GrogHeads Forum

I was just sitting back, waiting for a game to download from Steam the other day when I realized that my purchasing habits have changed completely. I used to be a physical copy only guy and now I don't even consider looking for a PC game in the retail brick and mortar market. I hate to admit it, but I actually like Steam. It solves all my storage and patching woes - I have to face tha fact I'm Internet dependent. If the Internet went down for any period of time 75% of my games would be inaccessible as I usually keep my system fairly clean and only install a few of the games I own at any one time.

What a total turn around for me - how times have changed! It's like the whole PC sales machine has moved online and we have moved right along with it. 

I'm in much the same boat.

I have had problems where Steam games refused to run on my system, but Steam did eventually solve the problem. It might take weeks, but they will eventually fix it.

That said, in the last couple of years I've had no complaints. Like you, Migs, I'm happy to park my unused games on Steam knowing that they'll be patched and accessible any time I want to return to them (for most it will be never).

Steam has its issues, but on balance my experience is favorable.

I am similar. Years ago I feared Steam but now I really love it. Maybe I have one issue per year with it.

Guess I'm brainwashed.

I still have -- literally -- a steamer trunk (plastic walmart version) filled with cds and game manuals stretching back to the 80's. It gets opened up about once a century when I confuse it with the steamer trunk filled with pen and paper rpg goodness.

I love Steam. I loved impulse before it. I enjoy Gamersgate. I don't miss the trunk or it's junk. Al Gore won't let the internet fail.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamesprays.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Fi-love-steam-2487_preview.jpg&hash=46533e66c4f7952a769e916321179338b6d92d27)

Like meadbelly, I have a giant plastic tote full of only CDs of games from the 90s-00s. It is heavy and worthless.

I have also switched to pretty much Digital channels only anymore. I even preordered Diablo III, which I sort of wanted in physical format, via Blizzard's digital store. The only reason I go into a brick and mortar store is to look at the used DS games (mostly to resell via eBay). The PC section is just a joke anyway, so no real reason to look there. I miss the old paper manuals, but I occasionally get a strategy guide or print out the digital manual to compensate.

I'm pretty comfortable using Steam and Gamersgate these days for game purchases. The Steam console can be kind of a pain for doing things other than running the games (for example connecting to the store through the console seems to take for ever so I end up just going to the website).

My first choice is still a physical copy, but most of my recent game purchases have been DDs.

I have no problem buying digitally.  I buy from Steam only when it's the cheapest option but I much prefer Gamersgate.   Steam's a little too intrusive for my tastes.  I don't like that it patches games for me whether I want it to or not.  I like to use mods and the patches often mess up my mods.  I know that you can set the system to ignore auto updates but every time the Steam client updates itself (which seems like a lot), it forgets my settings and starts with the auto updates again. 

I'm a bit leery of smaller digital download sites now as I've still not got access to the majority of the games I bought through D2D ever since they were taken over by GameFly.  I followed their instructions and downloaded the installer for each game, but it's useless as the activation system no longer exists. 

I run Steam in mostly offline mode for the reasons Martok and SDR identify (although I've never had a patch break a mod or a game, so that's one I'm not too worried about.)

Startup is amazingly quick in offline mode. Of course, it limits your MP awareness and capability.

The last game I really felt I wanted to have a manual at my side during play was my fairly recent re-dive into the X Universe.

Virtually all my gaming purchases these days are digital, either from Steam, GamersGate, Impulse or GOG. Since more and more games require activation on Steam there is little point in picking up a hard copy for the doubtful pleasure of owning what now passes for a manual. Long gone are the days of the manuals that shipped with the Janes sims or Falcon 4!

Yes it seems terribly old-fashioned and alot of trouble to play a game where I have to put in and take out a disk in the DVD drive. When I do play one of those dinosaurs, I often forget and leave disk in the drive and then can't find it the next time I want to play.

.

I've become a Steam fan.  Hell my brother and I use the voice chat to talk more than we do a phone 99% of the time we are not in game together.  I am starting to shy away from using so many digital download clients.  Impulse, Origins, Battlenet, Gamersgate, Matrixgames, etc....

Quote from: eyebiter on May 14, 2012, 01:09:42 PM
Gamestop is now selling Steam voucher cards.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/05/14/gamestop-cedes-to-steam-and-starts-selling-its-vouchers/

I'm actually really surprised that it took this long for these to appear. I mean, check out the massive selection of game cards you can buy for multiple MMO's, music stores , XBox Live and the like near the Best Buy checkout. Seems to me that Steam cards would fit right in.

I am quite leery of Steam and other systems that require internet activation or internet connectivity to run.  Although I buy the things (Fallout New Vegas....), I would prefer not to.  It is a big negative on a purchase decision.

