While the Steam sale is about to wrap up, I've been pootling around looking for a good castle-building sandbox sim that I could play for my nieces. There are several new contenders but they're still in beta or even alpha.
I've got most of the Stronghold series already, although I've only ever played S1 and (to a much smaller extent) its rather initially buggy 3D sequel S2. (This was back in the day when patches were few and hard to come by, although I did like S2 in principle.) I've got Stronghold: Crusader but haven't really tried it, even though reportedly it's still the best of the bunch. (In HD naturally, but I've heard much more dubious things about S:C2.)
The nieces love both castles (in principle) and Little House on the Prairie, and I've often thought someone could hit major gold combining those two genres in a family-level TV show someday: The Littlest Castle or something like that, where a newly minted baron is sent with his family and some starting families to repair, renovate, and ugprade an old keep on a hill at the borderlands somewhere. Over the seasons as the girls grow up, the keep and its environs are constantly upgraded, and they deal with normal problems of living and settling the area, plus politics internally and back home and with any neighbors, etc.
So ideally I'd like to be able to set up something as similarly as possible: start with a small keep, on a decently large map, upgrade facilities from there. More ideally I'd like to be able to rename peeps on the ground and follow them around, even more ideally zoom in to get an eye-level view of what's going on. Seasons change, etc. Fantasy elements are fine but not required; for sake of (one of) their parents, low-fantasy at most would be better than high fantasy. ::)
I thought Forest Village might be good for this, except it's still missing "keep" functionality: you can build up to that point but the keep doesn't do anything yet. Also, it's just about the last thing instead of nearly the first.
One of the latter Settler games maybe? Rise of an Empire or Heritage of Kings? Those tend to focus on a particular main character avatar riding around helping manage situation, and you can zoom in pretty far but not to full eye-level (despite the opening cinematic of whichever one I tested our recently). It does tend to start with a nearby small keep and upgrade from there (like basic missions in Stronghold).
Uh... one of the later Guild games? ???
No idea on ages but if they like LHotP then they might like Banished. It has that building a society in hard conditions feel to it
Medieval Engineers comes to mind. Its by the same crew that did Space Engineers.
Medieval Engineers still in beta?
Quote from: jamus34 on June 29, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
No idea on ages but if they like LHotP then they might like Banished. It has that building a society in hard conditions feel to it
True, and the whole rationale for
Forest Village is to pick up on
Banished, evidently abandoned by its dev, and create an expanded version. But it's still in late alpha or maybe early beta -- technically there are features still to be added, which should make it a late alpha; and more importantly, its castle mechanics are currently only meant for some minor aesthetics late in the game.
But yes, that's exactly why I considered FV first: Banished but better plus castles. O0 What's already there
would be very LHotP Medieval; the castle portion might be ready by this time next year.
JH, I had forgotten to check into Medieval Engineers, thx!
Ah, MediEngineers has come along quite nicely. The main problem seems to be that a lone single-player would be working (and fighting) alone? -- like in a sp of other survival games? (Fortresscraft for example.)
Okay, they did have bots, but since the introduction of "planet" worlds, the bots (and animals, and maybe barbarians too) have been taken out.
Hm, Stronghold 2 just today was removed from the Steam store (more or less) in anticipation of releasing a new Steam version of the game, to be provided for free (like CoH) for anyone who owns Strong2 already.
I suspect this is because, despite its problems, Strong2 is the best-liked of the various 3D iterations of the system (StrongCrus1 being the overall champion).
Guild Renaissance? I've got that already, but Steam support seems better and is super-cheap right now. Doesn't seem like a builder sandbox, although it's got lots of family RPG. (...uh, not for the whole family maybe. ;) )
Settlers 7? Not sure I want to risk hosing my UPlay account. Reports of stability with Ubi fluctuate recently; some say lots better, others report poison. As noted I have Set6, I think also 5 somewhere.
Life is Feudal allows (after a loooong grind) to build castles, but you would need some pretty dedicated friends to play along with.
Settlers 7 is a fun game, but not really castle building.
