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IRL (In Real Life) => Current Events => Topic started by: airboy on October 09, 2016, 10:28:26 AM

Title: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: airboy on October 09, 2016, 10:28:26 AM
Russia has moved Iskander-M missiles to Kalingrad - their Baltic enclave.  This is an intermediate range missile capable of carrying a nuke.  In addition, Russia has moved sizable forces in the area.  According to the Wall St. Journal yesterday Russia has enough troops to overrun the three Baltic states in about 18 hours.

This is chilling news that is not getting a lot of coverage compared to the Hurricane and Trump's crudeness.
 
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: besilarius on October 09, 2016, 10:53:29 AM
Sounds like a page out of unca Joe Stalin's playbook.
Wait til the western democracies are tied up in their own affairs, and then take over the insignificant, boutgeosie states at hand.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 09, 2016, 11:03:30 AM
This is an interesting and thoughtful piece on the subject

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/13/can-nato-defend-the-baltics/ (http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/13/can-nato-defend-the-baltics/)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 09, 2016, 11:05:23 AM
This time the Russkis are a little tied up in their own affairs already.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: undercovergeek on October 09, 2016, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 09, 2016, 11:03:30 AM
This is an interesting and thoughtful piece on the subject

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/13/can-nato-defend-the-baltics/ (http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/13/can-nato-defend-the-baltics/)

surely the question is 'will nato defend the baltics?'
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 09, 2016, 04:40:49 PM
We better or it's the end of NATO.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: undercovergeek on October 09, 2016, 04:49:15 PM
ukraine grabs its popcorn
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 09, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
^Russia took it.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Airborne Rifles on October 09, 2016, 05:31:29 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
^Russia took it.

Ha!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: undercovergeek on October 09, 2016, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 09, 2016, 05:31:29 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
^Russia took it.

Ha!

+1  O0
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 09, 2016, 05:37:23 PM
Comrade Redenbacher's Popkorn!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 09, 2016, 07:32:26 PM
In Soviet Russia corn pops you...right in the Crimea.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 09, 2016, 07:41:29 PM
In Soviet Russia Korn pops you, for not meeting quota!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 09, 2016, 11:09:06 PM
In decadent America the Capitalists have Popcorn and Corn Pops. This is big waste. In Soviet Russia you get corn and KGB provides the pops.  :buck2:
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 10, 2016, 06:56:43 AM
Russia retaking the Baltics was talked about quite a bit a year ago in the Ukraine Conflict thread.  This RAND paper explains why NATO will not be able to protect them, even if they wanted to.  The question is, has anything been done in the last year to improve NATOs chances of successfully protecting the Baltics?

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1200/RR1253/RAND_RR1253.pdf
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: JasonPratt on October 10, 2016, 12:08:00 PM
Granted, I'm not pivvy to secret troop and asset movements, but my impression is that NATO has no hope of protecting the Baltics. At best we might be able to take them back eventually. The trick will be doing so without igniting nuclear strikes and escalating from there.

I'm not overly convinced anyone will stand against Putin's nuclear threats, including the US. It might be a case of, "You ingrates don't want us here and people all over the world have been whining about Western Civ being so oppressive and junk; so here, have some fun with real oppression for a while. Call us when you get tired of it, maybe we'll do something but don't count on it."  :(
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Airborne Rifles on October 10, 2016, 09:14:01 PM
Actually by next spring there is going to be enough combat power in each of the Baltic states to repel a Russian Brigade sized attack into each of the three countries. I think the US, UK, and Canada are each supplying a battalion.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: W8taminute on October 10, 2016, 09:34:20 PM
Well Nato has been stationing troops in Poland and the Baltic States during the past year.  Could this just be Russia's response as a show of force?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 10, 2016, 10:54:30 PM
didnt we parade a platoon of Strykers around the area.   ::)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: JasonPratt on October 12, 2016, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 10, 2016, 09:14:01 PM
Actually by next spring there is going to be enough combat power in each of the Baltic states to repel a Russian Brigade sized attack into each of the three countries. I think the US, UK, and Canada are each supplying a battalion.

