Paradox has been on a roll this year. Tyranny is coming out 10 Nov. Earlier this year they released Stellaris and HOI4 about a month apart. On top of that, they've either released or are about to release updates/DLC for EUIV, CKII, and even a patch for VickyII in the last year. Have they ever had a 12 month period that they've released so much?
I've purchased Stellaris when it released, and just purchased CKII this year. I know many of us have put Stellaris to the side until further updates/DLC come out, and many that have purchased HOI4 have done the same. Not everyone is happy with changes the updates/DLC for the older titles introduce. But, as a whole, I, as a grog, am very happy with knowing that they are not only supporting existing titles, but are reaching outside their traditional games to try new things.
So, three cheers for the Paradox team and hoping for many more years of great gaming entertainment!!
They went public with part of their stock, they now answer to their stockholders. The last two releases have been evident to me the company is toast, dumb'ed down gaming. Just my opinion, I'm not supporting them anymore. Paradox the new mediocre strategy gaming company, it's a shame. Of course this is only my opinion.
What were the last two releases? Stellaris and HOI4?
yes those were the last two
Quote from: rss334 on October 18, 2016, 08:38:58 PM
yes those were the last two, I say dumb'ed down and partially also mean "accessible". Everyone knows what happens when you take grand strategy and make it accessible.
Quote from: rss334 on October 18, 2016, 08:30:23 PM
They went public with part of their stock, they now answer to their stockholders. The last two releases have been evident to me the company is toast, dumb'ed down gaming. Just my opinion, I'm not supporting them anymore. Paradox the new mediocre strategy gaming company, it's a shame. Of course this is only my opinion.
Gotta disagree here.
Stellaris might be considered dumbed down at launch however look at it - they have never made a true 4X (that I know of). I imagine they released the game and waited to hear what the fan base wants. I don't think any of Pdox's 1st attempts at games were anything to write home about.
If you think HOI4 is dumbed down then I don't want to know what you consider "complex". HOI4 has so many layers I know I haven't peeled more than maybe half of them back. The only place I agree they may have dumbed it down was intrigue / diplomacy and I think they will fix / DLC it.
again just my opinion, I know some agree and some don't. I still play hearts of iron 3 and find it much better game. Stellaris makes me sick when compared to distant worlds, but again to each their own.
rss334, I respect your opinion and can only say to each his own. For me, HoI4 and Stellaris are well done games that have potential to get better with DLC releases. I'm still playing both and have many hours of enjoyment from each. But that's just me. Others don't feel the same.
Stellaris still has a lot of growing to do, but it also had a few nice features that I wish DW had. I'll be real interested to see how DW2 evolves. Also, DW has had several years and number of DLC to mature. Based on the DLC/patch that coming soon, Stellaris will take a step in the right direction to that maturity.
I haven't purchased HOI4 yet, but one thing I won't miss when I get it, is the Chain of Command. I always felt like I was in micromanagement hell. When I play HOI, I want to be the supreme overload of my country, not the head of personnel.
Quote from: rss334 on October 18, 2016, 08:47:51 PM
again just my opinion, I know some agree and some don't. I still play hearts of iron 3 and find it much better game. Stellaris makes me sick when compared to distant worlds, but again to each their own.
IIRC it took DW a few (not inexpensive) expansions to "get it right".
And HOI3 was a disaster when it was first released.
But at least Pdox tries to improve (whether you agree with the improvements or not)
How many AAA dev's release crappy or completely broken ports of console games and the shrug and basically state "we'll we got your pre-order money so F you"
I agree that them going public is a cause for concern...but I won't get real worried until you start seeing staff changes at t he design and executive levels. That IMO will imply corporate changes are incoming and probably to the detriment to the gamer.
Don't have Stellaris but didn't it just get a massive patch today?
As far as DW. I really got into it originally and the second release was a bit better. IMO the last release was more of a cash grab and iirc, not much changed. Seemed like too small of steps.
I hope DW2 can be as groundbreaking as the original but feel it will be just an upgrade. I hope im wrong.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 18, 2016, 09:01:47 PM
I haven't purchased HOI4 yet, but one thing I won't miss when I get it, is the Chain of Command. I always felt like I was in micromanagement hell. When I play HOI, I want to be the supreme overload of my country, not the head of personnel.
