Reports of shooting in San Bernadino California. At least 20 victims. Police looking for up to 3 suspects dressed in military gear.
Sounds like the place that was attacked provides services for mentally handicapped people.
14 confirmed dead and 14 wounded. Still looking for the shooters.
A 2nd floor conference room seems to have been targeted that was being rented by another county agency.
WTF
Deliberately murdering people who work with disabled children. At least 1 or more suspects are dead at the SUV standoff. I hope those who did this were in excruciating pain as they died. >:(
If this turns out to be terrorism and not a nut job or two...
The L.A. Times (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html) reports at least 14 people were killed and 17 wounded.
I think they're still trying to determine if the conference room was deliberately targeted b/c of who was in there, or b/c it just happened to be the highest concentration of people that they saw in the bldg.
According to here...possibly started as an argument at the party...returned with friends.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html
An argument at a party??
Got to be more Global Warming-related violence.
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 02, 2015, 11:24:49 PM
Got to be more Global Warming-related violence.
:2funny:
Some of the funny things ive heard In the last few hours from the mediots.......
"Long Rifles"
"Assault Uniforms"
Cant wait til we get to hear speeches with the words "workplace violence", "Christians", "high horse", "the Crusades" and "slavery" included. Syed Farook doesn't sound amish to me.
a 'holiday party' ? ...no its a Christmas! party
well, i bet we will never get told what kind of argument exchange really had happend at that party that blow the fuse
i am sure the media will filter and bent it into some kind of 'discrimination remarks', 'racial slur', suddenly offended by forced 'Christian shaped' candy (chocolate Nickolaus) gifts and 'season'-decoration on a as political-correct-style announced neutral party for everyone ... and so the perpetrators 'had no choice' then to follow their 'eons old' dessert tribal tradion and reforge thier clan's honor with the sword...
Married couple were the killers. I don't know why they did this, but it sounds like it was in the works for awhile.
Well, all I can say is that you don't just go to your office party, get pissed off at something while drinking punch, and run home to gear up your wife and self with guns, bombs, and fatigues you impulse-buy on the way.
I wonder if there was something more elaborate in the works (shopping mall at Christmas?) but a hotheaded 'I'll show you!!!' moment cause premature deployment.
If there actually were pipe bombs involved, then this isn't something that was spontaneous, or they were planning to use them for something else and decided this was a better time/place
You might be pissed off about something and get a gun out of your car and decide to shoot someone. But if you've got a pipe bomb, you intentionally spend a bit of time manufacturing something with an intent to attack/kill. There's nothing 'defensive' about a pipe bomb.
And it seems like they had a baby they dropped off at grandmas....hard to think you make thenchild parentless on a argument at a party...I tend to agree, seems like this was just the trigger.
Quote from: AchillesLastStand on December 03, 2015, 12:12:14 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 02, 2015, 11:24:49 PM
Got to be more Global Warming-related violence.
:2funny:
Some of the funny things ive heard In the last few hours from the mediots.......
"Long Rifles"
"Assault Uniforms"
Cant wait til we get to hear speeches with the words "workplace violence", "Christians", "high horse", "the Crusades" and "slavery" included. Syed Farook doesn't sound amish to me.
How about we move insensitive comments to the forum meant for them. Glad you guys think this is such a hoot.
Prayers for the victim's families and the survivors.
This had to be planned in advance. No way you can spontaneously get a wife ready for anything. Even shopping takes planning.
Apparently the shooters were radicalized Muslims. The male was a US citizen and his wife had a green card.
In a disappointing spasm of hate and spite, a number of liberal commentators are mocking those who asked for prayers for the victims claiming that nothing less than 100% support for more federal gun control was insincere and useless. The attacks came in California which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.
"the SUV that the suspects were in was a rental car rented three days ago."
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/2015/12/03/latest-san-bernardino-n2088637
Sounds more and more like this terrorist attack was pre-meditated and had nothing to do with any argument at an organization gathering...
