http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/06/afghan-kills-nato-soldier.html
I really think it's time we let these bastards get back to killing one another and take any NATO troops out. Air strikes as required may be the best approach.
Quote from: MIGMaster on May 07, 2012, 06:29:03 AM
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I really think it's time we let these bastards get back to killing one another and take any NATO troops out.
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Agree completely! >:(
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Air strikes as required may be the best approach.
With 1 kT tacticals....... 8)
This kind of shit ain't gonna end until we're long gone.
There is a theory out there that says we should get out and then just send in the guns and money to let them go back to their national pastime of shooting each other.
My personal preference is to stay there and kill them until they're tired of dying, but I can see merit in the above alternative, and that gets my vote if we're going to pull out.
If I thought that we could subdue or eradicate them, that would be one thing. But since neither option is realistic, then we should leave.
leave, and talk to all clan leaders/elderly first:
We understand that you are medival ppl, so you always bow to the strongest force. That are we! We own the sky and night!
You can do as you please, we dont care, but its your responsibility to watch over your clan territory. If we detect that you dared to harbor any terrorist camps or other potential dangerous activities, we arc-light your whole clan territory with everything in it, till its the lifeless desert it deserve to be. Capiche! So its all up to you now
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The problem with leaving or supplying factions there is that is what led to 9/11 in the first place. How we solve that problem, I have no idea. The place is so corrupt and violent it just seems to drain anything good that even goes near it.
The answer would be to disengage from the Middle East. But we won't give up oil, or leave Israel to fend for itself. So then we gotta do what we gotta do. Which means putting boots on the ground when the crap gets outta hand.
The crap has been out of hand there for 100 years. Another problem is that when boots are put on the ground it just aggravates the original problem. We need to staunch the madness without creating more madness and another 20 generations of terrorists. How? Damned if I know.
AFAIK, the crap has never been 'in-hand' over there. Just varying degrees of 'out-of-hand'. Although some dictatorships have had some relative 'in-hand' successes.
Quote from: Centurion40 on May 07, 2012, 08:58:03 AM
If I thought that we could subdue or eradicate them, that would be one thing. But since neither option is realistic, then we should leave.
+1
I'm in agreement with you.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 08:34:49 AM
There is a theory out there that says we should get out and then just send in the guns and money to let them go back to their national pastime of shooting each other.
My personal preference is to stay there and kill them until they're tired of dying, but I can see merit in the above alternative, and that gets my vote if we're going to pull out.
By any chance, have you seen Charlie Wilson's War? Interesting premise based on reality. My thought is we build schools and infrastructure that require occasional American upkeep. Then we'll see how hostile they are when their power grid is on the line.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 07, 2012, 05:39:18 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 08:34:49 AM
There is a theory out there that says we should get out and then just send in the guns and money to let them go back to their national pastime of shooting each other.
My personal preference is to stay there and kill them until they're tired of dying, but I can see merit in the above alternative, and that gets my vote if we're going to pull out.
By any chance, have you seen Charlie Wilson's War? Interesting premise based on reality. My thought is we build schools and infrastructure that require occasional American upkeep. Then we'll see how hostile they are when their power grid is on the line.
I'm afraid that ship has sailed. Might have worked in the 80s.
Instead we chose to let the Sauidis and Pakis run the place as they wished. Now we are sewing the "wisdom" of said decision.
^ 100% agreed.
But I still think we can capitalize on this plan. The Taliban was like 5 steps backwards technologically and socially speaking.
I'd love to see us remake their culture in our image but I don't know how we'll do that without occupying them.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
I'd love to see us remake their culture in our image but I don't know how we'll do that without occupying them.
To reuse my old house analogy again.
If you want to rebuild a house from the ground up, you need to demolish it first. Not enough "demolition" done in Afghanistan.
For examples of successful demolition projects look at Japan, Germany.
Quote from: pawelj on May 10, 2012, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
I'd love to see us remake their culture in our image but I don't know how we'll do that without occupying them.
To reuse my old house analogy again.
If you want to rebuild a house from the ground up, you need to demolish it first. Not enough "demolition" done in Afghanistan.
For examples of successful demolition projects look at Japan, Germany.
Oh, I understand that. The problem is that Afghanistan is already a stone age culture, so bombing them back any further is a problem.
We could break their bigger rocks into smaller rocks.
There is nothing that we can do except stay away. If they were cockroaches, we could try a campaign of extermination. But they are human beings, so that option does not exist. And back in the days when attempted genocide was in vogue, the exterminators were unsuccessful in eradicating the problem.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 08:31:54 AM
Quote from: pawelj on May 10, 2012, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
I'd love to see us remake their culture in our image but I don't know how we'll do that without occupying them.
To reuse my old house analogy again.
If you want to rebuild a house from the ground up, you need to demolish it first. Not enough "demolition" done in Afghanistan.
For examples of successful demolition projects look at Japan, Germany.
Oh, I understand that. The problem is that Afghanistan is already a stone age culture, so bombing them back any further is a problem.
It's not just about bombing. It's about replacing social and cultural structures. In Afghanistan we let them recreate a Taliban-light society.
We should have dictated the constitution for starters as we did in Japan, Mac Arthur style.
Another problem is that there is zero history of any kind of Western style political freedoms.
Constitution? Thanks. Can we have 1 billion copies to use as toilet paper please? Thanks.
Actually they probably don't know WTF toilet paper is either.
Quote from: Gusington on May 10, 2012, 10:53:39 AM
Another problem is that there is zero history of any kind of Western style political freedoms.
Constitution? Thanks. Can we have 1 billion copies to use as toilet paper please? Thanks.
Actually they probably don't know WTF toilet paper is either.
Constitution is a start and lets us know who is who over there, by their attitude to it.
We know who is over there. And the past 11 years give a good cross-section of their attitude toward everything. There is no easy solution here.
Quote from: Gusington on May 10, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
We know who is over there. And the past 11 years give a good cross-section of their attitude toward everything. There is no easy solution here.
Maybe some do, but judging by the outburst from gen. Dempsey this morning, I have serious doubts.