When I think of a game manual, I remember fondly the thick paper ones that came with the MicroProse games. But it seems manuals like those are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Since the manuals for most games nowadays are in .pdf format, gamers that don't want to Alt + Tab in and out of a game to read the manual don't have many options--either print out the manual or buy an eBook Reader. The manual for Civilization V (http://www.civilization5.com/#/community/feature_manual) is 320 pages long, so the former option would require a lot of ink. And that is why I am considering buying an eBook Reader.
But which one? A basic reader that could display .pdf game manuals and the included images (graphs, charts, etc.) would suffice. I would like to have one that is easy on the eyes...and the bank account.
Any suggestions?
Color or eInk (black and white)?
Color, since most game manuals I've seen lately contain color images. Black and white could suffice, but I'd really like to be able to see the manual as it was intended to be viewed.
Kindle Fire and the Nook Color both read PDF. Although the tablet market is starting to field a number of newer lower cost products, I'd most likely go with one of those with strong leaning towared the Fire if the iPad is out of your price range.
Quote from: Bison on June 02, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Kindle Fire and the Nook Color both read PDF. Although the tablet market is starting to field a number of newer lower cost products, I'd most likely go with one of those with strong leaning towared the Fire if the iPad is out of your price range.
You may want to wait until the large screen Kindle comes out. Reading PDFs on a 7inch screen can still be an eyestrain. Having said that, an iPad is a great investment if you also want to free yourself up from lugging a laptop around and the iPad2 is still available for about $399 which is less than some of the 'premium' Android tablets out there. Regardless of which you choose I do recommend a bluetooth keyboard if you do a lot of typing. these can be had quite cheap as well. I bought my mother a cover/keyboard combo for about $15 for Mother's day.
Quote from: Bison on June 02, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Kindle Fire and the Nook Color both read PDF. Although the tablet market is starting to field a number of newer lower cost products, I'd most likely go with one of those with strong leaning towared the Fire if the iPad is out of your price range.
I agree with Bison. I have an iPad, a regular Kindle and the wife has a Kindle Fire. The eInk Kindles, while great for regular books, are terrible for books with color or pictures. The Fire is much better in that regard although the screen is a little small.
The iPad is the best, IMHO, for PDF manuals, but I would not use it as a general e-reader because the back lighting creates too much eyestrain and it is a bit too heavy for constant reading. Of course you can do all sorts of other great things with the iPad (all sorts of boardgame ports).
I've managed just fine with a basic Kindle eInk reader, for the most part.
There are two issues that can be annoying sometimes:
1) When game creators make a single page of their pdf manual a wide 2-pager. This may be easier to print and spine-staple together, but when you view those on an e-reader with a small screen, it's compressed way too small to see. So you have to use the Zoom features on the e-reader which can be a pain if the manual has only one single column of text per page. In that case you must jockey the view left-to-right & back constantly. Which breaks your focus.
So this one's chalked up to the publisher's manual layout.
2) When there is too much graphical 'fluff' in manual backgrounds, especially on the larger manuals, it can bog down my E-reader. You know the kind - the ones with more artistic swirls and crap in the background than actual reading. >:( This can cause it long delays in processing every page-over and even cause it to freeze & reboot to the main menu if your battery charge isn't near maximum (for a few of the worst offenders). This may be less of a problem on a Kindle Fire since it is color and therefore probably doesn't have to do as much processing-intense conversion.
Hrmm.. well that's also something related to the manual layout. I wish more of them would do a printer/E-reader friendly version, like Matrix often does with it's manuals.
The text being difficult to see often isn't a problem as there's a Contrast setting I can raise on the ones with lighter text or blended into the background art.
iPad is really good for PDFs.
GoodReader is a fantastic App for PDFs. Much better than any PC based PDF applications. Here is just one example ... You can configure it to crop (either same or left and right pages separate) for individual manuals. So, if you have a manual with lots of white space due to design or the scan, you can easily eliminate all of that.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/goodreader-for-ipad/id363448914?mt=8
I am throwing out all my printed PDFs (not shipping to Taiwan) and will just use my iPad in the future.
The other advantage of the iPad is the number of pretty decent games that are availible and being produced for it.
I recently acquired an ipad with bluetooth keyboard and couldn't be happier. I have used it mostly for reading books and keeping my game walkthroughs by my side when I'm not using the ipad at work.
There is no substitute imho. The great thing about my ipad is that I can use it to remotely control my work laptop thus enabling me to work from anywhere.
What did you select for remote control?
