On my phone so can't link but I just read a couple of blog posts on the new Total War Sagas series soon to come from Creative Assembly. They are more tightly focused on specific geographic areas or more specific historical eras. The posts and marketing material use Fall of the Samurai as an example of what this new series will look like. The first entry for Total War Sagas will be set in the post Roman world and (I think) will use the Total War: Attila map. If these new games are anything like Fall of the Samurai, this will be an excellent series.
Quote from: Gusington on July 05, 2017, 01:01:34 PM
On my phone so can't link but I just read a couple of blog posts on the new Total War Sagas series soon to come from Creative Assembly. They are more tightly focused on specific geographic areas or more specific historical eras. The posts and marketing material use Fall of the Samurai as an example of what this new series will look like. The first entry for Total War Sagas will be set in the post Roman world and (I think) will use the Total War: Attila map. If these new games are anything like Fall of the Samurai, this will be an excellent series.
Sounds alright to me. As long as the map & content is large enough.
But didn't they already do one of these for Post-Roman era using
Attila? i.e. Charlemagne?
Are your loins moist, Gus?
Free flowing.
I hope you're not in a meeting.
Of course! Most of my activity occurs on these boards during these stupid meetings. Only way to stay awake with healthy brain function.
Yeah, I saw that this morning. I hope it's good news. Fall of the Samurai was great not because it was smaller than Shogun 2. It was great because it was done right. Something that slipped a little bit in Rome 2 in my opinion. I thought a 'Saga' was something that wasn't necessarily true. I hope this doesn't mean the same for CA's big announcement. 8)
It just doesn't get better than Fall of the Samurai IMHO. Using that game as a template is a great move.
Quote from: Gusington on July 05, 2017, 02:00:16 PM
It just doesn't get better than Fall of the Samurai IMHO. Using that game as a template is a great move.
I agree. I'm playing Total Warhammer at the moment and gosh, I really miss anything even vaguely resembling Fall of the Samurai.
Sagas, eh? I could suggest a few foci: Fulk Nerra, William the Conqueror, Any Angevin, Henri the IV, Anything in the 30-years-war done with some kind of glance at reality, etc. Also of course -- the 80-years war done with a few fantasy elements (infernal machines etc.)
^You should work for CA.
Quote from: Gusington on July 05, 2017, 08:09:21 PM
^You should work for CA.
I'll finally make that mod I've always dreamed of....I was thinking -- ya know -- the whole warhammer thing (aside from some nice glances at some very good Jack Vance fantasies) is like a bad Mannerist nightmare view of the 30-years-war. The same garish colors, overdone this-and that -- total business everywhere at all levels, crap after crap after crap on top of crap -- just as if the world of say 1570 had a nightmare about the 1630s. Its true that the model of the Vampires they have in mind died in 1610...BUT...Close enough...so if they can manage that, then the should be able to take a decent shot at some segment of some petty dynastic sub-plot in the 30-years war cauldron. You could even somehow fit in the Protestant thing about jousting in full armor and how it would kill you on a hot day if followed by too much beer etc. etc.
I agree - and that's why I am thinking their next historical title in 'an era they haven't covered before' will be Renaissance: Total War.
Playing Age of Charlemagne, if I pretend hard enough, I can make believe I'm playing Medieval Total War 2 updated. It's very close. If this is their new direction, I like it. If not..... we'll see.
Soon I am going to kick it old school and play thr Medieval 2 Crusades campaign again.
Redownloading Shogun 2 now. I love FOTS, but ROTS was marginally....pointless
Is total war sagas a mobile phone app?
Quote from: Destraex on July 06, 2017, 05:07:49 AM
Is total war sagas a mobile phone app?
Nope. They're most likely limited standalones based on existing titles. Which could have been a DLC instead.
I was a little disappointed with Rise of the Samurai too. Nothing game-breaking but just not that much fun for me. I miss Medieval 2 TW. I almost broke-down and bought it during the sale but I don't got no time now for me games. ARGGGG! :arr:
Quote from: Nefaro on July 05, 2017, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Gusington on July 05, 2017, 01:01:34 PM
On my phone so can't link but I just read a couple of blog posts on the new Total War Sagas series soon to come from Creative Assembly. They are more tightly focused on specific geographic areas or more specific historical eras. The posts and marketing material use Fall of the Samurai as an example of what this new series will look like. The first entry for Total War Sagas will be set in the post Roman world and (I think) will use the Total War: Attila map. If these new games are anything like Fall of the Samurai, this will be an excellent series.
Sounds alright to me. As long as the map & content is large enough.
But didn't they already do one of these for Post-Roman era using Attila? i.e. Charlemagne?
In terms of historical content, you could argue that they haven't even done Attila yet since recent studies (I guess in the context of what game designers seem to read or imagine that everyone already knows -- anything after 1850 would be a recent study) suggest:
1) the barbarians were consolidating their agricultural base and mobilizing more of their people as warriors -- ie the basic subsistance level was improving -- not declining -- a process that went on clear until the late middle ages
2) Attila was more a transitory Roman pawn than a devastating force
3) the end of Attila's confederation triggered the final collapse of the Western Empire since the Romans could no longer use the Huns to keep the other -- more powerful -- barbarian kingdoms in line
So the Attila game is as much a fantasy game as Warhammer.
ok got time to read the article.
