Very interesting article about how few people ever finish RPG's like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: Original Sin.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/08/pillars-of-eternity-does-it-matter-if-people-dont-finish-games-any-more
I rarely finish any game...think the last was sniper 2.. It's a sickness.
Except for Baldurs Gate 2....never. I spend an eternity setting up my characters just right, buy the guide book and set out while uncovering every little side quest possible. About 10-12 game hours later I'm on to something else. Then 6 months later when I come back, I can't remember what I'm doing
Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2015, 08:02:57 PM
About 10-12 game hours later I'm on to something else. Then 6 months later when I come back, I can't remember what I'm doing
That is me, too! ;D I finish very few games because of this. But I have been endeavoring to complete more games the last few years (and it helps that my game purchases are way down - I am less likely to be distracted by something new these days).
Games I recently finished include STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, Fallout 3, Shadowrun Returns: Deadman's Switch, Saint's Row: The Third, Torchlight, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 and BlackOps 2, and Borderlands. That is about it over the past three years.
Games I am currently working on completing: Frozen Synapse campaign, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, Metro 2033, and Gunpoint (yes, I haven't even managed to complete that five hour game! LOL!).
Another complication for me is that when I really like a game, particularly a story-driven game, I DO NOT want to finish it. It makes me sad when I know there is nothing left to explore, so I deliberately drag my heels. :idiot2:
That's why I don't play that genre.
Almost always.
Having said that, I didn't even start Divinity: OS because I can't remap the keys.
I was very far into Pillars of Eternity when I tried to take on the big boss at the bottom of the keep. Even with all party characters at max level, I couldn't get the bad guy's health below 50% before losing the entire party. It didn't matter which combo of characters I took or what combo of spells and potions I used, it was just a slaughter even after I lowered the difficulty to easy. I tried dozens of times but never even came close to winning that fight. Even though it's just a side quest, it put me off enough that I haven't gone back to the game.
I 'finished' Skyrim, meaning, I completed the main storyline. And it was awesome. It took me 150 hours, and I also completed all the DLCs. But I know there's 100s of hours left in there.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on May 24, 2015, 08:28:02 PM
I was very far into Pillars of Eternity when I tried to take on the big boss at the bottom of the keep. Even with all party characters at max level, I couldn't get the bad guy's health below 50% before losing the entire party. It didn't matter which combo of characters I took or what combo of spells and potions I used, it was just a slaughter even after I lowered the difficulty to easy. I tried dozens of times but never even came close to winning that fight. Even though it's just a side quest, it put me off enough that I haven't gone back to the game.
I'm a bit into PoE now (chars are 7th level). What keep are you talking about? The endless maze or whatever it's called under the run down base I got to take over?
I'm not the biggest RPG guy but i did finish dragon age origin, got the final boss battle on the third try ;D. I also finished Oblivion, bioshock 1&2-twice, system shock 2- twice , borderlands 1 if you count that, thats about it as far as i remember. Dragon age, Bioshock1 and system shock2 are on my favorite games list.
Quote from: Ubercat on May 24, 2015, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on May 24, 2015, 08:28:02 PM
I was very far into Pillars of Eternity when I tried to take on the big boss at the bottom of the keep. Even with all party characters at max level, I couldn't get the bad guy's health below 50% before losing the entire party. It didn't matter which combo of characters I took or what combo of spells and potions I used, it was just a slaughter even after I lowered the difficulty to easy. I tried dozens of times but never even came close to winning that fight. Even though it's just a side quest, it put me off enough that I haven't gone back to the game.
I'm a bit into PoE now (chars are 7th level). What keep are you talking about? The endless maze or whatever it's called under the run down base I got to take over?
Yes. There's a nasty beasty at the bottom. Even after I completed another side quest to get a special ability that is supposed to help defeat said beast, I still get slaughtered.
Always
My problem is that I keep creating new characters because I want to see how the classes play, what they look like, what the combat effects look like and then I find my self watching youtube videos.
Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2015, 08:02:57 PM
Except for Baldurs Gate 2....never. I spend an eternity setting up my characters just right, buy the guide book and set out while uncovering every little side quest possible. About 10-12 game hours later I'm on to something else. Then 6 months later when I come back, I can't remember what I'm doing
Yep.
That happened to me with Skyrim and Shadow of Mordor.
I also rarely finish ANY digital game.
Actually, I've finished more RPG campaigns than any other genre. So the specific targetting of RPGs may not be a fair assessment.