I chose Jump to Desktop. I was actually using it to interact with my laptop for a few weeks from 13,000 miles away. It worked real well. But then, it was an old laptop which was also at a native resolution of 1024x768.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jump-desktop-remote-desktop/id364876095?mt=8
^Citrix receiver. Our company has a custom download version of Citrix in the app store with all the security bells and whistles built in. You can however get Citrix receiver for yourself. The great thing about it is it allows you to run Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. on my ipad.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/citrix-receiver-for-ipad/id363501921?mt=8
Thanks for your input, everyone. But all I really want is an electronic gadget that will read .pdf files (including images) as well as common text files. I would like it to have some way to input the data, probably a DVD drive or at least a USB port. I would prefer not to have to rely on a battery--I'd rather plug it in. Another consideration is the screen size--7 inches seems too small. I don't need a product with a lot of bells and whistles I most likely would never use. I could afford to spend several hundred dollars or more on such an electronic reader, but if I'm going to spend that much, I might as well just buy a laptop.
Thanks for your help.
You could look at the android tablets too GB. There are some larger screens and they are pretty reasonably priced. I think it really matters what you are looking for in a convience factor. A tablet would sit nice on your desk and be much more easily managed while gaming on your rig. The battery issue is sort of moot, because you can use them plugged in with a cord or usb or on battery power. They act like a flash drive drag and drop files onto the tablet.
Quote from: Greybriar on June 03, 2012, 10:41:02 PM
Thanks for your input, everyone. But all I really want is an electronic gadget that will read .pdf files (including images) as well as common text files. I would like it to have some way to input the data, probably a DVD drive or at least a USB port. I would prefer not to have to rely on a battery--I'd rather plug it in. Another consideration is the screen size--7 inches seems too small. I don't need a product with a lot of bells and whistles I most likely would never use. I could afford to spend several hundred dollars or more on such an electronic reader, but if I'm going to spend that much, I might as well just buy a laptop.
Thanks for your help.
My very basic 'ole Kindle is a measly $79. It can read PDFs and text files just fine. It also uses a USB cord to both charge & transfer files from your computer.
The screen size isn't a problem for me unless a PDF was set to have two pages side-by-side showing at once (for supposedly easier printing of a manual with small dimensions). In this case I have to use the Zoom feature because those types of small manuals are fitted to the screen by default so they end up being tiny. When having to zoom on those, there's just more clicking the view around. I suppose the $99 Kindle Touch would be less of a pain to navigate if you can just slide the screen around by touch instead of using the buttons on the basic model.
I've not really needed color or anything for it; the E-ink still displays pictures just fine but when there's a lot it slows down the processing between page flips or movement. Most noticeable on manuals with a bunch of artistic crap all over it, in the background of the pages. The battery lasts a surprisingly long time (the E-ink setup must not use a lot of power 8) ). But as I said, it charges through a USB's 5v so you still plug it in.
I'm glad I have one to read all these damn PDF manuals, and User Guide/Tips text docs. I hate sitting at the PC and
reading manuals or books for long periods of time. It's something I do in bed before passing out, and this has been a godsend for my addiction to reading game manuals. :P
Yeah tablets are becoming necessary as manuals become PDF exclusive. I have a laptop, but would never set it up next to my desktop just to read manuals. Plus I like to do my reading away from my computer.
I have a regular old Kindel - about two years old. It is marginal for reading pdf game manuals.
The big problem is print size, not graphics. With regular e-books, the Kindel enables you to change the print size. Unfortunately, with pdfs my Kindel does not allow me to increase print size.
So if the pdf has small print - Kindel becomes more difficult. Unless ipad allows you to adjust pdf size, it has the same basic problem but the screen is larger so it is not as acute.
I think this is the crux of the one page vs. two page pdf pages. If you generalize it really gets down to an inability to enlarge pdfs in a Kindel. Perhaps later generation Kindels address this problem - I would not know.
I just pulled up a .pdf on my Kindle Fire to see what it does.
The color display is great. No issues. Pages are easily zoomed in and out of. Pages turn, but go right to left as if you're turning a book; not up and down as on a PC display.
The only issue I saw was that they hyperlinks within the document don't work. So, for instance, trying to turn to the appendix on page 193, I can't click on the table of contents.
However, the Kindle has a page slider that quickly zipped to page 193 without issue.
I realize that paying $200 for only the .pdf function isn't a win. But piled on top of its other uses, I have to say it handles .pdfs fine. I emailed my .pdf to myself in order to get it as it was a game manual that installed with Battles from the Bulge. Given the size of the Kindle Fire, it's a great accompaniment to playing the game on my laptop and being accessible as a supplement.