...I can't decide if that's humorous or real or both.  O0
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 12, 2016, 09:54:23 AM
One item the RAND paper pointed out, is the lack of a US Corps HQ in Europe.  Is that being corrected?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: pawelj on October 14, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
There were warnings at the time of Russian aggression on Georgia, that if the West does nothing it will get worse. It is getting worse, but there is still time. NATO air support to for the Ukraine would do the trick.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 14, 2016, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: pawelj on October 14, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
NATO air support to for the Ukraine would do the trick.

Don't hold your breath on that.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: pawelj on October 18, 2016, 03:50:22 AM
Quote from: mirth on October 14, 2016, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: pawelj on October 14, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
NATO air support to for the Ukraine would do the trick.

Don't hold your breath on that.

I don't, but that would be one way among so many counter moves US/NATO could do. All it takes is a bit of competence in the WH. Not holding my breath on that either.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on October 18, 2016, 05:47:55 AM
Well, she may not say it much out loud but supposedly HRC is a lot more likely to get confrontational with Russia than Obama is/was. There appears to be some bad blood between her and Putin. There would appear to be more to his attempts to get Trump elected than just regular Russian meddling. A bit of desperation, perhaps?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
I'm not sure if I have posted this before but isn't the US meddling with Ukraine/Russia a lot like Russia trying to stop Texas from seceding?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 05:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
I'm not sure if I have posted this before but isn't the US meddling with Ukraine/Russia a lot like Russia trying to stop Texas from seceding?

Maybe if we gave Texas it's independence for 20 years and then decided to take it back.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 05:28:00 PM
It doesn't really seem like we have much business in Ukraine at all...it's been in the Russian sphere for what...1000 years? What's two decades between enemies?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 05:36:52 PM
By that reasoning, the Allies should have kept quiet while the Germans and Russians carved up Poland in 41. Or why bother supporting Israel? That isn't our historical sphere of influence either.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 06:54:35 PM
Both of those examples include ethnic conflict that isn't a part of the current situation. Ukraine has a lot more connections to Russia and Poland and Austria and Germany than to the US. I understand that we are the world's policeman, but I am not convinced we have any stake in Ukraine. Historically, geographically, etc., the Russians do. What effect would it have on us if the Russians pulled out of Ukraine entirely, or if they annexed it like Crimea? Would it be any worse than the 'line in the sand' of using chemical weapons in Syria?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 06:56:45 PM
BTW the Russians and Germans carved up Poland in '39...and for months the West was quiet...the phoney war. US didn't enter the war until directly attacked by Japan in 41. Come on now, John Belushi...
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 07:08:07 PM
Yeah. I know. But tell the Ukranians about ethnic issues. Uncle Joe and the commies did a pretty good number on the Ukrainians in the 20s-30s. And where should we be drawing the line?  The Baltics? Poland? Do we say too bad to actual NATO member states? You're in the Russian sphere of influence..do syvdania.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 07:12:40 PM
I'm not sure exactly where the line is but Ukraine isn't it. I understand the idea of just not accepting their shenanigans from the get-go but I am questioning how valid we are. There's already hot wars going on that could lead to serious run-in with Russia (Syria), do we really need it in Ukraine too?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 07:14:34 PM
Actual NATO member states is key here too, I think. Defend NATO members, of course, or NATO sinks altogether.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 07:18:24 PM
I think we could do more to help Ukraine, short of 'getting into it'.

