Let's say you wanted to play ww2 from start to finish. From the blitzkrieg to the final push in the Pacific. Yes, this would take a long, long time to accomplish, but please, play along with my geekdom :D
Which game or series of games would you use for this endeavor?
SPWaW?
JT Panzer Battles?
JTCS?
Any other games come to mind?
I prefer turn based and I DESPISE RTS. Smaller units over larger units.
Thanks for indulging my silly inquiry! :uglystupid2:
Game on!!
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
Thanks undercover
CM is out for me. Too complicated (tried the demo and was lost even after a couple hours)
I have a naval game already.
Looking for land warfare only!
I forget the name but battlefront did a panzer general style game that included the Pacific and Africa
Strategic Command: Global Conflict covers the entire war, all theaters, start to finish. But it isn't small units. Also check out Supreme Ruler 1936. I'm not sure what you are asking for even exists. I could be wrong. I await other replies.
Quote from: Rayfer on January 28, 2016, 12:22:06 PM
Strategic Command: Global Conflict covers the entire war, all theaters, start to finish. But it isn't small units. Also check out Supreme Ruler 1936. I'm not sure what you are asking for even exists. I could be wrong. I await other replies.
SPWaW and the JTCS has all nations OOB's and with both games you can, as far as I know (i've not played either) create your own battles/scenarios. You have access to every nations units from 39-45
I do prefer the more 3D look over top down or the nato counter style hence my choices I've listed, but again, I'm not a "pro" when it comes to war gaming knowledge.
It sounds to me that the OP is not necessarily requesting that this feat be accomplished all in one title.
You're going to be hard pressed to find anything of operational or strategic value that isn't somewhat "complicated". I mean really, if CM is too complicated for you, you might want to explore a different niche. You just need to watch a Let's Play, or maybe read an AAR or two and you should be able to hit the ground running.
Really though, the games that cover the full breadth and scope of the war, ie. WitP, WitW, WitE, Supreme Ruler 1936, HOI, etc. are going to require some effort to learn and play. Everything else that is sort of just pick-up and play is going to be beer and pretzels, or on the tactical level, and I believe you've also stated you aren't interested in games like Panzer General.
I would second Rayfer's suggetion though...the SC series may be your best bet. It ain't pretty though! :uglystupid2:
Good luck.
Steel Panthers World War II is free version of the original Steel Panthers game and covers the entire war ETO and PTO but not in one campaign. There are hundreds of scenarios and some campaigns that cover parts of the war, just not the entire war in one campaign. If that's what you're looking for. It's VERY dated though and VERY turn-based. And slow as hell sometimes but with a good AI and it is small unit-ish--- squad sized. I still got it on my hard drive but rarely play anymore. But you can't find a more detailed unit roster anywhere.
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 28, 2016, 12:52:02 PM
Steel Panthers World War II is free version of the original Steel Panthers game and covers the entire war ETO and PTO but not in one campaign. There are hundreds of scenarios and some campaigns that cover parts of the war, just not the entire war in one campaign. If that's what you're looking for. It's VERY dated though and VERY turn-based. And slow as hell sometimes but with a good AI and it is small unit-ish--- squad sized. I still got it on my hard drive but rarely play anymore. But you can't find a more detailed unit roster anywhere.
That's what's killing me. I don't like top down graphics, but I know SPWaW enhanced ed (better graphics and as much as I dislike top down, I at least want them to look purdy :) has everything all in one game and at a unit level I like.
Panzer Battles has the 3D look (most of them do) but the 3 titles only cover Eastern war 43-45 and Western war from 44-45.
JTCS is like SPWaW in that it also has every nations OOB and can be played in smaller battles. Graphics are dated but I do like the 3D look.
I just don't have much experience in any of these titles and I wonder which would offer the better outcome for me.
Guess I just need to un-clench and take a plunge :uglystupid2:
Tiller's Campaign Series for the small scale action. Covers the whole time period and all theaters.