Yes, the thing about general devices (does not apply to original non-Android Kindle) ... you end up doing things with it that you never even thought you would. In the end, it pays for itself.
So, I cannot imagine buying an iPad or Kindle Fire and not ending up using it for a lot more than PDFs.
The iPad is the greatest kid travel entertainment device ever invented.
Quote from: MarkShot on June 04, 2012, 02:58:13 PM
Yes, the thing about general devices (does not apply to original non-Android Kindle) ... you end up doing things with it that you never even thought you would. In the end, it pays for itself.
My kids are just old enough not to need an iPad for amusement - they use their iPhones.
QuoteSo, I cannot imagine buying an iPad or Kindle Fire and not ending up using it for a lot more than PDFs.
Agreed. Best platform for reading in bed in the dark and not waking OKW. Set the background to black with white letters and I'm good to go.
Quote from: Bison on June 04, 2012, 02:59:18 PM
The iPad is the greatest kid travel entertainment device ever invented.
What do mean kids!!! It does wonders for adults on a 36 hour trip to China from the East Coast. I surfed (in the airport lounges), read news/finance, played chess, did email, read novels, shot pool ... and this may be hard to believe, but I even put on some head phones and did some Real Racing 2 HD while everyone was sleeping after dinner service. (The one thing I didn't have with me was videos, but now I have about 30 hours of videos stored waiting for the inevitable Summer storm power outage; about 10 hours of TED lectures and 20 hours of Taiwanese soaps to practice my Mandarin.)
Quote from: MarkShot on June 04, 2012, 03:21:32 PM
Quote from: Bison on June 04, 2012, 02:59:18 PM
The iPad is the greatest kid travel entertainment device ever invented.
What do mean kids!!! It does wonders for adults on a 36 hour trip to China from the East Coast. I surfed (in the airport lounges), read news/finance, played chess, did email, read novels, shot pool ... and this may be hard to believe, but I even put on some head phones and did some Real Racing 2 HD while everyone was sleeping after dinner service. (The one thing I didn't have with me was videos, but now I have about 30 hours of videos stored waiting for the inevitable Summer storm power outage; about 10 hours of TED lectures and 20 hours of Taiwanese soaps to practice my Mandarin.)
You just need to get Battlefronts Combat Mission touch and you are all set!
Quote from: LongBlade on June 04, 2012, 02:35:06 PM. I emailed my .pdf to myself in order to get it as it was a game manual that installed with Battles from the Bulge.
LB, you should see if there is an Android app for Dropbox. You just drop the pdf in the Dropbox folder on your desktop and it synchronizes across all your devices with a Dropbox app. the iOS app even has a built in PDF reader so maybe the Android app has one too. Dropbox.com
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 04, 2012, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on June 04, 2012, 02:35:06 PM. I emailed my .pdf to myself in order to get it as it was a game manual that installed with Battles from the Bulge.
LB, you should see if there is an Android app for Dropbox. You just drop the pdf in the Dropbox folder on your desktop and it synchronizes across all your devices with a Dropbox app. the iOS app even has a built in PDF reader so maybe the Android app has one too. Dropbox.com
Good suggestion, but I just email myself. I'm usually not far from my laptop - which has most of my stuff.
Did you email the PDF just to transfer it or to get it converted AZW (native Kindle format)? I remember that Amazon offered this as a service via WhisperNet.
DropBox is great for keeping files sync'ed between devices. I was using it between my PC (desktop trading) and the iPad. I could access my positions on the iPad (as a backup to the PC). However, think of being able to trade on the iPad as being able to issue combat orders with no idea of what the battle plan was/is. Since the entire plan (charts, XLS, text strategy) was formulated on the PC. Thus, DropBox would replicate this to the iPad from the cloud. So, if ever I was forced to use the iPad to place orders, I knew exactly what the game plan was. It worked pretty seamlessly.
The one short coming with DropBox was that all synced files must appear under the DropBox root folder. You cannot just identify folders like having a sync property similar to Windows sharing.
Quote from: MarkShot on June 04, 2012, 04:11:53 PM
Did you email the PDF just to transfer it or to get it converted AZW (native Kindle format)? I remember that Amazon offered this as a service via WhisperNet.
I emailed the .pdf directly. To my knowledge nothing was converted.
There is an option to send a pdf to Amazon to have it converted into the Kindle ebook format. It does cost a few bucks, but might be worth it if pages are an issue due to the pdf formating.
When you register Kindle, you get a Whispernet address. Anything you mail to that is converted and set to download to your Kindle. We never tried it.
