http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/14/virginia-gop-baseball-practice-shooting-multiple-people-shot.html
Looks like the gunman was the only fatality.
I was hearing both that the gunman was dead, and that he was in custody, when I left home from work... :(
Fitting that he was shot rounding home base heading for the dugout. Though I'll be tactically curious why, with some security in the area, it took ten minutes to contain him.
Interesting that before he started, he evidently(?) approached one of the Reps leaving the area and asked if Dems or Repubs were practicing. (However, they don't seem to have confirmed yet that this was the shooter, or for that matter an accomplice.)
Current reports say custody, not dead.
Live report I'm hearing is that the shooter was in cover (with rifle per eyewitness) until he brought a pistol out of cover approaching the dugout.
10 year old Senator's son was present, dragged into the dugout.
One of my work buddies told me about this an hour ago but I can't find a link anywhere.
Quote from: Labbug on June 14, 2017, 07:24:23 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/14/virginia-gop-baseball-practice-shooting-multiple-people-shot.html
Link from op? -- I was streaming live news from there earlier, too.
It's really horrifying and telling on the state of American politics that I know a significant number of people, a few who are friends, that are supportive of the gunman's actions.
Doesn't really surprise me. The political 'Left' has always been more reactive, violent, and rabid than the 'Right'. And I thought they hated guns? :o
wrong forum for that kind of comment.
Let's attempt to stay away from politics on this if possible.
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2017, 02:19:44 PM
Let's attempt to stay away from politics on this if possible.
Sorry. Didn't mean to track it that way.
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2017, 02:19:44 PM
Let's attempt to stay away from politics on this if possible.
How? It was motivated by politics.
By not laying blame at one group or another and by not calling each other out.
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2017, 02:41:10 PM
By not laying blame at one group or another and by not calling each other out.
I'll clarify my original comment then by saying that if blame is to be laid anywhere other than the gunman, it should be on the increasing erosion of the middle and tribalism that is leading people on both sides to start to think that these kinds of responses are appropriate.
I really hope that if some good comes of this, it will be for reasonable people to step back and try to start disavowing violent action over disagreements, actively, rather than try to establish lines and goals where violence in support of politics is appropriate.
Not trying to be political, my own personal politics are usually my own. I just hear so much noise from both sides on this, daily, from friends and family that I have strong feelings when things like this happen.
That's the last I will say on it.
As much as I disagreed with and disliked Obama I never would have wanted him to be shot. Same with some other congress people who I think are just plain asshats, I just want them to go home. These are our leaders whether you agree with them or not. No one should condone shooting them.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on June 14, 2017, 02:50:01 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2017, 02:41:10 PM
By not laying blame at one group or another and by not calling each other out.
I'll clarify my original comment then by saying that if blame is to be laid anywhere other than the gunman, it should be on the increasing erosion of the middle and tribalism that is leading people on both sides to start to think that these kinds of responses are appropriate.
I really hope that if some good comes of this, it will be for reasonable people to step back and try to start disavowing violent action over disagreements, actively, rather than try to establish lines and goals where violence in support of politics is appropriate.
Not trying to be political, my own personal politics are usually my own. I just hear so much noise from both sides on this, daily, from friends and family that I have strong feelings when things like this happen.
That's the last I will say on it.
A thoughtful response. Agreed.
I know where that happened. About a week ago I had dinner a few blocks from the location of the shooting. My daughter lives a mile or two away. This morning and this evening I took the metro right by the field, and I was at work today 3 miles away, but had no clue that this had happened until I got home.
Gunman is dead, shot by the security detail that was with the representative.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on June 14, 2017, 02:50:01 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2017, 02:41:10 PM
By not laying blame at one group or another and by not calling each other out.
I'll clarify my original comment then by saying that if blame is to be laid anywhere other than the gunman, it should be on the increasing erosion of the middle and tribalism that is leading people on both sides to start to think that these kinds of responses are appropriate.
I really hope that if some good comes of this, it will be for reasonable people to step back and try to start disavowing violent action over disagreements, actively, rather than try to establish lines and goals where violence in support of politics is appropriate.
Not trying to be political, my own personal politics are usually my own. I just hear so much noise from both sides on this, daily, from friends and family that I have strong feelings when things like this happen.
That's the last I will say on it.
Just so you know, my comment was directed at Sir Slash's comment, not yours.
And I agree that this kind of violence is due to the increasing amount of extremism in political views and actions. It's bound to unleash some of the crazies. As someone else pointed out, it's a good thing the nutjob was bad at hitting moving targets.
Quote from: bobarossa on June 14, 2017, 05:42:15 PM
Just so you know, my comment was directed at Sir Slash's comment, not yours.
And I agree that this kind of violence is due to the increasing amount of extremism in political views and actions. It's bound to unleash some of the crazies. As someone else pointed out, it's a good thing the nutjob was bad at hitting moving targets.