Certainly seems planned...I think the question is whether the target was just the one they had an opportunity at the party or some reason it was selected...just seems connected because he worked there but who knows.
Quote from: airboy on December 03, 2015, 01:50:04 PM
Apparently the shooters were radicalized Muslims. The male was a US citizen and his wife had a green card.
In a disappointing spasm of hate and spite, a number of liberal commentators are mocking those who asked for prayers for the victims claiming that nothing less than 100% support for more federal gun control was insincere and useless. The attacks came in California which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.
My, isn't that politically inconvenient for the left? Listening to NPR this morning (because anger works better than coffee) hardly a word was spoken which might indicate this possibility. But eh, let's just overlook this bit of info, call it a workplace shooting and move closer to an executive action on gun
confiscation control.
Quote from: Steelgrave on December 03, 2015, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: airboy on December 03, 2015, 01:50:04 PM
Apparently the shooters were radicalized Muslims. The male was a US citizen and his wife had a green card.
In a disappointing spasm of hate and spite, a number of liberal commentators are mocking those who asked for prayers for the victims claiming that nothing less than 100% support for more federal gun control was insincere and useless. The attacks came in California which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.
My, isn't that politically inconvenient for the left? Listening to NPR this morning (because anger works better than coffee) hardly a word was spoken which might indicate this possibility. But eh, let's just overlook this bit of info, call it a workplace shooting and move closer to an executive action on gun confiscation control.
I stopped listening to Radio Pravda (NPR) years ago. My wife decided it was stressing me out, and got me an Audible subscription. Now I listen to books on my commute. I'm much happier.
Not only pipe bombs but thousands of rounds of ammunition.
Now admittedly, one of the in-jokes of gun culture is that a ridiculously over-huge amount of ammunition has been sold on the market; that's become sort-of normal. I know a retired medical professional in my small town who doesn't live in a bunker or anything like that, who brags about how much ammo he's bought for his few guns (his idea being that eventually buying ammo will be outlawed so he'd better get it now while he can. Like he's ever going to use much of any of it -- he doesn't even hunt.)
But I live in West TN. Not an apartment city block in San Bernadino.
I suspect we're going to find out later that they had a plan for something else, but the husband said something at the party that made people get suspicious, so rather than abort and flee he shifted targets.
Checking on some AP updates: 1600 rounds still in the SUV when it went down, 3000ish back home. Also, 12 pipe bombs back home. Also, they left three bombs on a timer back at the shooting scene, but the device malfunctioned and never went off.
One woman is testifying that when she called one of the slain victims a few weeks before the incident, she interrupted a heated discussion between him and Fayook over whether Islam was a peaceful religion. She heard Fayook saying it was and that Americans didn't understand Islam. Both men worked as restaurant inspectors; the victim, Nicholas Thalasinos, was a Messianic Jew (i.e. a Jewish Christian), and according to his wife often had what he thought were friendly discussions with Fayook on religion and politics. The victim's wife, Jennifer, said he would talk about Syed sometimes but she never heard Nicholas say anything negative about Syed. The spray pattern at the room doesn't suggest Nicholas was being especially targeted.
Quote from: airboy on December 03, 2015, 01:50:04 PM
Apparently the shooters were radicalized Muslims....
According to
Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/12/03/us-california-shooting-muslims-idUSKBN0TM2OI20151203#jYFzyzIDp0DIkqdM.97): "Muslim Americans fear demonization of Islam after mass shooting"
My wifes cousin is in a police department in San Bernadino county. He was at court yesterday morning when the call went out. He's part of the swat team, and was one of the first on site. Saw a picture of him on the news tonight.
We've got family down there, too. Looks like they were out of town at the time.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pamperedpetz.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2FPuppy1.jpg&hash=a2b77956d5a1fa7826e1542bc94983cdc158b06a)
(https://d.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1396762972ra/9184449.gif)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.howitworksdaily.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2Fdouble-rainbow-wide-wallpaper-339755.jpg&hash=94c5746b188e1c8f6d34242a56d953f9e2c883ea)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.grindtv.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2FPipeline.jpg&hash=0fb31c5ddd1e68b9515c90e24b7dd5b8fcf2450b)
There is a consolidated thread for the sole discussion of gun control here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4115.0
Not sure if the mods' position has changed, but it used to be that all discussion of gun control was directed there.