This is why I love Pirates (the original) and Red Storm Rising. You are the Captain of a ship / boat...you should not be spending time looking at a waterfall display or taking a sun sighting...you should have capable subordinates that can do this.
As supreme ruler games you should tell your army where to go and then based on your general's competency they get there.
Just because a game isn't as good as another game doesn't mean it's bad. DW is a high bar but as others have eluded to, not without teething issues. The original game was god but very lacking. It was only after a few expansions that Distant Worlds became that great game. So I just think it's unfair to compare a brand new game with one that has received 3-4 DLC's
I like Stellaris and think it's a very well done game. Is not dumbed down. All these 4xs have things they do that others don't..things they make complex that others simplify. Hell, Polaris Sector is better than all of them.
I agree with OJ...Paradox is doing a great job. Oh how we look at the past through rose colored glasses. I remember 4-6 years ago when people were complaining that paradox games were crap at release and aren't good until 3-4 DLCs. Then they released CK2 and EU4. People complained they were to "simple" and not enough to do. Now they are both great games. Paradox does a great job
It's great when a game company continues supporting games and making them better. And that's even more reason to note the public offering. If that causes change in the wrong departments, quality and commitment to quality, may go by the wayside. And that would be sad.
I totally agree with OJsDad
I enjoyed playing Stellaris far more than I did Distant Worlds and if that was there first outing into 4x games, then kudos. Also, there's a HUGE patch just been released.
Distant Worlds wasn't a bad game at all - I just got lost in it. Even it's automation confused the hell out of me and that was put in to make the game accessible. Sometimes, removing things from the player is not the best way to make a game more accessible...giving them a better, easier, more streamlined way to do something can be better than automation - which effectively just hides some aspects of the game that you will either miss forever or forget or just plain not discover because you're happy where the game sits with you.
As for HoI4, I see a lot of the "dumbed down" criticisim - however I also see a lot of statements saying it's just had improvements to the user interface to make it easier for the user to get a handle on the game. I haven't played it enough (at all?) to justify either way....point is what's another man's wine is...
I think Paradox is far from dead.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 18, 2016, 07:58:23 PM
Paradox has been on a roll this year. Tyranny is coming out 10 Nov. Earlier this year they released Stellaris and HOI4 about a month apart. On top of that, they've either released or are about to release updates/DLC for EUIV, CKII, and even a patch for VickyII in the last year. Have they ever had a 12 month period that they've released so much?
I've purchased Stellaris when it released, and just purchased CKII this year. I know many of us have put Stellaris to the side until further updates/DLC come out, and many that have purchased HOI4 have done the same. Not everyone is happy with changes the updates/DLC for the older titles introduce. But, as a whole, I, as a grog, am very happy with knowing that they are not only supporting existing titles, but are reaching outside their traditional games to try new things.
So, three cheers for the Paradox team and hoping for many more years of great gaming entertainment!!
Rah rah rah! I agree, I'm one of those who has put both Stellaris and HOI 4 to the side waiting for further developments, but both games impressed me. I think EU 4 has reached masterpiece status, and I know a lot of people feel that way about CK 2, although I'm not one of them. If Civ 6 wasn't coming out, I would be tuning up Stellaris again as soon as Heinlein comes out, which is any day now. HOI 4 has a little more work to do to get the AI into passable condition, but Paradox of course has an excellent history of continuing to improve games long after their release - the history is even nicer now that Paradox no longer uses it as an excuse to make every game a buggy mess at 1st release.
I will certainly be interested to see how they do with a traditional RPG. But I'm on board for sure in saying they've been doing excellent work this and the last few years. The love-hate relationship I've had with them like forever has really pretty much given over to pure luv.
Just to clarify the original OP lumped Tyranny in the mix- that's not being developed by paradox--they are just publishing it--and if you go to their forums and look under the section "future releases" it's the only title there. They have this model of not announcing now until they are sure a title meets expectations in house--so we don't see things like we did with there announced--pushed-then canceled RPG.
The above however seperates them from most as most would not have canceled that RPG with so much already invested. But they knew it just wasn't working--and their aim is to release good games--and the last 4 releases have been pretty damn good--from victoria 2 onwards. Before that I though they were a crap publisher and was most vocal about it as I always am--they made a huge turn-a-round and any honest level headed gamer with a bent on being 'fair' has to acknowledge that.