I didn't think it was directed at me. I just didn't want to be responsible for starting to take things down a left vs right tack by having my original comment misconstrued.
I will stand by my previous statement and also stand by that it should've been more diplomatic and posted in a more appropriate location. Still, a tragedy of the highest order. Thank God more people weren't injured. News reports indicate the only reason Capitol Police were there was the presence of the Majority Whip. Otherwise there would have been no protection at all. :o
I don't think you have to apologize Sir Slash. The facts. An attempted mass political assassination of elected officials of one party. One congressman is in critical condition and still fighting for his life. Several aides and police shot and in critical to stable conditions. The assassin posted and followed online groups and media that advocated for violence against Republicans, conservatives, and President Trump. That's not pointing fingers. Those are the facts as we know them to be right now. It is a very classic case of terrorism.
How can a thread on a topic like this BE separated from politics? It's the root of the story.
It doesn't have to be. But it can be separated from name-calling and abusive behavior towards each other here in this forum, which it has been for the most part so far.
Well, I guess this thread can be about following the developing facts of the story; and a RPF thread could be an analytical commentary of the data. O:-)
If you guys want this moved to R&P so you can take the gloves off I can do that.
Are those gloves supposed to be the thick, leather work gloves or the soft, pink chiffon type I prefer? I can never remember. ???
Silk.
That's my undies.
Quote from: Gusington on June 15, 2017, 06:22:00 PM
If you guys want this moved to R&P so you can take the gloves off I can do that.
Take the gloves off about what exactly? Is the motive for terror not supposed to be discussed? Anyway, I'm good with whatever happens with this thread. I just find it odd that discussing the political motivation of an assassination attempt is seen as signaling out someone here.
My attempt here is to keep the discussion civil without singling anyone out, posters or members of a political party. No where above did I say the motive could not be discussed. I said that personal attacks would not be allowed. And we have all been around here long enough (and some have taken hiatus) when threads like this devolve into name calling and worse.
This crime is an affront that any rational person should find abhorrent and it is natural for passions to run high. I want to keep the passion to a simmer before it gets out of control.
And if it gets out of control, I've offered to move it to R&P where that's allowed. It can be either way, so I don't know what else I can say or how much simpler I can say it. Jeez people.
The thing that is most disturbing about this shooting was that I don't think this guy was crazy. The views he expressed are entirely mainstream on the Left. I'm not trying to attack anyone by saying that, but his views were not out of the ordinary. Usually when someone starts shooting people it doesn't take long to find a view that person held that was strange. Like that one guy who stabbed people on the train. He was a Bernie supporter, but also a white supremacist. Those things just don't connect in a normal mind.
I was having this discussion with my one of my friends a couple of months ago, that the Left needs to calm down and look at things in perspective and without so much emotion- or somebody is going to get hurt (or many somebodies). I am not trying to get this thrown into R&P, but the temperature on the Left is overheated. You have comedians saying vile things and holding a severed Trump head. You have people, in all earnestness, talking about half of the country being Nazis. You have intellectuals who should know better not confronting the charges that Trump is LITERALLY Hitler. Too many Democrats think they are resisting a literal authoritarian takeover by wannabe racist Nazis.
That's not even the bad part. The bad part is the next mass shooting in retaliation. Trump won the election, the Left needs to finally come to grips with that. He will not be thrown in jail. He will not be successfully impeached. He is going to be there for 4 years- DEAL WITH IT. Calm down and get out of crisis mode, for the sake of your own sanity. For the sake of not seeing anymore mass shootings being perpetrated by sane individuals.
If this is the straw that breaks the camels back that gets this thrown into R&P, feel free to delete it. You simply cannot discuss the shooting without discussing the hysteria rampant on the Left in 2017.
Nothing in the above post warrants this being tossed into the bowels of R&P by my reckoning.
Of course, like you say above, we now wait for a response 💀
It seems the guy behind the shooting had been in the DC area for a couple of months. Was he planning something like this all along. Or was this a reaction to something else. Did the Kathy Gifford's Trump behead photo and or the theatre play showing a Trump look alike being assassinated.
Compare the non-stop reactions in the media to a rodeo clown wearing a mask and the let's not make this political reaction to a man who actually shoots and attempts to kill as many politicians as possible. It's frankly disgusting. The media is complicit as are the Democrat politicians like former AG Lynch and VP candidate Kaine who call for protests and blood on the streets.
If we truly want to confront and solve, or reduce the chances, of this sort of stuff happening again we have to talk about the elephant in the room. This was caused by the political climate in the country. Recently there have been many calls for violence from the left. Now it has happened. How can you possibly come up with solutions without acknowledging this? It is like the refusal to call it Islamic terrorism. It is what it is. Let's not dwell on it, lets figure out a way to stop having the 2 sides demonize and dehumanize the other. That is how the Nazi's worked their evil. We need to confront it head on.
I couldn't agree more Marty and Bison. :clap:
It is this kind of shit that needs to be confronted and stopped.
