I thought we had a thread on this one, but can't find it. Still, can't wait for this one!
Okay. That won me over.
GOG on psychotropics. Could be good.
for prep, start here... read forward
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:)
The Joker looks like the offspring of two classic Mad Max characters.
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Ironically, had they just gone with CCH Pounder as the live-action version of Waller (she's the most famous voice actress for the character), she would have looked the part nowadays. ;)
So yeah, it's okay. I'll probably like it a lot. A bit worried about how much plot the movie seems to be juggling; a Suicide Squad movie should be about the mission and how crazy it is to be using supervillains for the mission. But for a first movie, maybe it makes sense that the mission should be a distant second to establishing the characters. I suspect the twist is that the Enchantress (not to be confused with Marvel's Asgardian character), turns out to be the main villain.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 20, 2016, 03:39:14 PM
Ironically, had they just gone with CCH Pounder as the live-action version of Waller (she's the most famous voice actress for the character), she would have looked the part nowadays. ;)
20 years ago, when Wizard magazine cast the Suicide Squad movie based on the '88 series, CCH Pounder was their pick for Waller.
I'm looking forward to this a lot more than that Batman vs. superman train wreck, though I am curious who they're being sent against...
Quote from: Arctic Blast on January 21, 2016, 02:44:31 AM
I'm looking forward to this a lot more than that Batman vs. superman train wreck, though I am curious who they're being sent against...
Jared Leto as The Joker
This looks totally awesome. And they could do worse things than keeping that music score in!
Good money says they're being sent against the Enchantress' brother.
(...and Jaredoker factors in, though not as the actual Big Bad, but we all know he's more important.)
It'll be interesting to see if/how they work in Qurac. It's going to come across to those not in the know as pandering to current events, never mind it's been around since the mid-80s
I always thought Jared Leto looked creepy and annoying. Annoying.. probably because he also reminded me of that d-knob from the old Full House tv show (which I loathed).
Maybe this is the role he was born for?
See! They both look a bit douchey! (The Stamos Effect) ~>
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Harley Quinn origins
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/a-soap-star-a-professor-and-a-bombshell-the-224824853.html
Leto did a pretty solid job in Lords or War.
I saw a very distinct lack of the Enchantress in that trailer, which suggests again that she's actually the main villain (or in league with him).
Will be taking the kids to see Suicide Squad next weekend. Rewatched Batman v Superman with them the other night. It's a decent enough movie if you can deal with Snyder's sepia toned gloom. Hard to believe Batfleck is a good Batman and probably the best Bruce Wayne out of any of the actors to portray the character in a live action movie. Looking forward to seeing him in Suicide Squad even if only briefly.
I just watched B v. S last night for the first time. The acting was ok, and I agree that Aflack (quack!) was pretty good. Cavil was ok. I thought Gal Gidot was nicely slinky but a bit wooden. So was I while watching her but that's a different matter... Eisenberg was a bit over-the-top. He doesn't have the dark presence to pull off the malevolent psycho banter in the way that Ledger and Leto (per what I could see from the SS trailer) do for the Joker.
The premonition scenes were a bit confusing- where were they coming from? Were they just dreamed or is there some external force acting on Batman/Bruce Wayne?
Obvious setup at the KK grave site.
Eisenberg's portayal of Luthor was ill fitting for the character. I thought Eisenberg did a decent job, but he was playing the wrong part.
The premonition stuff mostly confused the hell out of me and I didn't give it much thought beyond that. And then they had to throw in the time traveling Flash bit to further muddle things.
Quote from: mirth on July 31, 2016, 09:13:11 AM
And then they had to throw in the time traveling Flash bit to further muddle things.
I forgot about that. ???
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 31, 2016, 09:01:50 AM
Eisenberg was a bit over-the-top. He doesn't have the dark presence to pull off the malevolent psycho banter in the way that Ledger and Leto (per what I could see from the SS trailer) do for the Joker.
After seeing Vincent D'Onofrio playing Kingpin in the Daredevil series, I can't think of anyone who could possibly pull off the bald mastermind supervillain better. Surprised nobody had used him in previous sociopathic supervillain roles. Dude's amazing.
Then we see Eisenberg playing Luther? I was shaking my head in disbelief. WTF?
Quote from: Nefaro on July 31, 2016, 08:02:46 PM
After seeing Vincent D'Onofrio playing Kingpin in the Daredevil series, I can't think of anyone who could possibly pull off the bald mastermind supervillain better.
Clancy Brown. Who actually did play an amazing Luthor for about 15 years, off and on (in the DCAU Superman/Justice League series, and some other DC properties.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 01, 2016, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 31, 2016, 08:02:46 PM
After seeing Vincent D'Onofrio playing Kingpin in the Daredevil series, I can't think of anyone who could possibly pull off the bald mastermind supervillain better.
Clancy Brown. Who actually did play an amazing Luthor for about 15 years, off and on (in the DCAU Superman/Justice League series, and some other DC properties.)
I didn't think Clancy Brown was actually bald.
But I won't disagree. Clancy Brown is amazing. Dude never gets enough praise for acting a creep. >:D I still think of going back & watching some of the old HBO
Carnivale series just to see him doing his thing.
