So, after buying Battle Academy 1 & 2 (and still enjoying it) I've found myself perusing the Battlefront forums looking at the various AAR's for all the CM x2 titles.
It's like being at the Jaguar shop and drooling all over myself looking at the pretty precious shinny things.....that I know are scary!! :uglystupid2:
I'm going to finish off the BA games and once I'm done I'll download the CMBN demo. I know this game has a pretty steep learning curve which has scared me off for years (since I have ZERO WW2 tactical gaming experience.....and I'm a big sissy), but......these games are just too damn pretty for me not to try.
So, anyone want to offer some tips of what you experienced and how you learned to play? I've got the Armchair general videos all lined up to view and a very fine gent's Blog to view from the Battlefront forums.
Thanks folks!.....wish me luck! O0
Quote from: acctingman on February 09, 2016, 03:46:30 PM
So, after buying Battle Academy 1 & 2 (and still enjoying it) I've found myself perusing the Battlefront forums looking at the various AAR's for all the CM x2 titles.
It's like being at the Jaguar shop and drooling all over myself looking at the pretty precious shinny things.....that I know are scary!! :uglystupid2:
I'm going to finish off the BA games and once I'm done I'll download the CMBN demo. I know this game has a pretty steep learning curve which has scared me off for years (since I have ZERO WW2 tactical gaming experience.....and I'm a big sissy), but......these games are just too damn pretty for me not to try.
So, anyone want to offer some tips of what you experienced and how you learned to play? I've got the Armchair general videos all lined up to view and a very fine gent's Blog to view from the Battlefront forums.
Thanks folks!.....wish me luck! O0
Read some books on real life small unit tactics. Playing the game properly and not as some RTS is where it really shines and its one of very few where some semblance of real life tactics actually work.
As some one on their forums once said - play it like you were there.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on February 09, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Playing the game properly and not as some RTS is where it really shines and its one of very few where some semblance of real life tactics actually work. As some one on their forums once said - play it like you were there.
^Very much this.
The kind of Rambo-ing you do almost as a reflex in games like Company of Heroes leads to utter and complete disaster in CMx2.
CMx2 is the first game that really drilled into me the idea that attacking any defended position is highly dangerous. Not just heavily fortified positions. Any position. 3-4 attacker casualties per 1 defender casualty is often par for the course.
Also, a single, well-concealed 2-man squad with a Panzerschreck can really make life miserable for your platoon of Shermans. Accompany your AFVs with infantry.
The game is a lot more unforgiving than Graviteam Tactics / Operation Star (which frankly does a pretty terrible job of modelling infantry combat, much as I love that game).
But dive in -- these are tremendous games. And I highly recommend playing WEGO rather than real-time with pause.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on February 09, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Read some books on real life small unit tactics. Playing the game properly and not as some RTS is where it really shines and its one of very few where some semblance of real life tactics actually work.
As some one on their forums once said - play it like you were there.
This is very true - but it is only one half of the equation. Like with any game, you have to learn how it abstracts the real world into the virtual one. You may know that you want to order an experienced scout team to sneak up to a gap in the bocage and report back what they see without drawing attention to themselves (all do-able in the game), but you'll need to RTFM in order to know how to do so. There are no real short-cuts to this, although the game ships with some tutorial missions IIRC. Anyhow, finding out how to play is not really that scary.
One bit of general advice that I might give is to not treat the game as something to "win" at - it's more of a way to experience the problems faced by the commanders of the time.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 09, 2016, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on February 09, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Playing the game properly and not as some RTS is where it really shines and its one of very few where some semblance of real life tactics actually work. As some one on their forums once said - play it like you were there.
^Very much this.
The kind of Rambo-ing you do almost as a reflex in games like Company of Heroes leads to utter and complete disaster in CMx2.
CMx2 is the first game that really drilled into me the idea that attacking any defended position is highly dangerous. Not just heavily fortified positions. Any position. 3-4 attacker casualties per 1 defender casualty is often par for the course.
Also, a single, well-concealed 2-man squad with a Panzerschreck can really make life miserable for your platoon of Shermans. Accompany your AFVs with infantry.
The game is a lot more unforgiving than Graviteam Tactics / Operation Star (which frankly does a pretty terrible job of modelling infantry combat, much as I love that game).