Something different, but perhaps up your street might be Lands of Lords; www.landsoflords.com
A browser based medieval empire builder with resource gathering, trade, construction, dynasties and diplomacy.
Its slow paced but perhaps to your liking?
I have always liked the premise of the Guild games, but they never clicked. The UI is cluncky and the games were riddled with bugs and broken functionality is what I remember. But perhaps the later versions have improved?
I would recommend Castle Strike if you can find it somewhere. I really enjoyed the building options and it's solid. Don't know why it's not on GOG yet.
On GOG, there will be Kingdoms & Castles soon....looks fun.
Citadels had some nice ideas but it has bugs. For the current price, it might be Worth a look.
I have never played any of the Stronghold games...which is the most solid one available right now? Love me some castles.
A friend wants this:
Veil_of_Crows. I think their is castle building and it is single player only which I know you guys love.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/601540/Veil_of_Crows/
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4rEDEWAeCxo/maxresdefault.jpg)
I've looked at Veil of Crows but a lot of the Steam reviews claim it is 'unfinished' IIRC.
Quote from: Gusington on June 30, 2017, 06:54:29 AM
I have never played any of the Stronghold games...which is the most solid one available right now? Love me some castles.
I really liked
Stronghold 2...and it's being updated...
I may add that to my Steam looting this afternoon 😎
Quote from: Gusington on June 30, 2017, 07:37:10 AM
I may add that to my Steam looting this afternoon 😎
Anyone worth their Grog will add it after reading this thread! :D
I've never played it, but can't you build castles in Minecraft?
Re most solid Stronghold game: Stronghold 2 is probably the best 3D version of the engine so far (which is really, really sad ;) ), but you can't buy it on Steam yet. Or rather, you can buy the "Stronghold Pack" on steam, which will also get you SH1 and SH:C, but the SH2 functionality is currently kibosh. That's because they're fixing to release a Steam version of SH2. But if you buy the pack, you'll get SH2 update for free. Hopefully, but not certainly, this will include ongoing patch work. Even if it doesn't, though, it will DEFINITELY include Workshop and thus fan mod/patches.
The most solid SH game to date is universally regarded to be Stronghold Crusaders Extreme (which allows up to 10K units on the map), which is part of the Steam Stronghold Collection. You can also get some nice things from GoG on that game. I do not know whether Crusader/Extreme HD is considered to be part of the pack, but I strongly suspect that the SH1 and SH:C which are included are the HD versions, because I bought the pack on Steam some years ago and I don't have non-HD versions of those games.
Crusader/Extreme adds extra functionality to the SH1 engine, and aside from the (not entirely aesthetic) difference of terrain between 1 and C, there is no real reason to play SH1. (The plot is just an excuse to play maps under certain conditions, and Crusader has an extension of the same plot with more characters to fight and team up with.) Also Crusader allows playing and fighting against an actual Saracen factions rather than mere copies of your own troops.
I am sincerely considering a sandbox of CrusaderX HD for my little project (especially since I already own it ;) ), but from having played SH1 I'm not sure it's exactly what I'm after. You can however play non-battle campaigns all the Stronghold games. (Which are basically trash. ::) But sandbox non-battle is possible, too.)
Wow there are a lot of Stronghold games and bundles available. Flummoxing.
Quote from: bbmike on June 30, 2017, 07:43:48 AM
I've never played it, but can't you build castles in Minecraft?
Yes, but not developing a village with bots per se. Also, if I'm going to build Voxel castles in a survival mode I'm going to play Medieval Engineers. They look and act muccchhhh nicer. IF ME had bot functionality put back in yet, I might use it for my project. (Or maybe not since the bots are all clones.)
Quote from: Gusington on June 30, 2017, 07:53:10 AM
Wow there are a lot of Stronghold games and bundles available. Flummoxing.
In your case, just get the Collection. Ignore anything after SH2. (Crusader and Extreme predate SH2.)
Re Veil of Crows -- I might get that in any case, now that I'm reminded of it, but I don't think it may be quite right for the nieces, any more than Warband would be. (I have to be careful how violent things get.) Good reminder otherwise tho!!
