I've been kind of spinning my wheels looking for something to dig my teeth into lately. I have been dabbling with immersing myself in WW2 Europe- I don't know too much about the European theater actually. I've always been far more fascinated with the Pacific. I've done some reading and I'm sort of into it, but I keep finding myself getting bored with the subject. It's hard to explain. I finished about 3/4 of Stephen Ambrose's excellent book D-Day and I'm about 20% through Hitler's Preemptive War about the battle for Norway. I really want a meaty book on Stalingrad (I started Thunder in the East, and it's interesting but a bit zoomed out for what I'm looking for) to complement my Red Orchestra gaming.
Anyway, I find my interest waning already on the topic and I want to go back to my nice safe spot with the Pacific.
The thing is, I've read a lot on the Pacific and while I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I don't need to start from the beginning anymore either. I've actually read most of the books I own on the subject, and I've played most of the games I own on it as well. Still, I think I will keep it in my hip pocket just in case.
So then I started dabbling in Korea. I read about 35% of The Coldest Winter, and if there is a more boring book about the Korean War I haven't read it yet. I mean, great cover but man the book just sucks. A much, much better book is This Kind of War and I'm about 25% through that and thoroughly enjoying it. Of course, the only Korean War game I own is Mig Alley, and it's a bit...dated now.
So, once again, I started reading Terrible Swift Sword. I picked up Canton's trilogy, as well as his Army of the Potomac trilogy back in Norfolk at a used book store and I still haven't read them. But I got to thinking about it. I'm not a novice of the ACW; I've read Battlecry of Freedom twice, all of Sears' battle books, and a handful of others, and I still have all of Canton and most of Foote to get through. And then I started thinking about my gaming collection...I have 2nd Manassas and Scourge of War, the Tiller ACW series from Matrix, HPS Gettysburg, AACW, and Forge of Freedom. I really haven't given any of these games a proper run through yet.
I guess maybe it's time to get into the ACW in a big way. I reinstalled AACW tonight on my new computer and I think I might just really try to wrap my head around it this time. And when I get bored of grand strategy I can zoom in to Manassas, Gettysburg, or Antietam; and when RTS starts to get old I can go all hex and counter with Tiller. Oh, and I have at least 3 boardgames on the subject as well, all unpunched. Yep, I think it's time to dig in.
The problem, with me, is that I have a hard time spreading my "warfare interest of the day" around. Like many of you, I like to be reading about whatever I'm playing. Well, I can't read everything and I can't play every game I want to play. Gotta focus somewhere.
Self pimping a bit here, but I did a similar knuckle down session with AACW a while back, it might help ease you into the thing.
It follows the ten turn battle of Shiloh.
http://sugarfreegamer.com/?page_id=1422 (http://sugarfreegamer.com/?page_id=1422)
Not sure whether you've read The Killer Angels, but it was a fascinating book, that was the source inspiration for the movie Gettysburg. The audiobook was so much better for me, because of the accents, to hear the story in the proper American accents from both sides was simply divine.
Not sure whether it's on over the pond, but Ridley Scott's rendition of Gettysburg is on this weekend. Worth a watch to get you in the mood.
http://www.history.com/shows/gettysburg#
I have to admit, I am a big amercial civil war fan and was very excited when this game was first announced. I remember just sitting there waiting for the game to be released and it was an instant purchase for me. A strategic ACW game come true. However, sadly I could never actually get into it. Could never figure out what my mental block was. This should have been THE game for me, but nothing ever clicked. Soon it just started gathering dust and I moved on. I have also tried all the other ACW games like forge of freedom (instant buy) and War Between the States (was even beta tester) and none of them clicked either.
So it must just be me but I am still looking for the holy grail that will actually click with me:(
I haven't played any ACW games in a while but I own Scourge of War Gettysburg and Forge of Freedom. I really enjoyed both of those games. Maybe I should get back into them....
Slightly OT, but I have to ask. What do Americans find so interesting/fascinating about the ACW? I mean wasn't one of, if not THE, darkest periods in American history? I'm just surprised it isn't swept under the rug and forgotten. But maybe that's because I'm an outsider. Just curious.... :)
Quote from: Barthheart on June 29, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Slightly OT, but I have to ask. What do Americans find so interesting/fascinating about the ACW? I mean wasn't one of, if not THE, darkest periods in American history? I'm just surprised it isn't swept under the rug and forgotten. But maybe that's because I'm an outsider. Just curious.... :)
Can't speak for everyone...but a couple of reasons I enjoy the topic.
