We have some significant law enforcement issues in this country
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandra-bland-death-officials-say-glitch-not-editing-caused-video-n396461
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/us/sandra-bland-was-combative-texas-arrest-report-says.html
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 10:41:01 AM
We have some significant law enforcement issues in this country
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandra-bland-death-officials-say-glitch-not-editing-caused-video-n396461
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/us/sandra-bland-was-combative-texas-arrest-report-says.html
Yes we do. A week from now, some new police-related incident will take the place of Bland's death in the news. We're seeing evidence of an epidemic in blue. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/07/taking_aim_at_cops_shoot-first_culture_126874.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/07/taking_aim_at_cops_shoot-first_culture_126874.html)
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 22, 2015, 10:46:57 AM
Yes we do. A week from now, some new police-related incident will take the place of Bland's death in the news. We're seeing evidence of an epidemic in blue. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/07/taking_aim_at_cops_shoot-first_culture_126874.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/07/taking_aim_at_cops_shoot-first_culture_126874.html)
That's frightening shit, man. I'm far more afraid of the cops these days, than criminals.
Well if she had JUST used her turn signal...I mean, really, how hard is it to use one?
(Sorry, that was meant more in jest. Though I lean more towards what mirth and Steelie are saying nowadays, I still think if people just obey simple traffic laws and do NOT give cops attitude, they'll still be alive in the morning. A LOT of cops are good guys and gals, but more than a few have ego issues, and when people give them lip, they escalate it like a bad parent. So don't give them lip or a reason to be a-holes.)
A. I believe what she said about the cop speeding up and tailgating her. I've had that happen many times.
B. He asked her why she was irritated and she told him. It didn't sound like she was paticularly disrespectful, just blunt and honest.
C. Her refusing to put out her cigarette was not grounds for the cop to force her from the vehicle. And he escalated the situation from there.
Regardless of what happened after she was taken to jail (and there are apparently lots of questions about that). She should have never been taken into custody in the first place.
I should have been clearer - this particular incident is why I'm starting to see some cops are out of control. She should have called her lawyer...don't know if she had that chance or not. This guy might have shot her if she had tried to make a call...he seems like an absolute egotistical jerkoff.
After watching that video and reading how the officer wrote it up in his arrest report, I seriously question that she committed suicide.
She told whomever she called, she thought he broke her arm. For not signaling? When he realised he would be exposed, he decided to kill her.
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
Video taken by a bystander, capturing some of what happened on the roadside (out of frame from the cop's dashcam).
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
If it was somebody doing stuff to hurt others, i would have no problem with the take down. Gang banger or career crook, some pain is in order. This was basically a woman that was not in awe of the authority of the officer. He decided her face needed to be in the dirt for it. Then it really got out of hand.
I am glad i never became a cop. The hiring challenge is getting enough people with the willingness to take down the serious criminals, without being, or developing into, angry guys wanting to lash out.
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
A bad mood does not justify the treatment Sandra Bland received. Up to the point the officer decided to force her from her car (for not putting out a cigarette), she seemed fairly calm and reasonable.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 12:34:15 PM
I am glad i never became a cop. The hiring challenge is getting enough people with the willingness to take down the serious criminals, without being, or developing into, angry guys wanting to lash out.
I almost became one myself, in San Marcos no less. I was at the top of the FTO's list but when he did my background check, the optometrist told him I couldn't wear contacts (I couldn't, in truth), which pretty much put me out of consideration. Any further thought of becoming a cop went bye-bye when I was married, because my wife told me she couldn't be with someone that did that for a living. I'm okay with not being a cop though I wasted a lot of time getting a CJ degree.
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
I disagree. I always have respect for officers, up until i think they are not behaving honourably. Then my first emotion is disappointment.
It is the duty of someone in uniform to behave
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
A bad mood does not justify the treatment Sandra Bland received. Up to the point the officer decided to force her from her car (for not putting out a cigarette), she seemed fairly calm and reasonable.
i agree, but, forgive me, youre black with a white policeman pulling you over..... when he says put the cigarette out, just put the cigarette out - im not saying its right, but id rather shed put up with a bit of humiliation than been hung by a carrier bag in her cell
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 12:47:06 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
I disagree. I always have respect for officers, up until i think they are not behaving honourably. Then my first emotion is disappointment.
It is the duty of someone in uniform to behave
i agree Bigs, but theres disappointment and theres attitude, poorly perceived by him i know - but theres a c*** with a gun daring you to pick a fight, just dont!
Browser is hoing haywire.
Behave professionally. Citizens are not dogs that you can kick if you are having a bad day.
