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IRL (In Real Life) => Enigmas of the Mystical => Topic started by: JasonPratt on July 30, 2015, 08:33:26 AM

Title: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on July 30, 2015, 08:33:26 AM
This is just me poking fun at myself. As I was walking around outside the factory between the offices and the warehouse this morning, enjoying the greenery around us, and the deep blue sky, and the cool temperatures, and the low humidity, and a general lack of allergies, with just a touch of end-of-year smell in the air, I was thinking to myself, "Yay, fall his here! I love autumn soooo much, it's my favorite time of year, and it's here again at last, yaaaayyy, sigh..."  :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:

Then I came inside and sat down at the desk and went back to plotting when and how various projects could be completed before...

uh...

oh, yeah.

It's only July 30th.

:crazy2:

Not that I'm complaining about it feeling like fall already outside. Yesterday was the hottest day of the year so far in West Tennessee -- according to one weather station (which I have some doubts about), 106 degrees and a heat index of 135 when we sent the guys home early afternoon.  :o

But man, I was ready to weep manly tears for fall being here again at last a few minutes ago; and now I'm bummed we've got all of August and some of September still to go.  :buck2:

Anyone else having an early autumn experience today/this week?
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Centurion40 on July 30, 2015, 08:37:17 AM
I also like fall, but nope, we had a cool & rainy week.  Now the sun is shining and the temperatures are starting to climb.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: mirth on July 30, 2015, 10:34:42 AM
Been 80F or higher all week with high humidity. We're in the dog days of summer now. I look forward to autumn.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Centurion40 on July 30, 2015, 11:37:33 AM
The only reason that I don't look forward to autumn is because of what comes after it.

*actual photo from in front of my house
(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/1977079_10155317035695072_4688393549029040108_n.jpg?oh=595826c000fe6c2472d18d2771d2b42d&oe=56433BC8)
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: panzerde on July 30, 2015, 08:04:31 PM
^ I thought for a minute that was a picture of Barthheart's house right now.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:42:18 PM
I remember that pic, 40. I have a few like it of my own.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Staggerwing on July 30, 2015, 08:46:52 PM
Well, considering that Cent is nearly due west of you some of it was probably the same snow!
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:49:05 PM
Last winter was rough, but I'd take it over the swamp-like conditions I'm currently enduring. Pretty sure I have malaria.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: LongBlade on July 30, 2015, 08:55:21 PM
Daughter #2 came home today and was jumping for joy - she saw the first tree with a tip of red on it. The leaves they are a changing.

Wife #1 says it's supposed to be an el niƱo year so the winter is supposed to be mild. After the last two winters we deserve one.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
It seems like an El Nino year. It's been a weird summer. Muggy, damp, not overly hot.

A mild winter would be welcome.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Centurion40 on July 31, 2015, 07:17:45 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
It seems like an El Nino year. It's been a weird summer. Muggy, damp, not overly hot.

A mild winter would be welcome.

It's been a fairly temperate summer for us too.  Not overly (no more than usual) muggy.  But we are entering the bloom of fruit fly season, which comes at the most humid time of the year.

Regarding the winter, I am hopeful that global climate change will bring us Carolina-esque or Bermuda-esque weather before I die.  I still want a palm tree in my back yard.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 31, 2015, 09:33:25 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:49:05 PMPretty sure I have malaria.

that's the hangover
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 31, 2015, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Centurion40 on July 31, 2015, 07:17:45 AMbring us Carolina-esque

there's 11 houses for sale in the neighborhood here...
just sayin'
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: mirth on July 31, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 31, 2015, 09:33:25 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 30, 2015, 08:49:05 PMPretty sure I have malaria.

that's the hangover

I think I'd rather have malaria.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Centurion40 on July 31, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 31, 2015, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Centurion40 on July 31, 2015, 07:17:45 AMbring us Carolina-esque

there's 11 houses for sale in the neighborhood here...
just sayin'

Sheeet man!  We've got 20!  :P  I just did a MLS search!
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: JasonPratt on July 31, 2015, 12:21:26 PM
C40, yeah we don't have to worry as much about the kind of snowpocalypse y'all had to deal with last year. {shiver}

Though we might have to deal with whatever made this print earlier this year when we took some glancing ice-snow blows from the nastiness up north.