1) Taught in school so sparks my interest; hundreds of books written on the topic
2) Happened in "our backyard"
3) The lore of brother vs brother, family versus family
4) The stories and different personalities of the people involved with the conflict
etc.
To me it is no different in the fact that I don't know much about or understand the conflicts that happened in Europe and other parts of the world...just very familiar with the subject matter and want to be able to play it out. I do get your point though about it being a dark time, especially with americans against americans, but I really never thought of it that way.
Politically and philosophically you have it all, from states rights to how dare they secede.
Wargame wise, it was the beginning of mechanized warfare. Repeating rifles, Gatling guns, ironclads...
Supply problems for the South, leadership problems for the North.
For me, it is a huge war (4 years) between two roughly equal armies. There were large numbers of big battles in a time period where there were relatively few large wars. (1840-1880)Franco Prussian, Ausso Prussian, Italian wars and Crimea).
As a son of the South I've always had a soft-spot in my heart for the Confederacy though I know that's increasingly polictically incorrect. Just look at, "Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter". Who knew the confederates were really all vampires? The whole lost cause battle against overwhelming strength is what southerners consider honor to be all about. I hear Ralph Peters new book, Cain At Gettysburg, is excellent. Anybody read it? I too have always wanted a really good ACW game to get lost in but for now a great book will do.
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 29, 2012, 08:51:46 AM
As a son of the South I've always had a soft-spot in my heart for the Confederacy though I know that's increasingly polictically incorrect. Just look at, "Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter". Who knew the confederates were really all vampires? The whole lost cause battle against overwhelming strength is what southerners consider honor to be all about. I hear Ralph Peters new book, Cain At Gettysburg, is excellent. Anybody read it? I too have always wanted a really good ACW game to get lost in but for now a great book will do.
Recently started the Cain book, so far very good and descriptive. Can only assume it will continue to be a very good read. saw in many other places the book getting rave reviews.
And for people who want a blast from the past, the old North and South game. Of course you have to be in the mood for some light-hearted civil war:)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Bluecoats-North-South-Download/dp/B00893LJQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340978455&sr=8-1&keywords=north+and+south+game
Cain at Gettysburg is tremendous...great book
Quote from: Barthheart on June 29, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Slightly OT, but I have to ask. What do Americans find so interesting/fascinating about the ACW? I mean wasn't one of, if not THE, darkest periods in American history? I'm just surprised it isn't swept under the rug and forgotten. But maybe that's because I'm an outsider. Just curious.... :)
Perhaps it is because essentially everyone's ancestors in the United States during that period were a part of the American Civil War. As time goes on it may fade into obscurity, but there are many, many individuals of all types who will be remembered for the roles they played during that period in U.S. history--Robert E. Lee, U.S. Grant, J.P. Morgan, William Quantrill, John Wilkes Booth, John Brown...the list goes on and on. The dramatic changes to the United States as a result of its civil war have been the subject of countless books over the past 150 years and will probably be studied by scholars for generations to come.
Thanks to all that answered my question. 8)
Quote from: Barthheart on June 29, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Slightly OT, but I have to ask. What do Americans find so interesting/fascinating about the ACW? I mean wasn't one of, if not THE, darkest periods in American history? I'm just surprised it isn't swept under the rug and forgotten. But maybe that's because I'm an outsider. Just curious.... :)
Well, of course most of it is swept under the rug and forgotten. It's hard to get a grip on the strangeness of a massive war on a two-thousand-mile inland front and the whole coast from Texas to Virginia. I may stop at Gettysburg on the 149th anneversary of its commencement on the first leg of my vacation. I can reflect on my ancestor in the 1st Texas Regiment who buried his brother there and headed home with a bloody uniform or two (possibly his brother's or possibly his own) that achieved ghostly histories in family attics.
I am looking to take my family to Gettysburg some time this summer.
The battle there coincided with the most fascinating events of the ACW [to me]: the NYC draft riots.
Until very recently the history of NYC during the war was something that was totally swept under the rug. For example I did not know until just a few years ago that NYC almost seceded from the Union because of its tremendously strong ties with the cotton trade. I was obviously not going to learn about that in NYC public schools when I was a kid 25 years ago.
For those who have played Scourge of War, is it really like a Total War game set during the ACW?