I admit to knowing next to nothing about Suicide Squad. I thought the Joker was part of the team, and thought that would have been quite awesome. But obviously not.
Still...this is highly intriguing. I hope it's decent.
In one of the earliest missions (in the comic), The Penguin actually plans the infiltration into the target site for them, and Batman shows up at Belle Reve, and is *not* happy that they're going to cut him loose afterwards.
The idea of the villains as "good guys" was intriguing, but it also showed the villains as actually being dangerous and competent.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 01, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
and Barman shows up
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I am not using the swype keyboard on the f'n tablet ever again
I'm more surprised there's not a 'barman' meme, to be honest. ;)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 02, 2016, 06:33:26 AM
I'm more surprised there's not a 'barman' meme, to be honest. ;)
Barman: able to serve multiple rounds of drinks while still giving the weepy floozy at the bar the impression he's actually listening to her sob story.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 02, 2016, 06:42:12 AM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 02, 2016, 06:33:26 AM
I'm more surprised there's not a 'barman' meme, to be honest. ;)
Barman: able to serve multiple rounds of drinks while still giving the weepy floozy at the bar the impression he's actually listening to her sob story.
Does his secret identity rhyme with "Mirth"???
Yes, and he battles his arch enemy, Seahag, whose secret identity rhymes with Hillary.
Sounds like a helluva movie.
Quote from: bbmike on August 02, 2016, 01:14:59 PM
Yes, and he battles his arch enemy, Seahag, whose secret identity rhymes with Hillary.
Take that shit back! I am not his arch enemy!
Does Brant rhyme with Hillary?
"Guillory" does
Well there ya go, Seahag.
Barman. Drinkin' all he can.
Seahag gonna lag
when he punches her in the baby bag.
(Reminded me of the "Nightman" tune from Always Sunny In Philadelphia :2funny: )
Re bald Clancy: he was a recurring guest star on some drama Mom and Dad used to watch (I forget which one) where the costume designers or whoever decided to shave him bald. In his snazzy business suits, he looked as well as sounded like Luthor. (I assume they shaved him because his natural hair is kind of mangy and he would have looked like a hobo in the business suit! :)) )
Meanwhile, early reviews for Suicide Squad are all over the map. :-\ :( >:(
At some point recently the Rotten Tomato score was ranging from low to high 30s! :o
I heard that they'd been doing some substantial re-editing after Deadpool became a hit, but the script didn't really lend itself toward Deadpool-style sarcasm/hijinks. So the re-edits ended up being a little too choppy based on what had actually been filmed and was available to use. Not sure where I read that, but I saw it a couple of times.
Makes sense; could also have been reaction (much like the Justice League promo) to the dour, un-fun tone of the new DC Cinematic Universe so far. I guarantee the original film was shot to be as dark thematically and in practice as possible -- why wouldn't they do that when that was standard operating procedure during production before BvS took hard criticism? IT'S A FILM ABOUT HORRIBLE KILLER INSANE EVILDOERS! Never mind that the comic source, and even the animated Suicide Squad movie (part of the Arkhamverse continuity), not to mention various TV animated properties (like Task Force X in the DCAU Justice League), had no problem mixing the dark concept with wry fun. It isn't like the DCCU showrunners had taken similar hard criticism to heart from Man of Steel when producing BvS after all.
Now only if DC had released Batman v Superman in Lego format, it would have easily given it +30% on Rotten Tomatoes.
I wonder what Lego Boobies look like? Do you reckon they attach or are they painted on?
Painted, no doubt. But if you Google it...the Internet will not disappoint.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 05, 2016, 07:10:48 AMBut if you Google it...the Internet will not disappoint.
yep
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-8-worst-x-men-ever_p2/
Quotebut unfortunately this is now Schrodinger's Porn: The act of publicly observing that there are none guarantees someone will create some.
Those look more like Star Wars Blasters than boobies. But OK, snap-on.
I saw Suicide Squad tonight and would rate it as fair. It looked good, the performances seemed fine, but it was missing something. It just didn't take off as I would have hoped. 40Jr gave it 10 out of 10; he's 12. I'd say it was on par with the Ghosterbusters reboot.
Oddly, I found the climactic battle in Suicide Squad more similar to the climactic battle in the original Ghostbusters than the climactic battle in the reboot Ghostbusters!
Just back from seeing with the kids. They loved it. I'd give it a 'B'. It's on par with some of the lesser Marvel movies (both Thors, Cap 1). Here are my initial thoughts:
Plot: There is one. It's pretty much irrelevant. Don't give it any thought, the movie surely doesn't.
Margot Robbie is great. She owns the Harley Quinn role the way Heath Ledger owned the Joker or Mark Ruffalo has done with Banner/Hulk. It's hard to imagine anyone else in the role.
Jared Leto was underwhelming as the Joker. Not terrible and he tries to give it a fresh take, but it's hard to not compare him to past great Jokers (Ledger, Hamill) and find Leto's performance lacking.
Will Smith is pretty much Will Smith. If you like him in everything else you've ever seen him in, you'll be happy with him here.
Viola Davis is fantastic. She absolutely owns this movie. Take her out of it and the entertainment value drops by half. She makes Sam Jackson's Nick Fury look like a pussy. I hope she has a significant role in future DC movies.