Quote from: Toonces on December 03, 2015, 08:01:40 PM
Here is the article I mentioned:
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/19/8807851/mass-shootings-gun-control-charleston
This isn't the actual article to which I was referring, but I think it's pretty good and speaks to my previous point regardless.
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454161/gun-violence-solution
The Vox is not news. It's hyper-liberal propaganda and opinion. Not that it cannot or should not read it, but it is hardly objective or honest in it's discussions particularly when they involve liberal hot button issues.
Quote from: LongBlade on December 03, 2015, 09:55:22 PM
There is a consolidated thread for the sole discussion of gun control here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4115.0
Not sure if the mods' position has changed, but it used to be that all discussion of gun control was directed there.
Yep.. it should probably be sent there. Otherwise this thread will go straight off the heated rails.
C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)
Gun control discussions go in the gun control thread
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4115.0
Any further comments about gun control in this thread will be deleted.
discuss news about the shooting here, but save the editorializing about gun control (pro OR con) for the other thread. Say whatever you want over there, but say it over there
thank you
C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)
Heh.
Well the appropriate thing to do would be to delete all my posts and color your mod posts in pink or red.
That's what they do on SimHQ anyway... :P
I could've posted it all in big red bold letters and told you that you weren't allowed to criticize the mods, either
Trying to read CNN's coverage makes me want to vomit. Not so much their reporting as it is the Farook family attorney:
QuoteThe Farook family attorneys said that the possession of thousands of rounds of ammunition does not make someone a terrorist.
Not in and of itself, but the senseless and stupid murder of so many people and injuring of many more and the pipe bombs and the "hundreds of tools" to make more explosives and the smashed cell phones and removed hard drive and tactical gear and shootout with police and IS leanings are probably all relatively good indicators of being terrorists.
What a bunch of dickbags.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
If owning that much ammo was sufficient to categorize someone as a terrorist, JH would be in trouble.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 04, 2015, 08:08:01 AM
I could've posted it all in big red bold letters and told you that you weren't allowed to criticize the mods, either
That's right! We have wives for that! 8)
Quote from: airboy on December 03, 2015, 01:50:04 PM
Apparently the shooters were radicalized Muslims. The male was a US citizen and his wife had a green card.
In a disappointing spasm of hate and spite, a number of liberal commentators are mocking those who asked for prayers for the victims claiming that nothing less than 100% support for more federal gun control was insincere and useless. The attacks came in California which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.
Toonces comments on gun control were evoked by my post above. The purpose of my post was expressing my disgust that a group of people were mocking prayer for the victims unless they ascribed to a particular political policy.
I apologize for not writing more precisely and bringing up a sidebar to the situation I was irritated about.
I don't think there is anything to apologize about airboy. I get the forum rules no issues. However, three thing happened immediately following the killing. 1. Leftist pundits and democrat politicans blamed the attack on gun owning conservatives. 2. Condemned those who expressed prayer on social media, and 3. Immediately demanded gun control. That is simply a fact. Politics and ideology matter more to some than facts or empathy to the killed and their families. There is also the insane inability of some leaders to accept that people do shitty things in the name of all types of ideology to include Islam. Reality seemingly is something to now avoid being addressed in this nation.
http://wncn.com/2015/12/04/sources-mother-in-san-bernardino-massacre-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-leader/
Interesting.
Concur that no apology is needed, Airboy. I read what I wanted to read, not what you wrote.
FWIW, I agree that it is dispicable to criticize people who choose to pray for the families of those that were killed if they don't agree with a certain political ideology.
I like hanging out here on Grogheads, so I'm reluctant to post too much on current events because a) I tend to run counter to most folks' views here and b) I prefer to be able to discuss things like games and boobs without there being animosity between me and members with whom I disagree, sometimes vehemently.