And we have no business dicking around in Syria. Let the CIA handle it. It's a proxy fight and a no-win scenario.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 07:21:51 PM
 But...BUT...the humanity will in Syria!! I do agree Syria is a giant shit sandwich. Ukraine is a much smaller one. Also - I think there are hawt women in both.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 07:23:49 PM
I fully support the defense of hawt women.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 18, 2016, 07:56:18 PM
didn't we cover all this over a year ago?
http://grogheads.com/?podcast=the-grogcast-episode-7
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 08:04:20 PM
You keep out of this! :P
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 18, 2016, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 18, 2016, 07:56:18 PM
didn't we cover all this over a year ago?
http://grogheads.com/?podcast=the-grogcast-episode-7

You expect any of us to remember that far back   ::)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 09:15:14 PM
Pfft really.

Anyway hawt Mediterranean women vs. hawt a Eastern European women...discuss.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on October 18, 2016, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 09:15:14 PM
Pfft really.

Anyway hawt Mediterranean women vs. hawt a Eastern European women...discuss.

There's just that certain something about a woman with a Slavic accent and black ops training...
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 10:10:05 PM
Every woman I've ever been involved with has had Black Ops training. Or at least, Dark Arts training.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 18, 2016, 10:21:33 PM
I believe the Ukraine doesn't want the US to fight the Russians for them. I think they want to be able to fight for themselves if need be and for us to help them with at least decent arms. Afghanistan wasn't our sphere either and we helped them plenty when Dutch Reagan was Prez. and didn't get into a shooting war with Russia then. And all hawt women should have Black Ops. training. Especially if they're involved with Mirth.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 18, 2016, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 18, 2016, 10:21:33 PM
And all hawt women should have Black Ops. training. Especially if they're involved with Mirth.

QFT
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on October 19, 2016, 01:10:58 PM
Stefan Molyneux has a pretty good breakdown of recent events.  The beginning of his clip is a bit disjointed but once he starts discussing the current US presidential nominees and the Russian POV, it gets interesting (at least it did for me.)

Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 06:29:07 PM
cant watch 44 minutes.
what are the cliff notes? 
do we win?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 19, 2016, 06:35:58 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 06:29:07 PM
cant watch 44 minutes.
what are the cliff notes? 
do we win?

We do win, but you're still pussy whipped.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 07:03:31 PM
I'm having chicken and shrimp alfredo over pasta with roasted corn tonight.
how do your tears taste?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 07:04:41 PM
your bitter ones, not your male prostitute ones.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 19, 2016, 07:36:44 PM
You used to be cool. Now you're just Azz.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 08:19:27 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 19, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
 ::) ::)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 19, 2016, 08:35:39 PM
Harsh.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 08:46:39 PM
I still get you in the divorce.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 19, 2016, 08:48:08 PM
I demand shared custody.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 19, 2016, 09:11:30 PM
as long as your Bar Mitzvahed and I teach you to shoot with Uncle Jarhead.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 19, 2016, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 19, 2016, 08:48:08 PM
I demand shared custody.

Smart move.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: pawelj on October 20, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
I'm not sure if I have posted this before but isn't the US meddling with Ukraine/Russia a lot like Russia trying to stop Texas from seceding?
There was no meddling.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: pawelj on October 20, 2016, 05:40:49 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 18, 2016, 07:12:40 PM
I'm not sure exactly where the line is but Ukraine isn't it. I understand the idea of just not accepting their shenanigans from the get-go but I am questioning how valid we are. There's already hot wars going on that could lead to serious run-in with Russia (Syria), do we really need it in Ukraine too?
I would say Ukraine is more important than Syria in confronting Russia. The thing is they do not really recognize anyone's independence apart from US and China. The rest are just "puppets". Giving up on Ukraine makes US look unreliable and unprincipled. Believe it or not these are very important attributes, which make US position in the world more respected and safer.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 20, 2016, 01:39:18 PM
There was definite meddling in elections by the US in Ukraine in 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 20, 2016, 02:09:51 PM
Obama's chickens come home to roost.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Nefaro on October 23, 2016, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 20, 2016, 01:39:18 PM
There was definite meddling in elections by the US in Ukraine in 2014.