The rest of the cast is kinda just there. Diablo is more interesting than most and this is the first movie with Jai Courtney that didn't make me hate Jai Courtney (mainly because he is unrecognizable as Jai Courtney).
Not a great movie, but a solid entry. They haven't quite figured out the print money formula of Marvel, but DC is definitely trying to universe build and succeeding for the most part.
Oh and at least 30 minutes could have been cut out of Suicide Squad without losing anything.
This article pretty much nails the situation for DC/Warner.
http://variety.com/2016/film/box-office/suicide-squad-box-office-1201832235/
Great review, Mirth. Sounds like a movie I might take in if I find time, but more likely I'll catch it on Amazon down the road.
Quote from: Steelgrave on August 07, 2016, 03:10:22 PM
Great review, Mirth. Sounds like a movie I might take in if I find time, but more likely I'll catch it on Amazon down the road.
You can definitely wait for it, Steelie. I mainly went for the kids. These comic book movies are like crack for their little brains ;D
Good review mirth, but I didn't buy Viola Davis' performance at all. I found it one dimensional. And Enchantress almost made me chuckle at one point. She would fit well into the Ghostbusters reboot.
Quote from: Centurion40 on August 07, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
Good review mirth, but I didn't buy Viola Davis' performance at all. I found it one dimensional.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I thought she delivered what the part required - serious badassery.
TBH, I thought the only character with any nuance was Diablo. The rest were pretty standard tropes.
I totally agree about Enchantress. The bad guys were an after thought. Completely without threat. Mr Stay Puft would have been more menacing.
Ghostbusters was not very successful at the box office.
See: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?view2=worldwide&yr=2016
Suicide Squad has already out-earned it.
Ghostbusters bombs and it's because of misogyny. Suicide Squad succeeds and it's because of marketing over good taste ::)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/movies/making-suicide-squad-a-smash-despite-withering-reviews.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/movies/making-suicide-squad-a-smash-despite-withering-reviews.html)
Suicide Squad is not a very good movie, but it is an enjoyable summer diversion that is easier to take than the last two overblown, self-serious, sepia-toned pieces of Zack Snyder nonsense that DC tried to cram down our throats. And it is more enjoyable than a made by committee Ghostbusters reboot that the PC police have insisted is good because it has female leads.
I was underwhelmed with SS. But that's in large part b/c of my insane love of the old Ostrander comics (I did like his name on the Federal Bldg)
I'll post more detailed thoughts later, but I thought there was a lot more that could've been done. My opinion is not nearly as glowing at B_C's was over on FB
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 07, 2016, 09:42:56 PM
I thought there was a lot more that could've been done
I can't argue with that, but I didn't think it was anywhere near as bad as many of the reviews made it out to be. And I liked it more than Man of Steel or Batman v Superman (not a high standard, I realize).
https://heatst.com/entertainment/suicide-squad-was-way-better-than-ghostbusters-but-with-much-worse-reviews/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 07, 2016, 09:42:56 PM
I'll post more detailed thoughts later, but I thought there was a lot more that could've been done. My opinion is not nearly as glowing at B_C's was over on FB
I don't know what crack rocks y'all were smoking before seeing this movie, but I thought it was fantastic. I'm with Angry Joe on this one; I don't get the hate for it, but if you didn't like it, that's your prerogative of course. :D
And now we wait for the crappy video game and/or the decent-to-amazing Rocksteady Arkhamverse version. (Which they kind-of already did for an animated Arkhamverse movie, but still.)
(Unfortunately, I went with the nieces to The Secret Life of Pets which was, eh, disposable but worth a few laughs here and there. Would have liked it better if I liked dogs at all.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 08, 2016, 07:12:28 AM
.... Would have liked it better if I liked dogs at all.)
Git the pitchforks lads, we gotta run this here guy outta town. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrogheads.com%2Fforums%2FSmileys%2F%2FBrantz%2520Smilies%2Fangry.gif&hash=7f498b4b763bccde70fa0f9c67fae72383669086)
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In all seriousness, I really don't get the hate for this movie. I understand what y'all are saying, and what the haters are saying, but it wasn't disjointed to me at all. I keep wondering if I saw the same movie all of you did. :)
Angry Joe & Crew seemed to really like it. Was that mentioned upthread? Bears repeating even if so.
I had a few different problems with the movie, any one of which wouldn't have been a big deal but collectively added up to an underwhelming experience for me
1) I understand why they needed the front-loaded exposition of who the bad guys were and how they came to be. But none of the Marvel movies had comparable obvious introductions for any of their characters in either the main Marvel universe, or the X-Men universe and we still figured out who everyone was just fine
2) sacrificing Slipknot was supposed to raise the stakes on the possibility of people dying on the mission but it felt overly hokey given that you knew there was no way they were killing off anyone else important. Moreover since Slipknot wasn't introduced in the initial exposition, you knew he was the one to get whacked as soon as he came on screen
3) part of the whole point of The Suicide Squad was to be able to showcase the villains as actual confident dangerous menaces to society that needed the heroes to defeat them on a regular basis. If you go back to the original Comics, The Penguin appears very early on to plan a mission in and out of Russia and you get a sense of just how smart and dangerous he can actually be. You never get that with this crew.
You never see Deadshot set up an important long range shot, you just see him empty a lot of lead downrange.