Quote
Kindle Personal Documents Service
Fees for the Kindle Personal Documents Service via Whispernet are based on the size of the file submitted (before compression if you use a .zip file), your country, and where you're accessing Whispernet. Personal documents service fees will only be charged for documents that are successfully delivered to your Kindle device via Whispernet. Personal documents service fees are rounded up to the next whole MB and apply to each personal document delivered via Whispernet to each Kindle device.
For Kindle 2nd Generation users living in the United States, the Kindle Personal Documents Service fee via Whispernet is $ .15 per megabyte while inside the United States and $.99 per megabyte when traveling outside the United States.
For Kindle 2nd Generation users living outside the United States, the Kindle Personal Documents Service fee via Whispernet is $ .99 (USD) per megabyte.
Kindle Personal Documents Service is not available via Whispernet in Canada. Please see Transferring Personal Documents via USB for information about e-mailing personal documents to your computer for USB transfer to your Kindle device.
Note: You can also send your personal documents via e-mail as attachments to [name]@free.kindle.com. To have a document converted to Kindle format (.azw), the subject line should be "convert." Kindle Personal Documents Service will attempt to deliver your personal documents to the e-mail address associated with the Amazon account to which the device is registered. You can use the e-mail to download the file to your computer and transfer it to your Kindle device using a USB connection.
Detailed information on Kindle Personal Document service is available on our Kindle Personal Document Service help page.
Quote from: MarkShot on June 04, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
When you register Kindle, you get a Whispernet address. Anything you mail to that is converted and set to download to your Kindle. We never tried it.
I suppose I should RTFM then...
Quote from: MarkShot on June 04, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
When you register Kindle, you get a Whispernet address. Anything you mail to that is converted and set to download to your Kindle. We never tried it.
I don't think those convert PDFs, though. There is a size limit, too IIRC.
You can find free eBook converters on the net but as with Amazon's own converter you'll still get large spaces between words, or even between letters of words sometimes, and other such done to the text. I've still not found any that will convert the text perfectly most times. :-[
I use my Playbook to read .pdf docs and it doesn't work too bad. I'd really like to see a color version of the Kindle DX. E-ink is so much better for reading than a standard display. I almost bought one, but the 300+ price tag put me off!
Well, if for just text reading. E-ink is easier on the eyes than the tablets. It can also be used in bright sunlight; has less glare. Also, without using WiFi, you can probably get 40 hours out of a Kindle. You cannot do that with the iPad.
Quote from: MarkShot on June 05, 2012, 01:35:20 PM
Well, if for just text reading. E-ink is easier on the eyes than the tablets. It can also be used in bright sunlight; has less glare. Also, without using WiFi, you can probably get 40 hours out of a Kindle. You cannot do that with the iPad.
Yes, indeed.
I turn the wireless off on my Kindle, and it lasts quite a long time on a single charge.
I don't read constantly in my past-time (I'm obviously babbling in these forums & playing some games too) so I don't have to charge it but once every two weeks if I'm using it a couple hours a day. I was quite impressed with the charge span, and how little power the E-ink readers use.
The thing is that an e-ink page is stable without continuous input of power. Thus, it is very different model than a tablet with a backlit display, a graphics subsystem, and a CPU.
A Kindle can be brought out of sleep mode with an interrupt on a page turn event. Once the page is turned, it is back to sleep. After 10 minutes, it hibernates. It's an efficient design. A tablet doesn't beat it, but all the other things which an iPad does is just so incredibly seductive.
The following quote from Wikipedia:
Quote
Many of the technologies can hold static text and images indefinitely without using electricity, while allowing images to be changed later.
Quote from: MarkShot on June 05, 2012, 05:03:09 PM
A Kindle can be brought out of sleep mode with an interrupt on a page turn event. Once the page is turned, it is back to sleep. After 10 minutes, it hibernates. It's an efficient design. A tablet doesn't beat it, but all the other things which an iPad does is just so incredibly seductive.
Sure, you can do more with a tablet. The question is whether he needs anything that does so. From my understanding he just wanted an E-reader that does PDFs and DOCs at a decent price. *shrug*
But wasn't that the brilliance of Steve Jobs and Apple - creating a product that people didn't know they needed until they bought one? So, perhaps Greybriar will end up like that (and this thread may even subconsciously make him realize that he craves holding a cool light tablet in his hands) ... it's a slippery slope when you finally let go of hard copy materials.
I certainly agree with Mark on this one. Household 6 didn't like the iPad at first. Now I cannot get it away from her.