Just read a bunch of reviews on Veil of Crows and the consensus is that a good foundation is there but it is not a final product yet.
There are multiple Stronghold bundles too! 'EXTREME!!' and whatnot. What's a short swarthy jew to do?
Re buggy Guild games: from my research yesterday, it seems like Guild 2 Renaissance is the top of the list, and that fan patching has continued especially on Steam, which is why in any case I'm going to rebuy it there while it's on sale. Guild 3 is on the way, but no one (myself included) has any confidence the devs will run it smoothly out of the gate.
According to research, the updated fan patch available through Steam has removed practically all the bugs in G2Ren, and improved UI functionality somewhat.
However, I don't think it's possible to build up a castle and town from scratch with citizens in G2 (or G1 for that matter). So not that great for my purpose.
Gus,
Just buy the Stronghold Collection http://store.steampowered.com/app/901735/
Everything after that is worse. Stronghold Legends in the pack is also meh.
Crusader Extreme (HD) is the game to play in that pack. Don't worry about it being "Extreme", that's just marketing fluff mainly meaning the unit count limit for maps has increased. I'm double-checking with an install on my 'work' system this morning, but I think it has all the content of CrusaderHD.
Thank you Pratt. I can't believe how many titles and packs are available. And I stay away from EXTREME anything - although I do read EXTREME in the voice of Duffman, every time.
Ooh there's a Vlad Dracul campaign in that pack you posted!! Will buy later fo' sho'...9.99 is solid.
It is early access - veil of crows that is.
^Yep. Seems solid and is updated weekly or even more offen but it is not quite there yet according to a lot of players.
I just noticed that
Legends has a Steam edition now (that's the one with the Dracula vampire campaign btw), which apparently helps it out to the point where the only real problems are clunky gfx optimization and multiplayer instability. The general opinion still seems to be that SH2 is still the best 3D version of the game, and that CrusaderXHD is still the best version of the game.
Extreme in this case doesn't mean everything runs around fast, btw. ;)
Here's a nice video of gameplay from versions of the game from 2001 to 2014. Stronghold 1 HD starts at around 12:00 mark
Be aware that the Stronghold games are very, um, pre-formation RTSes. You can group blobs of troops, and they will blob around, and blob around in vague formation settings but they're still blobbing.
The ones based on the first engine (S1HD and SCXHD in your case) are isometric top-down 2D sprite fests. So there are hard limits how far you can zoom in (and out for that matter, although the HD versions help somewhat with that).
That is some full service there, Pratt, thank you.
And in readin up on Stronghold 2 on Metacritic, the game gets shellacked for the MP and graphics issues you mention above...but most of those reviews are from 10+ years ago.
Still...Dracula! And I aint afraid of no blobs. I still like the sprites in old TW games, Age of Kings, etc.
I'm honestly looking forward to the new Steam version of SH2.
Someone upthread mentioned Kingdoms and Castles, which I didn't know until just now would be released in July. It will also be on Steam. Naturally I expect it to be a buggy mess (and probably early access beta, because that's how things are done today). But it does look quite of the sort of project I'm thinking of, if more cartoony than I was thinking.
Yeah way too cartoony for me.
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 29, 2017, 03:46:35 PM
...the whole rationale for Forest Village is to pick up on Banished, evidently abandoned by its dev....
I find it hard to believe that
Banished (http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/) has been abandoned by its developer since there was a 12 June 2017 news update on the Shining Rock Software website. The sole review of
Life is Feudal: Forest Village on Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/life-is-feudal-forest-village) states:
"It's a doppelganger of Banished - the same ideas, but with less polish and oversimplified."As for the topic of this thread, the
Stronghold games are nice looking, but bear in mind that they are castle defense games and not castle building sims. Dated as it may be, I still have fond memories of the original
Castles (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/castles), which can be purchased as part of a 2-pack along with its successor from GOG.com (https://www.gog.com/game/castles_castles_2).
For the record: my LiF mention wasnt about Forest Village, but the 'Your Own' prequel-thingy to the full MMO LiF.