If he was dealing with a real nasty person fine. It seems to me she was pissed at being pulled over for no turn signal. To her it was a money making ticket.
Which means anyone can be dragged out of their car then hung.
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:49:11 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
The whole incident is really about him wanting her to submit to him.
That's my take on it as well. Complete ego trip on his part
be that the case, surely it takes a bit of common sense to think 'oooo fk, this ones in a bad mood, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' and we all go home safe
A bad mood does not justify the treatment Sandra Bland received. Up to the point the officer decided to force her from her car (for not putting out a cigarette), she seemed fairly calm and reasonable.
i agree, but, forgive me, youre black with a white policeman pulling you over..... when he says put the cigarette out, just put the cigarette out - im not saying its right, but id rather shed put up with a bit of humiliation than been hung by a carrier bag in her cell
Black, white or anything else, you shouldn't have to worry about that being the outcome. The fact that we've seen a number of similar situations around the U.S. is an indication that there are serious problems with how law enforcement officers are interacting with the citizenry. The use of force is out-of-balance and costing lives needlessly.
agree with all of that, im just saying, when those news headlines are still fresh in everyones minds, until the police/goverment/state get it sorted - just dont do anything to piss them off
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 22, 2015, 12:57:34 PM
agree with all of that, im just saying, when those news headlines are still fresh in everyones minds, until the police/goverment/state get it sorted - just dont do anything to piss them off
I hear ya. Anytime I have had personal experience with law enforcement, I have been extremely polite and careful of my behavior. I fully understand it would be all too easy to find myself on the ground with a face full of asphalt.
The other problem, specific to us cultural experience, is hanging a black person seems like it might be a symbolic lynching.
Professionally does not mean with kid gloves btw. A samurai would often cleave the perp in two. Maybe a bit extreme in our culture, but maybe not. Depends on what the person is doing and their perceived intent.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 12:53:09 PM
Browser is hoing haywire.
Mine's acting a bit wonky, too.
Too bad there's not a 1st and 4th amendment to protect freedom of assembly, free speech, and protections from unreasonably spying.
Maybe the internet is seen as global, therefore jurisdictionless.
Quote from: LongBlade on July 22, 2015, 01:29:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 12:53:09 PM
Browser is hoing haywire.
Mine's acting a bit wonky, too.
Too bad there's not a 1st and 4th amendment to protect freedom of assembly, free speech, and protections from unreasonably spying.
Firefox has been very flukey lately. I'm not sure the latest release is all that stable. Things have seemed wonky since they started automatically disabling Flash.
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Firefox has been very flukey lately. I'm not sure the latest release is all that stable. Things have seemed wonky since they started automatically disabling Flash.
Fair enough.
And I have reenabled Flash so I could watch some vids on Amazon Prime, so there's that.
I got pulled over two weeks ago for speeding by a NJ state trooper on our way to PA to pick up our new dog.
The trooper was a total dick for the first five seconds - but I just did what I was told, complied and he turned out to be a deceng guy and knocked my speeding violation down from 82 in a 55 to some BS violation that only cost me 50.00.
This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...
That's just it, based on that video I don't see where Sandra Bland was out of line. Yes she apparently was visibly irritated, but who wouldn't be under those circumstances?
The cop asked her about it and she answered. What I heard from her in that video sounded quite reasonable. She told him why she was irritated. She wasn't screaming or using profanity at that point. That happened after she was forced from the car.
Basically she was pulled from the car, manhandled and arrested for refusing to put out a cigarette. Not exactly something that warranted the response it got.
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
I got pulled over two weeks ago for speeding by a NJ state trooper on our way to PA to pick up our new dog.
The trooper was a total dick for the first five seconds - but I just did what I was told, complied and he turned out to be a deceng guy and knocked my speeding violation down from 82 in a 55 to some BS violation that only cost me 50.00.
This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...
in a totally non 'why are you such a twat' way i asked a traffic policeman why 'they were such twats' and he said they get out of the car with an attitude problem because 9999.99% of the time the person they were about to address was going to have a bad attitude so they may as well up their game before the confrontation starts
How many of the signers of the US Constitution would have a "bad experience" in a traffic stop today?
Maybe the "Boston Massacre" is the answer that not much has changed?
Everyone needs to get laid and drink a beer before we all kill each other.
Citizens shouldn't have to behave like they're dealing with the Gestapo during a routine traffic stop. Keep cool, act respectful? Yes. Fear for your life? No.
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 02:41:33 PM
Everyone needs to get laid and drink a beer before we all kill each other.
Tru dat.
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 02:41:33 PM
Everyone needs to get laid and drink a beer before we all kill each other.
