Rob Oren runs down the top 10 wargames of 2016!!!
https://youtu.be/xP-GpfYYnDY?t=79
:)
His endorsement of TL in its current state is rubbish on its face.
Quote from: Cyrano on December 31, 2016, 12:33:45 AM
His endorsement of TL in its current state is rubbish on its face.
TL?
I actually watched one of his Top 10s yesterday.. or skipped through some of it anyway. Don't recall what that stands for, though.
Tiger Leader
i save you guys 45 min of your life for better things then watching those rants here is the list quoted from comments:
10. Enemy Action: Ardennes - Compass Games
9. Tiger Leader - DVG
8. Gato Leader - DVG
7. MBT - GMT
6. Last Blitzkrieg - Multi-Man Publishing
5. Operation Dauntless - GMT
4. Escape from Colditz - Osprey Games
3. Mare Nostrum: Empires - Academy Games
2. Conflict of Heroes: Guadalcanal, The Pacific 1942 - Academy Games
1. Warfighter - DVG
Congrats to DVG for having three entries in the Top 10 listing! O0
I never tried any of these card driven games myself. I've had rotten luck so far trying to engage my kids in their late teens to wargaming. Yes, we've enjoyed a few nice game of Risk over the summer holidays at our cabin where they can't escape me, but that's about it.
They are all for latest and greatest FPS computer games, COD and all that. So I got curious about Warfighter? Is that an easy game to get into, anyone here tried it out yet?
I am thinking about the modern Tactical Special Ops version especially that came out a couple of years ago, that might get their interest better than the WW2 stuff. There's a copy available at the second hand market, for a decent price, something to try out perhaps?
Quote from: MikeGER on December 31, 2016, 03:04:50 AM
i save you guys 45 min of your life for better things then watching those rants here is the list quoted from comments:
10. Enemy Action: Ardennes - Compass Games
9. Tiger Leader - DVG
8. Gato Leader - DVG
7. MBT - GMT
6. Last Blitzkrieg - Multi-Man Publishing
5. Operation Dauntless - GMT
4. Escape from Colditz - Osprey Games
3. Mare Nostrum: Empires - Academy Games
2. Conflict of Heroes: Guadalcanal, The Pacific 1942 - Academy Games
1. Warfighter - DVG
Someone type up me a lost of top ten IN PRINT solo wargames. :idiot2:
Who is this guy? Does he work in the industry or is he just some guy with a YouTube channel and a bad mic?
I watched this video and his top 10 miniatures games for 2016. He's got some really odd ranking criteria and rationale. While I may have agreed with him on some of the selections on his lists, I can't say I agreed with him on any of his reasoning.
Quote from: DennisS on January 01, 2017, 10:14:30 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on December 31, 2016, 03:04:50 AM
i save you guys 45 min of your life for better things then watching those rants here is the list quoted from comments:
10. Enemy Action: Ardennes - Compass Games
9. Tiger Leader - DVG
8. Gato Leader - DVG
7. MBT - GMT
6. Last Blitzkrieg - Multi-Man Publishing
5. Operation Dauntless - GMT
4. Escape from Colditz - Osprey Games
3. Mare Nostrum: Empires - Academy Games
2. Conflict of Heroes: Guadalcanal, The Pacific 1942 - Academy Games
1. Warfighter - DVG
Someone type up me a lost of top ten IN PRINT solo wargames. :idiot2:
https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/212416/top-10-solo-games-2016 (https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/212416/top-10-solo-games-2016)
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on January 01, 2017, 11:17:06 AM
Who is this guy? Does he work in the industry or is he just some guy with a YouTube channel and a bad mic?
I watched this video and his top 10 miniatures games for 2016. He's got some really odd ranking criteria and rationale. While I may have agreed with him on some of the selections on his lists, I can't say I agreed with him on any of his reasoning.
He makes videos with/for The Dice Tower.
I saw that he's affiliated with them somehow (along with some guy calling himself the chief) but I never see him with the main 3 guys. Anyway, Dice Tower doesn't seem too big on wargames/wargamers in general. I watched the Dice Tower Top 10 wargames video. Tom Vassal started off with a diatribe against the grog community (only time I've ever seen him go off like that against a section of the gaming community) and then he and his two cohorts proceeded to list off 30 games that were about as far from a wargame as you could get.
The Chief and crew actually do some nice wargame reviews. They used to produce content for dice tower and now have their own YouTube channel.
Rob's a nice guy.
His gaming tastes aren't really the same as the Dice Tower regulars (Vasel and co.). I don't recall seeing much of his stuff on Dice Tower, other than some minis painting he did.
Unlike some, I don't fault him for not being a hardcore hex-grog. He still tends to show off games that I enjoy.