Greybriar are you sure? I thought construction was a big part of Stronghold.
They are definitely castle design and building sims. You start with a small central keep, and build out walls and things from there. If you put wall pieces out wrong, they'll collapse, too.
I'm glad to hear Banished devs haven't abandoned the game, btw. I haven't seen a full comparison of features between the two, only that Steam users for Forest Village (which has a Life is Feudal title but not the same dev team) routinely regard it as having more features.
Testing this morning indicates that Crusader Extreme (HD) does in fact need Crusader installed, but installing Extreme will also install Crusader. They'll run from different Steam points evidently -- launching Extreme only brings up new maps and skirmish and map designer, not the campaign(s) from the original game.
EXTREME
Quote from: Gusington on June 30, 2017, 09:59:15 AM
Greybriar are you sure? I thought construction was a big part of Stronghold.
Yes, I'm sure. Check out this review (http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/game.php?name=Stronghold%20(2001)):
Stronghold (2001)
"This game didn't quite sit right with me to start with, I'll admit.
The problem is that, while you use troops and build fortifications and set up resource-gathering chains and so on, making it looks very much like a real-time-strategy game, Stronghold is not a real-time-strategy game.
It is a castle-defence game.
The differences are extreme, but because most gamers will have an instinct about how to play RTSs by now, you'll probably spend some time getting taken apart by the PC before you manage to start winning.
Let me just give you a rundown of how defending a big stone castle in the Middle Ages worked. Two words:
Tank. Rush.
That's really all the tactics the enemy have, be it historically, or in the game. They throw a HUGE mass of troops at your defensive position, set up a couple of immense rock-lobbers and all you can do is hope that your archers kill them all before they breach your walls. If your walls are breached, you hope and pray and cry that you've got enough troops to fight off the attackers so that they need to retreat and you can mend the breach. If the walls are breached and your troops start to falter: You. Are. Finished.
Medieval warfare was not nice, was not healthy, and generally didn't involve the taking of prisoners other than for the purposes of raping and/or casual torture for the amusement of the more sick-minded of the troops.
Your defenses, other than the obvious examples of archers, crossbowmen include men with pointy sticks, who will be killed in large quantities, men with spiky metal balls attached to chains, who actually get to wear armor, and so might actually last a second or three and swordsmen, who get to wear huge, heavy suits of full-plate armor so they can be easily riddled with crossbow bolts as they trudge towards the castle. The spearmen are mainly useful for destroying the siege-ladders which runners will prop up against your walls in order to allow the invading forces a way in to the castle walls.
Apart from the fighting units, you can build traps, such as spikepits, flaming pitch-ditches and moats to slow down and kill the enemy forces. While the game features an intricate and complex chain of supply, with four types of food-supply, two building materials and a satisfyingly detailed model of your citizens' happiness levels, this is only there to keep you supplied with food, gold, weapons and warm bodies with which to defend, build and repair your Stronghold.
Stronghold is a game that can leave you mentally exhausted after playing a level, desperately shoring up defenses, fending off invaders deploying troops and managing the vast supply system that holds the whole thing together. It isn't a pleasant game, but it's an immensely satisfying one, and it has an occaisional moment of welcome humour. If you fancy a challenge, put this one at the top of your list.
Reviewed by: Frosty840"But it's not really a point worth quibbling over.
Castles of Mad King Ludwig?
http://www.mobilecastles.com/ (http://www.mobilecastles.com/)
Stronghold is certainly as much of a castle defense game as Interplay's Castles series (which I also played back in the day); in effect it's an upgraded expansion of those games, except without the occasional RPG elements.
I don't understand the point about it not being a castle building sim, though. I've actually played Stronghold, a lot; beat the first game's campaign, and played around on SH2 more than once back in the day (although not extensively). You generally don't start with a castle, so if you're going to defend your castle you need to build a castle, and you can't just throw that up: you have to build a town from scratch first, with economies. Some of it ideally inside the eventual walls, some of it necessarily outside.