If a game eventually comes down to doing the same things I've been doing for hours already, I might get bored and move on. It does depend on whether there's a good story or not, as if there is I'm inclined to finish the game.
It is sort of a sickness that creeps up on you as you play more games: I've played so many games throughout the years that few of them feel like they're original enough to truly grab my attention. Taking breaks from a certain genre helps, but the problem doesn't go away entirely.
My attention span for games that are similar to ones I've already played isn't what it's used to be. I can spend hours on a wargame turn without any difficulty, but killing more or less the same guys over and over in an RPG isn't something that I find as enjoyable as I once did.
I'm currently playing Dragon Age: Origins, which I never finished when I bought it the first time after the DLC stopped working due to all the DRM hoops you had to jump through. I'm now 40 or so hours in and although I feel the characters and story are actually fairly flat and not that great, I find myself going back to it for short bursts.
I rarely finish RPGs or any other genre of PC game. If I leave a game and don't return to it the same day, I usually just start a new one the next time I play. :P
I've not finished one since Dragon Age :)
I finish most of what I start - KOTOR & KOTOR 2, DA:O & DA2, the Mass Effect series (two complete playthroughs), the Fable Series. Baldur's gate (on Xbox).
I've finished most of the RPGs I've played. I got all four endings in Fallout New Vegas, and even managed to finish a Roguelike RPG.
One of the few genres that I actually finish. Over the past couple of years I have completed: Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect 3, Skyrim (& Dragonborn DLC), Borderlands 2, Farcry 3 & 4, Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Saints Row IV, Diablo III and XCOM Enemy Unknown. I had problems getting into Divinty: Original Sin.
Trey
The misleading aspect of the statistics quoted in the article is that it doesn't account for the many of us who get 99% through an RPG only to find the final boss battle way too difficult and after numerous attempts, we give up. This happened to me in both Dragon Origins and Dragon Age 2.
^Definitely with the original Dragon Age. IIRC Rayfer and I had the exact same experience: tried 100+ times to beat the final boss battle and just couldn't.
Quote from: Nefaro on May 24, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
I also rarely finish ANY digital game.
Actually, I've finished more RPG campaigns than any other genre. So the specific targetting of RPGs may not be a fair assessment.
+1 to this.
I've finished more RPG's than not but not lately. Last game I finished was Neverwinter Nights 2. The only one's I really loved to the end were BG 1 & 2 and Planescape Torment. Not exactly recent games. I don't know if this means RPG's are getting less interesting to me or my attention span is weaker. Or both. What were we talking about again?
Planescape Torment...an epic of the genre. One of the all time greats.
Rayfer, Hi buddy, very good thread.
One thing I must mention. The statistics in the article about finishing rpg games are averages for all types of gamers...the casual, intermediate, diehard, skilled, dedicated, obsessed, etc. I think since members of the Grogheads community are more invested,dedicated and likely skilled gamers (or they wouldn't be here) the average of completion of rpg's for our members would probably be higher than the article indicated. That's not to say ALL of us are good at rpg's or even prefer them.
For rpg's there's still the indistinct definition of "completion." It's likely that each gamer has their own definition of "completion." Here's my take...I complete an rpg with one character (usually a warrior or the like) and finish the main story or mission. If I finish side quests along the way so much the better. If a game lasts way too long and becomes redundant and a chore rather than fun then I likely won't come back to it again. I usually have many more games to turn to.
When I sold video and pc games in the 90's I noticed that some gamers who didn't have the finances to have more than 3 or 4 games often chose long-play titles to get the most for their money. They played rpg's to death...playing every character, completing all side-quests and missions, finding every treasure, killing every monster. The bottom line whether we complete a game or not is if we are having FUN or enjoying the experience. Having many games might seem to be a deterrent to completing rpg's.
Current role-play games without spoken dialogue for all characters is a "downer" for me. I know this requires much more development effort and cost but I must get a "feel" for the characters attitudes, emotion, and personalities. If I can't get a "connection" with rpg characters then I have little interest in completing the game.
I've finished Gothic 3 (updated & good version) and quite enjoyed it. Put in about 150 hours of Skyrim until I turned to something else. I completed Boderlands 1 and all dlc, Boderlands 2. I don't care much for Boderlands 3 and will likely not finish it. I liked and finished Hand of God even though it wasn't very long.
These were completed before I took up fishing and community service. But, I still play games and prefer first and third person shooters the best. That's the former big game hunter in me that enjoyed shooting guns. Since I don't have guns anymore (gave all to my son) I get my shooting pleasure from video & digital media.