Failing that,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Masturbation_Day
Though every day should be National Masturbation Day. :D
I'm quite calm, this is an intellectual exploration issue for me. It's unfortunate I probably know about 4x as much US history as the average US college student.
I think Gus meant that folks need to chill on a national level in the US.
Yes that.
And masturbation is good for your 'Muricanosity.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on July 22, 2015, 02:44:28 PM
Though every day should be National Masturbation Day. :D
who says it isnt :D
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...
+1
I can't speak to what went wrong with the Bland stop - I only know what you guys have posted.
But in general it's best to swallow your pride and let the cops do their job. Never had a problem yet.
A "glitch-free" version of the video has been released.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-new-sandra-bland-video--20150722-story.html
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...
Well I have. And I'm white, 55, and never given a cop lip in my life. But the Barney Fife who pulled my wife and I over when we were taking my 98 year old great aunt home from the hospital treated us like terrorists because I was doing five over the limit,
then came within moments of beating my ass because he misunderstood an answer I gave. I agree that you need to be polite and follow lawful orders, but let's not believe that those things alone will deter a bad cop with an attitude. I've known many good cops and been related to quite a few, but I've also been there to see a very violent, corrupt cop physically fight a good cop who was trying to calm him down, and I listened to a retired Chicago cop brag about all the drugs his unit planted because somehow he thought I was a kindred soul.
Seriously.....how many videos do we have to see of cops beating a person half to death while yelling "stop resisting"? And where would this discussion even be without videos?
Just for the sake of argument......check out http://photographyisnotacrime.com/ (http://photographyisnotacrime.com/) sometimes. Believe me, the stuff you see in the mainstream media is just the tip of the blue iceberg.
I'm not defending bad cops. I'm also not defending run of the mill civilian assholes. There are jerkoffs everywhere.
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 07:43:01 PM
I'm not defending bad cops. I'm also not defending run of the mill civilian assholes. There are jerkoffs everywhere.
I know you're not, Gus. Cameras are the best thing to happen to policing and hopefully are opening our eyes. More often than not, they exonerate good cops who have frivilous charges thrown at them. And the times when bad cops are caught on tape, that's when blue has to clean shop and our juries need to drop the hammer on someone who abuses their authority.
^Well said, Steelie.
The cop in this case was definitely out of order. But...BUT...Bland wasn't being particularly cooperative either. Which leads me back to what I originally posted...don't be a dick and there's less of a chance you'll end up injured or dead.
I just finished watching The Boys from Brazil on Amazon Prime.
There's a fine lesson in there about how to deal with hate. Wish more folks would learn that lesson.
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 02:41:33 PM
Everyone needs to get laid and drink a beer before we all kill each other.
If I recall correctly, those are two of the biggest contributors to murder... ;)
Legal analysis of the stop
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/20/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-videos-maps.html
Failure to use a turn signal in Texas is indeed an arrestable offense, but as there are thousands of morons here that either cannot wrap their head around how a turn signal works, or are too lazy to actually spend the energy to do it, it's surprising that more don't get pulled over for it. It would be a gold mine of ticket income for the city and county.
That was an interesting analysis. Seems that the cop technically had reasons to order her out of the car and arrest her, though all are pretty thin when compared to what really happens in the real world.
Also, her family saying she would never kill herself - well, I hate to say it, but a lot of families of suicides say the same thing. It came out yesterday or the day before that Ms. Bland admitted to trying to kill herself a year ago. I doubt the cops hung her but it would be horrifying if this was actually proven to have happened.
There would have to be a motive for the suicide. You could guess she feared the arrest would make her lose her new job. How many will suicide over a job loss? People lose jobs all the time. You also have to consider she said she cannot wait to go to court. That is not a weak person. She was out to bury the officer (legally) so he buried her literally.
[Sarcasm on] See, if she had learned to say "Yessum Master!" she would be ok. The equivalent for the other races, such as Danke, herr Stormtrooper! Allow me to lick my blood off your fine boots, herr Stormtrooper. [Sarcasm off]
I don't think so.
It seems to me that 3 things are required:
Annual psych evals
Undercover minor offense testing to prove 99.9% of police encounters are done properly.
A 6 month vacation cycle or transfer to low hostility areas to give the officers time to unwind.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 23, 2015, 10:20:51 AM
There would have to be a motive for the suicide. You could guess she feared the arrest would make her lose her new job. How many will suicide over a job loss? People lose jobs all the time. You also have to consider she said she cannot wait to go to court. That is not a weak person. She was out to bury the officer (legally) so he buried her literally.