That said, maybe it's better to call it a walled-town sim. The castle itself doesn't have rooms per se (although I recall SH2 being more detailed about that.) You're building an extensive series of fortified walls and defensive emplacements around your central keep (which is basically two rooms, top and bottom floor, where the new immigrants spawn from and where you leader retreats to during a successful siege for his final defense.) In that sense, both the Stronghold games and, let's say, Imperium Romanum, are both "castle defense" games.
Except one of them ends up with the player managing an economy to build something that looks and functions a lot more like a castle. ::) (Note: not IR, although that's a great game, too, and actually quite a lot like what I'm looking to show the nieces.)
The word 'build' is used in the review that Greybriar posted above...anyway, as long as its EXTREME!1! I'm happy.
Threw it into the Steam cart.
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 30, 2017, 04:28:46 PM
Stronghold is certainly as much of a castle defense game as Interplay's Castles series (which I also played back in the day); in effect it's an upgraded expansion of those games, except without the occasional RPG elements.
I don't understand the point about it not being a castle building sim, though. I've actually played Stronghold, a lot; beat the first game's campaign, and played around on SH2 more than once back in the day (although not extensively). You generally don't start with a castle, so if you're going to defend your castle you need to build a castle, and you can't just throw that up: you have to build a town from scratch first, with economies. Some of it ideally inside the eventual walls, some of it necessarily outside.
That said, maybe it's better to call it a walled-town sim. The castle itself doesn't have rooms per se (although I recall SH2 being more detailed about that.) You're building an extensive series of fortified walls and defensive emplacements around your central keep (which is basically two rooms, top and bottom floor, where the new immigrants spawn from and where you leader retreats to during a successful siege for his final defense.) In that sense, both the Stronghold games and, let's say, Imperium Romanum, are both "castle defense" games.
Except one of them ends up with the player managing an economy to build something that looks and functions a lot more like a castle. ::) (Note: not IR, although that's a great game, too, and actually quite a lot like what I'm looking to show the nieces.)
I'd say it's a castle design sim more than a castle building sim. You don't tell your builders where to build and then they go there and build it gradually as in the old Castles games ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_(video_game) ), but instead you plop down a wall or a gatehouse or a tower or whatever and it's instantly there. You DO have to have enough stone and wood to build it, but the actual building isn't modeled.
Glen -- true, although in that sense Imperium Romanum would be more of a "building" sim, since builders (ahem, slaves actually) do go out and build the fortifications (and other buildings).
Has anyone tried Medieval Engineers (http://store.steampowered.com/app/346360/Medieval_Engineers__Deluxe/)? It's still in Early Access on Steam and I generally avoid those, but it's on sale for 40% off ($11.99 U.S.) and would at least be something of a castle building sim.
Quote from: Greybriar on July 03, 2017, 11:03:25 AM
Has anyone tried Medieval Engineers (http://store.steampowered.com/app/346360/Medieval_Engineers__Deluxe/)? It's still in Early Access on Steam and I generally avoid those, but it's on sale for 40% off ($11.99 U.S.) and would at least be something of a castle building sim.
I recommended this at the beginning of this thread. Its good, but it did not grab me like Space Engineers did.
I decided to wait on buying MediEngineers, because the animals and bots have been taken out for a while until they can be adjusted to work with the new "planet" shape. It doesn't seem to be possible to use flat maps (and thus animals and bots) anymore?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 03, 2017, 11:06:44 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on July 03, 2017, 11:03:25 AM
Has anyone tried Medieval Engineers (http://store.steampowered.com/app/346360/Medieval_Engineers__Deluxe/)? It's still in Early Access on Steam and I generally avoid those, but it's on sale for 40% off ($11.99 U.S.) and would at least be something of a castle building sim.
I recommended this at the beginning of this thread. Its good, but it did not grab me like Space Engineers did.
Oops! Sorry, I missed the posts about
Medieval Engineers. :P
Just bought the Stronghold collection and I am installing Stronghold Legends and Stronghold 2 according to Pratt's specific instructions, above.
EDIT: ...and Stronghold EXTREME HD
:)
If the idea is to literally just build a castle and "vintage" isn't a problem, you could check out Castles I and II.
