halftime. The games are good, you don't have all the ref bs and replays and it gets you outside.
I've never liked Tom Brady mainly because I'm not him. I still like watching some games but you can have the pre-game, post-game crap. And the NFL network could go belly up and I'd never miss it.
In the way men are good at compartmentalizing things, I LOVE watching the games! Everything else, not so much. Tired of the entitled feeling I get from athletes who could care less about how they act. Tired of the juggernaut that is the NFL stomping all over the sports landscape and pissing in time periods considered the purview of other sports. And tired of the owners and Goodell. How DARE you hold cities for ransom by threatening to move if the city doesn't spend public money to build you a palace that you keep all the revenue from and pay no taxes on!
Quote from: MetalDog on July 30, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
Tired of the juggernaut that is the NFL stomping all over the sports landscape and pissing in time periods considered the purview of other sports.
Not sure I understand this. Can you explain this.
Quote
How DARE you hold cities for ransom by threatening to move if the city doesn't spend public money to build you a palace that you keep all the revenue from and pay no taxes on!
All pro sport teams are doing this so it's not unique to them. Not that I like it any better than you do.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 30, 2015, 08:56:17 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on July 30, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
Tired of the juggernaut that is the NFL stomping all over the sports landscape and pissing in time periods considered the purview of other sports.
Not sure I understand this. Can you explain this.
Idiot NFL news (domestic violence suspension, ball inflation) has dominated the sports airwaves, rather than actual coverage, I dunno...
sports! Like an actual exciting baseball season for the first time in 10 years, NBA/NHL finals, car racing, soccer, the first Triple Crown winner in nearly 2 generations, Wimbledon, and pretty much anything else that got in its way. We're 48 hours out from a baseball trade deadline where there are twice as many teams 'in it' than any time in the past 20 years and Mike & Mike did 11 segments on Brady vs NFL this morning. 11.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 30, 2015, 08:56:17 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on July 30, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
How DARE you hold cities for ransom by threatening to move if the city doesn't spend public money to build you a palace that you keep all the revenue from and pay no taxes on!
All pro sport teams are doing this so it's not unique to them. Not that I like it any better than you do.
Yeah, the worst of them all was the Marlins, who signed a bunch of players, got the stadium built, then dumped all the salaries 2 months into the season and are back to playing in front 768 people/game.
But is that the NFL's fault or is it the media's. Everything you mentioned is on the media.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 30, 2015, 08:56:17 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on July 30, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
Tired of the juggernaut that is the NFL stomping all over the sports landscape and pissing in time periods considered the purview of other sports.
Not sure I understand this. Can you explain this.
Growing up, every sport had its season. After the Super Bowl, and with the exception of the draft, you didn't hear anything about the NFL until Preseason. Now, the NFL is king and everything they do throughout the year is made in to a big thing. Which takes attention away from the sports being played at the time and dimming the attention that should be theirs. And I don't like that.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 30, 2015, 09:40:20 PMBut is that the NFL's fault or is it the media's. Everything you mentioned is on the media.
The NFL
is the media - they run the NFL network and need to continue to drive content on it. There's only so many "NFL Films" reruns they can show. If they keep feeding out nuggets at well-timed intervals then they never recede from the media landscape, by design. And yes, I firmly believe the NFL does this completely intentionally.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 30, 2015, 09:40:20 PM
But is that the NFL's fault or is it the media's. Everything you mentioned is on the media.
It's a calculated move on the NFL's part. It's what fuels the major sports networks to the detriment of the ongoing sports, as Brant said above. Which was also what I meant, but he said better.
Ninja'd by Brant! twice!!!
^Total agreement. The NFL knows what it's doing. Through the entire off season, through the NHL and NBA playoffs, through the MLB regular season, the media focus has been on the NFL and Deflategate. It's pretty much genius in that the NFL has become a year round media circus.
Ok, I thought you might have been talking about the length of the season.
I guess for me, I don't really follow all of the NFL offseason drama, so really don't care. Nor do I follow NBA, NHL, MLB, Golf, Soccer or Tennis, so I really don't care.