I think that GOG is actually a counter to Steam.  GOG is DRM free.  No worries about activation, internet connectivity (once you download the game) etc.......   

I have seen most game companies that I bought stuff from in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s go under.  What happens when the electronic support goes away?  Answer- you are out of luck (until GOG gets it and then you are back in business).

Color me skeptical or paranoid.  But game companies are not well capitalized and tend to fold.  There are a lot of games from even 20 years ago that I still like to play (Fallout 1, CIV 2 and even the old Empire wargame).  I know that if I can get the game up using dosbox or some other workaround, that I can still play the game.  I have no such confidence for Fallout New Vegas or other games.

For this reason, I really have a preference for games that do not require an internet connection to play.  I vote my dollars in this.  After all, I know that I can play the Spiderweb games next decade.  I can play my GOG games.  I can play my old games with the CDs (if I can get a Windows 7 workaround).  My Steam Games, I lack confidence.

This is one of the reasons that I have misgivings about Panzer Corps multiplayer only being available through the Slitherine server.  I think one fine day in the next 5 to 15 years we will wake up and no more multiplayer.

If your one of the people that always goes from one game to the next, then this is no problem.  But once I invest the considerable time needed to really understand an RPG, Wargame, or Strategy Game I tend to keep playing it for years and years.  Space Empires IV is still wonderful.  My time cost is a bigger problem than the cost of the game itself by a huge margin.

I agree with much that you say, with the Total war games being the only games I play on Steam, and I don't play any other 'on-line' games since I gave up WoW 18 months ago.

Stange as it may seem, I find more and more satisfaction now in pushing round counters on a map, in part because that where my gaming roots are. I spend progresively less time playing any computer games now than I have done since I had a C64 back in the late 1970's.

Time is a big issue. There are such a vast number of electronic games available, its impossible to keep track of them, let alone try/play them, and, like most of us, I have a limited gaming budget, so have to choose carefully what I spend money on. With few exceptions, this has been a board wargame rather than a PC one for me in recent years.

As an example, I have the 3 CoH games, which I like a play a lot, but there is no way that I will buy the PC version of AtB having invested a considerable amount of cash on the board versions.

OK, I know that there are many advantages for PC versions, especially if you are unable to sit down and H2H with someone on a regular basis, and its easy to save and exit and not have to pack stuff into bags/boxes, plus a decent AI can provide a modicum of challenge, at least for a numpty like me :-)

I may have digressed here somewhat, (being a senile 'ol git), but now I definitely think twice about buying any PC game that can only be played with an internet conection.

Anyway, I got you lot buying & playing all this stuff and posting lots of interesting threads, so at least I get some insight as to whats going on in the gaming world - keep it up, boys!

I was a Steam refusenik for a very long time.  I eventually gave it a try and found that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and have made a fair number of purchases through it since.  However, apart from the ludicrous holiday sales, Steam is usually beaten on price by almost every other platform, at least here in the UK.  And they're all beaten by retail.  Say what you like about the convenience of Steam; to me, price is still a big deciding factor.  If I order one of those olde worlde disc-based games from, say, Amazon, I will save almost 50% in most cases.  Kind of a no-brainer (to me).  There are better platforms than Steam - GOG knocks it into a cocked hat, for example - and I keep hearing horror stories about losing access to your account for so much as breathing the wrong way.  (Also, I was recently without an internet connection for two weeks, and when I looked up how to activate Steam's offline mode, found I had to have it online to do so - what the hell?!)

I will also never, ever understand people who never buy a game any more unless it's on Steam.  Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.  On general principle alone, I will never allow a single entity - a corporation, no less - to be the sole gatekeeper of my games collection.  No frigging way.

I'll buy digital if it's a significant saving, if it's the only way to get the game, or if it supports a small developer.  Most of my purchases are still retail.

I've gotta say that once I finish playing a game it is extraordinarily rare for me to ever return to it.

I appreciate the fact that Steam banks my games, but the chances of me returning to them are slim. If they were lost today my life wouldn't end. I'd buy a new game and start playing it.

Financial stability is certainly a question. The great challenge of all game companies is cash flow. Whether Slitherine can sustain its growth and financial security over the next decade is something only time will tell. I, personally, wouldn't abstain from buying one of their games because I feared their PBEM servers might someday go extinct.

But again, while I liked Panzer Corps, I didn't love it, and after three days of gaming, I moved it. It was good, but not great.

I share many of the same sentiments as the rest of you.

For a very long time I was a "hard copy only" gamer.  I gave in to Steam during one of their holiday sales a few years ago and I haven't really looked back.