But dive in -- these are tremendous games. And I highly recommend playing WEGO rather than real-time with pause.
Yes I would definitely go WEGO ... when CMX2 first came out I started playing realtime and thought it was the better way to go - but soon realised that doing so misses so much of what CM is. All those little things that happen that you miss in realtime and the lack of control it presents. Anything above a platoon it soon becomes unmanageable.
Quote from: Father Ted on February 09, 2016, 04:26:37 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on February 09, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Read some books on real life small unit tactics. Playing the game properly and not as some RTS is where it really shines and its one of very few where some semblance of real life tactics actually work.
As some one on their forums once said - play it like you were there.
This is very true - but it is only one half of the equation. Like with any game, you have to learn how it abstracts the real world into the virtual one. You may know that you want to order an experienced scout team to sneak up to a gap in the bocage and report back what they see without drawing attention to themselves (all do-able in the game), but you'll need to RTFM in order to know how to do so. There are no real short-cuts to this, although the game ships with some tutorial missions IIRC. Anyhow, finding out how to play is not really that scary.
One bit of general advice that I might give is to not treat the game as something to "win" at - it's more of a way to experience the problems faced by the commanders of the time.
This is SO true of the game. Treat it as an experience. To me its not about winning or losing with this game but about the journey.
The Armchair General videos are a great way to introduce yourself to the game - you will learn what and what not to do. Unfortunately you will probably have to unlearn any bad habits picked up from the BA series! In general, and in addition to the advice already given, I would recommend taking your time and advancing with parts of your force in short stages, leaving parts stationary on overwatch. Combined arms, spotting and keeping your units in command will make your life easier. It is a game of learning by doing, no short cuts around that.
I'm a Wego-holic. No other way. The Armchair vids are the best tactics videos out there. I'd also recommend starting on the easiest difficulity level to start and don't rush your advances. The most losses I've had are because I get in too big a hurry. The scenarios will usually continue past the turn limits if opposing forces are still close to each other so you don't have an arbitrary time limit to win by really. This game plays differently depending on which theater you're in. What works in Normandy doesn't in Italy and I've never figured-out how to play well as Russia. I just can't force myself to throw my little troops in to the meat-grinder to gain a win. A truly great game, but frustrating at times.
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 09, 2016, 04:46:30 PMI'd also recommend starting on the easiest difficulity level to start and don't rush your advances. The most losses I've had are because I get in too big a hurry.
This right here. +1 Hurrying will only get you dead really quick. But if the enemy has artillery, don't stay in one place too long.
The Deuce is correct and I should've thought to include that in my post. If you play as the Germans, get ready to have American arty follow you where ever go unless you, "Hide" when not moving.
I haven't played CM in years, but I played a fair bit back in the day and I've got one big tip: STUDY THE TERRAIN before the battle. There was a very close relationship between how well I did in battles vs how much time I spent studying the terrain. On the attack, plan not just for where you are going to go, but how you are going to get there. Try to move behind the lips of ridges and come over the top only when you are ready for the assault. On the defensive, set ambushes for when the other side comes over the top of a rise. And never group up in the open.
Good things have said already, but I do want to stress one point: RTFM! O0 Please do. It's required reading material for these games.
The wealth of different units available it pretty big too, so it'll take a while to appreciate the nuances between different weapon or config loadouts on otherwise similar units.
The tutorials should be played several times while you take your time getting to know what different orders do and how units interact with terrain and objects.
The 1:1 scale of LOS calculation, but abstraction to some fire/damage calculations sometimes make for some weird situations. You need to get used to that. The forums are a great place to ask.
Another tip is to just load a map in the mission editor and place some units there you want to test. And play around with them. This lets you learn lots about what a unit can and cannot do.
Don't rush! Not in a scenario, but not in learning the game either! It just takes time and plenty of playtime.
I prefer WEGO too.
Seriously, thank you all! O0
Don't be too afraid of it. My ww2 tactical background before CM was limited to Company of Heroes and Men of War so I was pretty far off but I think I did decently after watching this great tutorial:
If you watch that carefully you don't maybe even need to RTFM. ;) One lesson I soon learnt playing CM was that never lead with your tanks. One well positioned and hidden Pak can wreck your whole Sherman platoon in a turn or two.