I didn't read the specific information most of you are referring to with respect to criticism of prayer on social media, etc.
Having said that, I'll take the bad guy role for the sake of discussion. Whenever there is a tragedy like this, we all pray for the deceased and their families. If you feel the confers some benefit to them, or to yourself, it certainly makes no difference to me one way or the other. There is a serious contradiction, though, that while you are praying FOR the deceased, the killers were also praying that they'd kill them, that their aim would be true and they could kill as many as possible for their religious beliefs. I'm making some assumptions, but you understand the gist of my argument.
Two groups of faithful people are praying for completely opposite effects.
For those of us that don't share the spiritual beliefs of either side, we shake our heads and say to ourselves, you know praying doesn't seem to be helping anybody here in a practical sense. Perhaps, instead of investing all that energy on social media discussing praying, which happens every time a tragedy occurs like this, perhaps we can invest that energy into creating a real dialogue to find solutions to the myriad issues that contribute to these sensless killings.
A sensible dialogue is impossible if you factor out a major contributors to a specific type of violence and think that criminal acts will not be committed if a law is passed. If that were the case, murder is illegal in every state and nation and yet...who is really punish by a law? Criminals or law abiding citizens?
We can still be friends and talk games and mammery glands. 🕹🙋
^ I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely, Toonces.
I don't have a problem with anyone sharing thoughts and prayers, but when it comes from a politician - any politician - for me, being as jaded and cynical as I am, it comes across as pandering, or at the very least, disingenuous.
That said, I'd like to believe that our leadership/candidates aren't that heartless, but I'm sure there's levels of heartlessness among them. Some truly believe what they're saying, others couldn't care less, but they say it regardless because they know they have to say something. If that makes any sense.
+2 to the sweater muffins.
:)
I misunderstood your cryptic post up there, Bison, so I'll just leave it with a smiley face for now.
Landlord and "news" media break into sealed apartment of the two terrorists...way to contaminate a crime scene...frackin idiots. :knuppel2:
http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#Rm4NXJx4LgqR
Quote from: steve58 on December 04, 2015, 01:05:59 PM
Landlord and "news" media break into sealed apartment of the two terrorists...frackin idiots. :knuppel2:
http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#Rm4NXJx4LgqR
The first comment is hilarious.
QuoteAfter ordering the FBI to stand down and allow entry into the apartment, now obama can deliver his next speech: "Since the evidence has been tampered with, there can be no credible allegations that this had anything to do with terrorism."
Time to arrest the landlord for tampering with a crime scene.
You can try to arrest the journalists, but they're going to claim First Amendment rights, and probably win, since they didn't let themselves in.
The landlord, tho, clearly has a problem on his hands.
Good grief, I kept hoping that was an Onion story. What idiocy!!!
You'd think given the nature of the crime the site who have a physical security presence still.
Quote from: Bison on December 04, 2015, 01:27:39 PM
You'd think given the nature of the crime the site who have a physical security presence still.
No kidding!!! Where was the FBI? Homeland Security? Local cops? Hell, not even a Wal-Mart greeter left guarding the door???
Watching the press conference now.
This is now an FBI investigation. Investigating this as an act of terrorism, per the head of FBI in LA.
Evidence that they tried to destroy their digital footprint.
Sounds like the apartment had been turned back over to the land lord. Therefore no crime in letting the press in, from a secure crime scene.
Quote
One MSNBC reporter was seen examining items left on the suspects' desk, at one point picking up a child-rearing book. CNN journalists described seeing driver's licenses, social security cards and shredded documents inside the residence. A group of photographers zeroed in on a pile of papers that were laid out on a bed.
^...sounds like some "stuff" got left behind. Seriously, why would these items have not been picked up and
secured by the FBI?? I thought the tech was in place to restore shredded docs? :idiot2:
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 04, 2015, 11:37:52 AM
http://wncn.com/2015/12/04/sources-mother-in-san-bernardino-massacre-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-leader/
Posted on Facebook.