[Sarcasm on] See, if she had learned to say "Yessum Master!" she would be ok. The equivalent for the other races, such as Danke, herr Stormtrooper! Allow me to lick my blood off your fine boots, herr Stormtrooper. [Sarcasm off]
I don't think so.
well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.
You're right. Better that she's dead. ::)
A post-natal suicide attempt is quite often a singular event and does not necessarily indicate suicidal tendencies. And as far as bail goes, is it not possible that her family simply did not have the money? If you've read otherwise, I missed it.
One has to echo her words in the phone call when she asked, "how did a traffic stop come to this"?
If, as the jailers claim, she admitted to a suicide attempt during processing, why weren't precautions taken to reduce the chances an attempt in the cell would be successful? Why wasn't she checked regularly in her cell? There's a lot of questions about the whole thing, beyond the mishandled traffic stop.
I would think that a woman wanting to hang herself would use her bra or her pants. A trash bag being strong enough would never occur to most people. As for lack of struggle marks at the neck, wouldn't most people start to fight for life when they are choking? My guess is she was cuffed or sat on on the floor. The bag was put over her head to suffocate her when she was immobilized.
You'd be surprised with hanging and how easy it is to accomplish. I saw more than a few victims when I worked off an ambulance. It's somewhat funny (not in a comedic way, of course) how hanging victims usually put themselves in such a position where they cannot recover; more than a few have that 'struggle moment' where they probably thought, "what the hell am I doing?" and try to stop it, but that's not often something that happens. If they know what they're doing, they can knock themselves unconscious so they're not able to recover.
I say 'funny' because if you've ever heard anything about the suicide jumpers that step off of the Golden Gate Bridge ('The Bridge' is a fascinating and disturbing documentary about such suicides and attempts), you might have heard that those that actually survive, as soon as they step off, immediately regret it and wish they had not. I can only imagine that happens with anyone going through with it...but I don't know, I'm no expert.
Look at Robin William's suspension hanging suicide - that method was unfortunately rather simple. All one needs to do is sit up straight to stop it, but the way he did it, it brought unconsciousness first, then death. I'm thinking this might have happened to Ms. Bland too, though obviously I don't know for sure what happened.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 02:45:14 PM
I'm quite calm, this is an intellectual exploration issue for me. It's unfortunate I probably know about 4x as much US history as the average US college student.
By 4x you mean - Xplore Xpand Xploit and Xterminate! How else can you run a space program? :2funny:
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 22, 2015, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...
Well I have. And I'm white, 55, and never given a cop lip in my life. But the Barney Fife who pulled my wife and I over when we were taking my 98 year old great aunt home from the hospital treated us like terrorists because I was doing five over the limit, then came within moments of beating my ass because he misunderstood an answer I gave. I agree that you need to be polite and follow lawful orders, but let's not believe that those things alone will deter a bad cop with an attitude. I've known many good cops and been related to quite a few, but I've also been there to see a very violent, corrupt cop physically fight a good cop who was trying to calm him down, and I listened to a retired Chicago cop brag about all the drugs his unit planted because somehow he thought I was a kindred soul.
Seriously.....how many videos do we have to see of cops beating a person half to death while yelling "stop resisting"? And where would this discussion even be without videos?
Just for the sake of argument......check out http://photographyisnotacrime.com/ (http://photographyisnotacrime.com/) sometimes. Believe me, the stuff you see in the mainstream media is just the tip of the blue iceberg.
There's plenty of excellent cops out there, but there's always a few complete arseholes, zealots and the like who shouldn't be in the job. It is a failure of the recruitment and training system that they remain in the job. Clean up the system so it is more robust and you'll start to get the right people with the right attitude. I know there are issues in recruitment, and proper monitoring, but unless it is done who guards the guardians? You can't have a gestapo attitude if you want to have the public work with you. However you look at it, police officers are public servants not the other way around. I'm not saying they should silently take abuse, but they should act professionally and not on whim.
Quote from: Boggit on July 24, 2015, 11:04:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 22, 2015, 02:45:14 PM
I'm quite calm, this is an intellectual exploration issue for me. It's unfortunate I probably know about 4x as much US history as the average US college student.
By 4x you mean - Xplore Xpand Xploit and Xterminate! How else can you run a space program? :2funny:
You got it. Btw, M31 is mine. I am here on vacation. :-p
Quote from: mirth on July 24, 2015, 04:43:38 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.
You're right. Better that she's dead. ::)
now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 12:21:19 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 24, 2015, 04:43:38 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.
You're right. Better that she's dead. ::)
now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?