Chris Mortensen backed out of an interview with the Dennis & Callahan Show (New England sports talk) this morning.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/31/mortensen-pulls-plug-on-weei-appearance/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/31/mortensen-pulls-plug-on-weei-appearance/)
The great thing is that they tried to call him anyway. Then they tried to call Mike Kensil, the NFL official who leaked the original deflated balls story to Mortensen (and gave Mortensen bad info). Kensil's wife answered the phone to say he wouldn't be going on air.
ESPN is basically the media arm of the NFL
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/30/stephen-a-smith-doesnt-seem-to-realize-he-was-used-by-the-nfl/
Quote from: mirth on July 31, 2015, 11:57:54 AMESPN is basically the media arm of the NFL
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2860/11880123074_6cc1056768_o.jpg)
^Heh. I know, I know. It's been particularly bad with the Deflategate 'reporting'.
Oh my
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.barstoolsports.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2Fgoodelllhit.jpg%3Fe5fc98&hash=71c89417da3c77cc7aa53aafabd6af68920a3f50)
Brady suspension overturned.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/sports/football/judge-overturns-tom-bradys-suspension-deflategate-patriots.html
And of course the appeal
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/roger-goodell--respectfully--disagrees-with-brady-ruling--nfl-will-appeal-164007997.html
The League needs to drop this, rather than have it hang around all season and beyond.
Poor Snoop
http://news.yahoo.com/steelers-fan-snoop-dogg-not-170110568.html
I honestly don't even see how this is a matter requiring the legal system to be involved honestly.
Hey guys, should we fix our broken arbitration system to avoid things like this in the future?
Nope, let's appeal and keep this farce running!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1596470229/facepalm1.jpg)
How can so many wealthy people with access to smart people be this unbelievably stupid? Seriously!
From Mike Florio of ProFootballtalk.com:
"The NFL likes to say that final say is exercised to protect the integrity of and public confidence in the sport of professional football. Over the last three years, however, has any one thing done more damage to the integrity of and public confidence in the sport of professional football than the way the league office has exercised this power?"
+100, Florio.
And the article the above quote was taken from:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/04/league-office-must-find-a-way-to-restore-credibility/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/04/league-office-must-find-a-way-to-restore-credibility/)
He runs through the sad recent history of the NFL regarding player discipline, scandal and the general poor and inconsistant choices made by the League Office.
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/tom-brady-haunted-destroyed-cell-phone-ringing-ben-51253
http://www.pressherald.com/2015/09/05/maine-pats-fan-hires-plane-to-send-another-message-to-nfl-commissioner/
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pressherald.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F707072_237063-bannr-new-FullSizeRe.jpg&hash=a94e61bba99f20de05d356cb1c28be0e92503819)
Quote from: Steelgrave on September 04, 2015, 08:59:42 PM
And the article the above quote was taken from:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/04/league-office-must-find-a-way-to-restore-credibility/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/04/league-office-must-find-a-way-to-restore-credibility/)
He runs through the sad recent history of the NFL regarding player discipline, scandal and the general poor and inconsistant choices made by the League Office.
Florio is pretty sharp and the article is damning. I wonder if the League will actually carry through on the appeal. They really need to let this thing die and start rebuilding credibility.
It's time for Goodell to go.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/02/03/remember-that-psi-data-the-nfl-collected-roger-goodell-isnt-going-to-share-it/
Guess the data didn't support their conclusion....much less the sham trial Goodell put the Patriots through. He should resign, but he clearly has no shame.
It's laughable to have him continue to talk about protecting the integrity of the game.
The NFL is far too large for its britches. I credit them for turning me off from football. I've ranted about the NFL being an annoying whore for advertisers before, but the lack of integrity within is far more blatant and disgusting.
Goodell, unfortunately, is going nowhere. He gets paid handsomely to be the public whipping boy for the owners. And like every good soldier before him, will go down in a hail of media-fire when they are done with him.
It's really too bad other football leagues get little to no press or fan support.
I REALLY did like Arena Football when we had it here for a very short time back in the 90s. Affordable, fast, players aren't millionaire prima-donnas. I'd sit down and watch an Arena Football game on television before I can sit still through even a quarter of NFL football.
I'm reaching the end of my tolerance for the NFL. Very similar to what I went through with the NBA 15 years ago. Each year I watch less of the regular season. Soon it will only be playoff games. Eventually not at all.
Arena football is still around. And there is a new league starting this spring called Major League Football. It will have teams in cities that don't already have football or baseball.