As part of my concern about the "computer wargame winter" that I think we are in I would like to hear people's thoughts about Maxtrix games' current practices.
There are a number of way in which they, especially since Slitherine took over, make it a bit too painful (or amateurish) for me to get excited about their games. In fact I can't even find what are suitable games in there.
In no particular order here are some of my concerns:
- Ancient, unsuitable and messy forum software both on Matrixgames.com and wargamer.com. (taking over wargamer.com and then not making it a performing forum property was a bad move IMHO)
- Just large and large lists of game splattered around with no guidance what kind of game is what
- Traditional style licensing with no copy protection to speak of but randomly anchoring serial numbers in the windows registry. This is bad style in 2016, I have many computers that I randomly use and I want the full collection of my games to be available where I happen to sit right now. Not a problem if you use steam or any of the MMORPGs, or simpler games where you can just copy the file tree. With Matrix' licensing stream you can't do that, you have to go through the installer to pick up a couple of registry entries that contribute nothing to the running game. It can also get in the way of using these games in emulators. I generally don't like to use Windows even for gaming anymore and many games run fine in Wine.
- Very little feedback about what the developers of games are up to. I understand that part of Matrix' business model is that development roadmaps are not enforced on developer partners. Fine. QA... well most of Matrix games work fine. However, it is very hard to follow what is a currently ongoing development effort.
- Now combine these two points: (1) little enforcement of development done and (2) little information on who develops what. I can't make head or tails out of that messy game listing with > 100 titles.
- There really needs to be a stronger identify for games classified by what kind of game they are and who makes them. When developers changes then I presume they give up on all games so you can carry that line of thought over.
- As an example, I am trying to find out what the developers of "Airborne Assault" are up to and what the latest stages of their game line is (Conquest of the Aegean etc). Not a chance to do that on Matrix' forum or website.
- Last but not least the forums add additional suckage from tech support. There's some dude sitting in England closing tickets as WAI no matter how ridiculous. I reported the CAPCHA for forum login (which other forums don't feel they need in the first place, they only have CAPCHAs for registration) not working on Chrome. Dude over there cannot be bothered to even try.
Does that resonate with somebody?
I think this mess is not suitable for trying to do large scale game business in the year 2016. I want to spend money and throw my hands up in the air instead.
Hi I am a newcomer to war games. What do you mean by "war game winter"? Was there a period when war games were much more in abundance or something?
Red wolf, probably 90% of what you're describing goes back to a coherent corporate communication strategy.
Very few companies do it well.
Many do it quite poorly.
Quote from: veb_yw on May 26, 2016, 08:37:03 AM
Hi I am a newcomer to war games. What do you mean by "war game winter"? Was there a period when war games were much more in abundance or something?
I was wondering the same thing....what does redwolf mean by 'war game winter'....? Personally, I think we are in a war game golden age. Too many good titles for me to 1) afford and 2) have the time to learn and play. Could the Matrix site be better? Sure, but I'm glad they're around and publishing some excellent, hardcore war games.
Take note that matrix is a publisher and not a developer. They have signed up many independent developers to make a diverse set of games. I know they usually only announce things when in beta or close to release so the general public don't know what they are up to. I guess they're playing it safe not to hype something up unless a game is near completion.
Also Matrix may have slowed down a bit. A lot of activity is in the Slitherine side. And many just cross posted in Matrix. They could have just pulled the plug?
Regarding ancient copy protection, you can install them on any number of machines so what's the problem?
As with others, I don't see this as a wargame winter. We've had a lot of releases and even updates on old engines are happening again. Be that as it may.
I think Redwolf is complaining about Matrixlitherine not being on something like Steam, with something like cross-platform Steam access. Except they are: all new properties either release on Steam or move there in a few months, and they are steadily migrating older titles to Steam so far as they can figure out how to make the system architecture work together (plus legal issues for intellectual properties, which can get a bit snafuy, WW1Gold being an extreme example affected also by their desire not to compete with themselves on a big new release.)
Generally I have found their forums to be informational from their various developers, largely (though not entirely) proportionate to the popularity of their games. That included Panther Games (per the example), but since Panther Games has moved on to another publisher and is directly competing with their prior releases, it shouldn't be entirely surprising if their presence on the Matrix boards has been somewhat curtailed, much less that Matrix isn't promoting what they're currently working on. Still, the product pages for ordering projects do include links (maybe dead now in some cases for older devs) to developer sites.
I've never personally had any problem searching for game genres on the Matrix site, although the Slithersite seems kind of thin on that sort of content. But maybe I haven't used it enough to compare search functions properly. I admittedly always go to the Matrix site, unless I absolutely have to go to Slitherine (for making sure my games are registered and to get my Steam codes for items I bought directly before).
If this is winter it has been made glorious summer by these sons of York ( Marix/Slitherine).