HOI2: Darkest Hour for the large scale action. (Or possibly HOI3 with the latest Black Ice mod.) If you add the current edition of the Grand Campaign mod (formerly called "AAR"), you can start the action a few days before WW1 and go through to the 1990s (and 2010 tech).
Just get Tillers Squad Battles and call it a day.
HOI is a RTS.
Quote from: Bison on January 28, 2016, 02:26:13 PM
Just get Tillers Squad Battles and call it a day.
I would Bison but the issue I have is only 3 of the 5 titles have 3D unit capability and I'd have to spend $130ish for the three titles.
But, I do see your logic, thanks
Quote from: acctingman on January 28, 2016, 03:05:44 PM
Quote from: Bison on January 28, 2016, 02:26:13 PM
Just get Tillers Squad Battles and call it a day.
I would Bison but the issue I have is only 3 of the 5 titles have 3D unit capability and I'd have to spend $130ish for the three titles.
But, I do see your logic, thanks
The psuedo-3D display in the Squad Battles series sucks.
While I prefer to use it in the Campaign Series over the 2D counters, I can't do it in SB. It just looks terrible. Worst fake 3D of all the Tiller games. The dimensions also seem to be off in that mode.
Quote from: MetalDog on January 28, 2016, 03:01:59 PM
HOI is a RTS.
It's generally a slow RTS with pausable play, so I think of it more as a WEGO game. Still, you're right, I should have qualified that.
HoI 4 does look pretty neat but it doesn't look like it will be out until the end of fall
Quote from: acctingman on January 28, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 28, 2016, 12:22:06 PM
Strategic Command: Global Conflict covers the entire war, all theaters, start to finish. But it isn't small units. Also check out Supreme Ruler 1936. I'm not sure what you are asking for even exists. I could be wrong. I await other replies.
SPWaW and the JTCS has all nations OOB's and with both games you can, as far as I know (i've not played either) create your own battles/scenarios. You have access to every nations units from 39-45
I do prefer the more 3D look over top down or the nato counter style hence my choices I've listed, but again, I'm not a "pro" when it comes to war gaming knowledge.
It might be a bit more work but Strategic Command: Global Conflict does have a campaign editor. For me, it's the best 'whole WWII' game.
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
Quote from: jomni on January 28, 2016, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
He wants to game the ENTIRE war in tactical scale? OK, that will take awhile.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 28, 2016, 05:34:37 PM
Quote from: jomni on January 28, 2016, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
He wants to game the ENTIRE war in tactical scale? OK, that will take awhile.
Married to a woman who is very independent and we have no kids. I have time :uglystupid2:
:o Does such a game exist?
Not just tactical for the entire war, all theaters, but 3D and not very complex, but not Panzer General.
I'm pretty sure not as either a single game or a series.
There are a range of Close Combat titles. Try that route.
it's almost like you need a WWII scenario for the Civ series :D
Man up and learn to play ASL. There's scenarios to cover battles on every front, every action....EVERY one. And there's no NATO symbols. ;)
Quote from: bbmike on January 28, 2016, 05:47:54 PM
:o Does such a game exist?
I was wondering myself... ???
Quote from: bayonetbrant on January 28, 2016, 06:24:20 PM
it's almost like you need a WWII scenario for the Civ series :D
I'd buy that for a dollar! ^-^
Take the time to learn to play Combat Mission. It's worth it.
Quote from: Toonces on January 28, 2016, 08:20:48 PM
Take the time to learn to play Combat Mission. It's worth it.
+1 QFT. And, if you're playing it real-time, try playing it in turn-based mode. You'll probably find it easier to get your head around.
Quote from: acctingman on January 28, 2016, 12:16:07 PM
Thanks undercover
CM is out for me. Too complicated (tried the demo and was lost even after a couple hours)
I have a naval game already.
Looking for land warfare only!