You never see Harley's craziness completely unhinge the people she's facing down with to the point where they have no idea what to expect from her. Even the final scene is pretty contrived and not Harley truly baffling someone by just being batshit crazy.
You get some of Diablos conflicted emotions as he thinks about his family, but Killer Croc should really have been much more reticent to help people given that they have been shunning him their whole lives.
Boomerang is played merely for laughs, and not actually shown to be the ruthless trick shot artist he really is. Even the attempts at Boomerang's laughs are watered down compared to the source material where he is a total misogynistic asshole who never met a woman he couldn't insult.
Enchantress is tough to really rationalize given that she's supposed to be some sort of ancient otherworldly type creature, but her constant writhing as though the director had a remote controlled vibrator shoved up her ass was treated as some sort of defining characteristic rather than the real annoyance it was
4) once the shooting starts with her magic Army, the movie loses any semblance of being a superhero flick and simply becomes another Escape From New York meets The Walking Dead minion killing flick with no real danger to the main characters. We already know there is a 0% chance of anyone getting hurt by those faceless blobs and there's absolutely no reason we should care about those blobs because we never see who or what they were before Enchantress changed them. A major missed character opportunity here would have been for Flagg or Katana to not engage them because they felt sorry for what was underneath, whereas the villains would have no problem at all mowing them down.
5) why the hell is Flagg carrying around letters from Deadshot's daughter on a mission?
6) I'm sure they are working on a sequel given the commercial success from the first weekend, and I really hope that it focuses more on the infiltration of Argus by the Joker's guys
7) Flagg's minions are clearly cannon fodder, but that's kind of the whole point of The Suicide Squad so why have them both out there? If you really want to make the rest of the Argus field operatives more in line with the source material, put the Checkmate costumes on them and let them go be their independent operators, which is actually much more in line with how Diggle's ex wife operates in the Arrow TV show
Someone made a comment on a Facebook discussion about the movie that they expect comic fans will like it more than non-comic fans. I have the exact opposite opinion. I think comic fans are frustrated by the ham-handed attempts at character development that just devolve into tropes, the lack of any real tension between the team members (heck, there was more animosity among The Avengers in the first movie and they were all good guys theoretically fighting for the same side), and the entire second half of the movie that felt like Escape From New York happened to accidentally stumble into the final scene of the first Ghostbusters movie.
It's not that it wasn't fun, and I didn't feel like my money was wasted. It just didn't feel like they made a movie for fans of The Suicide Squad comic. They made a Zack Snyder movie (with someone else supposedly directing) that was trying to appeal to whatever dark and gritty superhero fans they think still exist after the last 2 DC attempts at big screen movies flopped as worthwhile stories
I could make a comment on each of your points (nothing bad or argumentative), but overall I can say I don't have a problem necessarily with anything you're saying. I'm just going to say that none of it really bothered me at all.
I can see how this would anger a comic fan, or someone a lot more familiar with the source material, but meh, it's a movie.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 11:03:33 AM
I could make a comment on each of your points (nothing bad or argumentative), but overall I can say I don't have a problem necessarily with anything you're saying. I'm just going to say that none of it really bothered me at all.
I can see how this would anger a comic fan, or someone a lot more familiar with the source material, but meh, it's a movie.
+1
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 11:03:33 AMbut meh, it's a movie.
if everyone had that attitude, then no one would've had a problem with the Ralph Bakshi LOTR movie.
Quote from: mirth on August 09, 2016, 11:17:32 AM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 11:03:33 AM
I could make a comment on each of your points (nothing bad or argumentative), but overall I can say I don't have a problem necessarily with anything you're saying. I'm just going to say that none of it really bothered me at all.
I can see how this would anger a comic fan, or someone a lot more familiar with the source material, but meh, it's a movie.
+1
So you're actually OK with the narration in Blade Runner? I mean, it's just a movie, right? ;) O0
Narration aside, Blade Runner is very, very different from 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?'. I enjoyed them both for what they were.
Suicide Squad the movie may be very different from the comics, but I still thought it was a decent movie and I enjoyed. Plenty of flaws to be sure, but still fun.
That was kind of my point - it's not a bad movie, but for those of us that are fans of the comic, there were a lot of missed opportunities.
Aside from the omission of The Wasp, I didn't feel like that at all about the Avengers movies, and that's the other book I grew up on
(My main books growing up were The Avengers / West Coast Avengers, Suicide Squad, Zot!, the Larry Hama-era GI Joe series, Elfquest, Grimjack, Mike Grell's Warlord, and regular forays into Marvel fandom with long runs of Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Sgt Fury & Howling Commandos, The Invaders, Dr Strange, The Defenders, and Nick Fury/SHIELD series, but not attempts at end-to-end collecting)
I look at it differently. Comics are constantly retconned, alt-universed, rebooted, whatever. There really is no continuity or canon in comics. So I don't necessarily need fidelity from movies based on them. If the movie is well done and enjoyable, that's good enough.
Mirth is right - I've learned to let go of my Iron Man obsessions after three IM movies and two Avengers movies.