I see as many wargames coming out as there were in the Commodore's heyday.
I've got more wargames than I have time to play. If this is winter, it's only because I'm snowed under 8)
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 26, 2016, 12:04:42 PM
I've got more wargames than I have time to play. If this is winter, it's only because I'm snowed under 8)
Ditto. I'm buried.
Quote from: mirth on May 26, 2016, 12:09:05 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 26, 2016, 12:04:42 PM
I've got more wargames than I have time to play. If this is winter, it's only because I'm snowed under 8)
Ditto. I'm buried.
Yeah, but you live in Maine, so....duh!
We have a lovely 2 weeks of summer!
Quote from: mirth on May 26, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
We have a lovely 2 weeks of summer!
Just enough for a tan!
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 26, 2016, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 26, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
We have a lovely 2 weeks of summer!
Just enough for a tan!
Just enough so we don't all look like White Walkers.
Quote from: Redwolf on May 26, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
- As an example, I am trying to find out what the developers of "Airborne Assault" are up to and what the latest stages of their game line is (Conquest of the Aegean etc). Not a chance to do that on Matrix' forum or website.
Actually, Panther Games (the developers of the airborne assault series) (http://www.panthergames.com/2013/12/about-us.html#.V0eOsGNllBw) has moved on to another publisher, Lock N Load (https://store.lnlpublishing.com). Their games are now collected under the Command Ops 2 (https://store.lnlpublishing.com/index.php?route=product/manufacturer/info&manufacturer_id=13) title.
Quote from: Staggerwing on May 26, 2016, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on May 26, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
- As an example, I am trying to find out what the developers of "Airborne Assault" are up to and what the latest stages of their game line is (Conquest of the Aegean etc). Not a chance to do that on Matrix' forum or website.
Actually, Panther Games (the developers of the airborne assault series) (http://www.panthergames.com/2013/12/about-us.html#.V0eOsGNllBw) has moved on to another publisher, Lock N Load (https://store.lnlpublishing.com). Their games are now collected under the Command Ops 2 (https://store.lnlpublishing.com/index.php?route=product/manufacturer/info&manufacturer_id=13) title.
Matrix has some nerve not posting updates about that on their website!
Don't they now!
Quote from: magnus on May 26, 2016, 11:33:30 AM
If this is winter it has been made glorious summer by these sons of York ( Marix/Slitherine).
I see as many wargames coming out as there were in the Commodore's heyday.
Well, I think there are a bazillion of those hex igoyugo games coming that are very transparent and have simple rules based on boardgames.
When I'm talking of winter I am thinking WEGO games, 3D games, tactical games. No hexes.
CMx1 got replaced by CMx2 which I have difficulty getting into. Maybe another 10 years to acclimate?
TacOps is mostly dead (updateless) and I don't see new games that have multiple players per side, with an umpire. This loss is bad.
There is Panzer Command but PzC is one of the reasons why I am not so happy. Had to change programmers, technically it is only in some ways ahead of the 1999 release of CMx2, in 2016. Hard to get updates on updates.
Toaw. OK, but another igoyugo hex games, although a pretty modernized one. There is a TOAW4 coming but it'll have the same things that bug me about the old one including the naive licensing scheme.
Look at Flashpoint Campaigns. WEGO but has hexes.
I think all of the points from the original post, could have been made about Matrix games 10 years ago....and I still buy their games.
My sense is that I like the final product, but (as I think Redwolf alludes) the communication could be better. And I find their website painful to navigate/use.
I'm not sure I agree with the "winter of wargaming" comment, but to each their own. I agree with most of his other comments in the OP, though. I guess the phrase "grognard marketing genius" isn't a common one for a number of good reasons! ;D
Quote from: Redwolf on May 26, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
*snip!*
- Last but not least the forums add additional suckage from tech support. There's some dude sitting in England closing tickets as WAI no matter how ridiculous. I reported the CAPCHA for forum login (which other forums don't feel they need in the first place, they only have CAPCHAs for registration) not working on Chrome. Dude over there cannot be bothered to even try.
Does that resonate with somebody?
I think this mess is not suitable for trying to do large scale game business in the year 2016. I want to spend money and throw my hands up in the air instead.
look mum - no capcha!!! http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/login.asp
(on some browsers you'll need to keep another forum-tab open...)
cheers!
Quote from: jomni on May 26, 2016, 10:15:31 PM
Look at Flashpoint Campaigns. WEGO but has hexes.
Agreed. Quite a good game!
Sure the site is old, a number of games likely priced too high especially when no longer supported...but the only thing that really bothers me is the use of two different forums for their games.
But none of that stops me from buying games if I want them....
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 27, 2016, 05:29:15 AM
Sure the site is old, a number of games likely priced too high especially when no longer supported...but the only thing that really bothers me is the use of two different forums for their games.