My apprehension with Steam is much like what Airboy describes.  I guess part of me is frightened that some day Steam will go belly up and I'll be stuck with this huge library of games that I can't play.

On the other hand, I've started giving my gaming habits a really hard look and, you know, I just can't justify this hard copy only policy I have always had.  First of all, like the OP says, it is increasingly difficult to find hard copy games anymore.  I mean, they have them at Target and Walmart and all, but if I REALLY want to find the meaty games I'm generally looking online at sites that host those types of games- Matrix for example.  Additionally, although I've always thought hard copy was the way to go, if I have to register the game on Steam for its DRM- Napoleon and ETW for example- then I can't think of one good reason to have the game in hard copy form.  And the more I game in spurts- 3 or 4 games on a Friday night for example- it's nice to not have to dig around looking for a game disk to have to swap it out for a disk check.  Lazy, but it's nice.  Perhaps the biggest thing, though, is what LB alludes to.  I have a huge jacket with about 200-300 game disks in it.  The very vast majority I will never play again.  I know that, but I still hold onto them for some reason.  Very occasionally I'll pull out an old game from that jacket and install a game I either never played, or played a long time ago.  Last weekend I installed a game called "Arthur's Knights" that I've owned for probably 10+ years but never installed.  Guess what?  It doesn't run on my computer anymore.  I'll be at least half of those 200-300 games don't work on modern operating systems; of the other half I'll bet half of those require some sort of googling to find a work around.  Who am I kidding here that I need to have a hard copy of a game so I'll always be able to play it?  Chances are my computer will outgrow most of these games at some point.  And, if I can get the game to install, and it runs, I'll be lucky if I can still find the serial number for it. 

In fact, I've gotten to the point where I'm buying games on Steam now just so I don't have to hassle with disks at all.  I actually bought the entire Total War package on Steam a few weeks ago because I just can't be bothered to look through my collection to find all of the disks for all of those games.  It's just easier to press BUY and have them all in my library of Steam games.  I click install and the computer does all the work for me.

I guess my bottom line is that I realize most of the games I buy and play now aren't going to last forever.  Some last a really long time- Falcon, WiTP, Oblivion, MTW2- but ultimately none will be with me forever.  And, if Steam goes TU tomorrow I still have years and years of games that I've barely scratched to get through.  I'm not too worried about the future, anymore. 

I used to worry about the longetivity of my game collection.  But the reality is that most games get played once, and that's it. There are a few that I play regularly, but not a whole lot of them. And clinging to games was the same as clinging to every book I'd ever read. Sure, there are a few that I'll always keep and re-read often, but most of them get passed on to friends or second hand stores these days.

I have nothing against digital downloads such as Matrix, AGEOD, GOG ...  But I do not like DRM schemes that tie my games to the survival of the developer/publisher. CDs/DVDs are fine, since they all have cracks which can be used after installing.

The one place where DRM has bit me is the iPad. You think those Apps are yours. Well, if you bought them from the USA App Store and then relocate, you are supposed to change your store. At which point, you lose everything you have purchased. I'll probably just keep a US credit card/address. However, any new iDevices may cause me to repurchase apps I already own. Compare that to my game collection which I can just use my media/installers wherever I go. Apple and its DRM is teaching me a powerful lesson in how badly DRM schemes can trash dollars you have invested in software/games. My perspective hasn't changed, but instead, been reinforced.

Lately, games i buy in boxed edition are either from Iceberg Interactive, Matrix/slitherine or from "Budget" editions of older games that do not have drms anymore.

Digital purchases are almost only on Matrix and GOG.

I have Impulse and Gamersgate but almost don't buy there anymore. I still avoid Steam (there are only few games i am interesed in anyway...i have to see if Iceberg's edition of Endless space allows to play the game without steam like they managed with Oil Rush and Revenge of the Titans).

Quote from: anguille on May 15, 2012, 03:52:14 AM
...i have to see if Iceberg's edition of Endless space allows to play the game without steam like they managed with Oil Rush and Revenge of the Titans).

I'd prefer this as well, but it sounds like we're gonna be out of luck in that regard.  I'm too lazy to go find/link the post, but one of the devs already said all versions of the game will require Steamworks (and therefore Steam itself). 

I'd love for him to be wrong/mistaken about that, but I'm not optimistic. 

Quote from: Martok on May 15, 2012, 04:13:05 AM

Quote from: anguille on May 15, 2012, 03:52:14 AM
...i have to see if Iceberg's edition of Endless space allows to play the game without steam like they managed with Oil Rush and Revenge of the Titans).

I'd prefer this as well, but it sounds like we're gonna be out of luck in that regard.  I'm too lazy to go find/link the post, but one of the devs already said all versions of the game will require Steamworks (and therefore Steam itself). 