I think you're pretty much out of luck for the Pacific War if you don't want a naval game. It was 90% a naval war. OK, make it naval/air.
Also, those guys are right. Combat Mission rocks. And once you learn it, it isn't that difficult to play, at least so long as you avoid the monster scenarios.
Agreed. Nothing like CM. So many great CM stories to tell of heroic pixeltruppen and last turn firefights for a victory. But she can be a mean bitch when she's on the rag. No other game leaves me wondering where the hell that shot came from.
CM has no Pacific.
Are you all talking about the early titles of Combat Mission or the newer versions?
Thanks
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 12:46:43 AM
Are you all talking about the early titles of Combat Mission or the newer versions?
Thanks
Newer gives you France, Italy, Russia and shortly bulge
Tried JT Squad Battles:Red Victory last night and I just could not get into it. I wasn't glued to my PC when I was playing it. It looks like crap, didn't like the interface/controls and it just didn't "feel" right to me. JTSC is going to be out too since they are similar.
So, I've come to realize my plan (finding a fun game that doesn't take a mathematics degree to play and still somewhat accurate depicting all theaters of war for WW2) is a pipe dream.
SPWaW is too dated for me and boring and Battle Academy series is too cartoonish and swings to the other end of the complexity swing (too simple).
Time to either dive into Combat Mission 2 games or go the board game route.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.
Personally, I much prefer the older CM titles (CMx1) as I think that they play much easier than the newer series and I feel more connected to the units on the map. But that very well may be because I was so involved with CMx1 when it first came out until it was dropped like a Kardashian when CMx2 came out. I get that graphics/appearance is very high on your list of preferences but you might want to give them a try....and there are gobs of mods that does make it look much better than the stock graphics:
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=0&Itemid=318
And I was half-joking half-not about ASL. Check out the Starter Kits for ASL and if you think that would appeal to you, there is a very active (and encouraging and helpful) community out there that can teach you how to play (yes, on the computer).
Quote from: GJK on January 29, 2016, 09:49:35 AM
Personally, I much prefer the older CM titles (CMx1) as I think that they play much easier than the newer series and I feel more connected to the units on the map. But that very well may be because I was so involved with CMx1 when it first came out until it was dropped like a Kardashian when CMx2 came out. I get that graphics/appearance is very high on your list of preferences but you might want to give them a try....and there are gobs of mods that does make it look much better than the stock graphics:
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=0&Itemid=318
And I was half-joking half-not about ASL. Check out the Starter Kits for ASL and if you think that would appeal to you, there is a very active (and encouraging and helpful) community out there that can teach you how to play (yes, on the computer).
ASL is in my list of things a gamer should do, its a hobby in itself, all other boardgames are nowhere near it. I have a high when I setup the board,
Never tried ASL. I do, however, really like Conflict of Heroes.
Granted there are only a few games out.
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 10:16:23 AM
Never tried ASL. I do, however, really like Conflict of Heroes.
Granted there are only a few games out.
its a must do , ASL is simply miles ahead of anything , its a hard game to learn, but once learned ...
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 28, 2016, 05:34:37 PM
Quote from: jomni on January 28, 2016, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
He wants to game the ENTIRE war in tactical scale? OK, that will take awhile.
We actually had a PBEM tournament at Blitz Wargaming Club (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=57207) where we played all H2H scenarios, from Spanish Civil War until the bitter end, all fronts, from Spain to Africa to Eastern Steppes to Pacific :D
It started on October 2010 and ended on December 2014.
Was fun of epic proportions :knuppel2: :smitten:
^^ That thread accumulated 425K views. Not bad for such a groggy PBEM tournament ;D
Quote from: Crossroads on January 29, 2016, 10:27:01 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 28, 2016, 05:34:37 PM
Quote from: jomni on January 28, 2016, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
He wants to game the ENTIRE war in tactical scale? OK, that will take awhile.