Meddling?

The Russians were fixing elections in order to keep their own puppet as head of the Ukrainian gov't.  It doesn't get much more meddlesome than that.  It's what started the whole conflict, when the Ukrainians finally got fed up with the blatant Russkie meddling. 

I don't blame the Ukrainians one bit for tossing them out and telling the Russkies to go F themselves.  Perhaps I'm too much of a softie for the little guy attempting to throw off the yoke. 

We don't need to get very involved.. the Ukrainians want their actual independence and are willing to fight for it.  Good for them.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 05:27:07 PM
We support 'our guy' the same way the Russians support 'their guy' in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 05:29:57 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 05:27:07 PM
We support 'our guy' the same way the Russians support 'their guy' in Ukraine.

Not exactly the same. Unless we invaded.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 05:38:54 PM
Not exactly the same but not entirely different either.

I would much rather live under Murican influence and patronage, don't get me wrong. But we are involved in our fair share of shadiness too. We don't have our own little green men running around, but my point is we are not entirely clear innocent over in a part of Eastern Europe where Russia has been kicking around, better or worse, for centuries.

Also don't forget that I am partly Ukrainian and a bit biased towards the USA. I thank God every day that 100+ years ago my great grandparents got the hell out of there.

All that said...there are better fights to picking with the Russians right now.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 05:45:28 PM
Problem is we're not really picking an fights right now under the Appeaser-in-Chief.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 05:52:04 PM
We can agree there. Hugs all around.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 05:54:44 PM
Now we're talkin
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 05:58:52 PM
See - imagine the possibilities of a mirth/Gus ticket.

Chicken in every pot. Beer in every mug. And DDs in every c cup bra.

True prosperity!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 06:04:55 PM
Make America Horny Again!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 23, 2016, 06:33:38 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 23, 2016, 06:04:55 PM
Make America Horny Again!

Trump and Clinton are already there.  Bill that is, not Hillary.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 06:38:10 PM
If Hillary makes America horny, I welcome the Apocalypse.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 23, 2016, 06:45:23 PM
I think we're safe.  She hasn't been horny since, well, forever.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 23, 2016, 06:52:17 PM
She has been. But for the same type of DDs the in c cup bras that we are.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 23, 2016, 06:58:20 PM
She just hasn't met you yet Gus.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 07:47:54 PM
I need to vomit
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 23, 2016, 08:13:49 PM
Just wait until you picture them in matching pant suits
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 23, 2016, 08:35:13 PM
No.No.No.No!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 24, 2016, 11:20:11 AM
I think Trump would do better. Wherever the Russians want to go, Trump would get there ahead of them, buy the damned place, and turn it into a casino. The guests alone would scare the Russians away. Works for the Chinese too. Not so much for the Iranians though. They like to bet. They bet every day that Isreal won't wipe them off the face of the Earth.  :P
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 24, 2016, 08:44:03 PM
Pant suits look uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 24, 2016, 08:48:35 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 24, 2016, 08:44:03 PM
Pant suits look uncomfortable.

Explains a lot about Hilly then.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 24, 2016, 08:55:31 PM
Not quite enough.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 24, 2016, 09:17:18 PM
It's never enough with Hilly.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 24, 2016, 10:15:25 PM
They used to be Bill's until she took them away from him. He doesn't need pants anyway.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 25, 2016, 12:34:39 AM
Never used them when he had them anyways.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 25, 2016, 08:11:20 AM
Ever wonder why you only see him standing behind a waist-high lectern?  ^-^
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on October 27, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
Top half of this article talks about the Russians ships heading to Syria.  The bottom half talks about NATO beefing up forces in the Baltics and Eastern Europe.  It a WaPo article on MSN.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-warships-to-bypass-spanish-refueling-port-as-nato-pledges-to-bolster-its-defenses/ar-AAjrkqN?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

QuoteBRUSSELS — Russia canceled a request to refuel a flotilla of its Syria-bound warships at a Spanish port Wednesday, according to Russian state-run media and other news reports. The move came among mounting criticism leveled at Madrid from NATO's secretary general and Britain's defense minister.