It seems like an excuse to milk the engine with all the DLC they can pack in. Cannot say I am disappointed in the choice. But because I am not a fan of the current engine. I guess I am disappointed we will not be seeing a brand new "revolutionary" engine change that comes with an entirely new game soon.
Ok so I am happy with the direction. That is small focussed spin offs fall of the samurai. Also a new period being worked on for a major title. But fix the damned engine so I don't feel like I am looking at shimmering black mirages. Loaded up Rome again and boy does it look better than warhammer tw.
Quote from: Destraex on July 06, 2017, 07:02:13 PM
Loaded up Rome again and boy does it look better than warhammer tw.
So true. The most stunning thing about warhammer is what a visual mess it is. Layers and layers of pulsating glop. If I had not played various total war games before, I would really be lost in all the busy business stacked up all over the place.
I am not as excited for TW Sagas as I am for the new historical title. What I would really like to see is a Total War: Pike & Shot kind of title. Since they said it's an era they haven't visited before I figure it will be either P&S or Victorian era. I think the latter is less likely, but I would like in none the less. I've been playing M2TW lately, it still holds my attention very well. Admittedly I would LOVE to see a Medieval 3 or even Empire 2, but that is not to be anytime soon.
Funny I have heard people say that Warhammer TW looks fantastic.
Quote from: Gusington on July 06, 2017, 07:49:47 PM
Funny I have heard people say that Warhammer TW looks fantastic.
A matter of taste, no doubt, but to me it seems jam-packed with stuff that is jam-packed with stuff that is jam-packed with stuff that is all doing something -- mostly exuding pulsating stuff that looks a lot like all the other pulsating stuff. So you get a lot of pulsating stuff and its always pulsating. Which is kind of fun -- except that under all those
pulsating things, seemed like a watered-down version of a barely average Total War game without nearly as much actually going on as in say Rome II -- where even as a Persian -- you had to be on your toes!
I hear you I have to be in the mood for stuff.
Gus it does look good. IF you zoom right in and wait for the mess to clear.
Zoomed out it still looks ok but is very messy. Zoomed further and it's a mess.
Battles are defo a mess, with no real way to control the fight with formations or manoever other than clicking like crazy and seeing your men go for all in brawls.
Unless of course you just let your men stand there and go get a coffee, come back to see if they won.
Warhammer is just too busy and fast for my tastes. But I will keep trying.
Last night, a belgian mate took on 2 of my friends. He lost 64 men as the vampire counts and they lost, well here is the quote this morning from our discord channel:
"sorry guys that was a bit unfair fight
64 unit loss for vampires VS 3300+ unit loss for empire+bretonnia"
Now that sort of thing is achieved by magic and monsters as well as heroes. The standard units without any veterancy don't really stand up. I guess that like fantasy novels and stories, I keep waiting for the average man or hidden noble to come forth and do amazing things. But the game does not really cater for that. I am missing something I guess. Have to use magic and power ups for the win rather than tactics in this game.
I still haven't fired up my copy of Warhammer.
I played a game last night with some gents who were trying to get me to like the game. Check out this mess and try to figure out what is going on.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4229/34995779353_edca518a1d_o.jpg)
Damn, that looks like the crowd ahead of me in line to buy Lotto at the Circle K.
Yeah. It's hectic trying to figure out what is going on in multiplayer while things happen at a million miles a minute.
Quote from: Gusington on July 07, 2017, 07:22:15 PM
I hear you I have to be in the mood for stuff.
Some of the stuff is pretty fun. I'm playing the Empire on Easy with 5 or 6 pro-Imperial mods (Gyrocopters, more damage by firearms and artillery etc.) and there are some things I find moderately charming: WitchHunters as assassins for example. I like how "annoying" Bretonnian regions and the Dwarves all try to be on the diplomatic circuits.
Moreover, EverReady the EverReady, Archon of Chaos, seems to have gotten some new batteries and is "Returning" so I hope tanks, artillery and rifled muskets are enough to stop all the whizz-bangs in his arsenal. On thing is for sure: their stuff glows and pulsates more than mind does...but with enough mods all things are possible.
Gyrocopters you say...
Quote from: Destraex on July 08, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
I played a game last night with some gents who were trying to get me to like the game. Check out this mess and try to figure out what is going on.
All the Undead units are attacking a single small enemy artillery unit.
Probably trying to finish off one of the last enemy units on the map, after being given the order to all dogpile it. *shrug*
Doesn't look much different than any other Total War version, in the same situation. Except you have all the color highlights active - holding down the Space Bar to get more such information, iirc.
I've turned most of those highlights off, in the option window for them, as I've done in previous TWs. TW:W just has more to choose from, but you don't need any of them on.
Nefaro are you saying that in previous total war games units did not keep formation in close combat either?
I agree that the more recent ones (since shogun2 and rome2) are like this. But I feel this one is even more so.
I turned on the icons with space bar which is just on the default settings, to try to figure out what was going on, because that is what it is there fore. It's supposed to make things clearer.