We actually had a PBEM tournament at Blitz Wargaming Club (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=57207) where we played all H2H scenarios, from Spanish Civil War until the bitter end, all fronts, from Spain to Africa to Eastern Steppes to Pacific :D
It started on October 2010 and ended on December 2014.
Was fun of epic proportions :knuppel2: :smitten:
WOW!!....epic!
I think my dream is dead.
I want a "pretty" game more than anything. Which tells me I'm doing this for the wrong reasons. Gaming, especially war gaming, shouldn't be for something that is mainly eye candy. I know graphics can have importance, but I want something that is aesthetically pleasing, some what simple and encompasses the entire war.
People are right. It doesn't exist.
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on January 29, 2016, 10:27:01 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 28, 2016, 05:34:37 PM
Quote from: jomni on January 28, 2016, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 28, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
Combat mission to cover the ETO
Witp ae for the Pacific
The guy is looking for tactical scale.
JTCS is the cheapest. All in one package. Since he ruled out the free SPWW2 (Steel Panthers).
He wants to game the ENTIRE war in tactical scale? OK, that will take awhile.
We actually had a PBEM tournament at Blitz Wargaming Club (http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=57207) where we played all H2H scenarios, from Spanish Civil War until the bitter end, all fronts, from Spain to Africa to Eastern Steppes to Pacific :D
It started on October 2010 and ended on December 2014.
Was fun of epic proportions :knuppel2: :smitten:
WOW!!....epic!
I think my dream is dead.
I want a "pretty" game more than anything. Which tells me I'm doing this for the wrong reasons. Gaming, especially war gaming, shouldn't be for something that is mainly eye candy. I know graphics can have importance, but I want something that is aesthetically pleasing, some what simple and encompasses the entire war.
People are right. It doesn't exist.
World in flames may be of interest, but only solitaire no A.I. but it has enforced rules, I have it but I'm waiting for A.I. but its a vast ww2 game from matrix
There's always this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqAbQYN4.jpg&hash=a27af706e5a5062d73cf2dd4f81f62703c3e1ffe)
But it's not on a tactical scale.
Yea, but I do prefer tactical over operational, hence the pipe dream comment :o
How would such a game play out?
Every battle of ww2 on a tactical level?
I don't see much fun in Okinawa or any Japanese held lump of coral the marines have to take back?
And what unit scale? Company? Each man like brothers in arms - you'd be old and grey before you got to d day
CM 1 Had many mods including a PTO mod and Spanish Civil War scenarios as well as an early ETO mod too. The pacific mod was great but because of the games limitations on amphibious landings, any scenario that included one could be murder to try to win-- like the Tarawa scenario in the mod. Still they were well done and added a whole new feel to the game. And I still miss them. :'(
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 29, 2016, 11:11:54 AM
How would such a game play out?
Every battle of ww2 on a tactical level?
I don't see much fun in Okinawa or any Japanese held lump of coral the marines have to take back?
And what unit scale? Company? Each man like brothers in arms - you'd be old and grey before you got to d day
Not every battle.....but having access to every nations OOB and the ability to throw together a battle covering all the aspects of ww2.
Creating every battle at a platoon/squad level would take 2 lifetimes :o
I'm still searching. I need to try some demo's. CM x2 is just too complex for me, for now.
JT games are just too dated for me, as SPWaW and I just do not like the clunkiness of either game.
As cartoonish as it looks, I think I will go with the Battle Academy series (as a few have suggested).
I LOVE world war 2, historically. Love the equipment, the battles, the generals, the tactics/strategies involved, but I have ZERO gaming experience in it.
I'm an MMO'er. That's been 90% of my gaming experience in the last 25 years.
I need to start off slow.....baby steps, and Battle Academy is probably a good starting point. With the original series and it's 5 or so xpacs, it covers almost the entire war (minus the Pacific).
