(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/85/c0/84/85c084cbbce4958c526005c54b97010a.jpg)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gonemovies.com%2FWWW%2FWanadooFilms%2FScienceFiction%2FLordOfTheRings10.jpg&hash=019d48b7c87f2ce4b640c795c583ca796095e268)
In a battle between Orcs and Orcs who would win? I'm not even sure if this is a valid question to ask because to me there is no contest. One of these species is clearly far superior to the other but I want to hear what you think.
Edit: Changed comparison from WH40K Orks to Warhammer Fantasy Orcs.
Would a Warhammer fantasy Orc be a better match?
LotR Orcs, of course. Morgoth perverted Elves he captured into Orcs. So, at their base, Orcs are Elves. And EVERYONE knows that Tolkien Elves beat ALL!
(https://ataleofthreegamers.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/ork_kult_of_speed_deth_kopta.jpg)
Quote from: LongBlade on May 24, 2015, 12:02:57 PM
Would a Warhammer fantasy Orc be a better match?
Yeah I think you're probably right. Let's compare WH Fantasy Orks to LotR Orcs. O0
Quote from: MetalDog on May 24, 2015, 12:07:22 PM
LotR Orcs, of course. Morgoth perverted Elves he captured into Orcs. So, at their base, Orcs are Elves. And EVERYONE knows that Tolkien Elves beat ALL!
Ah I see. So what you're saying is that as long as the LotR Orcs have Orc converted Elves at their side they can then beat Warhammer Orcs?
WH Orcs can get so huge and over-the-top, I don't see how they could lose.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facaparzo.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F09%2Fadrian_smith_orc_boss_on_boar.jpg&hash=38734a4c1a0b6cfc1e8c36bdd2c1db03e9188920)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbehance.vo.llnwd.net%2Fprofiles%2F84730%2Fprojects%2F1192275%2Fc8e11ea15890897a0a2ef46861fcd5ea.jpg&hash=a5741d57ca0bf0b7ac223efa30b407e06cd571f1)
Quote from: W8taminute on May 24, 2015, 12:54:27 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on May 24, 2015, 12:07:22 PM
LotR Orcs, of course. Morgoth perverted Elves he captured into Orcs. So, at their base, Orcs are Elves. And EVERYONE knows that Tolkien Elves beat ALL!
Ah I see. So what you're saying is that as long as the LotR Orcs have Orc converted Elves at their side they can then beat Warhammer Orcs?
Nope. I'm saying that Tolkien Orcs ARE Tolkien Elves, just perverted.
WH 40K Would win, then WH, Middle Earth Orks are everyone's bitch, they get gutted all the time.
You make me sad, Biggs. With your certainty and dismissal :(
You read the books, when did they ever win?
The first orc pic in W8's first post, orcwardembrace.jpg, keeps throwing up an Avast malware warning. ???
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigorbitgames.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F02%2Farachnarok-spider.jpg&hash=e89fee8420ac8886ce535c41a75462572353ec05)
Wolfriders are popcorn chicken.
Quote from: Staggerwing on May 24, 2015, 04:16:23 PM
The first orc pic in W8's first post, orcwardembrace.jpg, keeps throwing up an Avast malware warning. ???
Interesting. That image got past my spybot resident program. I changed it though so that hopefully I'm not endangering anyone else.
deleted.
I've commented to my wife that I have a lot of sympathy for LotR orcs since (in the movies at least) they seem to be extremely organized, highly disciplined, possessed of great stamina and bravery, and yet so fragile that they often fall to a hobbit throwing small rocks. They in fact usually show more military discipline and organization than do the heroes of the story.
I don't know anything about WH, but I imagine those orcs are somewhat more robust, physically.
Looks like sadness all around for MD and the Tolkien Orcs.