But none of that stops me from buying games if I want them....
Sums my feelings precisely!
I love Matrix Games , I do agree with the idea that some of their older/no longer supported games are priced too high but if you are not an impulse buyer they do go on sale making it less painful. I have no issue at all with their CD/ID scheme---> I prefer it.
I give props to Erik & their customer service when you have an issue and figure it's worth the premium I pay if I really am excited about one of their games but I generally believe they are priced a little high across the board.
That said, I don't buy a lot of games and only purchase the ones I plan on playing for a long time so I do receive bang for my buck discounting the occasional game that doesn't resonate with me.
Matrix has the right to charge high prices because the game avenue there on is narrow with less customers, I think slith are watering down the hard-core wargame types of games like WiF WitPAE AOW3 etc... with games that are simple in complexity, but I'm getting brain burn with complex games and only can stand learning one every so often, so slith games then become more desirable , the two types of game work well as long as we still get complex games like with a matrix of hexagons.
I also like the serial key system, my only complaint is I used to play Matrix games on my Mac with XP installed, but now the installers from matrix wont run on it, they used to run, and older games I have still do.
I have to still wait for suitable hex based games to come out, you cant just wakeup and say to yourself I want a hex wargame , then goto matrix and buy one if you have your choice games already its a winter like that, more hex old sxkool games need to be made, the genius of wargames like Star Fleet Battles. of ASL and games like that need to be computerised, when I get the old boardgames out its hard to find computer games that are as good, so yes its winter but only because gamers have left boardgames and are expecting games on the computer, watch this link and wish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofloTPYoc7g
Well, I've been playing wargames since the early 80s... so I guess the winter of a dearth of true wargames without hexes has been going on for 30+ years now? :-\
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 27, 2016, 12:09:39 PM
Well, I've been playing wargames since the early 80s... so I guess the winter of a dearth of true wargames without hexes has been going on for 30+ years now? :-\
sadly I believe you :) I think one day there will be a revival like fashion . Ive not chatted to many young wargamers. Star fleet battles is my current choice and I keep getting reminded of the engineering that went into the system.
I don't have a problem with high prices charged for games with small audience.
I don't think it can work any other way if you want significant progress in development paid for. If the audience is small that's it. Matrix and BFC charge prices that are OK, in BFC's case I would probably charge higher. Steel Beasts has their high price very well established. Both from an acceptance standpoint and from a financing standpoint. People got over it.
Matrix also has sales and even participates in Steam (and Steam sales?) which make senses for all products that have little per-item manufacturing overhead.
I want to thank people for pointing that out. Whatever problems I might see with Slitherine's game acquirement and maintenance model, their sales model is reasonable. The major problem being crappy website, forums, unknown wargamer.com status etc.
Quote from: chemkid on May 27, 2016, 02:59:23 AM
look mum - no capcha!!!
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/login.asp
(on some browsers you'll need to keep another forum-tab open...)
cheers!
OK, this must be recent. Maybe the idea that captcha for every login isn't a good tradeoff hit home, or maybe they did accept the fact that the old captcha didn't work on all browsers.
Thanks for pointing this out.
This is the default login page...its what you get when you hit the login page.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/loginflat.asp
How did you find that link?
Quote from: RyanE on May 27, 2016, 03:23:43 PM
How did you find that link?
If he told you, he'd have to kill you.
I've wrote twice in this thread and cancelled the post twice....
...and this is my third...sorry.
I have really strong views on this - I absolutely loved being at Matrix - but I expect my views would open a HUGE can of worms that I just don't want to have to clean up.
I agree with almost all points raised and I have very specific reasons for feeling that way!
Quote from: Redwolf on May 27, 2016, 01:46:10 PM
unknown wargamer.com status etc.
Who needs wargamer when you have grogheads?
Quote from: jomni on May 27, 2016, 05:39:29 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on May 27, 2016, 01:46:10 PM
unknown wargamer.com status etc.
Who needs wargamer when you have grogheads?
Get that man a beer!
Quote from: jomni on May 27, 2016, 05:39:29 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on May 27, 2016, 01:46:10 PM
unknown wargamer.com status etc.
Who needs wargamer when you have grogheads?
X Infinity----!
This site has tons more content and the community is much more vibrant, IMHO.
I'm mostly a lurker but read almost daily.
Glad you like us, BigBlueFleet! Lurkers and posters with thousands plus and everything in between make this place great. Thanks for being a part O0
Quote from: BigBlueFleet on May 28, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: jomni on May 27, 2016, 05:39:29 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on May 27, 2016, 01:46:10 PM
unknown wargamer.com status etc.
Who needs wargamer when you have grogheads?
X Infinity----!
This site has tons more content and the community is much more vibrant, IMHO.
I'm mostly a lurker but read almost daily.
O0