Now , having said that doesn't wipe all their faults either. the biggest still remains. Piss poor A.I.---I have hundreds of hours in their titles. They have...and always have had...piss poor A.I. After decades I have yet seen a HOI game with anything but---some titles fair better than others--but right now Stellaris isn't one of them. HOI4 isn't one of them. But unlike the civ games...that also share the same piss poor A.I.--the lore hasn't been replaced with Political correct +1 or +2 ammounting to bland cookie countries with no flavor or charm. Civ5 has hexes and combined arms for example---but the game is totally uncapable of using that to win. it must 'cheat' to win a 'science' victory or whatnot but it cannot win a conquest victory at all. Gone..are fanatics, religion and really governments--replaced with what...+1 +2--- and like paradox a innate skill to never invest enough to develop good A.I.---but at least Paradox isn't cutting the meat out of game lore as Faraxis yet.
Lots of good comments here. I agree that it can be a cause of worry with Paradox being a public company now. And yes, not all title are done in house, but they are putting their name on them. I don't believe Cities was done in house either. But they get lots of push from Paradox and a big thumbs up to them for stepping out of their typical game development, whether done in house or with a third party developer.
Back in the 80's and 90's we had SSI and Microprose. Both are now long gone though it was hard to image that ever happening to either one. Today we have Paradox and Matrix. Will these two disappear. Most likely. But for now, lets enjoy.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 19, 2016, 07:27:12 AM
Lots of good comments here. I agree that it can be a cause of worry with Paradox being a public company now. And yes, not all title are done in house, but they are putting their name on them. I don't believe Cities was done in house either. But they get lots of push from Paradox and a big thumbs up to them for stepping out of their typical game development, whether done in house or with a third party developer.
Back in the 80's and 90's we had SSI and Microprose. Both are now long gone though it was hard to image that ever happening to either one. Today we have Paradox and Matrix. Will these two disappear. Most likely. But for now, lets enjoy.
Yep, they will go as well, but as long as there is a market for quality wargames, someone will fill it. With digital downloading service like Steam, I HAVE to think it's a lot easier for smaller developers to get titles out. Don't need a huge publisher with warehouses and equipment
Quote from: jamus34 on October 18, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
This is why I love Pirates (the original) and Red Storm Rising. You are the Captain of a ship / boat...you should not be spending time looking at a waterfall display or taking a sun sighting...you should have capable subordinates that can do this.
...um, I kind of remember spending time looking at (something like a) waterfall display in RSR, and taking a sun sighting in the original Pirates... ::)
Paradox has long had a habit of releasing either games they published but didn't develop that were sketchy in quality even if ultimately fun (sometimes) and which never got fixed, or games they developed which were sketchy in quality even if ultimately fun (sometimes) and which they've worked hard to fix. In past years, the big difference has been that they got paid more, and more often, to fix and improve the games they developed, and this has allowed them to release higher quality games from the outset.
Also, while I don't know whether Matrix (as a publisher) or Paradox were in trouble before Steam, Steam has very evidently helped them out. The money put into their games since each went to Steam, has clearly increased.
Steam takes a big cut from the sales though.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 19, 2016, 09:04:58 AM
Quote from: jamus34 on October 18, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
This is why I love Pirates (the original) and Red Storm Rising. You are the Captain of a ship / boat...you should not be spending time looking at a waterfall display or taking a sun sighting...you should have capable subordinates that can do this.
...um, I kind of remember spending time looking at (something like a) waterfall display in RSR, and taking a sun sighting in the original Pirates... ::)
Granted I'm going on very sketchy memories here but while you could do it you didn't have to. Depending on the difficulty setting your crew would do the work, it just depended on how long it would take to get the info. I remember a DOS sub game in the 90's that I am pretty sure required you to do all the work in the boat.
To me that is worthless. If you are commander of a boat your job is to command. I can see going to other displays for status update (damage control, weapons status, etc) but anything that takes you away from the "sandtable" during combat ops is a detriment
Right, true, you didn't have to do those things in RSR and Pirates -- though it was more important to do it yourself in Pirates.
I am not considering newer paradox titles dumbed down, but certainly they are trying to attract more gamers. However, for some reason I lost interest in playing any of their games recently and for long time I didn't touch their games.