Not necessarily. Like I said, they're highly disciplined and apparently well-trained :)
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on May 25, 2015, 01:39:10 PM
Not necessarily. Like I said, they're highly disciplined and apparently well-trained :)
So, they're basically fantasy's version of storm troopers. Well trained, can't shoot, die fast. ;D
Quote from: MetalDog on May 25, 2015, 01:18:09 PM
Looks like sadness all around for MD and the Tolkien Orcs.
The problem here is, which "Orcs" in the Tolkien-verse are you talking about? Remember there are several...species? sub-species? breeds?...of goblinoids that have appeared over time -- usually due to Evil's various eugenics programs IIRC (although I get the feeling that evolution probably still played its part as well).
There's your weaker Moria orcs, your stronger Mordor Uruks (plus at least one type of smaller Mordor Orc if memory serves) your average-but-clever goblins of the Misty Mountains, your strong AND clever (but numerically small) Uruk-hai created by Saruman, plus at least one or two other species/breeds/whatever that I'm blanking out on at the moment.
Which one are you referring to? Are we taking them all in aggregate and/or as an average? And if the latter, how does one do that (because hell if I know!)? :P
Quote from: Martok on May 25, 2015, 02:46:25 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on May 25, 2015, 01:18:09 PM
Looks like sadness all around for MD and the Tolkien Orcs.
The problem here is, which "Orcs" in the Tolkien-verse are you talking about? Remember there are several...species? sub-species? breeds?...of goblinoids that have appeared over time -- usually due to Evil's various eugenics programs IIRC (although I get the feeling that evolution probably still played its part as well).
..
Which one are you referring to? Are we taking them all in aggregate and/or as an average? And if the latter, how does one do that (because hell if I know!)? :P
It is the same for Warhammer Orcs. So probably doesn't matter when you encompass them all.
Quote from: Martok on May 25, 2015, 02:46:25 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on May 25, 2015, 01:18:09 PM
Looks like sadness all around for MD and the Tolkien Orcs.
The problem here is, which "Orcs" in the Tolkien-verse are you talking about? Remember there are several...species? sub-species? breeds?...of goblinoids that have appeared over time -- usually due to Evil's various eugenics programs IIRC (although I get the feeling that evolution probably still played its part as well).
There's your weaker Moria orcs, your stronger Mordor Uruks (plus at least one type of smaller Mordor Orc if memory serves) your average-but-clever goblins of the Misty Mountains, your strong AND clever (but numerically small) Uruk-hai created by Saruman, plus at least one or two other species/breeds/whatever that I'm blanking out on at the moment.
Which one are you referring to? Are we taking them all in aggregate and/or as an average? And if the latter, how does one do that (because hell if I know!)? :P
Now we're in the geek zone, we were on the fringe before - but this, both feet, straight in there!!
Proud
I can only be what I am. :coolsmiley:
I would still contend, Martok, that any Tolkien Orc is an Elf at its base. Morgoth couldn't create, only pervert. Sauron or Saruman neither. So, whatever species are out there, regardless of sub-species, originally came from Elves.
Quote from: MetalDog on May 25, 2015, 03:15:51 PM
I would still contend, Martok, that any Tolkien Orc is an Elf at its base. Morgoth couldn't create, only pervert. Sauron or Saruman neither. So, whatever species are out there, regardless of sub-species, originally came from Elves.
A wh orc would pull the arms of a Tolkien orc, and clubber him to to death with them.
^ So I've heard.
Quote from: MetalDog on May 25, 2015, 03:15:51 PM
I would still contend, Martok, that any Tolkien Orc is an Elf at its base. Morgoth couldn't create, only pervert. Sauron or Saruman neither. So, whatever species are out there, regardless of sub-species, originally came from Elves.
I don't know,
MD. I follow your logic as far as it goes, but it seems to me that in the process of turning/perverting/whatevering elves into orcs, the creatures lose much of their original virtues -- including/especially those that might aid them in combat.