Good thing the NSA is watching everyone, there's no way they could miss that! :-\
smh - when everything is a priority, nothing is.
...nvm...thought i was editing previous post :-[
Quote from: steve58 on December 04, 2015, 03:58:22 PM
...nvm...thought i was editing previous post :-[
Ha! I've done that, too. And the other way around - it's especially bad when you're the admin and you think you're quoting someone when you're really editing their post....
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on December 04, 2015, 12:27:45 PM
I don't have a problem with anyone sharing thoughts and prayers, but when it comes from a politician - any politician - for me, being as jaded and cynical as I am, it comes across as pandering, or at the very least, disingenuous.
That said, I'd like to believe that our leadership/candidates aren't that heartless, but I'm sure there's levels of heartlessness among them. Some truly believe what they're saying, others couldn't care less, but they say it regardless because they know they have to say something. If that makes any sense.
Everyone here thinks that most politicians are weasels.
^"weasels".....you are being too kind...
Quote from: steve58 on December 04, 2015, 07:50:52 PM
^"weasels".....you are being too kind...
True. Taxonomically correct weasels may actually be owed an apology here.
QuoteRafia Farook, the mother of San Bernardino terrorist Syed Rizwan Farook, is an active member of the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), a Muslim organization that promotes the establishment of a caliphate and has ties to a radical Pakistani political group called Jamaat-e-Islami.
Farook's affiliation with ICNA was revealed on Friday when MSNBC and other new outlets scoured the Farooks' apartment in Redlands, Cal. An MSNBC reporter found a certificate of appreciation presented to Safia Farook last summer by ICNA's sisters' wing.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/05/shooters-mother-active-in-us-branch-of-pro-caliphate-islamic-group/
QuoteAt least 72 employees at the Department of Homeland Security are listed on the U.S. terrorist watch list, according to a Democratic lawmaker.
Rep. Stephen Lynch (D., Mass.) disclosed that a congressional investigation recently found that at least 72 people working at DHS also "were on the terrorist watch list."
"Back in August, we did an investigation—the inspector general did—of the Department of Homeland Security, and they had 72 individuals that were on the terrorist watch list that were actually working at the Department of Homeland Security," Lynch told Boston Public Radio.
"The [former DHS] director had to resign because of that," he said.
DHS continues to fail inspections aimed at determining the efficiency of its internal safety mechanisms, as well as its efforts to protect the nation.
source: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/72-dhs-employees-on-terrorist-watch-list/
QuoteSan Bernardino gunman Syed Farook shared ISIS' ideology, wanted to see the establishment of an Islamic caliphate and was fixated with Israel, Farook's father told an Italian newspaper during an interview in which he also offered his own unusual ideas about Israel.
"My son said that he shared [ISIS leader Abu Bakr] Al Baghdadi's ideology and supported the creation of the Islamic State," said Farook's dad, also named Syed Farook, who lives in Corona, Calif., with another son who is a Navy veteran. "He was also obsessed with Israel."
"I told him he had to stay calm and be patient because in two years Israel will not exist anymore," the elder Farook told La Stampa in an article published Sunday. The foreign language daily's report was translated in part by The Times of Israel.
"Geopolitics is changing: Russia, China and America don't want Jews there anymore. They are going to bring the Jews back to Ukraine. What is the point of fighting? We have already done it and we lost. Israel is not to be fought with weapons, but with politics. But he did not listen to me, he was obsessed," the father said in the interview, according to The Times of Israel.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/06/san-bernardino-gunman-obsessed-with-israel-isis-dad-says/?intcmp=hpbt1
This is starting to remind me an awful lot of the Tsarnaev Brothers, with flaky parents and all.
Wow. I've heard some odd propaganda results before, but Farook Sr's... that... wow... That's alternate-Earth levels of dissonance.
How many of these fine, open minded, peace loving, live and let live folks does President O and Hilary want to bring here.
SMH
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 06, 2015, 07:47:29 PM
Wow. I've heard some odd propaganda results before, but Farook Sr's... that... wow... That's alternate-Earth levels of dissonance.
