This was going to be a day 1 purchase for me, but the launch trailer is so offensive and off-putting, I'm going to pass. Its totally generic. There is nothing about it that says USMC. No Battle Hymn, no Eagle, globe and anchor, the narrator refers to Marines as "soldiers" at :30 and most offensive of all, the mispronunciation of Semper Fi...instead, they say, "Semper Fee!" at :48.
Garbage.
Ugh. That's bad.
Wow! I wasn't even a Marine and I find that incredibly offensive. I've always admired the USMC (with the possible exception of JH :2funny:) and was really looking forward to this particular DLC but Matrix/Slitherine has lost, at least, two sales.
Well, that's the first time I've seen the USMC described as a "faction". It's clear who their intended audience is and they're not grogs.
I was also surprised by the pronunciation of fi/fee. And I agree, a Marine is not a soldier, but their target demographic is unlikely to know that either.
Robert Leckie would be sad. :(
Chesty Puller would be kicking someone's ass.
R. Lee Ermey will do it for him.
Excellent.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/67744712.jpg)
^perfect!
Agree with all the previous comments - Gus summed it up well.
And now I must watch Full Metal Jacket again. At least the first half.
Damn good film.
Seems like they pronounce it the same as the race hustlin, perpetually offended sjw bigot Melissa Harris-Perry.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/368905/harris-perry-misprounces-marines-semper-fi-motto-andrew-johnson
You all know this professional victim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4MemWayPcA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjwlbMjuPUQ
Doesn't surprise me. Not after Obama changed Corpsman to Corpse-Man.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 07, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
This was going to be a day 1 purchase for me, but the launch trailer is so offensive and off-putting, I'm going to pass. Its totally generic. There is nothing about it that says USMC. No Battle Hymn, no Eagle, globe and anchor, the narrator refers to Marines as "soldiers" at :30 and most offensive of all, the mispronunciation of Semper Fi...instead, they say, "Semper Fee!" at :48.
Garbage.
Haha, makes me want it! :coolsmiley:
But a slip up would not deter me if I enjoyed that system. At least they are tackling and covering our Marines. My grandfather was in the 1st during the war and is still with us today.
Yeah, it's US Marines! I'm having a hard time not buying.
The Marines were depicted in the original game. Perhaps they have a campaign tailored to the Marines, would be interested to know.
From the Matrix site,
'Order of Battle: U.S Marines is the second expansion of the franchise and it includes a campaign with 11 brand new scenarios against the Imperial Japanese troops. You'll fight, amongst others, the historical battles of Guadalcanal and Tarawa. In these savage landscape enemies adapt their strategy from ruthless assaults to deep and well-prepared defensive systems.
Fight with the new U.S. Marines faction, deploy many new units on the battlefield and employ the new support fire ability for Heavy Infantry.
Onwards to victory! Semper fidelis'
Moreb, you're right. We're talking about the Corps here and ignorant mistakes made by a non U.S. developer are not a good reason to pass it up. As annoyed as I am, I've decided to pick it up (I really need another game... right?).
By the way, please convey my thanks to your grandfather. What years did he serve?
I am wondering if this new campaign is on rails...
Quote from: Millipede on April 07, 2016, 07:05:16 PM
Moreb, you're right. We're talking about the Corps here and ignorant mistakes made by a non U.S. developer are not a good reason to pass it up. As annoyed as I am, I've decided to pick it up (I really need another game... right?).
By the way, please convey my thanks to your grandfather. What years did he serve?
I should know but I don't. I do know he was at Guadalcanal and fought to wars end. He never talked about it. Ever. The only time he spoke of his experiences were to my uncle right before he shipped off to Vietnam. My uncle joined the Marines because he said he was afraid that he would be drafted into the Army and left the country of Vietnam the same day I was born, aug 18th 1969. He use to joke saying we were both born that day. My uncle would talk about his experiences to us kids when he was drinking but I could tell it bothered him then and if we asked too much my mother, looking back, would put an end to it. I was never interested in ww2 stuff until about 15 years ago and my knowledge of the Pacific is very limited. My cousins served in Desert Storm and their children served in Afghanistan and again in Iraq, all in the Marines. I'm not real close to that side of the family so I don't know much details but it seems the wars have fallen on my family through the generations.
My grandfather told me many years ago that his father was in the Kaisers army before ww1 but won some small German lottery and took the proceeds and went awol, heading to America. I assume that story was true.