'NJ Democratic strategist launches #HuntRepublicans and #HuntRepublicanCongressmen
After a shooter in Alexandria left House Majority Whip Steve Scalise in critical condition and wounded four other people, a longtime New Jersey Democratic political strategist responded by introducing the hashtags #HuntRepublicans and #HuntRepublicanCongressmen.
"We are in a war with selfish, foolish & narcissistic rich people," wrote James Devine on Twitter. "Why is it a shock when things turn violent? #HuntRepublicanCongressmen."
Devine has run for office, consulted for numerous New Jersey campaigns, and worked in the offices of state lawmakers. He's also a blogger.'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/16/nj-democratic-strategist-launches-huntrepublicans-and-huntrepublicancongressmen.html
"We [CONSTANTLY HARP ABOUT HOW WE] are in a war with selfish, foolish & narcissistic rich people," wrote James Devine on Twitter. "Why is it a shock when things turn violent? #HuntRepublicanCongressmen."
As far as I'm concerned, Devine should be exiled to a collectivist farm in North Korea. >:(
I hear Lil' Kim needs a new, "Beloved Leader Butt-Whipper" position filled. The last one forgot to spray perfume on it after. :buck2:
Quote from: Marty Ward on June 16, 2017, 10:32:20 AM
It is this kind of shit that needs to be confronted and stopped.
'NJ Democratic strategist launches #HuntRepublicans and #HuntRepublicanCongressmen
After a shooter in Alexandria left House Majority Whip Steve Scalise in critical condition and wounded four other people, a longtime New Jersey Democratic political strategist responded by introducing the hashtags #HuntRepublicans and #HuntRepublicanCongressmen.
"We are in a war with selfish, foolish & narcissistic rich people," wrote James Devine on Twitter. "Why is it a shock when things turn violent? #HuntRepublicanCongressmen."
Devine has run for office, consulted for numerous New Jersey campaigns, and worked in the offices of state lawmakers. He's also a blogger.'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/16/nj-democratic-strategist-launches-huntrepublicans-and-huntrepublicancongressmen.html
doesnt this fall under hate speech laws? if it said blacks or gays or trump this person would probably be facing charges of some sort.
Or if it said "Democrats".
(I would joke about running out to copyright #HuntDemocrats and #HuntDemocratCongressmen, but I have family and loved ones who are Democrats. And even if I didn't, what Christless moron would even joke about it under the circumstances. :knuppel2: )
Edited to add: still, tactical props to Devine I guess -- no such thing as bad publicity, right? :buck2:
It turns out the shooter had a hand written list of six Republican Representatives in his pocket at the time of the shooting.
Stephen Colbert had a pretty peaceful and conciliatory reaction. I wonder how he'd have been if a right winger had shot some democratic congressmen?
Quote from: Ubercat on June 16, 2017, 08:42:23 PM
Stephen Colbert had a pretty peaceful and conciliatory reaction. I wonder how he'd have been if a right winger had shot some democratic congressmen?
You don't need much of an imagination to know. Look at the reactions when it is just thought to be something done by a right winger, like the Portland stabbings.
Quote from: Marty Ward on June 16, 2017, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: Ubercat on June 16, 2017, 08:42:23 PM
Stephen Colbert had a pretty peaceful and conciliatory reaction. I wonder how he'd have been if a right winger had shot some democratic congressmen?
You don't need much of an imagination to know. Look at the reactions when it is just thought to be something done by a right winger, like the Portland stabbings.
Wasn't the Portland stabber a Sanders supporter also or am I getting him confused with someone else.
Quote from: OJsDad on June 16, 2017, 09:25:35 PM
Quote from: Marty Ward on June 16, 2017, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: Ubercat on June 16, 2017, 08:42:23 PM
Stephen Colbert had a pretty peaceful and conciliatory reaction. I wonder how he'd have been if a right winger had shot some democratic congressmen?
You don't need much of an imagination to know. Look at the reactions when it is just thought to be something done by a right winger, like the Portland stabbings.
Wasn't the Portland stabber a Sanders supporter also or am I getting him confused with someone else.
I think so. He was a real nut case and seemed to hate a lot of things. Of course it was immediately said he was a right winger though.
Well you have democrats openly calling for murder of right wings and theaters reenacting julius cesars murder with Trump as the dictator. How on earth can this come as any form of surprise for anyone ?
I think this is going to kick off a series of retaliatory attacks from both left and right wingers.
I remember all of the assassination talk about Cheney/Bush and how not tiny segments of the Left were secretly hoping something would happen. Krauthammer lightly labelled it "Bush Derangement Syndrome". Now in the age of Trump, we have plays that outright depict his assassination to standing ovations.
I am not saying liberals are different than conservatives, I think it is just human nature. Where I see liberals go wrong is that they have these violent thoughts and desires but project these feelings onto more suitable targets- their political opponents. I think this allows them to have these violent thoughts without the guilt that would normally accompany immoral thoughts.