Quote from: Gusington on June 29, 2012, 01:29:32 PM
For those who have played Scourge of War, is it really like a Total War game set during the ACW?
I wouldn't say that. No strategic map included, plus I believe the game feels much more "tactivally correct". You can even choose what command levels you want to command (i.e. brigade, divison, corps, etc.). To me the best tactical ACW game out there. But you don't have to listen to me, try the demo and see what it is like:) It is well worth the time!
I don't know if I could handle anything more than a brigade.
Without a campaign map are the scenarios locked together sequentially or somesuch?
I like the idea that I can read about the Bloody Lane at Antietam for instance and with just a day's drive, I can stand at that very spot, as number of the battlefields have been preserved quite well.
^Congrats on your retirement, geezer.
Toonces, if the boardgames that you have are some of The Gamers Civil War Brigade Series of games, I did a number of VASSAL modules for those. See:
www.vassalengine.org/wiki/User:Gjk
I enjoy that series of games and actually just pulled most of those out the other day as my son now has an interest in gaming some of those.
Quote from: Gusington on June 29, 2012, 02:29:46 PM
I don't know if I could handle anything more than a brigade.
Without a campaign map are the scenarios locked together sequentially or somesuch?
Gus, yes, the scenarios are sequentially locked. But, there is a mod to unlock then I believe. Also, once you play a scenario, you can then play it whenever you want. Frankly, I spend most of my time playing "sandbox" games where you choose a map, OOB, command level and whether you are attacking, defending or meeting engagement...think "skirmish"
Also, its not like total war. The AI is good and the movement of troops is slow and deliberate involving the use of couriers. Check out the demo.
I like that the war was fought in our own backyard and I know where all of the places are.
I tried getting into Napoleon's Campaigns (Chandler) for like the third time last weekend and I'm bewildered by all the strange names and places. I remember I was reading a paragraph and I finished a sentence, went back and re-read it again and realized that I had no idea who the three generals and three places mentioned in it were. I don't have that problem with ACW.
Actually, I have to book right here, bookmarked where I stopped:
"After completing Cervoni's destruction, and leaving an adequate cavalry force to protect Genoa, Beaulieu's forces were to fall back on Alessandria, switch to the valley of the Bormida, and advance once more in support of Colli and Argenteau for the coup de grace."
I was like, "HUH?!"
It's ancient, and I found the sequencing odd, but, Civil War Generals 2 was a GREAT play for me.
^See now that's why I like WWII stuff... because I get to learn world geography. Always been a geography buff.
I guess I know. So much of NA geography it never interested me.
As for turning points in Canadian history we have the war of 1812, the Louis Real Rebellion, WWI, WWII, and the FLQ in the '70's. Gots lots of those in history in school... well except the FLQ.. got most of that from my dad who was mobilized with the rest of the armed forces.... :P
Thanks again for all the points of view.
Quote from: Barthheart on June 29, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Slightly OT, but I have to ask. What do Americans find so interesting/fascinating about the ACW? I mean wasn't one of, if not THE, darkest periods in American history? I'm just surprised it isn't swept under the rug and forgotten. But maybe that's because I'm an outsider. Just curious.... :)
And believe it or not ever so often some unlucky soul digs up a civil war mine or artillery shell that still goes boom. As a aside to this, The Civil War also saw the first submarine to successfully sink its target, the 40-foot-long Hunley , which was operated by eight men turning a hand crank attached to her propeller shaft. The Hunley sank and was recovered three times during trial runs before it was successful. On Feb. 16, 1864, under the cover of darkness, the Hunley sank the USS Housatonic off Charleston. Accounts differ as to the reason, but the Hunley sank soon after sinking the Housatonic . It was discovered in May 1995 off the coast of Charleston and was recovered in August 2000.
I watched the team clean this thing out in a television special, they actually found the coin that stopped a bullet carried by
A romantic legend concerning George Dixon and his gold coin has been told for more than a century. Dixon is said to have been given the gold coin by his sweetheart, Queenie Bennett. She asked him to carry it for good luck and as a token of her affection. Dixon kept the coin always with him, and at the Battle of Shiloh it was in his trousers pocket. During the fierce fighting on April 6, 1862, Dixon was struck in the upper thigh by a minié ball. When he examined the wound, he discovered the bullet had struck the coin directly in the center, bending the coin but saving his leg by absorbing much of the impact.