Quote from: Millipede on April 07, 2016, 07:05:16 PM
Moreb, you're right. We're talking about the Corps here and ignorant mistakes made by a non U.S. developer are not a good reason to pass it up.
I dunno...If we're talking about a game that is supposed to be about the Corps, but nothing in the game is actually about the Corps, largely due to ignorant mistakes, how can that not be a good reason to pass it up?
Anyway, do tell us if it is any good, otherwise.
More than half the video shows nothing but title cards. If they're scared to show the actual game, isn't that usually a pretty good indicator that it isn't any good?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 07, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
No Battle Hymn, no Eagle, globe and anchor
Wouldn't it be worse if Matrix *was* using those sacred symbols, to flog a mediocre game on the Internet?
I don't know, would the Corps have to give permission for the use of those symbols?
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on April 07, 2016, 09:33:26 PM
More than half the video shows nothing but title cards. If they're scared to show the actual game, isn't that usually a pretty good indicator that it isn't any good?
Well, since it is an expansion the assumption is that people have played the base game.
Also, there is a Twitch tonight that showed someone playing the game.
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on April 07, 2016, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 07, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
No Battle Hymn, no Eagle, globe and anchor
Wouldn't it be worse if Matrix *was* using those sacred symbols, to flog a mediocre game on the Internet?
I don't know, would the Corps have to give permission for the use of those symbols?
No. If the symbols are used accurately and respectfully, I don't see any issue.
Yes. The marine corps has a trademark licensing department that reviews requests for non-official use. Have you seen some of the crap they've approved in the past?
http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/divpa/Units/MarineCorpsTrademarkLicensingProgram/FAQ.aspx (http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/divpa/Units/MarineCorpsTrademarkLicensingProgram/FAQ.aspx)
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 08, 2016, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
As in "Fee,
fie, foe, fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman".
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 07, 2016, 08:59:10 PM
I dunno...If we're talking about a game that is supposed to be about the Corps, but nothing in the game is actually about the Corps, largely due to ignorant mistakes, how can that not be a good reason to pass it up?
Anyway, do tell us if it is any good, otherwise.
I'm slow and methodical so it's taken me awhile to form an opinion. I'm enjoying it but we all have different tastes. As far as differences in re the Corps are concerned... I haven't discovered everything but some items are: Less disruption from amphibious landings, stronger than Japanese army units but similar to Japanese Marines and some new units... Brewster Buffalo (why would you want one?), Seabees (not as good as the in game Army Engineers but less expensive - 8 Seabees for the cost of 3 engineers) - Marine Raiders (quick and sneaky) - Marine Scouts (quick in any terrain) - Amphibious vehicles (LVT's and DUWK's). That's all I've found so far.
Quote from: Gusington on April 07, 2016, 07:09:12 PM
I am wondering if this new campaign is on rails...
Yep, it's still the same engine. As far as I can tell, the enemy unit count and type is the same every time you start a scenario but there is some variation in starting position and, if you screw up, they'll definitely painfully instruct you not to do whatever you did again. In the campaign, you have to start with the Tulagi landing in the Solomon's and once you complete that you progress to Guadalcanal, complete that and on to the next etc. If you don't complete all the primary and secondary objectives in a scenario, it will effect the difficulty of the following scenarios. For example, if you don't eliminate all of the opposition, they can show up later.
Quote from: Philippe on April 08, 2016, 08:13:30 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 08, 2016, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
As in "Fee, fie, foe, fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman".
The Greek letter "phi" may be pronounced as "fee" but here, "Fi" is short for Fidelis...so they are messing it up
Quote from: mikeck on April 09, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: Philippe on April 08, 2016, 08:13:30 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 08, 2016, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
As in "Fee, fie, foe, fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman".
The Greek letter "phi" may be pronounced as "fee" but here, "Fi" is short for Fidelis...so they are messing it up
What's Greek got to do with it ?
I've been playing it some. Engine is the same as Order of Battle Pacific and Morning Sun. I've been enjoying it, but have not figured how to best use the units.
Still on rails...thanks Airboy/Millipede.
Quote from: Philippe on April 09, 2016, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: mikeck on April 09, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: Philippe on April 08, 2016, 08:13:30 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 08, 2016, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
As in "Fee, fie, foe, fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman".