I don't think it's that far off the norm for swaths of the Arab-ish population.
you have to separate the so called and selfdeclared traditional muslims / islamists / secret IS-sympathizers from the society and throw them out
Move 'em on
(Head em' up!)
Head em' up
(Move 'em on!)
Move 'em on
(Head em' up!)
Rawhide!
Cut 'em out
(Ride 'em in!)
Ride 'em in
(Cut em' out!)
Cut 'em out
Ride 'em in,
Rawhide!
Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disaprovin'
Keep them doggies movin',
Rawhide
Don't try to understand 'em
Just rope, throw, and brand 'em
Soon we'll be livin' high and wide ...Again!
^Sure. Easy peasy.
Quote from: LongBlade on December 06, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 06, 2015, 07:47:29 PM
Wow. I've heard some odd propaganda results before, but Farook Sr's... that... wow... That's alternate-Earth levels of dissonance.
I don't think it's that far off the norm for swaths of the Arab-ish population.
Nope. It's not.
FoxNews is reporting (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/09/was-local-high-school-target-san-bernardino-terrorists/?intcmp=hpbt1) that Farook had pics of a local high school on his phone...this will be sending chills down the spines of every American, especially those with children in school. :(
F@cking cowards...targeting a school is just total depths of depravity type behavior. Disturbing and nauseating to say the least. Thank God it didn't happen that way.
They're animals ... period.
This is a pic of these two scumbags entering the US in July of 2014. Farook returned from Saudi with his oinker here and this was the pic that immigration took of them.
The blank looks are rather chilling. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-stickman.com%2Fgraphics%2Fsmilies%2Fshudder.gif&hash=936a464dfc112ad85d6e3b6c32353a40f4cf69dc)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.go.com%2Fimages%2FInternational%2Fht_malik_farook_airport_BUGGED_BG_lf_151206_4x3_992.jpg&hash=3889229af9b51215537acd05b6a4793586f58073)
I keep seeing that picture and keep wanting to vomit. Something about it makes me so pissed off.
Bloody savages! >:( What have the innocent got to do with their "jihad"?
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on December 09, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
This is a pic of these two scumbags entering the US in July of 2014. Farook returned from Saudi with his oinker here and this was the pic that immigration took of them.
when i saw this picture first time in a German tabloid, i asked myself:
How did those two -US-citizen or not- ever get allowed on a plane with destination to USA?
Who these days show-off in that gear outside of a private property or in a according public 'religious building' dedicated to that
faith where those gear is mandatory, has to be on a non-flight list.
thought experiments:
when i would dress up -equal medieval- as a "Teutonic Knight" (with sword/shield in a locked transport-box checked-in at the special-counter of the airline the eve before, of course!) would they let me on a plane?
would they have let veteran Travis Bickle on a plane ?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2ugnfwx.jpg&hash=ce4af2a44bc1509d6b613e08e2683092717482ac)
Americas elderly Medal of Honor Recipients get their ass fumbled by the TSA, but those lovebirds were allowed on a plane *facepalm*
comic relief
...on a lighter side that picture
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on December 09, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.go.com%2Fimages%2FInternational%2Fht_malik_farook_airport_BUGGED_BG_lf_151206_4x3_992.jpg&hash=3889229af9b51215537acd05b6a4793586f58073)
...reminds me of this one:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F10qgt2w.jpg&hash=5d7d5f7393c41b9b4bbe028038e97bdd01c01168)
These are the stories I expect to see more of.
QuoteA Muslim leader in Alabama said Wednesday he had notified the FBI after mosque members received suspicious contacts on social media, including one that mentioned war.
Ashfaq Taufique, president of the Birmingham Islamic Society, said several members of the mosque received friend requests from an unknown person about 1½ weeks ago. One member also got a message, apparently from the same person, stating: "We are at war and we must stick together," according to Taufique.