The whole battle was pretty much like this. Troops took any melee as an opportunity to leave their formation and use a free formation deciding to leave gaps in the line. By wrapping themselves around the enemy unit. If you order an attack the troops fall out of formation. Do you know a way to stop this and march into combat in good order?
Nefaro do you know where I can cycle through formations for groups or individual units for warhammer? So I can move forward in good order without the need for micro.
I don't think it was so easy in earlier total war games to throw so many units into the same melee at once. If you did they would sort of be blocked by the other units and had to wait.
Destraex , you may need this if you want to bring back TW-style formations. Take note it alters a lot of gameplay.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834440120
I've done some reading on the topic and the micro formations were not included because they were not in the table top game ( tactics and weapons advantage abstracted by modifiers). So likewise, in TW:WH the bonuses are built-in and there are no specific shield wall or spear wall, wedge orders. Ideally the pixel troops will actually visually perform tactics automatically but I guess they just turn into melee blobs unlike in previous titles.
For group moves, select the group then use arrow keys to set destination. Alt+arrow keys to rotate.
Also play around with guard mode and see if it helps keeping formation. I used that a lot as dwarves.
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2017, 01:27:12 PM
Gyrocopters you say...
I think in the vanilla game only dwarves get the gyrocopters, but in the mess of pro-Imperial mods I'm using, the Empire also gets gyrocopters.
Thanks Jomni. But because friends are kinda teaching me and want to play to VS other people. Mods that affect gameplay are not really something I can apply.
I am afraid of what I will find when I begin to check out mods. I plan on playing the first game vanilla for sanity's sake.
Quote from: Destraex on July 09, 2017, 06:10:01 PM
Nefaro are you saying that in previous total war games units did not keep formation in close combat either?
I agree that the more recent ones (since shogun2 and rome2) are like this. But I feel this one is even more so.
I turned on the icons with space bar which is just on the default settings, to try to figure out what was going on, because that is what it is there fore. It's supposed to make things clearer.
The whole battle was pretty much like this. Troops took any melee as an opportunity to leave their formation and use a free formation deciding to leave gaps in the line. By wrapping themselves around the enemy unit. If you order an attack the troops fall out of formation. Do you know a way to stop this and march into combat in good order?
Nefaro do you know where I can cycle through formations for groups or individual units for warhammer? So I can move forward in good order without the need for micro.
I don't think it was so easy in earlier total war games to throw so many units into the same melee at once. If you did they would sort of be blocked by the other units and had to wait.
Yes, previous TW troops would "wrap around" like that, to varying degrees. More so the skirmish & mob type formations. There are obviously more of those present in TW:W, but it's not really anything new to the series. They all tend to go that direction when there's a big multi-unit pile up in one place. I think they eventually improved phalanx cohesion in TW: Rome 2, for a best case scenario, but that's as good as it gets.
They've added better overall army handling in recent TWs. IIRC, you can find these special input methods listed in the Options screen somewhere. I don't recall the name, but there's a page in the Controls (I think that's it) which specifies how to handle your army while keeping them in your single big formation. Between commands like Ctrl+G (?) to toggle your army to hold it's current formation, and various click+drag commands to select where they are going, and whether you want the whole line to rotate when they arrive at the ordered point. Just a little reading & remembering the commands listed there.
As for learning TW, I absolutely suggest avoiding multi-player with it. Run the single-player campaign. You can pause & issue orders whenever you want, in single-player, and I think the campaign layer is really what makes the TW series enjoyable. The multi-player just looks like a hyper click-fest, with a bunch over competitive players trying to min-max their army point allotment to exploitative degrees over others.
Do single-player. It will still be a challenge but you'll find it more enjoyable, easier to learn, and less of a click-fest with some Pause jockeying. ;) I never really thought of TW as a good multi-player system anyway.
EDIT: While doing single-player campaigns, the UI makes it easy to learn. Nearly everything has a tooltip pop-up describing stats, and what buttons do. :bd:
Single Player I had done. Got half way through the imperial campaign and then decided the grind was too much. I had unlocked all the units for the empire and their was not reason to keep repeating the same battles. Started a Bretonnian campaign but could not get into the groove.
Then recently a bunch of mates got it on special and we have one real expert who has been playing competitive multiplayer all along. He has been trying to get us all into the game.
For this I need some absolute values on what stats stack with what and what the final values are for attack/defence... what shields do exactly. You know, you can fumble your way through single player vs the AI, but you really have to know your stuff for multi. I don't know warhammer lore or stats well enough for that. I would need to consider whether I even wanted to learn that much about it.
As for speed and mods, with multiplayer your hands are tied with these. You have to play at the developers default speeds and without mods.
For me, the wrap around effect is huge compared to the total war games I liked in the past. Maybe the effect is the same in attila and rome. But before this I remember the wrap around being minimal, say for rome1, med 2 and empire/napoleon. These titles for me were the hey day of total war. Formations could not brawl up so much that they should not be able to be effective anymore. You could not engage with for example, all those units in the screenshot at once. It was not a simple matter of spam, but positioning. Units did not break formation or break quickly.