http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/16/middleeast/mosul-isis-operation-begins-iraq/index.html
This is looking like a very long and bloody endeavor. There's probably going to be a lot of collateral damage as well.
Hopefully is will get wrapped up sooner rather than later and not bog down.
I've read in the Wall St. Journal that a big part of the delay was a disagreement by Turkey & the Iraqis on the participation of troops backed by the Turks.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fwmd%2Fsystems%2Fimages%2Fb52-bomb.jpg&hash=9a3c6b19d2f760a10095fd07eca89f1f3d4267b0)
Which side are the Turks on? They've been allowing IS a deal of latitude in Syria until recently if French media is to be believed.
Given the Turks animosity towards the Shi'a, and over what is a Kurdish capital, I wonder how their involvement will play out?
Streamed live on facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154155702846939/
Can't wait to see the Brain-Dead Newsies making mistakes trying to 'inform' us un-washed masses who's who and what's where.
This is all "over there," for starters. Until it's not and the ISIS scumbags who escape from Mosul end up...somewhere else.
They're certainly not on our side. Wait, which side are WE on? :idiot2:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.relatably.com%2Fm%2Fimg%2Famerican-eagle-meme-tumblr%2F93a.jpg&hash=043e7e27ecb0d11508149aad1b1783e9364417e8)
I have a feeling this will be over by the weekend. Just enough time for the last debate.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 17, 2016, 09:42:52 PM
They're certainly not on our side. Wait, which side are WE on? :idiot2:
betting this all lasts 6-8 months, until someone else gets slightly mo' betta' organized and counter-attacks
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/middleeast/mosul-isis-operation-iraq/index.html
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 19, 2016, 08:01:14 AM
betting this all lasts 6-8 months, until someone else gets slightly mo' betta' organized and counter-attacks
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/middleeast/mosul-isis-operation-iraq/index.html
Interesting to see a mixture of US and Russian equipment on the same side.
Will this be Stalingrad-South? I hope not, but the Dead-Enders will stick around for the 72 Virgins-thing while the Honchos have probably already scattered. Hope that after the Bosses aren't looking anymore, the peons will all decide they're not quite ready for martyrdom and surrender. Then the next question is, "Who gets Mosul and all that oil"? And what happens when we reach the Syrian border? Cross it or let ISIS have a safe base to fight from?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 19, 2016, 08:01:14 AM
betting this all lasts 6-8 months, until someone else gets slightly mo' betta' organized and counter-attacks
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/middleeast/mosul-isis-operation-iraq/index.html
It will be interesting to compare the effectiveness and will of each of the 'Allied' ground players: Peshmerga, Militias, and Iraqi Regular Army.
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 19, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
It will be interesting to compare the effectiveness and will of each of the 'Allied' ground players: Peshmerga, Militias, and Iraqi Regular Army.
I'm pretty sure you've just ranked/listed them in the correct order...
http://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/isis-leaders-abandon-mosul-as-iraq-forces-close-in#xtor=CS1-10
So the leaders are said to be fleeing. And with civilians fleeing, the fighters can blend in the crowd and form sleeper cells. Except the foreigners they say.
Peshmerga for the win.
Quote from: Martok on October 19, 2016, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 19, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
It will be interesting to compare the effectiveness and will of each of the 'Allied' ground players: Peshmerga, Militias, and Iraqi Regular Army.
I'm pretty sure you've just ranked/listed them in the correct order...
Subconscious bias?
"The is no Dana only Mosul." I hope someone wrote that on an artillery shell.
How about 'Sul' on the first arty shell and then 'Mo' "Sul" on all the others? :2funny:
Ha that works
Quote from: Gusington on October 19, 2016, 05:35:42 PM
Peshmerga for the win.
Hope so, but Turkey has said it wants to be involved.
If they do without the Iraqi government say so, then that is an act of war. It hasn't bothered them in Syria, but I wonder whether they will cross the border to get a stake on Mosul simply by being there. If that happens then things get VERY complicated, especially as Putin and Erdogan are now new BFF's. ???
Quote from: Boggit on October 21, 2016, 05:30:21 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 19, 2016, 05:35:42 PM
Peshmerga for the win.
Hope so, but Turkey has said it wants to be involved.