When you start playing CM a likely side effect is that whenever you're cruising or walking around the countryside you're pondering where you would setup your MG or AT team or what would be the best avenue of approach...
Don't be afraid to play an email game against a human. The pace is slower than when you sit down and play out a battle by yourself, so you can spend a little more time thinking about what you want to do and you may pick up some tips by watching what another person does. And, as others have said, winning or losing is pretty far down my list of goals when playing. Doing something clever during battle or having someone do something clever against you are a lot more fun, to me, that winning a battle......Probably why I lose so many more battles than I win. :)
Quote from: Tinkershuffle on February 10, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
Don't be too afraid of it. My ww2 tactical background before CM was limited to Company of Heroes and Men of War so I was pretty far off but I think I did decently after watching this great tutorial:
If you watch that carefully you don't maybe even need to RTFM. ;) One lesson I soon learnt playing CM was that never lead with you tanks. One well positioned and hidden Pak can wreck your whole Sherman platoon in a turn or two.
When you start playing CM a likely side effect is that whenever you're cruising or walking around the countryside you're pondering where you would setup your MG or AT team or what would be the best avenue of approach...
+1
that's the 'only' vid you would need to get started! ...everything else is
just peanuts also important! make sure to play WEGO
NOT RTS!!
cheers!
chem!
+1 to what Elvis said about giving play against a human a try. You'll learn a lot that way and the pace is great for studying and planning. Also much agreement about taking your time, move your troops unobserved as much as possible, and learn to sue combined arms.
These really are just wonderful games. They really aren't that complicated to learn the basics of, and there's no shame in losing - a lot - particularly at first. If you don't think of it as an RTS and rage quit when you make a mistake and take casualties, you'll start coming up to speed in no time.
I prefer RT because of stupid tactical AI that needs babysitting. It somehow improved along the way. WEGO is now ok.
I can honestly recommend Jeffrey Paulding's brilliant CM2 101 series of YouTube videos as some of the best introductions to the game, and the tactics needed to win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6dDlqye9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHm6FDh1738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI4MNt-BtBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgFnIW3VtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFc6ge53jZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvoKNVDNtVI
My one regret is that I can't find any more videos done by Jeffrey Paulding on CMx2! :(
A premier site for combat mission battlefield techniques from the expert Bil Hardenberger - http://battledrill.blogspot.ca/2013/08/tactical-skills-001-key-tactical.html (http://battledrill.blogspot.ca/2013/08/tactical-skills-001-key-tactical.html)
Perhaps a little advanced and overwhelming at first blush but rewarding nonetheless. Some great AARs there also if you don't frequent the BFC forums.
I think the fact that there are so many resources out there to learn how to play this game is indicative of the high regard with which it is held.
Like I said before, I think the time you invest to learn this game will pay off with many hours/years of enjoyable gameplay.
I can't give you any tips, though. I completely suck at it. ::)
Quote from: Zonso on February 11, 2016, 03:31:45 PM
A premier site for combat mission battlefield techniques from the expert Bil Hardenberger - http://battledrill.blogspot.ca/2013/08/tactical-skills-001-key-tactical.html (http://battledrill.blogspot.ca/2013/08/tactical-skills-001-key-tactical.html)
Perhaps a little advanced and overwhelming at first blush but rewarding nonetheless. Some great AARs there also if you don't frequent the BFC forums.
I've seen it too. Zonso is good to mention this one. Quality stuff.
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/121367-cm-final-blitzkrieg-allied-defense-beta-battle-report/
BilH gets a lesson.
Quote from: Redirected on February 12, 2016, 02:20:27 PM
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/121367-cm-final-blitzkrieg-allied-defense-beta-battle-report/
BilH gets a lesson.
Did he finally lose one? Wow.
Quote from: Elvis on February 12, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: Redirected on February 12, 2016, 02:20:27 PM
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/121367-cm-final-blitzkrieg-allied-defense-beta-battle-report/ (http://community.battlefront.com/topic/121367-cm-final-blitzkrieg-allied-defense-beta-battle-report/)
BilH gets a lesson.
Did he finally lose one? Wow.
Holy cow. Is that not a sign of the Apocalypse or something?