As much as it pains me to say it, I suspect the WH Orks probably do have the edge here. :-\
It's ok, my friend. I am fighting the good fight. And while Tolkien didn't invent Elves, only the bad ass immortal ones, he did invent Orcs. No Tolkien Orcs. No Warhammer Orks. So, a win for Orcs in the end :)
You can smell the nerdosterone in this thread before you even enter.
I never thought I was, "That Guy." I guess maybe I am :-[
Quote from: MetalDog on May 27, 2015, 05:59:24 PM
It's ok, my friend. I am fighting the good fight. And while Tolkien didn't invent Elves, only the bad ass immortal ones, he did invent Orcs. No Tolkien Orcs. No Warhammer Orks. So, a win for Orcs in the end :)
Liking Orks is liking little green men.
Little Green Men? The Steve Vai song?
Quote from: MetalDog on May 27, 2015, 07:32:52 PM
I never thought I was, "That Guy." I guess maybe I am :-[
Everybody on these boards is "that guy."
The only guy here who isn't "that guy" is Toonces - and that's because of Title 9.
'nough said:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwarhammer40k%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fef%2FOrk_Nobs_Charge.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130509220053&hash=3830f7e2f2986e8821ac456448297606cc0c1e20)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwarhammer40k%2Fimages%2F7%2F7b%2FBlood_Rippaz_Truk_Boyz.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140723154700&hash=c96954da6fcd3f31a4bff73179152ed1522dd5f5)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwallon.ru%2F_ph%2F11%2F852737540.jpg&hash=ed76bc61c5e916b3b4c496eac64440001aaf5fa3)
Quote from: MetalDog on May 27, 2015, 05:59:24 PM
It's ok, my friend. I am fighting the good fight. And while Tolkien didn't invent Elves, only the bad ass immortal ones, he did invent Orcs. No Tolkien Orcs. No Warhammer Orks. So, a win for Orcs in the end :)
That is a very valid point. Whatever else might be said, they are the originals. 8)
Quote from: Staggerwing on May 27, 2015, 07:02:40 PM
You can smell the nerdosterone in this thread before you even enter.
Well it's not like the thread title didn't give it away... :P
Quote from: LongBlade on May 27, 2015, 09:50:59 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on May 27, 2015, 07:32:52 PM
I never thought I was, "That Guy." I guess maybe I am :-[
Everybody on these boards is "that guy."
True. Some of us probably a little more so than others (I'm almost certainly one of them), but yes. :D
Quote from: LongBlade on May 27, 2015, 09:50:59 PM
The only guy here who isn't "that guy" is Toonces - and that's because of Title 9.
:2funny:
See, I was going to be 'that guy' and point out the Tolkien Orc in the original screenie isn't even a full Orc, but a Half-Orc. Or a Three-Quarter Orc maybe, since the Uruk-Hai come from Orcs "mixed with Goblin-men". (And particularly, one who didn't even appear in the books, but had to be created for the movies in order to make the High-Orcs more threatening.)
In order to make anything like a hopeful comparison, the Tolkien Orc has to be mixed with a Humie!
Conclusion: Orkz.
(Also, Orcs are a ruined form of life even by the admission of the guy who tries to repair them by mixing them with Goblin-men. Which is why one of them can't ninja-solo an Oliphaunt by himself, or the book's equivalent thereof.)
The real question isn't WH Fantasy Orks vs LorT Orcs.
The real question is WH Fantasy Orks vs Blizzardarian Orcs. As per TVTropes.org. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurOrcsAreDifferent) (Which treats Warhammer Orkz, even 40K, as a Tolkien Orc in comparison to the Blizzardian kind. And then goes back on that toward the end, and acknowledges the Warhammer Orkz are about half-and-half, being the cultural bridgepoint between the two general concepts.)
Incidentally, the Ungulata in my novels are, on reflection, a half-half mix of the Tolkien and Blizzardian kind. (Because "My Orcs Are Differen!t" ;) )
Bloody hell, Jason. I should know better than to click on any TV Tropes page *you* link to. There just went twenty minutes of my life! :P