GrogHeads Forum

IRL (In Real Life) => Current Events => Topic started by: OJsDad on July 06, 2015, 02:31:09 PM

Title: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: OJsDad on July 06, 2015, 02:31:09 PM
The Chinese central bank is getting ready to inject large sums of money into their markets due the big selloffs and volatility that they  have been seeing the last month.  Is it possible that their economy isn't as strong as they have been claiming.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on July 06, 2015, 02:46:57 PM
All the crooks from China are laundering their money here in Vancouver and driving the housing market through the roof by snapping up every single piece of property, sight unseen.

They see it as a safe haven as the PRC can't get seize the property like they can in China. 
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: OJsDad on July 06, 2015, 03:05:39 PM
They're doing the same thing in the US.  Kind of reminds me of the late 80's/early 90's when Japanese companies could do no wrong and they were making lots of land purchases.  They're still trying to recover.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: airboy on July 06, 2015, 05:26:02 PM
China does not have clear rule of law or transparent accounting.  That makes for big risks.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Steelgrave on July 06, 2015, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 06, 2015, 03:05:39 PM
They're doing the same thing in the US.  Kind of reminds me of the late 80's/early 90's when Japanese companies could do no wrong and they were making lots of land purchases.  They're still trying to recover.

Let's hope it works out as well for the Chinese then   8)
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: mirth on July 06, 2015, 10:11:00 PM
Let's welcome China to the modern free-market. Suck-it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/07/business/dealbook/chinese-mom-and-pop-investors-who-borrowed-are-hit-hard.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Anyone who borrows money to invest in stocks is a sucker.  Might as well take it to Vegas.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: jomni on July 07, 2015, 08:14:26 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 06, 2015, 10:11:00 PM
Let's welcome China to the modern free-market. Suck-it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/07/business/dealbook/chinese-mom-and-pop-investors-who-borrowed-are-hit-hard.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Anyone who borrows money to invest in stocks is a sucker.  Might as well take it to Vegas.

Yes. The current crash is due to (Made worse by) leverage.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 10:00:19 AM
3 Trillion in paper losses.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33440565

Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: mirth on July 08, 2015, 10:22:05 AM
Ugly, very ugly.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: LongBlade on July 08, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
And they're doing *everything* wrong. Halting trading, protecting companies' stock prices, pouring tons of money into the market trying to hold it up.

Not only is this bad in the short term, but the long term damage to the market's integrity will keep international capital out for a long time.

The reason China is trying to hold back the collapse is because they've got some 90 million locals who are invested in the market and they're afraid of domestic unrest "if" the market collapses.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 06:35:36 PM
Chinese love to gamble. If they had put in any rules , it should have been a max % of their wealth they could hang out in the wind.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: jomni on July 09, 2015, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 10:00:19 AM
3 Trillion in paper losses.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33440565

It's paper anyway. :P
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 09, 2015, 01:11:20 AM
Quote from: jomni on July 09, 2015, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 10:00:19 AM
3 Trillion in paper losses.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33440565

It's paper anyway. :P

They invented it, they can deal with it.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: mirth on July 09, 2015, 07:32:47 AM
I thought it was a Russian inwention.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: JasonPratt on July 09, 2015, 10:18:02 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 09, 2015, 07:32:47 AM
I thought it was a Russian inwention.

I was about to joke about the huge border shared between Russia and China; but then I saw what you did there.  ^-^
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: OJsDad on August 21, 2015, 03:34:28 PM
All three major US stock markets were down over 3% today.  For the DOW, that's over 500 points, on top of the over 300 it lost yesterday.  Oil dipped just below $40, though it did finish above by $0.25.  All commodities are down, and have been down.  Is this just corrections or are there real issues in the world economy?
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: LongBlade on August 21, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
Real issues are on the horizon.

Virtually all the major economies have exhausted the economic arrows in their quivers - interest rates are near zero for their (our) central banks. In some cases interest rates have gone negative.

The Chinese economy is sputtering to a halt. Nations holding the major currencies have been printing money like it didn't matter. The Chinese are about to enter that game. When they do it will most likely trigger a deflationary spiral.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Boggit on September 05, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on August 21, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
Real issues are on the horizon.

Virtually all the major economies have exhausted the economic arrows in their quivers - interest rates are near zero for their (our) central banks. In some cases interest rates have gone negative.

The Chinese economy is sputtering to a halt. Nations holding the major currencies have been printing money like it didn't matter. The Chinese are about to enter that game. When they do it will most likely trigger a deflationary spiral.
Should we be surprised that bad things happen when all the eggs are in one basket. It's time for the rest of the world to sit up and take a good look at the spread and diversity of their own economies. Overwhelmingly, the West is increasingly relying on the financial and service sectors. Manufacturing, (and agriculture too) could do with a lot more love from our own governments to end over-reliance on sector giants like China.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 05, 2015, 10:13:39 AM
without CHinese food my people would starve.   :(
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: LongBlade on September 05, 2015, 10:51:32 AM
Quote from: Boggit on September 05, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on August 21, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
Real issues are on the horizon.

Virtually all the major economies have exhausted the economic arrows in their quivers - interest rates are near zero for their (our) central banks. In some cases interest rates have gone negative.

The Chinese economy is sputtering to a halt. Nations holding the major currencies have been printing money like it didn't matter. The Chinese are about to enter that game. When they do it will most likely trigger a deflationary spiral.
Should we be surprised that bad things happen when all the eggs are in one basket. It's time for the rest of the world to sit up and take a good look at the spread and diversity of their own economies. Overwhelmingly, the West is increasingly relying on the financial and service sectors. Manufacturing, (and agriculture too) could do with a lot more love from our own governments to end over-reliance on sector giants like China.

I hear you.

However, the situation isn't quite as cut and dried as that.

Some Chinese manufacturing has already begun to be outsourced to cheaper places like Vietnam. Why? Wages are rising in China (as they should in an industrializing economy).

Also, some jobs are coming back to the US. Why? We're creating less labor intensive and more efficient methods to make stuff. Also, the value of the dollar fluctuates and has fallen. Companies like Toyota and BMW are now using US labor to make cars here because it's cheaper.

The "service" critique is murkier. When theory meets practice there aren't always immediate happy endings. Workers being displaced means they lose their jobs. However, that also means that instead of making buggy whips they can start to enter a new phase where different goods and services are being produced. In the past it probably looked like doom and gloom when the hand-made horse and carriage jobs were being wiped out. But what replaced them? Model Ts. Then Chevys and Lincolns and Mercedes. Something else will replace those jobs/industries. It already is: high tech, biotech, etc.
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on September 05, 2015, 10:55:40 AM
Title: Re: Forget Greece, what happening in China
Post by: endfire79 on September 05, 2015, 11:04:00 AM
I've seen massive Samsung plants during my last trip to Vietnam.  Likewise, clothing has also moved down to the southeast. 

Manufacturing will go to places where the labor is cheaper. The alternative is further automation, which is already happening.