I'm rarely surprised when hex-grogs get a bad reputation for being elitist jerks to others. It's likely a vocal minority of bad apples in the group, but the damage has been done regularly enough for the reputation to stick. Unfortunately, I think such attitude turns some potential new players away from exploring the genre further.
We have so many new games these days, I don't see how any one person could possibly review them all, while giving each plenty of playtime...unless he is independently wealthy and does nothing else but play war games.
My biggest issue with this list (and lists like it) is that I can't help but feeling this is just the top 10 of the 20 new games he actually played this year.
Unless you're Marco, I suppose...
You're right, though, AT. Grog games aren't learned in a single play-through. Heck, I've had at NLB more than a dozen times and am still surprised, particularly in the hands of a new player. The real bear, of course, is that you can reset a monster game of Civ6 with a few mouse clicks. Doing the same thing with "Empires in Arms" takes a good deal more work -- if you've got friends sufficiently tolerant of the effort.
And the Dice Tower's relationship with war games is, at best, interesting. Tom doesn't like groggy games and says so. That's fine. I very much appreciate the love he gives to cross-over games like the C&C system. His dismissal, even outright frustration, with heavier games, though, should always be taken as one man's opinion.
Dan obviously posted the list because it said things he liked. No foul there, to be sure. The review of TL, though, won't stand scrutiny. He even mentions the upcoming SL, but doesn't mention that one of the "perks" "thrown in" is the kit to fix everything that's broken in TL.
You know, what I just don't get is people that are dismissive of what other people like to play. There's a ton of stuff that people post about here that I'm not at all interested in, but my lack of interest doesn't make it "bad." Conversely, I recognize that what I'm interested in might be fairly classified as a "niche of a niche" and there are plenty of people that just will never want to play the games I play.
Fair enough, and isn't that the point? Different people enjoy doing different things? So, when I hear about some blowhard that takes to a platform like Youtube to express his disdain for a type of game that he doesn't enjoy, I really have to wonder WTF is broken in his head. Here's a idea: STFU and go play what you want to play.
People need to learn that just because they can post in forums and make videos that their opinions really aren't of much value, simply because they have one.
All of which is a long way of saying I don't think I'll bother with watching The Dice Tower.
I watch quite a bit of the Dice Tower, because I like board games in general and I generally like their take on things. The truth is I often do not agree with their take, but that's part of the experience watching review/let's play videos. What I do like is seeing a board game out of the box, the components, some quick takes on game play, and general impressions. I think Dice Tower does a nice job of that plus unlike many others they don't feel the need for vulgar language or derisive commentary.
I've watched their wargame Top 10s and its exactly what I expected them to be and not heavy hex and counter games. Sam (one of the contributors) does like some wargames like Combat Commander and I'm pretty sure they all like 1775. The problem with heavy wargames is they are niche and don't have mass appeal like Ticket to Ride. That's ok too. I don't like Marco's reviews sometimes in part because I have a hard time understanding what he's saying, but also I never get the feeling that he's played the game more than once or much past setup. Anyway, its the beauty of having a choice in what to watch or not to watch.
I like the HAMTAG videos (not to Judd). I think that they do a good job and there's a different player in the three of them. I think Judd likes to play some of the more "groggier" games (that isn't ASL) that covers not just WW2 but all sorts of interesting topics. Greg likes the "classics" (old AH, etc. *including* ASL) and Bart is more your "light" wargamer that enjoys the CC:A/CC:N, Ambush, Heroes of Normandy, COH, etc. so they cover most every type of game that a wargamer would want to play.
And opinions are like a$$holes...we all know that saying. I post my jeers and snickers at some of the games mentioned here but I'd hope that after all this time you guys have learned my personality and that I'm just kidding around with you (while still taking a little jab). Hey, I'm a board wargamer first and if you're playing a board wargame of any caliber, that's ok with me. I enjoy some computer wargames as well and will snicker heavily at all the space/race/train/plane games that they talk about in that other forum over there but I guess in the end, we're all "gamers". Geeks and gamers and grogs.
Quote from: GJK on January 04, 2017, 06:51:43 AM
And opinions are like a$$holes...we all know that saying. I post my jeers and snickers at some of the games mentioned here but I'd hope that after all this time you guys have learned my personality and that I'm just kidding around with you (while still taking a little jab). Hey, I'm a board wargamer first and if you're playing a board wargame of any caliber, that's ok with me. I enjoy some computer wargames as well and will snicker heavily at all the space/race/train/plane games that they talk about in that other forum over there but I guess in the end, we're all "gamers". Geeks and gamers and grogs.