Great comments FC...never looked at it that way, especially your comment about what 'completion' means. Maybe it means something beyond just finishing the game by defeating the big bad end boss. Maybe it's getting the most enjoyment you can out of an RPG and then moving on.
With RPGs, I tend to reach a point where the game starts to obviously hit the home stretch, and if I'm enjoying it, I'm loath to continue it because I don't want it to end. I know that doesn't make a lot of practical sense, but that's the way of RPGs with me.
Sometimes I get to that point about the same time where I'm pretty much inundated with the game and starting to get bored. That happened to me with Kingdoms of Amadur: Reckoning. A GREAT game but holy crap it just went on and on and on and on and on.
I have Divinity: Original Sin, but only played it for about 3 hours. Bought it on super sale some time ago but it just didn't appeal much to me.
Played Wasteland 2 for about 1.5 hours. I don't know why I stopped. Back when I was in my low 20s I would have hit a game like this and dug every morsel of entertainment out of it. Today, it just seems overwhelming to get into it and learn the min/max quantifications to have the best chance of winning.
RPGs today are MUCH more forgiving than the titles I grew up on (Might & Magic, Wizardry, the various Quest games from Sierra, etc.) so you'd think that a screwup just means reloading a game instead of having to start all over again.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on May 26, 2015, 07:33:38 AM
With RPGs, I tend to reach a point where the game starts to obviously hit the home stretch, and if I'm enjoying it, I'm loath to continue it because I don't want it to end. I know that doesn't make a lot of practical sense, but that's the way of RPGs with me.
Sometimes I get to that point about the same time where I'm pretty much inundated with the game and starting to get bored. That happened to me with Kingdoms of Amadur: Reckoning. A GREAT game but holy crap it just went on and on and on and on and on.
I had the same experience with Kingdoms of Amalur....gave up after countless hours of repetitive battles. It had a good story and wanted to see how it ended, but it just went on and one way too long.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on May 26, 2015, 07:33:38 AM
With RPGs, I tend to reach a point where the game starts to obviously hit the home stretch, and if I'm enjoying it, I'm loath to continue it because I don't want it to end. I know that doesn't make a lot of practical sense, but that's the way of RPGs with me.
I also enjoy the journey more than the end.
If I ever reach the end I'm either disappointed with it or think it's great but wanted to continue along with my character in some way, who is now useless.
Quote
RPGs today are MUCH more forgiving than the titles I grew up on (Might & Magic, Wizardry, the various Quest games from Sierra, etc.) so you'd think that a screwup just means reloading a game instead of having to start all over again.
This may have become part of the problem with modern RPGs, in some cases.
While those old DOS games you mentioned could be quite brutal, I didn't really notice at the time. I suppose it was the norm. But these days I find myself continually returning to RPGs that can be difficult. Would explain my increasing addiction to roguelikes.
Not sure if I was like that in the past but if the game is too much of a cakewalk, I inevitably move on to something else on my long list. This is the reason I've put many modern RPGs on hold, IMO. Still plan to return to them, but if they continue to just put me "through the motions" then I'll eventually end up shelving them again. They're just not as fun if you can breeze through 90% of the combat with little fear of a character dying.
I see Wasteland 2, Divinity:OS, and other somewhat recent RPGs referenced as examples. I recall moving on to something else when I lost that feeling of being threatened during most of the action in every one. Although Divinity:OS is probably a bit better than the rest on average.
Quote from: Nefaro on May 26, 2015, 10:19:49 AM
While those old DOS games you mentioned could be quite brutal, I didn't really notice at the time. I suppose it was the norm.
Yes, it was. That was part of the challenge, and what drove my inquisitiveness. My instinct in RPGs today is to check EVERY nook and cranny, even if it means pixel hunting, and that might be part of the feeling I get with, say, Wasteland 2: "Oh boy, that's a big map. I gotta check everything, don't I? Sigh."
Back in the DOS gaming era, there weren't a lot of places to pixel hunt, but there were moments (Quest for Glory comes to mind). I think this just, in turn, helped the devs from Hint Book sales. Goodness knows I bought enough of them. :)
I'm much more a flavor of the week gamer, but when I do find a big RPG that is worth finishing, it's usually worth finishing more than once, because there are always other classes to try, but generally I don't go to another class until I finish. I wouldn't be surprised if I finished Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 10 times each.
