http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/five-questions-about-the-bombing-of-a-hospital-in-kunduz
Some thoughts:
Media puts the US as the attackers. Yes it's their plane but the Afghans on the ground directed the attack. So it was not solely the US. Was it justified? They say there are OPFOR in or around the hospital.
Doctors Without Borders makes a big noise because their hospital was hit. But they didn't deny or confirm whether terrorists are in their hospital or not. Looks like are they escalating the issue from a case of collateral damage to intentional attack.
Anyway, it's a terrible event either way.
Here is the obligatory, "it's such a terrible tragedy...tsk, tsk tsk."
Now for the truth...doctors without borders...f__k them! They put a God damn hospital in the middle of a war zone. News flash! Shit happens!
This looks like either 1, an unfortunate accident, or 2, a case of direct attack on the grounds that enemy forces were occupying and engaging from within the hospital. If this the case, DWB not only knew about it, In which case, they are e ones committing criminal acts, but the hospital would have lost its immunity as a legitimate target.
Either way, this is hardly newsworthy from any perspective other than DWBs possible role in permitting the Taliban to operate from within their facilities. Now that would be one for the headlines.
War crimes my ass.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
Here is the obligatory, "it's such a terrible tragedy...tsk, tsk tsk."
Now for the truth...doctors without borders...f__k them! They put a God damn hospital in the middle of a war zone. News flash! Shit happens!
This looks like either 1, an unfortunate accident, or 2, a case of direct attack on the grounds that enemy forces were occupying and engaging from within the hospital. If this the case, DWB not only knew about it, In which case, they are e ones committing criminal acts, but the hospital would have lost its immunity as a legitimate target.
Either way, this is hardly newsworthy from any perspective other than DWBs possible role in permitting the Taliban to operate from within their facilities. Now that would be one for the headlines.
War crimes my ass.
MSF/DWB did not exactly put the hospital in the war zone, but the terrorists brought the war zone to the hospital. They are responsible for any losses that occur. If any war crime happened it was by the Taliban only. MSF needs to check his moral stand on this.
Quote from: pawelj on October 06, 2015, 07:30:11 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
Here is the obligatory, "it's such a terrible tragedy...tsk, tsk tsk."
Now for the truth...doctors without borders...f__k them! They put a God damn hospital in the middle of a war zone. News flash! Shit happens!
This looks like either 1, an unfortunate accident, or 2, a case of direct attack on the grounds that enemy forces were occupying and engaging from within the hospital. If this the case, DWB not only knew about it, In which case, they are e ones committing criminal acts, but the hospital would have lost its immunity as a legitimate target.
Either way, this is hardly newsworthy from any perspective other than DWBs possible role in permitting the Taliban to operate from within their facilities. Now that would be one for the headlines.
War crimes my ass.
MSF/DWB did not exactly put the hospital in the war zone, but the terrorists brought the war zone to the hospital. They are responsible for any losses that occur. If any war crime happened it was by the Taliban only. MSF needs to check his moral stand on this.
I do not know if that is necessarily the case. When was this particular hospital established? When did DWB set up its operations there? DWB purposely goes to war zones, easing the suffering caused by war is supposedly one of its main purposes. Either way, its irrelevant. The point is that the incident did, in fact, occur in a war zone and there is no basis to accuse the US military of committing a war crime. The allegation is preposterous.
Generally NGOs are "neutral" in that they provide services without regard to the side as a consideration. So it's entirely possible they were providing medical services to the taliban and non-combatants simultaneously.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: pawelj on October 06, 2015, 07:30:11 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
Here is the obligatory, "it's such a terrible tragedy...tsk, tsk tsk."
Now for the truth...doctors without borders...f__k them! They put a God damn hospital in the middle of a war zone. News flash! Shit happens!
This looks like either 1, an unfortunate accident, or 2, a case of direct attack on the grounds that enemy forces were occupying and engaging from within the hospital. If this the case, DWB not only knew about it, In which case, they are e ones committing criminal acts, but the hospital would have lost its immunity as a legitimate target.
Either way, this is hardly newsworthy from any perspective other than DWBs possible role in permitting the Taliban to operate from within their facilities. Now that would be one for the headlines.
War crimes my ass.
MSF/DWB did not exactly put the hospital in the war zone, but the terrorists brought the war zone to the hospital. They are responsible for any losses that occur. If any war crime happened it was by the Taliban only. MSF needs to check his moral stand on this.
