I am currently playing Hegemony and I am enjoying it more than I expected to. This has opened up a whole new world to me, having never read or gamed anything on ancient Greece at all. So now I am kind of hooked. What do you guys recommend?
Well, I enjoyed "tin soldiers Julius Caesar"....never tried it, bit I know there is a "tin soldiers Alexander the great"...or at least I think there is. Also try "Greek wars" by hps
^That was one of the series I was thinking of. Is there a campaign in Caesar?
Yes, tin soldiers Julius Caesar has a campaign. It is very basic though...basically just a series of battles where your units same casualties carry over from one battle to the next. It's been awile since I played it so someone chime in if I'm off.
That's correct mikeck and the Alexander Tin Soldiers is the same. The Caesar is the more recent of the two games.
I'll check it out, thanks Mikeck.
Anything else?
It's really a neglicted era and your options are pretty limited.
HPS Ancient Wars - Tactical
Tin Soldiers - Tactical w/ card based bonus/penalties
Spartan/Chariots of War - Civ style ancient game with very limited control tactical battles
Rome Total War w/ Alexander expansion - You know about this one
Great Battles of Rome - Tactical battles w/ limited campaign similar to Tin Soldiers pick a battle and upgrade army and it's not Greek.
EU Rome - Strategic campaign. You can play the Greek kingdoms.
There might be a few more out there, but it's pretty sparse in the Ancient Greece gaming selection and honestly not too much more on Rome.
You like Spartans? Sounds decent:
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/312/details/Spartan
I do, but I've not played for a long time. It's a pretty easy game to get into but as with all things YMMV. If you are not a fan of CIV style games, then I wouldn't get it. I know there are some youtube videos out there, which I would watch just to get a feel before purchasing. The games are not for everyone. There is also a patch with a .dll file you need to pull off of Slitherine's downloads page to get it to work on Win 7. Not a huge issue, but it needs to be put into the main game folder for it to work.
The battles are not going to blow your tactical socks off. There are like 3 commands you can issue after arranging your forces irrc. Something like rally, retreat and some other such command. The overland tactical strategy revolves around building up your city states buildings and trade to build your armies to conquer your rival Greek city states.
Gus, you can try Spartans. There is a demo download for free. I got it from Gamershell.com.
It's a decent game, rather simple but with enough to do that it's pretty involving. Helps a lot if you like the period.
A game that is off the radar of most folks is Strength and Honor.
There is a demo of that also. It's pretty good, but the tactical battle system is too generic for my tastes.
Where the game shines is the setting. It is in the period right after Alexander's death. There are Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, Egyptians, Seleucids, and Indians. The whole ancient world.
Every empire has a group of generals and ministers, each with different strengths and weaknesses. Each major city has a govenor.
For the strategic, global gamer, it is really good.
If you focus on the armies and tactical actions, the differences between the troops of different nations, that is not so good.
Id give both demos a try and see if the games are to your liking.
Now what may be a great game is Ageod has announced that their next game will be on the Roman Empire, including Julius Caesar. (Poor Big Julie, got it right inna rotunda - the worst possible place.)
They have also promised an expansion for the Roman Republic, which would be the wars with Carthage, the Samnites, the German invasions, and against the different Diadochi.
If you liked their American Civil War game, you would probably enjoy this, too.
The Ancients are definitely under-represented in wargaming these days. Hell, I still load up the old Great Battles Collection by iMagic just for some good ancients battles (GB Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar). Thankfully it works just fine on modern OSes, with a specific interface option or two turned off. The HPS one looks like it's somewhat similar to these oldies (and, in true HPS style, also looks like it came from 1996-97). I've heard mixed stuff about the HPS one - something about a bunch of time wasting away, so I'll just stick to the Great Battles one I already have.
Spartan from Slitherine is a nice turn-based grand strategy game of the Greek era - exactly the spot you're looking for. I suppose comparing it to Civ may be somewhat appropriate, but it's more detailed in that there are many different trade/building goods and they're wonderfully limited enough to force tough decisions on you regarding buildings, military units, and trade. The battles are quite unusual in that you get limited intel on the ai's forces before your battle setup (generally a few to none of them) depending on how much cavalry you have in your army (for better recon). Then you place your units, give them a basic pre-start command (such as how long to hold position before advancing, to charge/flank, etc). Once the battle begins, there's not much you can do to influence it so your initial setup strategy is key, and your recon ability helps immensely. Some people complain about it's combat, but unlike many grand strategy games, at least it has tac battles. My biggest complaint is that it's getting aged and the screen resolution is stuck at 1024x768 :( (and still costs what? $30?). I usually pester Iain about when a newer version will be made, when I see him about the forums. Spartan is the only other grand strat game focusing on the Greek period besides Hegemony. The 'grand campaign' is pretty big and can take a good amount of time. I recall the AI difficulty level needed to be raised up a couple notches above default before it used everything in it's arsenal.