I'd love for him to be wrong/mistaken about that, but I'm not optimistic.

Don't Oil rush and Revenge of the Titans require steamworks? I know that i cannot uptade neither of them unless i do register them to steam. I tried to find out but couldn't see which games have steamworks.

Neither Oil Rush nor RotT require Steam.  I know because I have them both in Desura and can play them just fine without Steam running.

I replay a lot of my games, especially TW games. Although I haven't played a TW game in a while. My gaming comes in waves between rpg/shooter/strategy games. Right now I am in RPG/fantasy mode.

Quote from: bob48 on May 14, 2012, 05:21:08 PM
I agree with much that you say, with the Total war games being the only games I play on Steam, and I don't play any other 'on-line' games since I gave up WoW 18 months ago.

Stange as it may seem, I find more and more satisfaction now in pushing round counters on a map, in part because that where my gaming roots are. I spend progresively less time playing any computer games now than I have done since I had a C64 back in the late 1970's.

Time is a big issue. There are such a vast number of electronic games available, its impossible to keep track of them, let alone try/play them, and, like most of us, I have a limited gaming budget, so have to choose carefully what I spend money on. With few exceptions, this has been a board wargame rather than a PC one for me in recent years.

As an example, I have the 3 CoH games, which I like a play a lot, but there is no way that I will buy the PC version of AtB having invested a considerable amount of cash on the board versions.

OK, I know that there are many advantages for PC versions, especially if you are unable to sit down and H2H with someone on a regular basis, and its easy to save and exit and not have to pack stuff into bags/boxes, plus a decent AI can provide a modicum of challenge, at least for a numpty like me :-)

I may have digressed here somewhat, (being a senile 'ol git), but now I definitely think twice about buying any PC game that can only be played with an internet conection.

Anyway, I got you lot buying & playing all this stuff and posting lots of interesting threads, so at least I get some insight as to whats going on in the gaming world - keep it up, boys!

I just pursue what interests me at the moment and if Steam works for that -- that's fine.

I agree that lately plain old physical cardboard has its attractions.

I think also that the high production values of many of today's map-and-counter games, such those produced by LnL, Academy, GMT and so on, have also made such 'physical' games more attractive to play, especially for an old git like me who started with the bland offerings of late 1960's.

Clearly, there has been a trend towards making rules much more streamlined without any great sacrifice of 'realism', although I'm sure that there are those who will disagree with that view.

I can now spend much more time actually playing a game without undue time spent looking for obscure rules, which is importand when the time factor is a real issue. An obvious comparison here is CoH v ASL. My 2 longtime (30 years) wargames buddies and I recently had a discusion about this, and we decided that maybe the outcome of a CoH firefight is just as valid as an equivalent size scenario in ASL, but takes less time and pain to play.

OK, 'realism' is a pretty subjective term amongst gamers, so again, there will be many who will say that CoH oversimplifies tactical combat, but if the end result 'feels right', and not overly unhistorical, then that's all that counts.

Nice components and easy to learn-teach-play rules have definitely been instrumental in getting me off the PC and back to the table.

QuoteOK, 'realism' is a pretty subjective term amongst gamers, so again, there will be many who will say that CoH oversimplifies tactical combat, but if the end result 'feels right', and not overly unhistorical, then that's all that counts.

That's probably one of the best definitions of "realism" in gaming that I have ever run across.

Quote from: bob48 on May 17, 2012, 01:11:22 PM
I think also that the high production values of many of today's map-and-counter games, such those produced by LnL, Academy, GMT and so on, have also made such 'physical' games more attractive to play, especially for an old git like me who started with the bland offerings of late 1960's.

I play board games solo so obscure rules are usually a pleasant surprise.  AND games are a lot prettier these days.  Plus the whole ebay thing makes for interesting and unexpected finds.  I've ended up with a lot of Harpoon 4.1, but I play it on Flying Colors hex maps.  I don't know the rules very well so there are plenty of surprises.

If you buy on ebay and try to stay cheap, you get to play lots of games that were big recent releases but that apparently aren't all that popular, which seems to be a good thing and/or right down my alley as long as I avoid the US Civil War (played enough of that) and
tactical WWII (use CMBN:CWF these days for that) or jet games (pelnty of computer simulators for that).

Also, I bought so many boardgames in the past that I can avoid things like La Bataille de Mont St. Jean for 448 dollars (I have two copies already!  I think -- someday I will go look in the barn and see if they are really there -- meanwhile the illusion suffices) and I'm very tired of Operational East Front games so I can avoid 468 dollars for an unpunched Army Group Center.  And I have no nostalgia for twentieth Century games.  Looking at old SPI games just causes me some minor vertigo.