Taufique said the meaning of the message was unclear. But the society member informed Taufique, who said he went to the FBI since the message could be tied to extremism amid a time of extremist violence.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/10/head-alabama-mosque-contacts-fbi-over-suspicious-messages/
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2015, 03:03:47 PM
F@cking cowards...targeting a school is just total depths of depravity type behavior. Disturbing and nauseating to say the least. Thank God it didn't happen that way.
This is my greatest fear, Gus, and considering what these bastards have been doing in Israel, sooner or later it's going to happen. Or they will board a school bus wearing an explosive vest. But the politicians who want to throw open our borders while disarming us at the same time, their kids don't ride those busses or go to those schools. They don't live in our neighborhoods. It's more bleeding heart liberal bullshit, telling us what's good for us, how we need to be and think but hey, don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. It will happen, and when it does, fingers will point in all the wrong directions.
Sounding a little bit like a certain candidate there Steelie. :)
I'm like Popeye, I yam what I yam......
This is why Trump gets traction, he's the crazy uncle without a filter. I don't know that his solution is the correct one, but I know damn well what we are doing now is the wrong one. And it's going to result in more innocent lives lost.
If politicians would just stop being asswipes for a moment maybe, MAYBE we could combat this effectively.
Then again we have a perfect storm of aggressive fanatical enemies, pourous borders and PC bs running amok. How could this possibly end well? Or end at all? This is the forever war, for real.
I'm not so sure he's the crazy uncle, or he sounds like it because we've been undated for so long it the "proper and approved" language to use when speaking.
Quote from: Gusington on December 10, 2015, 09:35:16 AM
If politicians would just stop being asswipes for a moment maybe,
Ah Gus, the idealism of youth shines in you, brother.... 8)
Yeah, I think we're in for a long, rough haul. As is Europe.
Quote from: Bison on December 10, 2015, 09:38:11 AM
I'm not so sure he's the crazy uncle, or he sounds like it because we've been undated for so long it the "proper and approved" language to use when speaking.
I wasn't entirely happy with the wording I chose either. I don't think Trump's crazy. No filter to be sure, but not crazy. I don't see myself ending up in the Trump camp, but I'm certainly reconsidering voting options if it's him versus Hillary.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/07/obamas-terror-speech-perfectly-highlights-reasons-for-trumps-rise/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/07/obamas-terror-speech-perfectly-highlights-reasons-for-trumps-rise/)
Yeah that's an interesting article, Steelie.
I think it just comes down to disfranchisement of voters with politicians and the political process. The polling data is very interesting in several areas when you place it in context with political policies being enacted. Public opinion is often the opposite of the policy position. Terrorism. Immigration. Federal Deficits. And then there is the other side of the data. The "as long as it effects them and not me" mentality in particular in regard to entitlement spending.
The disparity between public opinion and government action usually being 180 degrees opposite of each other, underlines exactly why we are not a democracy anymore.
Put it to a vote, and I'm certain an overwhelming number of Americans would support more restrictive immigration measures, as opposed to the administration wanting to admit thousands of refugees. I'm getting sick of them not being representative.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on December 10, 2015, 10:16:24 AMI'm getting sick of them not being representative.
at one time interracial marriage was illegal, based in large part on public opinion
My brother and his first wife got married in '96, and had leave St Tammany Parish to find someone willing to perform the courthouse ceremony.
Apples and oranges brant.
Meanwhile, back on less RP&F topics:
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/1001/20151210/2526
Lots of interesting information here, but the most intriguing to me is that Farkook's brother (...yeah okay I'm going to let that accidental spelling stand...) is not only a US Navy veteran but earned no less than two anti-terrorism medals.
QuoteRaheel Farook, is a Navy veteran, serving from 2003 to 2007 and earning the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, among other awards.
Quote from: Bison on December 10, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Apples and oranges brant.
I'm merely bringing out the point that "a majority wants this" isn't always an acceptable reason to do something
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 10, 2015, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: Bison on December 10, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Apples and oranges brant.