The Russian battle group, containing cruisers, submarine hunting warships and Russia's lone aircraft carrier — the Admiral Kuznetsov — were set to refuel in Ceuta, a port situated in north Africa near the Strait of Gibraltar, before heading to the Mediterranean Sea. While Spain has allowed Russian ships to use its refueling facilities in the past, the small armada's likely mission — bolstering Russia's strikes in Syria — has drawn widespread condemnation, forcing Spain into an uncomfortable position with its allies.

"The Russian Embassy in Madrid has just informed us that it is withdrawing the request for permission for stopovers for these ships and these stopovers have therefore been canceled," the Spanish Foreign Ministry said after saying earlier Wednesday that it was reviewing the Russian refueling request according to a report in Reuters.

A spokesman from the Russian Embassy in Madrid confirmed the cancellation to the Associated Press but gave no further details.

Before Russia rescinded its decision to refuel in Ceuta, British Defense Secretary Michael Fallon told reporters in Brussels that the Britain "would be extremely concerned if a NATO member should consider assisting a Russian carrier group that might end up bombing Syria."

"On the contrary, NATO should be standing together," he added.

In recent weeks the Kuznetsov, along with its escort ships, steamed through the North Sea and into the English Channel, drawing a wary eye from European countries that increasingly see Russia as a threat to their security.

The eight-ship battle group, reported to be accompanied by submerged escort submarines, will probably be used to increase the Russian airstrikes in Syria, as Russian and Syrian government forces attempt to break the months-long siege of the city of Aleppo. The Kuznetsov, an aging Soviet-era aircraft-carrying missile cruiser, is set to provide a contingent of strike fighters that will join the already sizable Russian air force presence stationed in northeastern Syria.

"We are concerned about the possibility that the Kuznetsov carrier group can be used as a platform for more attacks against Aleppo and Syria, and thereby exacerbating the humanitarian catastrophe we already see in Aleppo and Syria," NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Wednesday before a defense ministerial at NATO headquarters.

As Russia flexes its military capabilities both in Europe's waterways and in the Middle East, NATO countries provided more details this week of their efforts to shore up a force designed to deter Russia. On Wednesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter outlined the type of units — including artillery and antitank weapons — that the United States is sending to reinforce NATO's eastern flank. The move, announced in February under what the Pentagon calls the European Reassurance Initiative, includes sending a Stryker brigade into the Baltic states and Poland until they are replaced by four NATO battalions in April.

"It's a major sign of the U.S. commitment to strengthening deterrence here," Carter said.

Fallon also announced that Britain would be sending Typhoon fighters to Romania to patrol the region atop earlier commitments to send tanks, drones and 800 ground troops to Estonia in the coming months. The British forces will be supported by French and Danish troops. The British troop contingent is one of NATO's four, 1,000-strong battalions that are to be led by the United States, Britain, Germany and Canada, and deployed throughout the Baltic states and Poland.

On Wednesday, Germany said its would send about 400 troops to Lithuania, supported by forces from Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Croatia and Luxembourg. Canada is also sending about 400 troops, although they are headed to Latvia along with more than 100 Italian troops. The four battalions are in addition to a 40,000-strong response force designed to counter cross-border incursions of the likes undertaken by Russia in Crimea in 2014.

Stoltenberg said the alliance's response is "proportioned" to Russia's military buildup and its activities along its borders.

"This month alone, Russia has deployed nuclear-capable Iskander missiles to Kaliningrad and suspended a weapons-grade plutonium agreement with the United States," Stoltenberg said.

The Iskander missiles are one more part of a growing arsenal stationed at Russia's naval base in Kaliningrad, which includes advanced surface-to-air missiles that could target aircraft flying well into nearby Lithuania and Poland.