Just how big does a coyote have to get before it counts as a wolf...? That thing was basically the size of something from The Howling (keeping in mind the heel would be up by my knee).
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Centurion40 on July 31, 2015, 01:05:37 PM
I swear they get that big around here, and they kill people too.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coyotes-kill-toronto-singer-in-cape-breton-1.779304
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: Staggerwing on July 31, 2015, 07:06:33 PM
You might have Coywolves- coyote-wolf hybrids on the loose:

http://www.coywolf.org/coywolf-basic-info/

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coywolf.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FFigure1RevisedFeb2013Version2-300x247.jpg&hash=da141e381eb179ee6ed59e8c99d6d94a9a3b6769)

^
QuoteMap of contemporary Canis (coyotes and wolves) in North America focusing around northeastern Coyote/Coywolf range. Note: map reflects approximate locations of locations of where various Canis can be found. Dashed lines (e.g., southern Ontario) include probable zone of hybridization between northeastern Coyotes and Eastern Wolves and western Coyotes and northeastern Coyotes. Question marks and dashed line at south edge of northeastern coyote range reflects uncertainty in mid-Atlantic United States of where northeastern Coyote range ends and southern wave of western Coyote expansion continues. Boundaries should not be considered static as there is hybridization between canids at the edges of their respective ranges.
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 08:08:31 AM
More likely coydogs, but still. Even for a Shepherd hybrid, that's getting pumpy.

(Edited to add: duh, you were probably replying to C40.  ::) )

Of course it might be a wild dog anyway -- we don't have any tame dogs this size in the neighborhood -- but I know for a fact there's a pack of coyotes living within a mile of the house; just drive down the road in front of the house in the middle of the night, out away from the edge of town into the fields, and you can hear them singing.  8)
Title: Re: I LOVE FALL! ISN'T IT GREAT WHEN FALL STARTS!? {checking calander} ...wth...?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 08:23:40 AM
Note: just did a scale double-check using my current boot, and yep that track is pushing 4", maybe more since the criteria measure from the claw tips.

Which however brings up the odd point that none of the tracks featured claw tips -- I had noticed that at the time and meant to check the morphology of the print later to see if this was some kind of bobcat instead, but somehow never got around to it. Project for this morning?
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 08:28:44 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlifelandtrust.org%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fdiy-images%2Fdiy-coyote-tracks.jpg&hash=2b14a0d656f6a6ddfb20488ad9266cf391482874)

That is 100% not a coyote track, or dog track either. I mean, the jpg there is, but my photo isn't.

(Updated to add photo for ease of reference. Crap, my old browser at the office doesn't like imageshack...)
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: LongBlade on August 01, 2015, 08:36:04 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 08:28:44 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlifelandtrust.org%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fdiy-images%2Fdiy-coyote-tracks.jpg&hash=2b14a0d656f6a6ddfb20488ad9266cf391482874)

That is 100% not a coyote track, or dog track either. I mean, the jpg there is, but my photo isn't.

(Updated to add photo for ease of reference. Crap, my old browser at the office doesn't like imageshack...)

At the risk of derailing this thread with cryptozoology (rather than boobs) I will toss out that that during some show or another discussing Bigfoot et al I picked up some trivia about footprints in the snow. Snow has a tendency to expand the size of a footprint over time. How much I'm not sure I ever knew. However, before we conclude 100% that this is some wolf-mastadon hybrid, I would suggest you dig a bit into the snow expansion dealio and cross reference that against how old you think the footprint is. That said, if you walked the trail the day before and the footprint wasn't there, then I would conclude it's probably the exact size rather than artificially expanded by time.
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 08:55:39 AM
LB, yes I know, and a point worth considering for morphology.

Those tracks were, at the time of photo, laid down the night before, though after the precipitation had finished as can be seen. This happened in late February, so I'm not in a position to tell anymore what the difference in time after precipitation was compared to the time I took the photo, which was mid-morning (I probably wasn't even awake when it finished falling), but definitely within 12 hours, most of which were dark, all of which were still below zero. Highly overcast that day (as can be seen from the relative color which I can testify from memory is accurate; also I remember the overcast), so no chance of melting from a side effect of albedo (where sunlight bounces off the white snow/ice and doesn't convert to heat energy, but reaaaallly bright sunlight might push some conversion over the freezing point, including into estivation directly into steam. Two semesters of meteorology in college. ;) )

Under the precipitation is fairly light-colored concrete, namely the sidewalk in front of our house. Heat creep from under the precip through the ground from being near the house is not likely in this case.

Particulate as you can see is very fine, and laid down in a non-fluffy fashion; or not there anyway (I have photos of fluffy snow elsewhere from the same few minutes including high drift). Underneath is about an inch of ice. I wish I had taken photos of my own footprints afterward for comparison, but my admittedly vague recollection is that (at 208 lbs + including winter clothes) I didn't impress much more, or as much, as the animal. The relative weight spread across more area from my larger feet would affect that, so that doesn't mean the animal weighed as much as me, but it's fairly heavy for its size.

I have a more distant photo showing more samples of the tracks, possibly featuring two animals. From that photo, the heel pad doesn't always look nicely round like that, but it sure happens often. I'll post that in a minute for more comparative data.
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 09:01:32 AM
Okay, this was taken a few seconds earlier; I photo'd my foot afterward on one of the clearer prints for scale.