From there, maybe I can move on to something a little more accurate and challenging (Combat Mission x2 games perhaps)
Probably Steel Panthers, though Squad Battles comes in as a close second. Battle Academy is worth a mention, but it only covers Europe. The two Combat Mission series (CMx1 and CMx2) are the best tactical games out there, but they only cover parts of Europe. CMAK from CMx1 will give you some early war, but not as much as Steel Panthers.
I really wish someone would take the land war in Asia a little more seriously. I'm excited that Order of Battle's latest game covers the first part of the war in China, because I'm hoping it will start a trend. There's a lot more to that war than mopping up little islands in the Pacific covered with jungle: Khalkin Gol and Nomohan, the long war (and march) in China, the blitzkrieg in Malaya and the fall of Singapore, Burma and the invasion of India, Imphal and Kohima, the Soviet blitz in Manchuria. We suffer from cultural myopia so none of that stuff exists.
I keep wanting to get Order of Battle so I can play Rising Sun, but I suspect I won't like that kind of game and I hear the AI is a bit wobbly in places.
Quote from: Philippe on January 29, 2016, 11:29:08 AM
Probably Steel Panthers, though Squad Battles comes in as a close second. Battle Academy is worth a mention, but it only covers Europe. The two Combat Mission series (CMx1 and CMx2) are the best tactical games out there, but they only cover parts of Europe. CMAK from CMx1 will give you some early war, but not as much as Steel Panthers.
I really wish someone would take the land war in Asia a little more seriously. I'm excited that Order of Battle's latest game covers the first part of the war in China, because I'm hoping it will start a trend. There's a lot more to that war than mopping up little islands in the Pacific covered with jungle: Khalkin Gol and Nomohan, the long war (and march) in China, the blitzkrieg in Malaya and the fall of Singapore, Burma and the invasion of India, Imphal and Kohima, the Soviet blitz in Manchuria. We suffer from cultural myopia so none of that stuff exists.
I keep wanting to get Order of Battle so I can play Rising Sun, but I suspect I won't like that kind of game and I hear the AI is a bit wobbly in places.
I believe the BA 1 series covers it all expect the Pacific.
SPWaW is just too dated for me and clunky, but yes, it offers the entire war
Did we say panzer general?
I actually rather like Battle Academy. And Bill Peters (of Tiller Napoleonics fame) designed the Metz campaign scenarios.
The game isn't as tactically intense as Combat Mission, and it does have a few annoying game conventions, but you do find yourself using something resembling real tactics to solve the scenario puzzles.
If you do get Battle Academy 1, make sure you take a look at my flag mod. I don't have a screenshot handy right now, but here's a link to the Matrix forum:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3843216
Everybody seems to think that making a historical flag mod is about putting swastikas on German flags. But the hardest part about the Battle Academy mod was the American flag. It's infuriating how many games get the American flag wrong, and the difference between a 48-star and a 50-star flag is incredibly easy to spot (you don't need to count the stars: the modern flag's stars are in a checkerboard pattern, the WW II flag's stars were in straight rows and columns).
I never made a flag mod for Battle Academy 2 because it isn't really needed.
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 29, 2016, 11:34:39 AM
Did we say panzer general?
IMO, Panzer general is too simple. Running around with 10 Maus tanks doesn't feel right to me. Neat game and it's immensely popular, but it's not for me.
That was the word I was going out of my way not to use when I was talking about Order of Battle Pacific.
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
People are right. It doesn't exist.
It does but not in a computer game. If CM did the Pacific, then yes, you could play a bunch of scenarios in order from early war to late, from Europe to the Pacific. That doesn't exist though. The Tiller games may have the range of selection of scenarios but it isn't going to work for you aesthetically. It does exist on the boardgaming front and if ASL isn't a consideration, Combat Commander (GMT Games) could be something to look in to as they have modules for all fronts of the war.