The whole thing they did with Mandarin pissed me off to no end at the time, but now, it's grown on me and I see it as more of a creative license thing. I also pretty much limited myself to Iron Man, X-Men, and a few others. I didn't read much DC stuff, though I was into the Justice League reboot with the underlying humor it had back in 1990 or 1991 or so.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
Mirth is right
It was bound to happen eventually ;D
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
The whole thing they did with Mandarin pissed me off to no end at the time
That was dumb, but IM3 wasn't a great movie in general. Same with IM2. As I rewatch them over time, the less I like them. The first one was great, the sequels not so much.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2016, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 09, 2016, 11:03:33 AMbut meh, it's a movie.
if everyone had that attitude, then no one would've had a problem with the Ralph Bakshi LOTR movie.
And until Peter Jackson came along, that's all us diehards HAD (crappy as it was)! And that's my problem with ANY movie that Hollywood does that has source material. And in some cases, beloved source material. My beef will always be, if it became huge as a book, where does Hollywood get off thinking they know better how to tell the story by adding/subtracting/ignoring the original story?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I get that there are time restraints. I get that there are elements in the real world that need to be satisfied in order to get the movie made. But, if those things make the movie less than the source, then don't make the movie. I would much rather have no LotR than have Arwen be a character in any way, shape, or form until Aragorn marries her in Return of the King. I would much rather have no LotR than have Frodo send Sam home at Gollum's behest as they climb the stairs to Cirith Ungol. Or any number of atrocities Jackson foisted on us.
But I get the point that B_C and mirth are making, too. My kids LOVED LotR and they had no idea what the story was about. So additions, subtractions, outright crap that made me furious, went right over their heads and they couldn't WAIT for the next one to hit the theaters. And that's ok. Because they didn't do all those things for me, they did them for people who don't know the source material or don't care.
I just wish Hollywood, FOR ONCE, would take a book I love and make a completely faithful adaptation.
Quote from: MetalDog on August 09, 2016, 06:42:35 PMI just wish Hollywood, FOR ONCE, would take a book I love and make a completely faithful adaptation.
The Maltese Falcon
(seriously - watch it some time with a copy of the book in your lap and just follow along)
But if they shot LOTR scene-for-scene, you'd be wasting your time with the Tom Bombadil sideshow
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2016, 10:45:30 AM
1) I understand why they needed the front-loaded exposition of who the bad guys were and how they came to be. But none of the Marvel movies had comparable obvious introductions for any of their characters in either the main Marvel universe, or the X-Men universe and we still figured out who everyone was just fine
Do you think DC should have gone the Marvel route and had a few stand alone movies that would have helped define the hero's and villain's before they tried Dawn of Justice or SS. I remember someone posted on one of the Marvel threads, Marvels master movie plan. Does DC have anything like that or are they just making it up as they go.
I was never a serious comic book guy, so not an expert of these things.
1. DC totally winging it. Even if they say they have a plan, it's all subject to approval from the Department of Zach Snyder's Whims Of The Day
2. It would've been a better long-term play to at least introduce a few of the Suicide Squad characters to a more mainstream audience beyond having a white guy playing Deadshot on Arrow. We needed to see more about the bad guys (to really make them bad) from Boomerang, Killer Croc, Slipknot, and Enchantress. We also needed more on Rick Flagg, whose family has been a DC mainstay for 75 years.
3. Still wouldn't fix some of the internal issues in the movie
Great review brant. The writhing Enchantress comment was spot-on.
Still, I'll go and see it again.
I will caveat everything with this - given everything going on in my personal life right now, the dour outlook might need to be taken with a grain of salt
I stand by everything I said, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that I might only be looking for negatives at the moment
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2016, 08:03:46 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on August 09, 2016, 06:42:35 PMI just wish Hollywood, FOR ONCE, would take a book I love and make a completely faithful adaptation.
The Maltese Falcon
(seriously - watch it some time with a copy of the book in your lap and just follow along)
But if they shot LOTR scene-for-scene, you'd be wasting your time with the Tom Bombadil sideshow
LotR is the culmination of all the history he wrote about Middle Earth. Bombadil has his place in the fabric. Not a scene for everyone I admit.
I'll be the first to say I'm perfectly fine with the range of opinions on this flick. I totally get the nerd rage some would feel over it not meeting their expectations. Hell, I've had it myself many times over the last ten or so years.
The major issue is, there's so little actual talent in Hollywood these days, on both sides of the camera, that my expectations for literally everything being regurgitated from its gaping, pus-filled maw are rather low. I think it's actually an advantage, as a movie-goer, to have zero idea (or very little idea) of backstory or existing canon when it comes to movies like this, as I was with the DC universe in general and the Suicide Squad in particular.
I've had my own nerd rage over Superman Returns and Man of Steel, both positively awful films. But, I grew up with Christopher Reeve blowing me away with Superman and Superman II. Supes vs Bats wasn't a let down, but neither was it impressive at all. It felt more like the studio went, "Hey! Let's do this. Because we can! Not because we have a good script, or director, or producer, or...or...or..." etc.