Clicking once on the attachment should make the forum engine spread it out to 'full size', allowing a closer look at the track variants. Obviously a four-footed animal, or rather two of them unless it looped back around to trot the same direction again. (I was joking from the size about it being a 'werewolf' track earlier.) One track set may be from a smaller animal; and might even be from a different animal? (Based on the occasional difference in heel pad shape.)
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 09:03:41 AM
It doesn't seem to be canid/lupine, and doesn't seem to be feline. A cougar was hit on the road about a dozen miles north-northeast of that photo a few years ago, so cougars are entirely possibly in the area. But this doesn't fit cougar tracks, or so the internet tells me. ;) These are from Purdue University in Indiana.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fredfoxtracks.gif&hash=545a23c0fc9be9ba1fbbb0da2eed347d635510b5)

We have red foxes around occasionally, too, but not fox.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fbobcattracks.gif&hash=76ce2b41e7a411f6b0024583d415e497d588996b)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fcattracks.gif&hash=9adae8b2bcdbf7bf2e3e31c0502a0ef50d769dc2)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fmountainliontracks.gif&hash=858dc7dd287aa4d04c3db49f8cd7190720bdd81d)

Common North America wild feline tracks. Cougar/mountain lion on the bottom. Nope.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fcoyotetracks.gif&hash=4bb661a0a9f1ffc9cd3e88bc092f9ea3024cbfcc)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fdogtracks.gif&hash=ed1fc795ba779307f97c7065a2d5fd5f32dd7f2b)

Coyote and dog tracks. Of course, dog breeding might have changed the pad of the foot and the shape of the toes while reducing or eliminating claw marks. Haven't checked that yet.

We have skunks but despite their relatively close relation to cats...

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fskunktracks.gif&hash=4d2a5115cfe3874af583ff5fac1a58dea5d31650)

Nopey-nope nope.

Coon and possum are just as different again.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fopossumtracks.gif&hash=9094beb7d5d0d2f0cfbb652ad705609ac40959ed)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.ag.purdue.edu%2Fentm%2Fwildlifehotline%2Fimages%2Fmammals%2Fraccoontracks.gif&hash=488c72c2ca66ccc50356c5bef0dc80b888521a63)

Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 09:23:40 AM
Lynx is getting closer, especially since the pad shape might conceivably vary to circular on a regular basis (or so I guess from the example) but aside from not having any around here (bobcat yes, lynx I don't think so), still some clear differences.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feducation.usgs.gov%2Fkids%2Fassets%2Ftracks2.png&hash=bd884c34b19f584e22a5529df2c2d327de557250)

Only really meant to get the lynx photo there, sorry; but it includes woodchuck which I had forgotten to consider. Still nope.

Lynx kind of seems closest at the moment? If the animal was running, that might make some difference in toe marks, reduce the heel pad to a frequent circle, show a few faint claw marks perhaps as the claws poke out from various physical stresses?
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: LongBlade on August 01, 2015, 09:48:44 AM
If we're talking within the last 12 hours and sub-zero temps in my professional opinion that is a BAPP - Big Ass Paw Print.

If it were running you should see more depth at the tip of its "toes." Beyond that my tracking skills get a bit fuzzy, despite the fact that I used to watch that Canadian show with the tracker who would try to catch teams. And having stayed frequently at several Holiday Inns over the years.
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: panzerde on August 01, 2015, 09:50:16 AM
Loup Garou. Has to be.

Or Mothman.
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 01, 2015, 10:07:49 AM
Lynx is still the closest thing I can find in size (bobcat would be smaller, though of course it's also a lynx, but its prints look much more like a normal cat's) and verrrry general shapes. A lynx's dragging fur probably wouldn't affect that kind of particulate (I guess?) so its lack wouldn't count against it.

But the shapes are still weird. I'm not convinced it's a lynx, though it looks a lot more feline than canine.
Title: Re: Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?
Post by: LongBlade on August 01, 2015, 10:33:08 AM
Hmmm.

I'm sensing some information overload with you, JP.

Let's got back to the basics.

Look at the footprint. The space between the primary pad and the "fingers" is fairly narrow. The "fingers" themselves look more thumb-shaped (fat, elongated).

The shape of the pad is difficult for me to make out as the color contrast isn't the greatest. However, it sorta looks like a squished pyramid.

Based on what I'm seeing (and granted, I'm no pro and I'm sure there's plenty of room for discussion) I *think* I see prints that match the dog's front paw in this image:

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlifelandtrust.org%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fdiy-images%2Fdiy-coyote-tracks.jpg&hash=2b14a0d656f6a6ddfb20488ad9266cf391482874)

After you examine the distance between toes and pad, size, and shape what do you see?