EEk! I completely slighted the LnL series...they would do nicely here as well have probably the most beautiful of graphics of all the games out these days. Check out www.lnlpublishing.com
Thanks GJK
I honestly don't understand what's wrong with JT's Campaign Series. Except for blingy graphics, it has everything you want, from West Front to East Front to PTO. And its gfx are better than most JT games. And it's more complex than Panzer Generalish games, but not as complex as Combat Mission (or arguably even Close Combat). It's turn based; it has campaigns of linked scenarios; it's multiple squad-level combat. It doesn't feature much naval and air action, but it's a multi-squad level game. IT HAS BICYCLE SQUADS!
Bicycle.
Squads.
On bicycles.
It has that kind of unit variety.
I thought we used to have a campaign AAR here on Grogheads, for one of the linked campaigns (Germans vs Russians). Maybe that was at WarGGLGGLSLSHTTHHHEEENAMETHATSHALLNOTBESPOKENNNN...?
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 29, 2016, 02:33:51 PM
I honestly don't understand what's wrong with JT's Campaign Series. Except for blingy graphics, it has everything you want, from West Front to East Front to PTO. And its gfx are better than most JT games. And it's more complex than Panzer Generalish games, but not as complex as Combat Mission (or arguably even Close Combat). It's turn based; it has campaigns of linked scenarios; it's multiple squad-level combat. It doesn't feature much naval and air action, but it's a multi-squad level game. IT HAS BICYCLE SQUADS!
Bicycle.
Squads.
On bicycles.
It has that kind of unit variety.
I thought we used to have a campaign AAR here on Grogheads, for one of the linked campaigns (Germans vs Russians). Maybe that was at WarGGLGGLSLSHTTHHHEEENAMETHATSHALLNOTBESPOKENNNN...?
Can't agree with you more Jason, but I'm going to sink my teeth into the Battle Academy series for now. It's probably more "dumbed down" than the CS, and that's good. I need to start somewhere. When BA get's too easy for me, then I'll start with the CS or maybe something a little more complex than BA
Thanks for your contribution to the thread, much appreciated O0
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 29, 2016, 02:33:51 PM
I honestly don't understand what's wrong with JT's Campaign Series. Except for blingy graphics, it has everything you want, from West Front to East Front to PTO. And its gfx are better than most JT games. And it's more complex than Panzer Generalish games, but not as complex as Combat Mission (or arguably even Close Combat). It's turn based; it has campaigns of linked scenarios; it's multiple squad-level combat. It doesn't feature much naval and air action, but it's a multi-squad level game. IT HAS BICYCLE SQUADS!
Bicycle.
Squads.
On bicycles.
It has that kind of unit variety.
I thought we used to have a campaign AAR here on Grogheads, for one of the linked campaigns (Germans vs Russians). Maybe that was at WarGGLGGLSLSHTTHHHEEENAMETHATSHALLNOTBESPOKENNNN...?
Bicycles are one of the many reasons I will always love France '14.
My problem with the Campaign Series is that I dislike the UI. That circle in the upper right hand corner of the screen drives me nuts.
The Campaign Series tend to be better games because at the time it was made Tiller wasn't running the show. It was a Talonsoft extravaganza, and they signed on some of the best board game designers in the industry to write/adapt their scenarios. Many of those designers ended up sticking with board games, because with a board game you can crank out dozens of designs ad libidem without being at the mercy of a programmer who doesn't always get it.
For me, that's a really compelling reason to play the Campaign Series. But I don't because I simply don't like the interface.
Battle Academy is a lot of fun and I found that over time the graphics actually grew on me.
That's great feedback, Phillipe.
Which circle specifically?
As we will eventually be upgrading the UI, it is nice to know what you'd actually like to see.
Quote from: Jason Petho on January 29, 2016, 03:15:22 PM
That's great feedback, Phillipe.
Which circle specifically?
As we will eventually be upgrading the UI, it is nice to know what you'd actually like to see.
I'm thinking he means this?