I don't call myself an actor (I only play at it, I don't make a living at all by it, unlike a lot of my friends on FB) and I know there's others in these forums that could attest to it, perhaps (Starfury for one) as to how f'ed up the movie/television business really is. Not just from an outsider's/moviegoer's perspective, either. Just from my VERY MINOR time involved at such a low level, and from the people I've met and talked to that are actors here, locally that are now doing things like CSI episodes and having screen time in major films, to know that for every piece of crap movie that comes out, there's easily 10,000 scripts that go unnoticed by the studios. Of those 10,000, it stands to reason that a small percentage are actually damn good stories that just might need a little polishing to make them great. But we'll never know, since most of them are not touched. It's all about who you know in Hollywood, and if you don't know anyone important, your stuff isn't getting read. Hell, it might not even make it out of your mailer...it'll probably get shredded without seeing the light of a California day.
Hollywood is a chaotic, mad jumble of insanity, debauchery, one-uppance, and insanity. (Yes, insanity is in there twice on purpose.) Everyone is rushing around to find that 'next big idea' when truthfully, there's plenty of them flying under the radar that they all miss because they're too busy looking like hipster douchebags on Ventura Blvd or Rodeo Drive and air-kissing each other at parties. It's not about the art anymore, even though the Academy will continue to fool itself into thinking that it is.
Daniel's actual reviews at HISHE continue with Suicide Squad:
I saw that. It's a fair assessment of the movie.
Half In the Bag (aka the Plinkett crew) tend to be a quite mixed bag in their reviews, and this one's no exception. They wanted to like it, saw a good movie in there somewhere, but...
I don't think I've seen many reviewers make the
Guardians of the Galaxy connection, but they nailed it -- and Suicide Squad isn't supposed to be GotG.
At all. Only in the most superficially trivial way possible (criminals doing good).
Another interesting impression from their review: this felt like a sequel to a prior movie with flashbacks to catch up new viewers. But it isn't.
this sums up a lot of my feelings toward the SS movie
http://www.vox.com/2016/8/10/12389740/suicide-squad-dc-movie-universe-problems
I saw that Red Letter Media video a few days ago but had to stop it halfway though. It's the only video of theirs that I disagree with.
I didn't get a GotG vibe from SS at all. I mean, once RLM said it in their video, I get it, but it just doesn't feel like they were copying that flick.
Oh well. I loved it, you guys hated it, what's for dinner?
Fried Suicide Squad? >:D
Just kidding. I don't hate it or love it either way; haven't seen it yet, will rectify that at some point.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 10, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Oh well. I loved it, you guys hated it, what's for dinner?
I may be wrong on this, but I don't think others here hated it. I think they were disappointed in it.
^ Fair enough.
It could have been more, but I enjoyed it.
Brant convinced me. I hate this movie :P
Quote from: mirth on August 10, 2016, 06:28:03 PM
Brant convinced me. I hate this movie :P
Nooooooo! You were supposed to bring balance to the reviews, not destroy it!
We went and saw CA:Civil War. Never saw Ultron or Antman. Yet, it was easy to understand what was driving the bad guy. Maybe didn't know much about Vision, Antman, or Scarlet Witch, but had enough background on the others to understand who the people were.
This seems to be the issue the DC has, not knowing how to introduce or develop characters. I have a feeling if we went to see SS, we would leave totally confused.
But that's the thing: I know jack-all about DC characters and I was absolutely fine with the character development.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 10, 2016, 07:21:06 PMI have a feeling if we went to see SS, we would leave totally confused.
You won't be confused, but you will be underinformed compared to the source material
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 10, 2016, 07:28:08 PMBut that's the thing: I know jack-all about DC characters and I was absolutely fine with the character development.
Wait, there was character development in there? I missed it.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 10, 2016, 07:13:07 PM
Quote from: mirth on August 10, 2016, 06:28:03 PM
Brant convinced me. I hate this movie :P
Nooooooo! You were supposed to bring balance to the reviews, not destroy it!
Sorry. You're Mace Windu to Brant's Palpatine.
Can I go make out with Padme now?
Not until you get your X-Wing out of the swamp on Degobah. :knuppel2:
Actually, the nerd rage over this movie is at least half as entertaining as the movie itself.
Most of the complaints I've seen are about how the edits and re-filming chopped it up too much.
Any of you think that was a problem?
I've seen enough of those complaints to be curious about a theoretical expanded cut. The Plinkett crew especially thought there might be a better expanded cut worth trying, even though it wouldn't solve some other problems.
Honestly? It didn't feel at all choppy. Part of my utter confusion as to the hate, is that I think the movie was edited pretty well. I had no problem at all following the story.
I thought there was a sense of two different movies that had been kinda mashed together, but it didn't ruin it for me. The story really doesn't make much sense anyway, so there's no point in thinking about it too much. Again, it's a comic book movie. I sort of expect the story to be incoherent gibberish and secondary to things getting smashed and blowed up by over-the-top characters.
I guess my biggest issue with SS is that the squad wasn't really 'bad'. They were basically troubled heroes who had done some bad things due to their circumstances. I was looking forward to it being about shit so bad that you needed the worst of the worst to handle it.
the original:
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13903397_858427844287466_8282583971172590984_n.jpg?oh=231bc6fb976c8edcbebb209e59b665cf&oe=581F69B2)
^nice
Quote from: mirth on August 11, 2016, 12:47:25 PMI guess my biggest issue with SS is that the squad wasn't really 'bad'. They were basically troubled heroes who had done some bad things due to their circumstances. I was looking forward to it being about shit so bad that you needed the worst of the worst to handle it.