"These moves do not lower tensions or restore predictability to our relations," he added.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Airborne Rifles on October 27, 2016, 07:52:27 AM
^ this is what I was referencing up thread. The idea is to have enough combat power in each of the Baltic states to defeat a Russian brigade-sized attack (1:3 numerical odds) in a defensive action.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 27, 2016, 09:16:00 AM
I guess Spain didn't have enough wood and coal to refuel the Russian ships.  ;D  Better break-out the sails Comrades.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 27, 2016, 11:02:13 AM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14718602_10154216144581715_8053281038931799702_n.jpg?oh=c5a5f47c6cb4030828e3ecb86637a1e0&oe=5889D5AD)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 27, 2016, 11:10:01 AM
Two Typhoons to Romania. Putin must be pissing his pants.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 27, 2016, 01:37:07 PM
Don't forget about the..... FOUR tanks sent to Estonia. Didn't say if any of them will be manned or just dropped-off somewhere.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: JasonPratt on October 27, 2016, 03:10:52 PM
Don't forget the handheld Desert Hawk drones!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 27, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
At least the Poles are well armed.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: bbmike on October 27, 2016, 07:19:20 PM
Nukes make all that stuff meaningless.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 27, 2016, 07:22:00 PM
If nukes start flying, we'll have bigger problems than keeping the Russkis out of the Baltics.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 27, 2016, 07:52:20 PM
I really don't believe anyone will use a nuke, regardless of the bluster from Russia.

Also didn't know the Russians had troops in Moldova...do the Moldovans have any troops in Moldova?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on October 27, 2016, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 27, 2016, 07:52:20 PM
I really don't believe anyone will use a nuke, regardless of the bluster from Russia.

Also didn't know the Russians had troops in Moldova...do the Moldovans have any troops in Moldova?

The Russians are in Transdniestria, which is a sort of Sudetenland. Of Russians.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 27, 2016, 09:08:07 PM
*rubs temples*
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 27, 2016, 09:51:34 PM
The Russians are in Moldavia in case Vigo the Carpathian comes back around again. Mirth will get this one.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 27, 2016, 09:53:44 PM
You reference the Sorrow of Moldavia.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on October 27, 2016, 10:51:47 PM
Also, Vigo the Butch.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 28, 2016, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 27, 2016, 10:51:47 PM
Also, Vigo the Butch.

Isn't that the name of Airboy's character in the Krynn game?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 28, 2016, 06:15:23 PM
Isn't it Moldova, without the 'i'
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on October 28, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Unless it's Moldavia, with the 'a'. It all comes down to how you pronounce the name of Prince Dragos' much lamented favorite hunting dog.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 28, 2016, 08:08:49 PM
Is there a Moldavia and a Moldova??
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on October 28, 2016, 08:15:36 PM
Not anymore. Yes.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia

Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 29, 2016, 12:59:09 PM
Very interesting, thanks 'Wing. I really want to take a trip to that part of the world when they aren't killing each other.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: JasonPratt on October 30, 2016, 10:39:50 AM
This is what Crusader Kings II is for.  O0 :))
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on October 30, 2016, 10:41:48 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 29, 2016, 12:59:09 PM
Very interesting, thanks 'Wing. I really want to take a trip to that part of the world when they aren't killing each other.

So never.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on October 30, 2016, 04:08:27 PM
If an undersized Jew can't be hopeful, who can?
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: JasonPratt on October 31, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
...I just had a vision of dwarves in a fantasy film talking with Jewish / Yiddish accents instead of German or Scotch.

Is Mel Brooks still alive? Seems like a mine to be mined there!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on November 01, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
Of course he is!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on December 01, 2016, 10:55:17 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/01/lithuanian-civilians-fearing-russian-attack-train-for-worst.html

QuoteVILNIUS, Lithuania –  Rasa Miskinyte spent last Saturday in a freezing forest near Lithuania's capital learning to gather water from a pond with a condom, to filter it through sand, charcoal and cloth, and to make her own stove from a beer can. She thought some basic survival skills would be helpful if Russian troops ever entered Vilnius and her family escaped into the woods.

