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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/%e2%80%98we-were-soldiers%e2%80%99-legend%e2%80%99s-record-under-review-for-unearned-awards-report-says/ar-BBt9WR7?ocid=spartanntp

QuoteThe late Command Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley, a legend in the U.S. Army and famously depicted by the actor Sam Elliott in the Vietnam War movie "We Were Soldiers," is under review by Army officials for having worn unauthorized combat and valor awards, according to a report on Military.com.

Plumley died of cancer in 2012, but Brian Siddall, an independent researcher who has devoted years of his life researching Plumley's service records and the exploits of other service members in World War II, uncovered discrepancies between Plumley's official documents and widely reported accounts of his service.

In the 1992 book "We Were Soldiers Once ... and Young," co-written by Joe Galloway and retired Lt. Gen Hal Moore and on which the movie is based, Plumley is a central character and is introduced as a soldier who had made four combat jumps in World War II as well as a combat jump in the Korean War. According to Siddall, service records indicate that Plumely served as a scout in a glider unit and participated in two glider assaults during World War II and never deployed to Korea.

"When I spoke with him in July of 2011 he never claimed to have jumped out of an airplane in combat in WWII or any other wars. He did talk briefly about that he jumped out of helicopters but never an airplane in wartime," Siddall wrote on his website last year.

Siddall also maintains that Plumley often wore what amounted to two Silver Stars and one Bronze Star medal, although he earned just one Silver Star in Vietnam. Plumley also wore unauthorized additional Combat Infantry Badges, Siddall said. All three awards — the Silver Star, the Bronze Star for valor and the Combat Infantry Badge — are coveted decorations that demonstrate valor and outstanding conduct in battle and it is perplexing that– already having earned some of the awards — Plumley would wear additional medals that he did not rate.

Undoubtedly, Plumley distinguished himself as a proven combat leader in one of the first major engagements of the Vietnam War: the Battle of Ia Drang. During the battle in November 1965 — depicted in Galloway and Moore's book — Plumley earned the Silver Star f0r defending a helicopter landing zone on the cusp of being overrun by North Vietnamese forces.

"I just want the correct information out there because there are so many people that are really heroes, and it is so frustrating when they give the hero status to someone who was anything but," Siddall told Military.com.

A part of Siddall's research, which was given to Military.com, is a 2015 Army memo indicating that the service was "unable to verify" some of Plumley's supposed awards.

In light of the findings, according to the Military.com report, Army officials at Fort Benning in Georgia are looking into correcting Plumley's headstone, as it bears the wrong number and type of awards.

Col. Andy Hilmes, the garrison commander for Fort Benning, acknowledged that there are discrepancies between the headstone and Plumely's official records.

"I want to do the right thing," he told Military.com "I have looked at how do we go about changing the headstone."

In an email to Military.com, Galloway responded to Siddall's research and the accusation that Plumely had inflated aspects of his service.

"I don't know a thing about Mr. Siddall and his research that slanders a fine old soldier who died four years ago and can't speak for himself," Galloway wrote. "My co-author Lt. Gen. Hal Moore vouched for CSM Plumley when we were working on the books. I read the Plumley biography when Moore and Plumley received the Doughboy Award quite a few years ago. It sure looked official to me and matched details I had been told about his service. I have no interest in commenting on this any further."

Seems to be a "too little, too late," sort of thing if the fellow is already dead, doesn't it?

Those kind of exploits (that Plumley, et al accomplished in wartime) were the bread and butter of the NCO academy books and go to illustrate just how serious and important the non-com's job can be; editing his story now just doesn't feel right to me, I guess.

It sounds like his awards are on his tombstone though, and wanting to correct that is the bigger issue now. 

Here is a photo of the headstone furnished by the VA:


Since the inscriptions of the decorations on the headstone are determined by the awards noted on an individual's DD 214 or its equivalent, if said awards are bogus then the information provided would have had to have been falsified.

No Purple Hearts?!

Yeah - but a doctored 214 wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, right? 

I say that as an E6 type as I could guess that a CSM / upper enlisted fellow is operating in a totally different atmosphere than what I'm used to.  Perhaps it would be easier to fake the funk up at that range.

this one would bother me a lot more

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=65778

Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 18, 2016, 08:57:05 AM
this one would bother me a lot more

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=65778

To her credit, she didn't claim to be a PJ, EOD, or any of the other "exciting," Air Force AFSCs.  Small credit, mind you.

The kid wearing uniform boots with his Class As, a MSgt rank and practically all the ribbons and such he could fit on his chest has to be the most amusing attempt I've seen on the internet so far.
i.e. http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=24149 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=24149).   :o

yeah, TAH has plenty of good stolen valor chuckles.

Quote from: Dammit Carl! on May 18, 2016, 08:53:35 AM
Yeah - but a doctored 214 wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, right? 

I say that as an E6 type as I could guess that a CSM / upper enlisted fellow is operating in a totally different atmosphere than what I'm used to.  Perhaps it would be easier to fake the funk up at that range.

A faked DD 214 hadn't entered my mind, but I suppose that is a possibility. I didn't know CSM Plumley but I was thinking along the lines of him having someone add his name to a set or sets of orders for various decorations, but I wasn't an army clerk so I don't know how plausible that might have been.