Following the recovery of H. L. Hunley, the story was partially verified by the discovery of the gold coin with Dixon's remains. Forensic anthropologist Diane France was hired to study the recovered skull of Dixon. Reconstructing Dixon's appearance, she found the man in a photograph Queenie Bennett's family had always presumed to be Dixon was not him. The inscription on the coin fails to mention Bennett, but it does confirm that it stopped a bullet at Shiloh. The United States $20 double eagle coin was minted in 1860 and is clearly deformed from the bullet's impact. Both the coin itself and a wound on Dixon's femur were found to have traces of lead. The reverse of the coin is inscribed with four short lines:
Shiloh
April 6, 1862
My life Preserver
G. E. D.
I've been thinking about putting CWC (basically SMG + SMA) back on my laptop while my desktop is in storage. That was my first ACW game and I still think it is a lot of fun.
Quote from: Gusington on June 29, 2012, 01:29:32 PM
For those who have played Scourge of War, is it really like a Total War game set during the ACW?
No. Far Far better. The pace .. the command restrictions.. all of it just blows TW's tactical battles away by miles.
Download the demo.. you can play all of the Tutorial scenarios and check it out.
Do it now! Because it's that awesome.
Someone over at Matrix was discussing the old Frank Hunter ACW game, I forgot all about that one. Actually found the game files at the following link. Even back then then game had a pretty decent map and game concepts. Would love to see this one updated someday. Still runs fine on my win7 machine.
http://www.thurb.com/games/acw/intro.htm
Toonces, strange names and places? You don't find all the French, Spanish and Native American place names strange?
LOL. Touche!
Hey Gus. Not only was NYC heavily involved in the cotton trade but it was also for many years the center of the slave trade with many ships from there and philadelphia I believe importing slaves. Sometime ago a huge slave graveyard was uncovered somewhere in the heart of NYC. I'm sure there are others who've heard this too and probably know alot more about it than I do.
^Yes around 1990 a huge slave cemetery was dug up while laying the foundation for a new building on Broadway, here's a link:
http://www.africanburialground.gov/ABG_History.htm
Not just slaves but African and black people of all types are buried there, in the 100s. The kicker with what you posted above Slash is that slavery was outlawed in New York ~1827, but the trade continued.
Nefaro it's that good eh? How can I not act on that endorsement? DLing Scourge of War demo now...
Make sure you play with couriers for brigade and above!
Quote from: Gusington on July 01, 2012, 11:59:13 AM
Nefaro it's that good eh? How can I not act on that endorsement? DLing Scourge of War demo now...
It's amazing. You gotta run through the tutorials in the demo to get an idea. Hell, run the Brigade and Division ones a couple times to get things down better... before you buy it, of course. ;)
Also.. don't start with using Couriers only. Their big list of specific commands takes a lot of learning to figure out all the quirkiness of the results they give. Just play with default game difficulty options.
Booooooo nefaro ....boooooooo couriers rock. You dont have to go right into issuing written orders for them but at least have them turned on so when you click a unit and order it to move, a courier will be dispatched from your general and will have to deliver the movement order.
I plan on trying all the tutorials soon. They are all open in the demo right?
Quote from: Gusington on July 01, 2012, 06:41:51 PM
I plan on trying all the tutorials soon. They are all open in the demo right?
Yes, that's what is open in the demo. After you purchase, you get the unlock key so you don't need to re-download.
I'm pretty sure there's an update since the last installer version (probably a link for it on their forums).
Quote from: mikeck on July 01, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
Booooooo nefaro ....boooooooo couriers rock. You dont have to go right into issuing written orders for them but at least have them turned on so when you click a unit and order it to move, a courier will be dispatched from your general and will have to deliver the movement order.
The option to use couriers is on by default. No worries. New players can experiment with them all they want. :D
Not sure if there's an option to designate courier use for
everything without actually "writing" the orders in the courier message screen. They don't use couriers for most things if you manually TC (take command) of them and micro-manage.
One of my few complaints about SOW is that the couriers
still don't take very good routes in some situations. While the courier routing has been adjusted a couple times in the past, they just can't seem to find a good middle ground - they either use roads so religiously that they run away from the receiver and off into the blue yonder or even straight into the enemy army. The latest will make them cut across fields, using roads much less, but for the same reason the little automated courier will still run straight through enemy lines without a worry (and be captured). The courier routing still needs to be given some serious avoidance logic and until then you can't count on it unless you practically run your commanding general over and practically deliver the orders himself, after battle is joined. :-\