"Russia is a very dangerous kind of neighbor," said Miskinyte, a 53-year-old film producer. "They are always aiming at us."

Across Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, fears are intensifying that Moscow, after displaying its military might in Georgia, Ukraine and now Syria, could have the Baltic states in its sights next. Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned he wouldn't hesitate to defend Russians wherever they live — words that feel like threats since significant numbers of ethnic Russians live in the Baltics.

Whether the danger is real or just bluster remains to be seen. But in Lithuania, a country that experienced a Russian occupation before, some people aren't waiting to find out.

Young Lithuanian civilians are learning counterinsurgency tactics on weekends. Others, like Miskinyte, have taken steps to protect themselves. The government, in response to pleas from a fearful public, has issued a preparation manual.

Rimvydas Matuzonis directs a project that teaches weekend guerrilla warfare courses. He explained the resolve to be ready by citing a popular saying in the forests of Dzukija, the southern region where his father grew up.

"Spring will come, the cuckoo will sing and we will pave our roads with the corpses of Russian soldiers," Matuzonis said.

To be sure, some in the Baltic states feel reassured by their NATO membership and aren't overly anxious about a pending Russian invasion. Others describe a dull anxiety that flares up only sometimes. But there are some who are truly afraid and already preparing for the worst.

When Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014, Miskinyte packed a bag with bread, salt and some essential items and planned to flee to a village where she has a house. She urged relatives to join her there, if the Russians came for Lithuania next.

"In the village you always survive," Miskinyte said. "There is land, there are vegetables. There is everything there."

The sense of vulnerability in much of Eastern Europe has been heightened by a feeling that the international order, which brought peace and economic growth after the collapse of the Soviet Union, is disintegrating. U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who has said he might not automatically defend the Baltic states, underlines the shift.

Exacerbating the dread lately is Moscow's move to build up troops and nuclear-capable missiles in Kaliningrad, a Russian region wedged between NATO members Lithuania and Poland.

Poland is creating a so-called Territorial Defense Force to train thousands of volunteers for the kind of low-intensity hybrid warfare seen in eastern Ukraine, including cyber warfare. Some of the new volunteers also will be assigned to protect Polish territory near Kaliningrad.

But the foreboding is no doubt greater in the ex-Soviet republics, whose decision to regain independence when the Soviet empire collapsed humiliated the Kremlin.

In response to calls for guidance from citizens fearing war, Lithuania's Defense Ministry issued a civilian manual that includes information on survival skills and recognizing Russian weaponry.

The best way to prevent war is to "demonstrate to the aggressor that we are ready to fight for our freedom, for every centimeter of our land," Defense Minister Juozas Olekas said.

"The capabilities, the readiness — this is the only way to stop Russian aggression in the region," Olekas said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Lithuania re-established a conscript army last year, but so many citizens have volunteered for military duty that a draft hasn't been necessary. Many civilians in the hugely patriotic nation of 3 million people also remain eager to do their part.

Last weekend, in an area of pine woods and fields outside Vilnius, a group of young men donned military fatigues, loaded pellets into replica assault rifles and practiced counterinsurgency tactics.

Using armored vehicles and other retired military equipment, they engaged in a mock battle, storming a position held by the enemy amid explosions and thick smoke.

Target practice with real weapons followed.

Many of the young civilians say military exercises have been a hobby for years, a way to get outdoors and release stress after a week in the office. But they also said they want to be ready to defend their homeland.

Their instructors from Defence Project, a warfare training group, make clear the drills have a new urgency given Russia's assertiveness.

"We have a border not only with Russia, but also with Belarus, and we should be aware that the little green men might appear from other borders or even from within," said Zilvinas Pastarnokas, a 45-year-old retired soldier who helped found Defence Project.