Would someone please explain to me how TAH was able to access someone's DD 214? That is confidential information that the VA will not release AFAIK. I mention this because I have been trying without success to get a copy of my 1st cousin's DD 214 (all his family are dead and he didn't have any children) in order to get a VA marker for his grave but the VA refuses my request.

You can file a copy of your DD214 with you county clerk, at which point it's public record.

Not certain if this answers your question, but in NC, we have the ability to register our DD 214s with the county Register of Deeds - access to them is limited as they probably aren't online and there are some other hoops to jump through for privacy's sake.

Also, not certain if the VA would be the people to talk to in your case as you are dealing with a health care organization (privacy of records and all of that) at the end of the day.  Maybe a different track to take would be querying the branch of service your cousin was in.

So why was Siddall devoting so many years of his life independently researching records of these folks?  What is his angle / how does he profit by this?  Seems fishy to me.

I understand that someone can record a copy of their DD 214 with their county clerk; I have done so myself. However, if someone's DD 214 is not a public record, it is confidential information and the VA--or any other government agency AFAIK--will not release the information on someone's DD 214, unless the veteran is deceased and then the information on his / her DD 214 is provided to the next of kin.

Quote from: Greybriar on May 18, 2016, 10:03:49 AMWould someone please explain to me how TAH was able to access someone's DD 214?

FOIA.  They remove address / SSN, but the record of service is public.

Quote from: Greybriar on May 18, 2016, 10:47:11 AM
I understand that someone can record a copy of their DD 214 with their county clerk; I have done so myself. However, if someone's DD 214 is not a public record, it is confidential information and the VA--or any other government agency AFAIK--will not release the information on someone's DD 214, unless the veteran is deceased and then the information on his / her DD 214 is provided to the next of kin.

Gotcha.  Sorry if I sounded unintentionally glib with my answer on my end.

Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 18, 2016, 11:08:14 AM

Quote from: Greybriar on May 18, 2016, 10:03:49 AMWould someone please explain to me how TAH was able to access someone's DD 214?

FOIA.  They remove address / SSN, but the record of service is public.

Thanks for the information. O0

Quote from: Dammit Carl! on May 18, 2016, 11:11:36 AM

Quote from: Greybriar on May 18, 2016, 10:47:11 AM
I understand that someone can record a copy of their DD 214 with their county clerk; I have done so myself. However, if someone's DD 214 is not a public record, it is confidential information and the VA--or any other government agency AFAIK--will not release the information on someone's DD 214, unless the veteran is deceased and then the information on his / her DD 214 is provided to the next of kin.

Gotcha.  Sorry if I sounded unintentionally glib with my answer on my end.

Not at all. Thanks for your sincerity.

This actually seems to be a very common occurrence. In most cases involving service members on active duty or reserve status, I find it mystifying. Many of them have quite distinguished careers so the wearing of unauthorized badges, devices, ribbons or medals makes no sense. I can only assume it stems from either a sense of entitlement, laziness, or simple mistake.

I'm currently defending a Navy Corpsman with 16 years of meritorious service in an Article 134 proceeding. He was caught wearing unearned rank and a dive badge in photographs taken at a wedding that were posted on facebook.  His explanation for wearing the rank is plausible, but the wearing of the dive badge was just a stupid error in judgment. Now the future of his career is on the line.  Totally not worth it.

One detail of the article strikes me as odd; the bit about the wearing the Combat Infantryman's Badge incorrectly. Given what the article claims about his service in WWII, he clearly earned the decoration, so he couldn't have worn it incorrectly. Prior to the Iraq war, the award was given out on a blanket unit basis, i.e., if you were an infantryman in an infantry unit that saw combat, then you got the award. Early on in the Iraq war the rules were tightened so that you had to provide evidence that you individually were under fire and did your job. All that to say that the bit about the CIB cast some doubt on the whole accusation for me.

Speaking of which, the new rules for CIBs actually got relatively asinine. I earned mine in a pretty serious close ambush in which one of my soldiers was badly wounded by an RPG, but when we sent up the sworn statements they came back with questions like "how close were the rounds striking to 2LT R." After about the third submission we sent up something to the effect of "everyone on the battlefield was shooting at 2LT R." That seemed to do the trick.

Quote from: Airborne Rifles on May 18, 2016, 12:10:51 PM
One detail of the article strikes me as odd; the bit about the wearing the Combat Infantryman's Badge incorrectly. Given what the article claims about his service in WWII, he clearly earned the decoration, so he couldn't have worn it incorrectly. Prior to the Iraq war, the award was given out on a blanket unit basis, i.e., if you were an infantryman in an infantry unit that saw combat, then you got the award....

I don't know how far back the practice of awarding the Combat Infantryman's Badge on a blanket unit basis goes, but that was not how it was awarded when I was in the Army in 1967-1969. During my term of service the Combat Infantryman's Badge was given on an individual basis. I especially remember this because I failed to receive my orders for a Combat Infantryman's Badge and my company commander in my stateside duty station had to send a letter to my old unit in Vietnam to get my orders for one. That was in 1969.

More recently a guy in my unit asked me to submit a statement to the VA to help him substantiate a claim because he had not received orders for his Combat Infantryman's Badge. Such cases may have been why they are now awarded on a blanket unit basis. But I just wanted to point out that it wasn't always that way.

Thanks Greybriar, I was going off of what Gulf War vets and people who served during the early months of OEF/OIF had told me about how it was. Seems there was at least a period between your service in Vietnam and mine in Iraq where it was easier to come by.