Pressing U on the keyboard will open up the Unit List, which is far more useful.
I never play without it on.
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Jason Petho on January 29, 2016, 03:15:22 PM
That's great feedback, Phillipe.
Which circle specifically?
As we will eventually be upgrading the UI, it is nice to know what you'd actually like to see.
I'm thinking he means this?
It's not so much a question of what I would like to see, it's more a question of what I would never like to see.
I have only played the Talonsoft versions of the Matrix's Tiller games so I wouldn't know about the Matrix versions.
I've never bothered with the Matrix versions because I've OD'd on Tiller direct from the source. Until recently the few changes from the originals that I could detect in the screenshots looked pretty minor.
I recognize that my attitude is grounded in being an owner of the old Talonsoft Napoleonic and Civil War games, and being excessively familiar (courtesy of modding) with how much better the newer Tiller engines for those games actually are (not to mention that the coverage of the different battles is very extensive). The only thing the old Talonsoft games have over the JTS/HPS games is hand-painted mapscreens (which severly limit the size of the maps that are available). As far as the game engine goes, the current JTS/HPS games are in every way superior (though not without faults).
But I also realize that it probably isn't fair to think that because the JTS/HPS Napoleonic and Civil War battles games are using engines that are x better than the Talonsoft originals, that it isn't appropriate to assume that the modern warfare analogs suffer from the same fate. After all, a Panzer Campaigns equivalent didn't exist back in Talonsoft days, and even Panzer Campaigns is starting to be replaced with a newer game system/engine.
Circling back to the original question, there are two problems with the command circle in the upper right-hand corner.
The first is that it's there, it looks awful, and it's counter-immersive. If it were never there at all that would be a big improvement.
The second problem is that it's annoying to use. There's a reason why it's only been used once in one game series in the last thirty years, and it isn't one that has to do with intellectual property. Dodo's are extinct for a reason.
I don't have the Matrix version of any of the Campaign Series games and it's been a while since I played the Talonsoft versions (I'm also fairly long in the tooth so please don't make too many strenuous demands on my memory). But I have played a fair amount with the Battle Academy engines, and I've never particularly liked fiddling around with the unit menu's for those games, even when Richard Bodely Scott was holding my hand and trying to talk me through it. So what I'm trying to say is you probably will need to come up with a UI and command mechanic that you invent
de novo.
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
WOW!!....epic!
I think my dream is dead.
I want a "pretty" game more than anything. Which tells me I'm doing this for the wrong reasons. Gaming, especially war gaming, shouldn't be for something that is mainly eye candy. I know graphics can have importance, but I want something that is aesthetically pleasing, some what simple and encompasses the entire war.
People are right. It doesn't exist.
I'm guessing someone already suggested the
Men Of War series?
Judging by your prerequisites of being simple, tactical, yet looking somewhat pretty.
I don't think you'll find exactly that anytime soon.. maybe not in a lifetime. Not turn-based at least.
Quote from: Bison on January 29, 2016, 03:15:01 PM
Battle Academy is a lot of fun and I found that over time the graphics actually grew on me.
Same.
I've planned on picking up BA2 on one of the sales but keep putting it off. Still have too much yet to play.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 29, 2016, 05:17:47 PM
Quote from: acctingman on January 29, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
WOW!!....epic!
I think my dream is dead.
I want a "pretty" game more than anything. Which tells me I'm doing this for the wrong reasons. Gaming, especially war gaming, shouldn't be for something that is mainly eye candy. I know graphics can have importance, but I want something that is aesthetically pleasing, some what simple and encompasses the entire war.
People are right. It doesn't exist.
I'm guessing someone already suggested the Men Of War series?
Judging by your prerequisites of being simple, tactical, yet looking somewhat pretty.
I don't think you'll find exactly that anytime soon.. maybe not in a lifetime. Not turn-based at least.
I loathe RTS, not sure why, but I cannot stand it.