Matuzonis, the group's director, said the will to resist comes naturally for a people that suffered Russian occupation in the past. Partisan warfare against Soviet rule continued for several years after World War II.

Many of the lessons Lithuania's soldiers and civilians are learning now were handed down by post-war partisans, knowledge preserved by the military. Ukrainians fighting pro-Russian rebels have shared new tactics.

Fears of stewing Russia aggression have raised questions about the loyalties of the ethnic Russians who live in Lithuania and make up about 6 percent of the population.

Many settled there when Lithuania was part of the Soviet Union and remained.

Lithuanian officials insist they are full citizens like everyone else and aren't under any suspicion, and ethnic Russians say they have very good interactions with Lithuanians.

Yet many Lithuanians fear that if war ever came, ethnic Russians would side with Moscow.

"The Russians will absolutely be on Putin's side. A few are pro-Lithuanian, but not many," said Miskinyte, the film producer who took the survival course.

For their part, Lithuania's ethnic Russians decry what they call the "anti-Russian propaganda" of Lithuanian officials, and many hold pro-Kremlin views.

"Everything in the Lithuanian press is represented from the one side — that the Russians are the bad guys, that the Russians are coming, that Putin is always bad," complained Roman Nutsubidze, 30, who moved to Lithuania as an infant.

Nutsubidze, who lives in the predominantly ethnic Russian town of Visaginas, expressed frustration that the West doesn't see Putin as a good leader who has restored national pride to the Russian people. He said he loves Lithuania, but thinks Putin has no reason to want to seize the Baltic states.

"I don't see what he has done bad," Nutsubidze said. "I don't actually see it."
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on December 01, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
Feels like we are all moving backwards.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 01, 2016, 11:19:34 AM
don't sweat it - we're projecting so much strength from the White House starting in January that no one will dare fuck with us!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on December 01, 2016, 11:28:42 AM
Trump is going to have us invade the Baltics and then he'll lease them to the Russians. Yuge!
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: OJsDad on December 01, 2016, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: mirth on December 01, 2016, 11:28:42 AM
Trump is going to have us invade the Baltics and then he'll lease them to the Russians. Yuge!

:DD
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on December 01, 2016, 02:23:28 PM
'Terrific'
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on December 01, 2016, 07:37:36 PM
They'll never see that coming. Wait, now that you told everybody, maybe they will. I say name Rosie O'Donnell Ambassador to the Baltics-- the Russians will never come close to the place.
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2016, 08:24:58 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 01, 2016, 07:37:36 PM
They'll never see that coming. Wait, now that you told everybody, maybe they will. I say name Rosie O'Donnell Ambassador to the Baltics-- the Russians will never come close to the place.

Nah... we'd just end up with demotivational posters of of Vlad the Shirtless riding Rosie bareback through the Taiga...
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on December 01, 2016, 08:40:02 PM
 >:(
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Barthheart on December 01, 2016, 08:49:51 PM
(https://static.miraheze.org/allthetropeswiki/b/bc/Brain_bleach2_4427.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on December 01, 2016, 08:52:44 PM
Hahaha
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on December 01, 2016, 11:44:00 PM
AHHHH. My eyes, my eyes!   :hide:
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Boggit on December 07, 2016, 06:54:24 PM
Don't underestimate Vladimir Putin...

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m1vyhrIQNT1rt2jl6o1_1280.png&hash=43b90d2044b5572ce64c86a38b5ad5282e0e09df)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: mirth on December 07, 2016, 07:03:21 PM
(https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/trump-riding-eage.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Sir Slash on December 08, 2016, 10:20:21 AM
And his hair is still... prefect.  :dreamer:
Title: Re: Russian Pressure on the Baltics
Post by: Gusington on December 08, 2016, 12:07:01 PM
In Soviet Russia hair do you!