Poking fun in a community of the like minded is just having fun. I can't think of anything you or anyone has said in this forum that's been objectionable or mean-spirited. We give it right back to you about ASL.
I'll say this: I'm much more inclined to pay attention to your list of Top 10 Wargames of 2017 than I am some dude on Youtube that I've never heard of.
Quote from: panzerde on January 04, 2017, 09:12:08 AM
I'll say this: I'm much more inclined to pay attention to your list of Top 10 Wargames of 2017 than I am some dude on Youtube that I've never heard of.
GJK's list:
1. Yanks!
2. Yanks!
3. Yanks!
4. There are no other games worthy of mentioning.
5. :P
Pretty much what I expected, but at least we'd know that he's sure about it! ;D
Quote from: Bison on January 04, 2017, 09:17:16 AM
Quote from: panzerde on January 04, 2017, 09:12:08 AM
I'll say this: I'm much more inclined to pay attention to your list of Top 10 Wargames of 2017 than I am some dude on Youtube that I've never heard of.
GJK's list:
1. Yanks!
2. Yanks!
3. Yanks!
4. There are no other games worthy of mentioning.
5. :P
Lol! The Yanks reprint is pretty freakin' awesome, I'm not going to lie to you-as was Rising Sun the year before. Also looking forward to the Festung Budapest reprint and the Red October add-on for Red Barricades. And correct- nothing else to mention that captured my interests. ;)
Gary, are you also expecting a reprint of fKaC? That should probably be the next one I get.
Quote from: Ubercat on January 04, 2017, 11:28:39 PM
Gary, are you also expecting a reprint of fKaC? That should probably be the next one I get.
I'm trying to recall what the plans were for the reprint of FKaC- they may be adding Hollow Legions to it and toss in other goodies like they did Yanks. Yeah, playing the Brits is fun (they don't cower!)- you'll definitely want to sign up for a copy when they do announce the reprint. I want to get into PTO some more as well; I've only played a couple of scenarios of PTO...that's totally different than ETO for sure! I'm playing another DASL this weekend vs Sam Tyson (of Bounding Fire Productions). I'll have four hidden fortified building locations holding AT guns in that one to deal with!
But back on topic a bit- I watched this video referenced by the OP and it's not a bad video; it dragged on too long (should drop the "check the chat" every few minutes bit). And if Tiger Leader gives him childhood Christmas eve like dreams of wonder at night, then more power to him. Maybe Dan will get that one squared away with a 'fix-it' kit and it'll become what everyone had hoped that it would be.
Quote from: GJK on January 05, 2017, 06:51:30 AM
....
And if Tiger Leader gives him childhood Christmas eve like dreams of wonder at night, then more power to him. Maybe Dan will get that one squared away with a 'fix-it' kit and it'll become what everyone had hoped that it would be.
Having seen and tried the PnP version of the "fix it kit" for Tiger Leader I wasn't impressed still a broken concept of a game.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 05, 2017, 06:57:41 AM
Quote from: GJK on January 05, 2017, 06:51:30 AM
....
And if Tiger Leader gives him childhood Christmas eve like dreams of wonder at night, then more power to him. Maybe Dan will get that one squared away with a 'fix-it' kit and it'll become what everyone had hoped that it would be.
Having seen and tried the PnP version of the "fix it kit" for Tiger Leader I wasn't impressed still a broken concept of a game.
That's a bummer. I'll stick with the "Guderian's Best" third party add-on for "Patton's Best" then. It's very well done and I've been meaning to modify the PB VASSAL module to add it (and the other 'mods')- maybe soon.
As disreputable as DVG's follow-up to the TL traveshamockery has been, the one thing I did not hold to the game's account was its association with "Patton's Best". I don't know as the author was ever inclined to "remake" that far better game, but people -- frankly including myself -- assumed he was.
That might be part of the problem but it certainly was never the intension to be a remake or to fool people into believing that.
All of the early info pointed to a sort of platoon/company commander type thing like the air Leader games are Flight/Wing commander scale.
But, IMHO, it just failed outright to have the proper feel and hence fun/interest of that type of game.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 10, 2017, 11:45:27 AM
That might be part of the problem but it certainly was never the intension to be a remake or to fool people into believing that.
All of the early info pointed to a sort of platoon/company commander type thing like the air Leader games are Flight/Wing commander scale.
But, IMHO, it just failed outright to have the proper feel and hence fun/interest of that type of game.
What DVG does well, it does better than anyone. T/A Leader IS one of the best games ever made. Tiger Leader is just garbage..bad design, and worse execution. I will continue to purchase every flight leader game that comes along, including the new Israeli iteration..but until T/L gets a major overhaul, it's a no go for me.