But since you are already playing a grand strategy game for the period, perhaps a tactical wargame is what you're looking for. Tin Soldiers: Alexander is probably the droid you're looking for - not sure if you can even find the old Win98 Great Battles Collection on sale anywhere - I recall someone asking me if I'd be willing to part w/ it because they couldn't find it anymore.
I'm looking forward to AGEOD's new Rome game, but I'd still like to have a newer Grand Strategy one that covers from the Greek period on up. >:(
^Thanks for detailed responses...didn't realize so many of you are ancients fans. Tin Soldiers sounds like the best one, or I can just stick with Hegemony...
Besilarius is Strength and Honor by the same guy who did those Japanese historical games? The title escapes me.
Anguille is a Strength and Honor guru. It did not strike a chord with me. I found the interface to be too obtuse to even want to learn or deal with.
^Sounds like it is by the same guy that did those Japanese titles...wtf is the title?? I remember Anguille loved those games too and I hated them :/
Bes' description of Strength and Honor's historical setting is hitting that sweet spot for me though...dammit.
Here we are: Magitech. And the Japanese games are Takeda. Thank God.
I see there is a Strength & Honor 2...
http://www.ezgame.com/Mobile/page_PC_Games/
Gus, I don't know if MTW/VI still runs on your computer, but if it does, there's a "Hellenic TW" total-conversion mod you could try. I've only played it a little bit myself (just not had the time to really get into it), but it's supposed to a stable and fun mod.
Have not tried the S&H2, so not aware of what changes have been done.
If the tactical system is improved, might take a close look.
I love this period and this is the only game that covers that time.
There used to be a decent demo on the original S&H. If there is none for the second, you could try the first demo and see if their concept works for you. I'm not sure if you can turn off the tactical battles or not.
And at least for the first game, the interface is not user friendly/intuitive/easy.
Hopefully, this was one of the things they worked on for number 2. Perhaps if you've tried Takeda (which I have not), you'll know if this is a turn off.
^Thanks Bes.
Martok I haven't tried to play the original MTW/VI in years. But there are a ton of mods for RTW that cover Greece.
I found the Alexander addon for RTW not bad, especially the battle campaign (all the major battles of Alexander).
There's a demo for S&H 2 and i recommend to try it first before thinking about getting it (also to see if you have enough RAM to run the game on Windows 7).
Spartan and Gates of Troy was a favorite of mine. The strategy map looks great. Now, i you don't mind the basic artwork of the battles, its' a very good and challenging game.
I am currentely playing Tin Soldiers (played Alexander first and now Julius Caesar)...i find it solid and very challenging.
I also enjoy the HPS games...but it's mostly battle per battle, no real campaign imho.
A fairly correct game from a historical point of view was the Alexander version of American Conquest....
Finally, a game not mentionned here yet, is Alexander the Great, an rts game, sequel to Sparta: ancient wars.
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-ATG/alexander-the-great (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-ATG/alexander-the-great)
I got the impression that Strength & Honour 2 was just a bad Romance of the 3 Kingdoms clone with the various ancient world style general's faces plastered on fugly artwork. I've not played it, so I could be totally wrong.
Yep....but dont forget the max resolution of 1024x 780! made bad artwork...mmmm c'est magnifique.
Thanks Anguille, I knew you were one of the guys to go to on this. Curious if you've played Hegemony...
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 09:42:14 AM
Thanks Anguille, I knew you were one of the guys to go to on this. Curious if you've played Hegemony...
It's on my to do list...i was about to start it but decided to start first with Star Ruler....i did play the tutorial though and think it's a great game and look forward to the Roman version of the game. I may well focus on Hegemony once i finish my Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar campaign (i am about to finish, at least i hope, the Gallic War campaign but there's still the civil war coming next :P)...eta for starting to play Hegemony is end of May. :o
Cheers
^Hegemony is very polished and modern. There is a lot going on in the game so it is taking me some time to not get my arse handed to me. It is solid and well done though and good enough to get me interested in the era, which I never really was before. I am also excited for the Roman game to be released!
After playing Hegemony I wonder if all of these older releases would pale in comparison?
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
^Hegemony is very polished and modern. There is a lot going on in the game so it is taking me some time to not get my arse handed to me. It is solid and well done though and good enough to get me interested in the era, which I never really was before. I am also excited for the Roman game to be released!
After playing Hegemony I wonder if all of these older releases would pale in comparison?
The Tin Soldiers/Julius Caesar games are not of the same mold. They're a port of a minis game and play like a minis game in electronic format. They're not bad at all, but it's an entirely different perspective.
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
^Hegemony is very polished and modern. There is a lot going on in the game so it is taking me some time to not get my arse handed to me. It is solid and well done though and good enough to get me interested in the era, which I never really was before. I am also excited for the Roman game to be released!