I'm merely bringing out the point that "a majority wants this" isn't always an acceptable reason to do something
I understand, but context matters. Also there is also tyranny of the minority just as there can be tyranny of the majority.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 10, 2015, 11:04:17 AM
Meanwhile, back on less RP&F topics:
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/1001/20151210/2526
Lots of interesting information here, but the most intriguing to me is that Farkook's brother (...yeah okay I'm going to let that accidental spelling stand...) is not only a US Navy veteran but earned no less than two anti-terrorism medals.
QuoteRaheel Farook, is a Navy veteran, serving from 2003 to 2007 and earning the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, among other awards.
Naturally I'm having a problem finding the article...
The other day I ran across an article written by another vet who explained that the brother was not "decorated" in the sense that he had some kind of award for valor. The vet went on to say that he is proud of his own service medals, but that at least one was an award simply for showing up, albeit during wartime. They are service medals, indicating that the brother served aboard a navy ship during wartime.
I'll keep looking for the article. His point wasn't to denigrate service medals, but rather to point out that they aren't what we would commonly think of as "awards" in the sense of the Silver Star.
Found it. More info at the link:
QuoteReports indicate Navy records show Farook was awarded the National Defense Service Medal, Good Conduct Medal, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon.
His highest award — the National Defense Service Medal — is awarded when you sign on the dotted line, enlisting in a time of war. Certainly nothing to shrug about, but to further flesh out how military culture views this award, I'll say my drill instructors referred to it as a "fire watch" ribbon ... meaning I and anyone else who signed with me got it for simply showing up.
I guess we're all decorated then.
Service is tough, there's no two ways about it. Farook did a "combat" deployment with the Navy aboard the USS Enterprise. Certainly, life aboard a ship isn't as comfortable as life in your mom's basement.
Nevertheless, this line up of "awards and decorations," as one military official put it to Buzzfeed, really only amounts to the military version of participation trophies. I don't say that to diminish them — I'm most intensely proud of my Iraqi Campaign Medal (not at all an endorsement of the invasion) — I use the phrase "participation trophies" because we tend to reserve the term "decorated" amongst ourselves to refer to awards earned for valor in combat.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/08/farook-brother-not-a-decorated-navy-veteran/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 10, 2015, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: Bison on December 10, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Apples and oranges brant.
I'm merely bringing out the point that "a majority wants this" isn't always an acceptable reason to do something
Actually, it is a very valid reason. The worst thing you can do is tell someone their opinion is totally invalid and doesn't count. The best thing you could do is take step back, and run with what you can where you can, as your brother did. Given time, a lot of this opinions will change. Especially when there are alternatives that those that don't like them can pursue. There are alternatives to bringing all of the refugees to the US and Europe, but for some reason the politicians don't want to admit that there are because it's easier to tell everyone how evil and hateful they are for political points than it is to do the hard work of working with others of different opinions.
My point is that one is a rights issue regarding citizens and existing law and rights and the other is a policy issue involving non-citizens. There is a major distinction.
When our apologizer-in-chief talks about shipping "innocent" Syrian women and children refugees to your/my neighborhood, I wonder if this little darling is who he's thinking about???
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2015/12/10/watch-little-palestinian-girl-demonstrates-how-to-stab-israelis/ (http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2015/12/10/watch-little-palestinian-girl-demonstrates-how-to-stab-israelis/)
Not sure why the link wasn't working for you, LB. I tried it again a minute ago and it clicked through fine. It wasn't behind a paywall (so far as I know); I have to sign in to get my mail, but not for this. It ought to have been like going to YahooNews...? ???
Anyway. Yes I figured they were expedition medals, for serving in an operation or whatever. I would have thought they qualified a bit more than the award given for volunteering to join in a time of war, since they would reflect something done after signing up (even if the something was serving in a region or situation).
So in their quest to unlock the terrorist's iPhone the FBI is now trying to bypass Apple and has enlisted the help of a foreign corporation. If they succeed, I suspect its going to be a real eye opener for Apple...and maybe a black eye as well.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-cellebrite-idUSKCN0WP17J