Yes... yes... my padawan... come to the dark side!
I'd have to agree that Harley Quinn wasn't exactly...Harley Quinn enough. I mean, the actor is a badass and nails all her roles, including this one, but HQ was played waaaaay too nice in the second half of the movie. Don't get me wrong, I still thoroughly enjoyed her...but I know enough DC canon to know Harley is about twice as shithouse rat crazy as Joker ever could be.
Margot Robbie did a fantastic job, but that was a pretty tame version of Harley. I'd say that about all of them though. They were conflicted good guys not the bad guys.
Quote from: mirth on August 11, 2016, 04:41:04 PM
Margot Robbie did a fantastic job, but that was a pretty tame version of Harley. I'd say that about all of them though. They were conflicted good guys not the bad guys.
So, no difference between the members of SS and members of Justice League.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 10, 2016, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 10, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Oh well. I loved it, you guys hated it, what's for dinner?
I may be wrong on this, but I don't think others here hated it. I think they were disappointed in it.
Yeah, not a hater, simply not a lover. All the bad reviews lowered my expectations, which is usually a good thing for me as lowered expectations can result in enhanced enjoyment of any half decent film (which might partially explain my semi-positive response to the new Ghostbusters). But my expectations were still higher than they should been because the whole thing is such an awesome concept, topped-off by Will Smith and Margo Robbie.
And we're still talking about it, that's a good thing. Right?
Quote from: OJsDad on August 11, 2016, 04:54:17 PMSo, no difference between the members of SS and members of Justice League.
Nah, the difference is that the writers on Suicide Squad want you to like their characters. The JL folks don't care if you do.
This film was an absolute mess of a story from the start to the finish.
I loved the characters, I loved the premise, I loved the idea - but it was a pure train wreck of a story. There are huge issues with the plot all the way through.
However - in the vein of fairness, here are a couple of reviews.
For the record, I agree with parts of BOTH reviews, but Movie Bob (who isn't my normal "got to" critic - I generally like Angry Joe's stuff) actually said everything I just couldn't put into words when I came out the cinema with my daughter when she said "So, dad...what did you think?"
I don't believe there's any spoilers in here and also, LANGUAGE - it's Movie Bob and Angry Joe - so watcher beware!!
Also - as it seems to be a big point for a lot of people, I LOVED Jared Leto's Joker. But I have no "comic book" look into any of these worlds. It wasn't Heath Ledger - but I liked that take on it.
Also this one - not because she kind of thinks what I think, but because she's lovely and she's right - the DC world is a freakin shambles.
POSSIBLE SPOILER BELOWOne last thing - there was ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason for The Joker to be in this. His role through it made no sense at all. For almost the entire movie I was wondering what his plot line was going to be - and it was freakin' nothing. Simply his relationship with HQ.
Well, Joker created Harley. Or at least, tipped her to he dark side. Joke side? Whatever.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 12, 2016, 08:35:20 AM
Well, Joker created Harley. Or at least, tipped her to he dark side. Joke side? Whatever.
But aside from the back story, there was no reason. I can't say anymore for want of spoiling for people.
I have heard rumours to say that (as with BvS) whatever was left on the cutting floor would make sense. So either they have to sort their story tellers out, or they need a knew cutting guy.
I'm still flummoxed (bamboozled, even), because as I said, I had no problem following the story. I must be wrong with brain.
I didn't have a problem following it. I just didn't think it amounted to much. Some big threat we actually created, you guys go stop it, you all have micro grenades in your brains, blue beam in the sky, hey look - the Joker!, yadda yadda.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX8hdaBN.jpg&hash=2621e6589ec327aa98268915a7e401f422c6fea1)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 12, 2016, 10:40:13 AM
I'm still flummoxed (bamboozled, even), because as I said, I had no problem following the story. I must be wrong with brain.
I wouldn't over think it BC - the world is totally split over this movie. I came out the cinema with my daughter looking expectantly and asking "What did you think?" and in complete honesty, I couldn't tell her. I had this complete mix of feelings of bewilderment, confusion, love, hate, anger!
It's only after watching other reviews (Movie Bob for one) which actually allowed me to put into words what I thought was wrong with it.
Again - I'm no comic book aficionado. I'm no Marvel fanboy. I just want to be entertained. I've no horse in the race but to enjoy my rather expensive experience (£40 or $52) trip to the cinema.
The film sorely let me down. I will definitely buy the Directors Cut DVD to see if what they cut out helps the movie make any bloody sense
I'm truly glad you enjoyed it
That sucks that some of you didn't get the enjoyment out of it that I did.
Yeah, I like CBGril19; but I don't think we need a reboot yet. The next movie can always be better, just like the next movie could always be worse. We're seeing a beginning of a very small course correction foisted onto Suicide Squad, which necessarily (because of the plot) must have been conceived as darker than the two DCEU movies before it. (...EU? really? why not Cinematic Universe? "We're not sniffing the butts of Marvel! We're the EU, not the CU!" {pant pant pant}{sniff})
What gives me some hope that someone somewhere is FINALLLYYY getting it, is that the short JL trailer shown at... ..... was it E3? You know what I mean... that was only a few weeks into shooting, and someone cared enough to get what fx were necessary for it to look right -- but the trailer was really about the tone (despite the grimdark set and lighting design being the same) being different now.