IIRC, there are no buildings within the castle you build, but you can build the actual castle.
I don't remember if the Lords of the Realm II Siege Pack allowed you to build castles in an editor, but that might be a bit primitive as well.
I think I've got Cas1&2 on GoG or somewhere. But I think they'd want to see a township.
This looks interesting from a more Da Vinci like angle of tearing them down instead of building them up http://store.steampowered.com/app/346010/Besiege/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/346010/Besiege/)
^almost bought that during the Steam sale...
Was "Kingdoms" mentioned upthread? Because dang, even for early access that looks very doable, especially with the editor: I can set up situations and let the world go to town (so to speak) while I wander around doing things.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/409590/
Are you guys following medieval kingdom wars? It seems to be primarily a siege game but will take a year more to be out of early access.
Quote from: Destraex on July 15, 2017, 06:43:44 PM
Are you guys following medieval kingdom wars? It seems to be primarily a siege game but will take a year more to be out of early access.
No but it looks like it might eventually have potential.
I've been following it, but still too early access for me.
Then again, Kingdoms features npcs simply ghosting through all items on the map, so... ::)
I agree. I grabbed it and it's graphics are very sub par compared to the trailer. I don't know if you can build castles at all either.
A game called Kingdoms & Castles will be released on 20 July, I wishlisted it seems like Stronghold games with blocky graphics, but hope for better gameplay:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/569480
That doesn't look half bad!
I've been waiting on this, too.
And you didn't say anything!
I had no idea at the time when it would even release, so I didn't bother mentioning it.
The only time here you haven't mentioned something!
I am familiarizing myself with restraint.
I like to wave at it as I pass by. :peace:
That's more like it.
Quote from: Raied on July 17, 2017, 11:42:57 PM
A game called Kingdoms & Castles will be released on 20 July, I wishlisted it seems like Stronghold games with blocky graphics, but hope for better gameplay:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/569480
Kingdoms & Castles has been released... GOG has it for $9.99, haven't checked Steam yet. Any early impressions?
Got it on my radar after checking out that above link.
Nope, still at work, will impress later.
You got it?
Nope, still at work, etc.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 20, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
Nope, still at work, will impress later.
Work??? What a disgusting habit!
Ha yeah really.
Its a cute little time waster...Hard to consider it a "castle building sim" though.
Well, it kind of is in its later stages, like Stronghold. Much later than Stronghold I'd say. Keeping in mind that, like Stronghold, its notion of "Castle" doesn't involve one increasingly larger fortified building, but rather an increasingly fortified town.
Nowhere near as detailed as the Stronghold series (or other town builders like the various versions of Caesar/Imperium/Rome), but I blew a few hours on it tonight -- past my early-work bedtime, actually! :-[ Despite being nearly a game-month into the game, I have not built even one wall yet. This may have to change as before I saved for the night I just plomped down my first treasure house. I've been visited by a dragon in the first few days who flew around and roared but decided we were too small to bother with at the time I guess. Once I start gathering gold in the treasure room, I figure I can expect raiders to start showing up. And I have no army. At all. Or walls.
This just popped up on my Steam discovery queue today.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/619430/World_of_Castles/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/619430/World_of_Castles/)
Oh thanks I dont know why steam doesn't show me those games I may be interested in,
The game looks good I will keep an eye on it.
Well look at that...thanks SDR.
Suuuuuuper Early Access, basically still a mid-level alpha. Or early-mid.
But I'll wishlist it. O0
^I did too.
Quote from: Raied on September 17, 2017, 02:45:56 AM
Oh thanks I dont know why steam doesn't show me those games I may be interested in,
The game looks good I will keep an eye on it.
For all of the things that Steam does well, showcasing games that interest me is not one of them.
World of Castles is getting pretty good reviews even though as Jason mentioned its clearly around a alpha state and, I believe{?} I read somewhere there will be a free demo available in the next week or so.
Also the Steam remastered edition of Stronghold will be out in about 2 weeks, its supposed to have updated graphics, new maps and they added back in multiplayer.