In addition to the flavor of the week thing, I tend to enjoy the earliest levels best, because you're leveling up faster and going from schmuck in rags to a fighter with decent weapons and armor. Usually by about 8th level, you have made a really dramatic change. I like leveling up, getting significantly better gear, and looking better. Those things typically slow down dramatically by around 15th level. I'm sure I started Diablo II 100 times. Finished it once.
I've never made it all the way to the final boss battle and not finished, though. At that point I'm committed and I don't care how long it takes. I will suck the internet dry looking for answers, and I'm not above cheating if it's hard enough.
With MMORPGs, I have a serious problem of wanting to play every class. That's not very compatible with power guild membership.
I also have the feeling challenge comes mostly from padding enemy health/damage or lessening your own in today's games. I haven't played too many of the old DOS games series mentioned, but from what I understand the challenge came mostly from genuinely challenging design, combined with a not so very user friendly interface when it came to rapid responses (at least that's one area where today's RPG's offer significant improvements as long as they're not console ports).
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11329938_1592625514340801_8428429527053277010_n.jpg?oh=6de3c8004cde01a891583676fc7b194f&oe=55F98F72)
^ ;D
I'm pretty sure the last RPG I actually completed was The Bard's Tale III. No joke.
For me, RPGs are the ultimate "I really should know better" genre. I get a few hours in and then drop them. Or, I spend dozens of precious hours modding (TES, primary culprit) and then barely play.
I really should know better... There are so many other games out there, just waiting to be purchased and neglected...
Quote from: glen55 on May 26, 2015, 12:23:57 PM
With MMORPGs, I have a serious problem of wanting to play every class. That's not very compatible with power guild membership.
+++1
That above pic is hilarious. It would be moreso if I didn't actually date that girl, once.
Not me..been playing games since the early eighties and could count on one hand the amount I have finished.
I guess I'm the odd man out. I've finished scores of RPGs. Many RPGs I've completed multiple times. I really like RPGs, strategy games, strategic level war games and the like. Most of the reviews I've written I've either played the game to the end or completed 75%+ of the game.
Right now I'm 75%+ through Fantasy General campaign. I think I've finished 3-4 RPGs this year alone.
I wouldn't be surprised if I have put 1000 hours into Torchlight & Torchlight 2 - and never completed either one. Got within about 5 floors of the end of Torchlight, then something interrupted me.
Something always interrupts me, and if I start playing again after a long time away, I simply must start over.
I've had enough trouble making it to the end of this thread!
I think I finished Loren: Amazon Princess, but that's the only RPG title I've finished in a LONG time. I must say, though, that a lot of that is because I've found little originality in RPGs in recent years. Even the games with an engaging story line or story lines (e.g., most of the Star Wars: The Old Republic classes) end up losing interest because of the grinding required.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on May 29, 2015, 09:46:09 PM
I've had enough trouble making it to the end of this thread!
Me too. I think I skipped something and posted far above. The strange thing is I kind of like RPGs, though Skyrim was much better than Shadow of Mordor...but I don't think I've ever finished one. Witcher sounds unpleasant, but I'm sure something will come along along the lines of Skyrim sooner or later.
Yeah. Just to be clear, I've finished a few others. Questron in 1984, and Pools of Radiance in 1988, for example...
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on June 01, 2015, 09:26:56 AM
Yeah. Just to be clear, I've finished a few others. Questron in 1984, and Pools of Radiance in 1988, for example...
Okay. I think I probably did complete Pool of Radiance.
I completed the original Wizardry back in the mid-80s
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 01, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
I completed the original Wizardry back in the mid-80s
Contra dextra avenue
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 01, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
I completed the original Wizardry back in the mid-80s
Wonder how many times your party died when you started. :))
Quote from: Nefaro on June 01, 2015, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 01, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
I completed the original Wizardry back in the mid-80s
Wonder how many times your party died when you started. :))
My question would be how many times did he fight Werdna before he put him down? It had to be at least 100 times for me.
Of course - if you'll recall - once you knew the dungeon well enough, you could take the elevator to the 4th floor without a fight, then take the elevator from there to the 9th floor with only 1 or 2 fight on the 4th floor, then 1 fight on the 9th floor and down the chute to the 10th floor. There was still quite a bit of tough work to get to Werdna once you were on the 10th floor, but you didn't have to fight through every floor again.
Was able to finish Elder Scroll Series (main quests) and Diablo 1,2,3. Some of the Ultima games as well.
Neverwinter nights and Sacred never made it to the end. Otherwise not a bad games at all.
It's even harder than RPGs to finish games like HOI and EU till the end date.
I suspect that if you are sink hard enough into the game you want to finish it no matter what.