If they do without the Iraqi government say so, then that is an act of war. It hasn't bothered them in Syria, but I wonder whether they will cross the border to get a stake on Mosul simply by being there. If that happens then things get VERY complicated, especially as Putin and Erdogan are now new BFF's. ???
Turkey is already in Iraq, against the legitimate Iraqi gov's wishes. It has that 'Training camp' just north of Mosul (15 miles or so?) that it can buff up and leapfrog from anytime it wants. Turkey also has it's own Sunni militia it's supporting there as well which is already in direct conflict against IS elements. When the Peshmerga moved in on the villages north of Mosul they had to carefully avoid the estimated ZOC of the Turks and friends up there.
Someone should AGEOD this regional conflict (along the line of Revolution Under Siege with all the various faction players). It would be forty levels of cray.
^Wait for the regional/global war DLC to be unveiled first. Featuring 21st century naval combat between the US and Russia in the Mediterranean.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 21, 2016, 02:01:02 PM
Someone should AGEOD this regional conflict (along the line of Revolution Under Siege with all the various faction players). It would be forty levels of cray.
The expansion for Labyrinth: The War on Terror just came out. Labyrinth: The Awakening: 2010-?. I'm just reading through the rules now. Lots of stuff about civil wars in Syria, Libya, and Iraq.
A good look at some of the Iraqi soldiers on the front lines fighting ISIS. It makes me hopeful for the post-war country of Iraq. Crucibles like this can pull a country together.
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-military-brothers-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-military-brothers-snap-story.html)
Also, this video from CNN today:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/middleeast/iraq-mosul-advance/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/middleeast/iraq-mosul-advance/index.html)
Yes, I know, the guy in the video is firing his M-240 machinegun from the shoulder, which is complete idiocy. However, these guys are on the front lines of a major battle against a great evil in our world. Their bravery, if not their level of military proficiency, deserve our respect, IMHO. Also, some shots of Iraqi Abrams tanks in action.
Would never have thought I'd respect the words "Iraqi" and "Abrams" used jointly together again in a sentence...
They can't start the battle yet. We're not watching until AFTER next Tuesday. ;D
I can't believe the Iraqis have Abrams either.
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2016, 04:42:39 PM
I can't believe the Iraqis have Abrams either.
Where do you think IS-HOLE got their Abrams from?. The Iraqi army left hundreds of US-made vehicles behind when Ramadi fell, including a bunch of MBTs
Maybe I phrased it wrong. I suppose I can't believe they are actually operating them. I guess that is pretty racist of me to say.
Watch the video. Take a look at the pictures. Read the articles. There are a group of heroes over there with the guts to advance into the teeth of ISIS suicide bombers, rockets, snipers, and ambushes to take their country back.
Trust me, I know how bad the Iraqi army was up until a couple of years ago. I had to work with them, and help train them. This is a different type of force moving into Mosul. They may not be very good now by our standards, but what I'm seeing is a toughness and determination that wasn't there before.
I suppose it's easy to forget that we disbanded the professional Iraqi army after we invaded and tried to replace it with a bunch of rank amateurs cobbled together in a force designed for internal security, then more or less left them out to dry when their country was invaded by a battle-hardened ISIS army that was both ruthless and fought like a conventional force.
AB,
Thank you for making sure we don't get too comfortable sitting around making the modern equivalent of Italian Navy glass Bottom boat/French Rifle Only Dropped Once jokes from the ease of our comfy chairs. We need a good slap every now and then, even if it's a friendly one.
I hope that all the brave Iraqi patriots you worked with over there make it through.
I've never been over to Iraq but I still think of it as a 5th-world hell hole. Clearly the US invasion didn't help. All I'm saying is that seeing Iraqis operate an M1 is new and novel to me. I'm not questioning their patriotism or anything like that.
Apologies, didn't mean to imply that you were. Just wanted to draw attention to the bravery and hard fighting that's going on over there.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 01, 2016, 08:36:58 PM
Just wanted to draw attention to the bravery and hard fighting that's going on over there.
Thanks for doing so.
Isn't that what the Abrams is designed to do when taking a hit like that to the turret rear? The ammo blows up and out, away from the crew compartment?