Quote from: Nefaro on June 05, 2012, 06:33:34 PM
Quote from: MarkShot on June 05, 2012, 05:03:09 PM
A Kindle can be brought out of sleep mode with an interrupt on a page turn event. Once the page is turned, it is back to sleep. After 10 minutes, it hibernates. It's an efficient design. A tablet doesn't beat it, but all the other things which an iPad does is just so incredibly seductive.
Sure, you can do more with a tablet. The question is whether he needs anything that does so. From my understanding he just wanted an E-reader that does PDFs and DOCs at a decent price. *shrug*
I want the same characteristics in an eBook Reader as I do in a printed paper manual--immediate access, legible print, and sharp color images. No bells, no whistles, no fluff. Just the basics to permit me to peruse a document's contents.
Thank you very much.
Color means a tablet. There are a bunch on the market and newegg has like 200 of them that they sell. Ranging from a little over a $100 to $1000+. They will all read a pdf so its a matter of picking your price point and thes size of screen. The bells and whistles with be there for all of them, but of course they don't need to be used. I'd recommend a larger than 7" screen for the simple fact that pdf is scaled to the screen, so the print tends to be smaller than ebook formatted titles. Franking I wish that publishers would make them ebook formatted too.
For example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858616009 about as basic as it comes.
I don't see anything that's as good as a simple paper manual. Screw 'em.
Quote from: Greybriar on June 09, 2012, 12:29:05 PM
I don't see anything that's as good as a simple paper manual. Screw 'em.
Well I guess you found your answer. Kinkos!
Quote from: Greybriar on June 09, 2012, 12:29:05 PM
I don't see anything that's as good as a simple paper manual. Screw 'em.
I admire your reasoning and logic Greybriar. You knew what you want and were unwilling to fall for the unnecessary bells and whistles.
I cannot say I agree. Tablets do a better job than paper: search, weight reduction, mark ups, portability, ... For example, Dangerous Waters' or COTA/BFTB's weight in at over 500+ pages for a single game. Of course, a lot of games only have 10 page flyers. So, paper's only advantages are: no charge cycle issues, more abuse tolerant, not a single point of failure, less likely to be stolen, ...
I think the real issue is cost especially if one already has their library on paper. The near term cost benefit favors continued use of paper. I did have mine until the last two weeks mainly on paper and had invested in a nice color laser printer a couple of years ago. However, I could not ship 2,000+ pages and a color laser 13,000 miles and call it cost effective. Also, already owning the iPad (for other reasons), tips the scale towards and electronic solution.
I am still shipping some game materials, but I would say perhaps only 10% the volume of what I could have shipped. (surface shipping goes by volume and not by weight)
Actually, given the use of the iPad for docs, I don't plan to replace my color laser in Taiwan. However, I plan to replace our color inkjet MFD. That will probably be sufficient for most printing tasks these days.
I have a HP all in one copier/scanner/printer which prints out about 5 pages a minute and that is more than enough for home use. Of course I'm not trying to print out 400 page manuals or anything. The other convience of a tablet when gaming is that you can search forums or watch youtube videos without having to alt-tab out of game.
When you start talking about printing out large manuals and color, a laserjet is much more cost effective than an inkjet on a per page cost. Also, a laser can be 100X faster ... mine was also networked with a duplexer (prints both sides). Goodbye nice printer ... Sigh.
---
With Firefox's DownloadHelper add-on, you can download/convert (to MP4) youtube videos like game tutorials. Then, you can put them on the iPad. I have a whole series of Ticket to Ride and Carcassonne tutorials on my iPad. So, it's not just manuals. (Forums - I definitely prefer a large monitor to the 10" screen.)
Yeah, a laserjet is more ideal if you're printing large stacks of paper, in the end. Although the initial price is notably steeper (same for toner cartridges), it'll do it better all around (and much longer).
A basic e-reader would be cheaper. A printed manual doesn't require the occasional recharge or jacking with settings on odd-sized print, though.
Quote from: Nefaro on June 10, 2012, 02:27:30 PM
Yeah, a laserjet is more ideal if you're printing large stacks of paper, in the end. Although the initial price is notably steeper (same for toner cartridges), it'll do it better all around (and much longer).
A basic e-reader would be cheaper. A printed manual doesn't require the occasional recharge or jacking with settings on odd-sized print, though.
I cannot thing of a single color eReader that has no frills. So I think if its just to read pdf and ignore the other features like internet browsing, you just pick size and price point. There's really not much more to it. I'm waiting to see if Kindle gets a larger size later this fall.
There is a strong likelihood that there will be two or three models of Android-based Kindles this fall, one of them at least an 8" display, though they may not use the 'Fire' name.
You'd think that Amazon would not want to give up the name recognition of "Fire".