The Greek letter "phi" may be pronounced as "fee" but here, "Fi" is short for Fidelis...so they are messing it up
What's Greek got to do with it ?
Because the narrator is pronouncing it like the Greek letter Phi. Can't think of any other reason you would say "fee". Someone mentioned that was the correct pronunciation of FI and I was simply pointing out that no, I think that's the correct pronunciation of the Greek letter Phi but FI is short for fidelis. Just trying to come up with a reason why he would pronounce it that way
Quote from: mikeck on April 10, 2016, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: Philippe on April 09, 2016, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: mikeck on April 09, 2016, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: Philippe on April 08, 2016, 08:13:30 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 08, 2016, 07:38:05 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on April 07, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
Jarhead, maybe his pronunciation of the Marine Corps motto was just invoking the correct ancient Latin pronunciation?
???
Yeah, that was my thought too and probably the case -- still doesn't excuse the gaffe in the promo though -- anyone who knows anything about the USMC knows their motto is pronounced like JH says, with "Fi" having a long "I" sound.
As in "Fee, fie, foe, fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman".
The Greek letter "phi" may be pronounced as "fee" but here, "Fi" is short for Fidelis...so they are messing it up
What's Greek got to do with it ?
Because the narrator is pronouncing it like the Greek letter Phi. Can't think of any other reason you would say "fee". Someone mentioned that was the correct pronunciation of FI and I was simply pointing out that no, I think that's the correct pronunciation of the Greek letter Phi but FI is short for fidelis. Just trying to come up with a reason why he would pronounce it that way
Jarhead's comment was essentially correct.
I think what we're dealing with is someone who knows a bit about pronouncing Latin, but hasn't a clue as to how it gets mangled in American argot.
I've played 2 of the 11 scenarios. It is pretty much as I expected. Very focused on infantry and amphibious landings. Relatively small maps with relatively static, dug in opponents. The Japanese counter-attacks on Guadalcanal were in waves and relatively easily countered. Bloody - but not strategically or tactically difficult.
So far, this is not a battle of maneuver. You must protect your flanks and grind down your opponents.
All in all, pretty realistic of the Marines in the island-hopping campaigns.
[Don't take any of this as negative on the Marine Corps. The Pacific was very bloody infantry combat. The US fortunately had air superiority after Guadalcanal and had more armor.]
Yeah. My comment about knowledge of Latin was very much tongue-in-cheek. I probably should have used the winking icon instead!
Pronouncing it "Semper Fee" is akin to pronouncing the battle as "Eye-woe Jeye-ma".
Pardon for the slight hijacking here- the campaign is being described as "on rails". Can someone more clearly define that? In addition, what would be the preferred way to handle campaigns in games like this?
Quote from: Swatter on April 10, 2016, 11:41:33 PM
Pardon for the slight hijacking here- the campaign is being described as "on rails". Can someone more clearly define that? In addition, what would be the preferred way to handle campaigns in games like this?
Only one path? Only one way to win?
Quote from: Swatter on April 10, 2016, 11:41:33 PM
Pardon for the slight hijacking here- the campaign is being described as "on rails". Can someone more clearly define that? In addition, what would be the preferred way to handle campaigns in games like this?
I think the issue is that the campaign is highly scripted. Enemies always appear when the player reaches a certain point on the map, or a certain objective is approached or captured, etc.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 11, 2016, 05:33:13 AM
Quote from: Swatter on April 10, 2016, 11:41:33 PM
Pardon for the slight hijacking here- the campaign is being described as "on rails". Can someone more clearly define that? In addition, what would be the preferred way to handle campaigns in games like this?
I think the issue is that the campaign is highly scripted. Enemies always appear when the player reaches a certain point on the map, or a certain objective is approached or captured, etc.
The campaign for the original game was highly scripted and I also found that the game relied heavily on having the AI seriously outnumber the player as a means to be challenging. It's a technique to challenge players, but I always find that killing wave after wave of AI is rather boring and exactly opposite - not a challenge at all - rather a task.
It's really a shame because the game looks beautiful for a turn based strategy game.
Yeah that's what I meant by 'in rails'...only one way to win. Agreed that it is a shame too because it is a very good looking game.
I've completed the first three scenarios. It is fun. I've replayed one scenario and the placement of bunkers, units, and the AIs reaction differed. In most scenarios the Marines are outnumbered, but the Japanese do not concentrate their forces.