Maybe because I'm slow :uglystupid2:
Have you tried pausable RTS? Where you press the Space bar or click something onscreen in order to stop the action/timer?
Quote from: MetalDog on January 29, 2016, 08:02:12 PM
Have you tried pausable RTS? Where you press the Space bar or click something onscreen in order to stop the action/timer?
Then you're just playing, "press the Space Bar" all the time. :P
True. But you can get everything he wants out of a game of Hearts Of Iron III if he'll do that.
Quote from: MetalDog on January 29, 2016, 09:08:44 PM
True. But you can get everything he wants out of a game of Hearts Of Iron III if he'll do that.
Thumb calluses? :))
There is that level of click to it. Still a lot of fun though :)
Quote from: Philippe on January 29, 2016, 04:28:00 PM
Circling back to the original question, there are two problems with the command circle in the upper right-hand corner.
The first is that it's there, it looks awful, and it's counter-immersive. If it were never there at all that would be a big improvement.
The second problem is that it's annoying to use. There's a reason why it's only been used once in one game series in the last thirty years, and it isn't one that has to do with intellectual property. Dodo's are extinct for a reason.
I don't have the Matrix version of any of the Campaign Series games and it's been a while since I played the Talonsoft versions (I'm also fairly long in the tooth so please don't make too many strenuous demands on my memory). But I have played a fair amount with the Battle Academy engines, and I've never particularly liked fiddling around with the unit menu's for those games, even when Richard Bodely Scott was holding my hand and trying to talk me through it. So what I'm trying to say is you probably will need to come up with a UI and command mechanic that you invent de novo.
Just to make sure I understand your point, you are referring to the unit 'infobox' as the command circle you talk about. The one in a picture few posts above?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrogheads.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D16014.0%3Battach%3D6815%3Bimage&hash=1eccbc1b1f945f3997aa00b9c03a6212d98fac15)
This might be the case not recalling it correctly, as the infobox is static. I guess originally it was designed to save screen estate from the side unit bar, which can toggled on or off. Sidebar shows all the units in a hex, while the single infobox shows only the active unit.
With larger displays unit sidebar can be left on, that's how I use it too. Here's a screenshot from an old JTCS West Front AAR of mine:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi900.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac206%2Fphn_at_cs%2FKuva10.jpg&hash=0c774efa3c930eb3e3cc54b117286383a283b8be)
Yes, the circle in the upper-right hand corner is the info box.
I wouldn't want to see it ever, and I would want it function to be fulfilled in a completely different way.
My fading memory (probably wrong) tells me that the circle itself doesn't move, but that you click or slide (shudder!) something around that circle.
I haven't fired up one of these games in this century. But I distinctly recall that having to see and/or use that circle is what put me off.
^^ I haven't fired up the Talonsoft version for ages, either. Don't recall how this functioned there to be honest. I'd guess it was static then as well but I may be wrong of course. Regarless, with Matrix versions of the game you can move it about, should you like to see it. Or toggle the Sidebar on to never see it again :knuppel2:
I'm not sure I see the point of moving it, you'd still see it.
Toggling it off doesn't do much either as long as you have to use it.
Shortcut keys are not a good alternative (though they're useful).
You need to reprogram the interface.
^^ It is not used for anything though, thst's what I meant by it being static. It is how the game currently portrays a 'unit card'. That said, new unit cards are in the internal wishlist, among many other things...
The only time you had to move "the box" was when you selected multiple units and there wasn't enough space to display all the unit info boxes. Then you'd just have to mouse wheel, or wotnot, to scroll down the list. Typical Windows-type stuff.
Didn't bother me a bit.
Don't understand Phillipe's issue with the info box at all. ??? Was actually quite informative of the many unit status values, which aren't all shown on the map at once. I wouldn't play without the info box. It's an essential part of the UI. Nearly every turn-based wargame has such an info box. *shrug*