That grim-grey WB logo should be colored like Superman's signia. You literally OWN THAT, Warner Brothers -- so own it! Start from a logo connected to the films that embraces your connection and devotion to the material, instead of something that shows no clue what the material is about. And then build your design to match the hope of that logo.
But even if they don't, they can always get a clue at last and act on that clue at last.
Well, the did (in)famously re-shoot some Suicide Squad stuff after the Deadpool movie hit it big.
Which means that they also went in and did a bunch of re-editing too.
One review even showed the writer or director's (?) post, complaining on social media how the original was so much better before they cut & edited it in the chop shop. ;D
Surely, then, there will be a director's cut of this film?
There's a Director's Cut of every film these days. It'd be great if they could just cut it right the first time.
For everyone who is down on this movie, I will point out that, by all accounts, George Lucas' original cut of Star Wars was unwatchable. It took his wife at the time, Marcia, to turn into something viable.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 12, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Surely, then, there will be a director's cut of this film?
I've very hopeful of it
By all rights, Suicide Squad should have been the dark gritty side of the DCEU. And that's okay, I'm interested in that, just like nominally I'm interested in a funn-er witty version of Suicide Squad -- I don't have any trouble with the "Task Force X" episode of JLA, or the Suicide Squad-centered Arkhamverse animated film. (The only real problem I have with that film, is that it goes too crazy with the fanservice at the end, breaking continuity.) Those are both witty, and the latter is also grimy fun with truly bad not-at-all-misunderstood villains. (Deadshot aside, who still has his daughter in mind, but that's pretty canonical nowadays so it fits.)
The Suicide Squad appearance in the Arrowverse is closer to the comics than the movie is
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2016, 05:20:55 PM
The Suicide Squad appearance in the Arrowverse is closer to the comics than the movie is
This entire sentence pretty much explains why I have zero expectations for any DC movie or TV series when I first watch it. I realize when it comes to TV/Movies that the Marvel franchises are only tentatively aligned but the DC 'Universe' is more schizophrenic than the Joker on his worst day.
When you say 'Arrowverse,' are you referring to the Arrow series on Netflix or some other outlet?
Arrow from CW, which crosses over into Flash and I guess Supergirl now. They've actually done a good job of building a DC verse.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 12, 2016, 06:38:52 PM
When you say 'Arrowverse,' are you referring to the Arrow series on Netflix or some other outlet?
Si señor
I watched the first five or so episodes of Season 1. I remember it was good but it's tough these days for me to binge watch like I used to. I'll have to get back to it at some point and start the series again.
I've seen the Flash (Season 1 on Netflix anyway) and remember the crossover there.
https://theringer.com/the-winners-and-losers-of-suicide-squad-262893f04ee
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 15, 2016, 11:10:12 AM
https://theringer.com/the-winners-and-losers-of-suicide-squad-262893f04ee (https://theringer.com/the-winners-and-losers-of-suicide-squad-262893f04ee)
Quote
Me to a friend after the movie: "They really wasted Tom Hardy, huh?"
Friend: "That was Jai Courtney."
:2funny:
Saw it again yesterday with Jr., and I enjoyed it more the second time.
You're hardcore, 40.
I saw it tonight with my wife.
I enjoyed it quite a bit - more than my wife did which is highly unusual.
This movie has two excellent villain's - and I consider Amanda Waller to be a villain. Best super hero villains since Loki.
The plot was predictable and the action scenes were dark. The wife complained that "DC always shoots their fight scenes in the dark. Marvel fights in the daytime and I like that."
But the villain was to me at least an interesting allegory of Satan and his empty promises compared to the hope of redemption to save your soul if you (eventually) repent from evil. Also how our actions on a day to day basis determine if we choose good or evil. My wife saw this also, but found it more formulaic for her tastes.
Not as good as Deadpool or Captain America Civil War. But I liked it more than Captain America the Winter Soldier or Avengers Age of Ultron.
In sum, I was very pleasantly surprised how good this was.
Now for the controversial opinion. Harley's butt is better than Black Widow's.
Quote from: airboy on August 23, 2016, 11:04:27 PM
I saw it tonight with my wife.
I enjoyed it quite a bit - more than my wife did which is highly unusual.
This movie has two excellent villain's - and I consider Amanda Waller to be a villain. Best super hero villains since Loki.
The plot was predictable and the action scenes were dark. The wife complained that "DC always shoots their fight scenes in the dark. Marvel fights in the daytime and I like that."
But the villain was to me at least an interesting allegory of Satan and his empty promises compared to the hope of redemption to save your soul if you (eventually) repent from evil. Also how our actions on a day to day basis determine if we choose good or evil. My wife saw this also, but found it more formulaic for her tastes.
Not as good as Deadpool or Captain America Civil War. But I liked it more than Captain America the Winter Soldier or Avengers Age of Ultron.
In sum, I was very pleasantly surprised how good this was.
Now for the controversial opinion. Harley's butt is better than Black Widow's.
I thought your post was rubbish until I saw this bit
Then I knew it was rubbish >:D
^ I think the key component in the above two posts is the word "rub." I think these gents can agree on that when it comes to either subject.
;D