I was reacting to your sarcastic comment about her being a 'wonderful person'. Who said she was? What difference does it make? If she wasn't a 'wonderful person' does it make it okay for her to have been treated the way she was in during the traffic stop. Did she get what she had coming?
Quote from: mirth on July 24, 2015, 05:18:32 PM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 12:21:19 PM
Quote from: mirth on July 24, 2015, 04:43:38 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 24, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.
You're right. Better that she's dead. ::)
now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?
I was reacting to your sarcastic comment about her being a 'wonderful person'. Who said she was? What difference does it make? If she wasn't a 'wonderful person' does it make it okay for her to have been treated the way she was in during the traffic stop. Did she get what she had coming?
uhm I gave some concrete examples on why she probably commited suicide. how is that being sarcastic ?
The only place I was being anywhere near sarcastic was in response to her Family WHO now cries because she was such a wonderfull person, but when she needed their help they refused. And yes I think they are scumbags just in case your wondering. First because they didnt want to help her and now they got all dollarsigns in their eyes.
Not specifically related to this case, but I just wanted to speak against some of the misconceptions about suicide. It is NOT a rational act. Successful people with no apparent reason kill themselves all the time. It's a major issue we're dealing with in the Army right now. I lost a friend after my last trip to Afghanistan. She was a very successful officer, going places in the army, hadn't seen anything particularly bad, involved in a good church and bible study with people who cared about her. But she struggled with depression and one night a few months after our brigade cam home she decided to end her life. No logical reason or motive. There is a lot more going on inside people's hearts and minds than just a rational weighing of their circumstances.
Specific to this case, probably the cop was out of line, who knows why. Unacceptable, in any regard. We should expect high standards of our law enforcement, and they should expect it of each other (I think they usually do, under increasingly trying circumstances. But I just think it is a really far leap from admitting that the cop was out of line to assuming that he murdered the woman in her cell. The DA didn't find any reason to prosecute, and while I sure that isn't a airtight indication of innocence, in this day and age it seems this sort of case is more likely than not to err on the side of going to trial.
Anyway, just wanted to give my to cents about the suicide issue.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on July 25, 2015, 09:21:03 AM
Not specifically related to this case, but I just wanted to speak against some of the misconceptions about suicide. It is NOT a rational act. Successful people with no apparent reason kill themselves all the time. It's a major issue we're dealing with in the Army right now. I lost a friend after my last trip to Afghanistan. She was a very successful officer, going places in the army, hadn't seen anything particularly bad, involved in a good church and bible study with people who cared about her. But she struggled with depression and one night a few months after our brigade cam home she decided to end her life. No logical reason or motive. There is a lot more going on inside people's hearts and minds than just a rational weighing of their circumstances.
Specific to this case, probably the cop was out of line, who knows why. Unacceptable, in any regard. We should expect high standards of our law enforcement, and they should expect it of each other (I think they usually do, under increasingly trying circumstances. But I just think it is a really far leap from admitting that the cop was out of line to assuming that he murdered the woman in her cell. The DA didn't find any reason to prosecute, and while I sure that isn't a airtight indication of innocence, in this day and age it seems this sort of case is more likely than not to err on the side of going to trial.
Anyway, just wanted to give my to cents about the suicide issue.
Excellent points all the way around.
That said, this is a curious circumstance and I think some kind of independent investigation outside of the local DA is warranted.
There was a movie about the PTSD, reajustment problems of people returning to normal life. I don't remember the name of it.
I watched a video last night on youtube about the female inmates of Detroit's prison system. One woman was released after begging for a last chance. First day out she gets scared, not knowing how to cope off the streets, so she goes back to some nasty lifestyle. She gets thrown back in jail and finds out her first day out her stupidity got her hep C. She will be dead in 6 months without a liver transplant, which is not going to happen.
How many people cannot cope with being un-institutionalized? Im guessing her life was structured, she knew what to do, then the door slams, she is blowing in the wind. I can imagine the stress of that. It does not seem end it worthy alone, but on top of who knows what else...
^Very good point.
The medical examiner confirmed that the death was a suicide.
I'm guessing there will be a wrongful death suit plus the Obama Justice Department will probably get involved. So I'm thinking that the medical examiner attempted to be a thorough as possible knowing their judgment was going to be second guessed by experts.
This country is lost.
^How could Capt. 'Murica really think that?
There is unfortunately very little to be positive about these days.
I agree. But all cannot be lost. We can't accept that.
The wonderful thing about the future is that it is not written yet.
Quote from: Gusington on July 26, 2015, 09:51:43 PM
I agree. But all cannot be lost. We can't accept that.
No. Ideas still win.
You have to put ideas in the media. Only money does that these days.