It looked like something you could return with a tennis racket - until it blew
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 01, 2016, 06:32:30 PM
I suppose it's easy to forget that we disbanded the professional Iraqi army after we invaded and tried to replace it with a bunch of rank amateurs cobbled together in a force designed for internal security, then more or less left them out to dry when their country was invaded by a battle-hardened ISIS army that was both ruthless and fought like a conventional force.
Oh, I remember all that well; I'm just impressed they've clawed back to being competent. O0
Quote from: mirth on November 02, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
Isn't that what the Abrams is designed to do when taking a hit like that to the turret rear? The ammo blows up and out, away from the crew compartment?
Yes, if the interior ammo doors are closed. The bigger problem us that an atgm team got an ass shot like that.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 02, 2016, 03:42:16 PMYes, if the interior ammo doors are closed.
The interior ammo doors are
always closed unless they're in the process of reloading the main gun.
They're on automatic sliders.
^that's what I thought
Pretty intense account from a CNN reporter with some of the first Iraqi troops into eastern Mosul: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/05/middleeast/iraq-inside-mosul-battle/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/05/middleeast/iraq-inside-mosul-battle/index.html)
The highlight is walking wounded in a casualty collection point, being led by a lieutenant who's been shot twice, fighting off multiple ISIS attacks until relief arrives.
Sounds like they've a taken a level or two in badass.
But aside from the heroic courage involved, can we hope they'll treat the population better if they're the winners? :-\
I honestly don't know. Past experience of regimes in the area doesn't lead me to be hopeful about this; I'd like things to be different this time.
Really incredible 60 Minutes report tonight from Lara Logan embedded with the Iraqi counter-terrorism forces fighting ISIS in Mosul: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-battle-for-mosul-iraq-lara-logan/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-battle-for-mosul-iraq-lara-logan/)
Many of the Iraqi soldiers you see in this report are dead by the time it ends, but the survivors keep fighting, keep pushing forward. Some interesting comments by the reporter as well, that the enemy in Mosul is really something new to our age: not just a suicide bomber here or there, but an army of suicide bombers defending the city.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 06, 2016, 08:24:03 PMthat the enemy in Mosul is really something new to our age: not just a suicide bomber here or there, but an army of suicide bombers defending the city.
Isn't the 'army of suicide bombers' the fear that the US had if it had been forced to invade the Japanese homeland.
Perhaps, perhaps not. We didn't have to put that one to the test, fortunately.
That was an incredible report. I feel terrible now for posting what I did about the Iraqis and M1s.
Good report.
The battle for western Mosul is about to begin: http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-assault-20170218-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-assault-20170218-story.html)
Taking eastern Mosul took a hundred days and some Iraqi units suffered up to 50% casualties, possibly partly because of this:
QuoteIn the aftermath of the offensive for eastern Mosul, aid agencies lauded Iraqi forces for their restraint. The troops relied mainly on small-arms fire and avoided needless destruction of property and killing of civilians.
The urban terrain in western Mosul is supposed to be much more difficult, with narrower streets and older buildings, and a less supportive population.
I'm always surprised by the variety of "technicals" that arise in resource constrained environments. Old up-armored HMMWV as an MLRS? Check.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fichef.bbci.co.uk%2Fnews%2F660%2Fcpsprodpb%2FE152%2Fproduction%2F_94728675_mediaitem94728674.jpg&hash=2b931d3949bc3c6771fb36943311a52dfd0d9ae2)
Impressive bit of jury-rigging.
Yeah. I wonder who the first guy was that tried it out. Probably the 'new guy'. :hide:
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 19, 2017, 06:52:49 AM
The battle for western Mosul is about to begin: http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-assault-20170218-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-mosul-assault-20170218-story.html)
Taking eastern Mosul took a hundred days and some Iraqi units suffered up to 50% casualties, possibly partly because of this:
QuoteIn the aftermath of the offensive for eastern Mosul, aid agencies lauded Iraqi forces for their restraint. The troops relied mainly on small-arms fire and avoided needless destruction of property and killing of civilians.
The urban terrain in western Mosul is supposed to be much more difficult, with narrower streets and older buildings, and a less supportive population.
Well if the population hates them anyways, they may not show as much restraint
Pretty good rundown of the offensive into western Mosul so far: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/middleeast/western-mosul-offensive/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/middleeast/western-mosul-offensive/index.html)
The accompanying video is decent as well.