I do not know if that is necessarily the case. When was this particular hospital established? When did DWB set up its operations there? DWB purposely goes to war zones, easing the suffering caused by war is supposedly one of its main purposes. Either way, its irrelevant. The point is that the incident did, in fact, occur in a war zone and there is no basis to accuse the US military of committing a war crime. The allegation is preposterous.
Kunduz was a German responsibility until last year, and I think they set up the hospital, which the MSF took over later after the Germans withdrew. Agreed that allegations of US war crime are ridiculous.
Quote from: Bison on October 06, 2015, 08:42:06 AM
Generally NGOs are "neutral" in that they provide services without regard to the side as a consideration. So it's entirely possible they were providing medical services to the taliban and non-combatants simultaneously.
Of course, but there are reports that allied forces were receiving fire from within the hospital. It is one thing to treat Taliban, its another to harbor them while they are engaged in combat operations.
Even if the strike were an accident I file this under "collateral shit happens."
It's a shame innocent lives may have been lost/injured but, as JH said, they're in a war zone.
Once again this seems to be a case of the west having weapons that are too good for the battlefield. People who expect 100% precision and 100% intelligence in war haven't ever picked up a fistfull of dice and watched a perfectly planned invasion of Russia fall to pieces by a series of bad rolls.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 09:09:23 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 06, 2015, 08:42:06 AM
Generally NGOs are "neutral" in that they provide services without regard to the side as a consideration. So it's entirely possible they were providing medical services to the taliban and non-combatants simultaneously.
Of course, but there are reports that allied forces were receiving fire from within the hospital. It is one thing to treat Taliban, its another to harbor them while they are engaged in combat operations.
I agree and that's my point. There is a rather long history of rebels, terrorists, the opposition, whatever you want to call them of using "neutral" sites as safe harbors to plan, recruit, and conduct attacks. NGO run sites like medical facilities, refugee camps, and the like are not an exception. They also use "neutral" state sites like schools, mosques, and hospitals in the same vein. Honestly without knowing the true situation on the ground, it's impossible to know why the site was struck.
Quote from: Bison on October 06, 2015, 10:56:19 AM
Honestly without knowing the true situation on the ground, it's impossible to know why the site was struck.
Wait a second...you mean the media shouldn't rush to judgment before all the facts are in? But, if they hesitate, the media may miss a golden opportunity to sway public opinion in order to suit a specific narrative or agenda. My God man, have you gone mad?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 11:10:30 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 06, 2015, 10:56:19 AM
Honestly without knowing the true situation on the ground, it's impossible to know why the site was struck.
Wait a second...you mean the media shouldn't rush to judgment before all the facts are in? But, if they hesitate, the media may miss a golden opportunity to sway public opinion in order to suit a specific narrative or agenda. My God man, have you gone mad?
I know we live in an age that abhors rational thought whose first instinct isn't to rush to a political judgement of facts before they are known.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 06, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
Either way, this is hardly newsworthy from any perspective other than DWBs possible role in permitting the Taliban to operate from within their facilities. Now that would be one for the headlines.
War crimes my ass.
Didn't Doctors Without Borders, and some UN Relief Agency, admit to Palestinian militants using at least one of their "clinics" as a base & weapons storage facility during one of the many recent conflicts with Israel?
I recall a fairly recent article about this. They got busted red-handed and had no other option than to 'fess up.
QuoteThe White House announced Tuesday that the Justice Department is investigating the U.S. airstrike on an Afghanistan hospital where aid workers were operating, as the top U.S. commander in the country said the strike was an accident.
The weekend strike in Kunduz killed at least 22 at a medical clinic run by Doctors Without Borders. U.S. officials say Afghan forces called in the strike after taking fire from Taliban fighters.
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said Tuesday "there still is more that needs to be learned" about how the attack happened, and President Obama wants a "full accounting of what transpired."
source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/06/senators-to-ask-us-general-about-troop-levels-in-afghanistan/?intcmp=hpbt1
Oh, the Justice Department :-\
I wonder when the last time was a member of the Justice Department was in Syria.
Quote from: Swatter on October 06, 2015, 07:54:23 PM
Oh, the Justice Department :-\
'Nuff said.
Those crooks seem to have been running this country for the past few years. They're just branching out.
DWB = Douches Without Borders ::)