After playing Hegemony I wonder if all of these older releases would pale in comparison?
My top recommandation would be:
- Spartan/Gates of Troy. I haven't played them much lately, but imho, despite their age, they are still very good and the turn-based alternative to Hegemony.
Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar (if you like the type of graphics) is really nice (though no strategy map and replayability is much lower). Strengh and Honor 2 is good (AI and various concepts) but was probably overambitious...no elephants and the strategy map doesn't look nice. Yet, i had a real feeling of achievement when my Spartan troops took over the last chinese cities. 8)
Cheers
PS: Longblade is of course right here.
Thanks Anguille! LB is often more right than not...it something I just have to grapple with :)
It's been a long, long time since I really got into any new historical eras. Probably since before college which was 20 years ago.
For that alone I give Hegemony a lot of credit. Also a lot of credit for holding my aging brain in interest after about a dozen hours, and not frustrating me with the UI, etc. For these things it will hold a special place on my hard drive :)
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 11:02:59 AM
Thanks Anguille! LB is often more right than not...it something I just have to grapple with :)
It's been a long, long time since I really got into any new historical eras. Probably since before college which was 20 years ago.
For that alone I give Hegemony a lot of credit. Also a lot of credit for holding my aging brain in interest after about a dozen hours, and not frustrating me with the UI, etc. For these things it will hold a special place on my hard drive :)
If you're looking for a good Ancients game, I'd start with the first Field of Glory. It's best as a multiplayer game, but the single-player is good enough to teach you the ropes. Since then many more expansion have been created - I haven't kept up with them other than to note that when I installed a later version and then an earlier version the "fool proof" patching system somehow fooled itself. I had to track down a manual patch (not exactly easy) and then install that, then reinstall to get it to run. Hopefully that's been fixed.
Beyond that I'll simply say the system is good, the games are fun and although it's based on a minis game it's decent enough that you won't feel like you're playing much of a minis game.
I do have the Fields of Glory Ottoman version around here somewhere.
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 11:15:37 AM
I do have the Fields of Glory Ottoman version around here somewhere.
Give that a whirl. I think you'll like it.
^Have you played Spartan?
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 11:21:16 AM
^Have you played Spartan?
I'm pretty sure I tried it several years ago and didn't like it. Can't remember 100% though. IIRC it was too light for me, but I do remember it having some fans. Maybe others here with more experience can chime in.
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 11:21:16 AM
^Have you played Spartan?
It's about the only other grand strategy style game of similar period to Hegemony. I like it, but some people don't.
It's also older so the game is fixed resolution. There should be a combo pack that includes it's Gates of Troy expansion which adds more campaign options, and one option I really liked - an extra zoom out level on the campaign map (it's pretty big in relation to movement).
Most people who didn't like it mentioned the battles as being their big complaint. While not terribly involved, they also allowed some quick battle strategy without taking up a lot of time from the campaign layer, which was the focus of the game IMO. I want a sequel, actually!
^I have the product page open right now for Sparta.
That said, my intense interest in the era is waning a bit as I finish up Keegan's book and my Hegemony campaign grinds into stalemate...I just cannot take that last enemy city and have lost a lot of men trying to do so. But I didn't expect to play for more than a couple of weeks anyway.
Plus...Warlock is released tomorrow and The Big D next week. But Hegemony kept me gaming during a light time, moreso than I thought it would.
Hegemony is a good, light time sink for a few days.
Once we move on from Warlock, at least some of these Ancients games will be on your radar now. :D
Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2012, 09:00:50 PM
^I have the product page open right now for Sparta.
That said, my intense interest in the era is waning a bit as I finish up Keegan's book and my Hegemony campaign grinds into stalemate...I just cannot take that last enemy city and have lost a lot of men trying to do so. But I didn't expect to play for more than a couple of weeks anyway.
Plus...Warlock is released tomorrow and The Big D next week. But Hegemony kept me gaming during a light time, moreso than I thought it would.
Note that
Gates of Troy is a
standalone addon for
Spartan....you don't really need Spartan (unless you want the various scenarios from Spartan).
Cheers
^Got it. Spartan interests me more though :)
And you were right Bison, Hegemony is good for a week or two, then it gets a little repetitive. Hopefully the Roman game will open up a bit.
I still hold a soft spot for it as it was my entry point game into ancients.
Quote from: Gusington on May 08, 2012, 09:38:26 AM
^Got it. Spartan interests me more though :)
And you were right Bison, Hegemony is good for a week or two, then it gets a little repetitive. Hopefully the Roman game will open up a bit.
I still hold a soft spot for it as it was my entry point game into ancients.
Some of the most requests for the sequel were adding more economy/building gameplay to it. I also hope they improved the diplomacy past the 'Bribery or we attack' stage. If those two are improved, then it's a win.
I hope they flesh out the new factions a little more.