Splitting from the thread over in #TBT (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=14218.msg543660#msg543660)
The AH version was playable, but always seemed a little predictable, unless you were able to get the minor powers into play to shift things around.
I've heard mixed things, tho more bad than good, about the Avalanche version - GJK can probably weigh in on that one. I did like the graphics updates for the Avalanche version.
The new LNLP version will be interesting to see.
What are your thoughts on the differences, and what would you like to see 'fixed' or tweaked or changed in the upcoming LNLP version?
Is the Avalanche version A3R? I thought is was an updated version of Third Reich. It looks like total eye candy, but I'm sceptical of ordering anything from Avalanche.
Very much looking forward to LnLs new version.
Some edition of R&Fot3R is available on TTS, I noticed. Not A3R (yet).
A3R was still AH I believe. The Avalanche version was John Prados' (original designer of 3R for AH) Third Reich, and has a bucket of dice combat system.
I'm also looking forward to the LnLP version.. or versions... one version is to be a Card Game :o. John Prados is working with LnLP for both versions. Pretty big coup for LnLP.
Interesting fact is that John Prados' Third Reich is not listed on Avalanche Press' website any longer....
Quote from: Barthheart on August 03, 2017, 10:40:38 AM
Interesting fact is that John Prados' Third Reich is not listed on Avalanche Press' website any longer....
I noticed that too.
I think it's been out of print for some time there... which maybe the reason Prados went looking for another publisher...
Great Pacific War is still there though...
Quote from: Barthheart on August 03, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
I think it's been out of print for some time there... which maybe the reason Prados went looking for another publisher...
Great War in the Pacific is still there though...
Yeah, it's still listed on the site (as Very Temporarily Unavailable) but without Prados' name.
This game has more iterations than Gus has special socks :crazy2:
Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and get the GMT version of A3R/Rising Sun. Though it's a long way from making it on P500.
http://www.gmtgames.com/p-644-a-world-at-war-3rd-printing.aspx
Quote from: Barthheart on August 03, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
I think it's been out of print for some time there... which maybe the reason Prados went looking for another publisher...
Great Pacific War is still there though...
Or, they knew the deal w/ him was expiring and b/c he hadn't signed a new one, they let it go.
I own but have never played (for whatever reason) A3R (and correct, still AH at that point).
I enjoy JP3R (Avalanche Press) though it got a very bad rap when first released 1) for it's horribly written rules and 2) because the mounted board that comes with it has a) hexes that are way too small and the board gets very crowded and b) because nobody even noticed that there's an extra hexgrid super-imposed on the map in Eastern Russia before they started to print it (i.e, likely not even proofed). It does feature a BoD (Bucket of Dice) combat resolution system which I don't mind too terribly usually but in this game, infantry hits on a 6 while armor hits on a 5 or 6 and defenders hit on a 5 or 6 with infantry or a 4, 5 or 6 with armor when they roll meaning that you have to roll separate "buckets" for each type of unit participating in the attack/defense. I created a percentile dice system that takes the probabilities of a hit (depending on what you hit with on a d6) and converted it to a percentage which let's you roll just a pair of (percentile) dice vs buckets of d6's. That chart is on BGG for those interested.
Once AP reworked the rules into the 3rd edition and released a "deluxe" map (larger hexes with errata) it suddenly became a very viable gaming option. I also created my own "deluxe" version which I feel is much less busy and offers a cleaner look while making distingishing countries and territories easier. I have that on my dropbox for anybody interested.
As is typical with AP, I think that their counter artwork is some of the best around but the map was always questionable.
AP released a number of variants for the game and you can still find them buried on their website last I checked but you almost need to google your way into it. That offers a lot of replayability though you'll come way off-script for historic WW2 ETO; though that might be rather appealing for many.
If the grand-strategic ETO stuff interests you and you can get a copy of the game at a decent price, I'd definitely recommend it. It is much easier to learn than even classic Third Reich and certainly more so than A3R or the career game AWAW. You'll need either their deluxe or my map though.
It's too bad Avalanche has such poor quality control. They have some great looking games, but I don't trust them on the QA side.
The series games aren't bad once they get 2-3 games out and iron out the rules' wrinkles
The counter art is usually very good.
The maps are disastrous tho
I got burned on a few of their smaller games awhile back. Ordered 3-4 as gifts and they all had some kind of problem. Really turned me off from them.
+1 on GMT's "A World at War" as an amalgam of A3R and Rising Sun. Of course the rules are about 200 pages long...so maybe I'll play once I retire, many years from now.
I've never had any problem with Avalanche Press and I own several shelves' worth of their games, mostly WW1/WW2 at Sea stuff. They have admitted on their web site that they have had issues in the past with fulfillment and some counter quality stuff (soot from the printer's laser and such) but they are a pretty tiny outfit in comparison to all the games they have produced over the years.
My only real gripe is their less than enthusiastic response to folks wanting to make VASSAL versions of their games. There are 2-3 'intro' games now available as VASSAL but no 'big box' titles. I emailed them several times asking for permission to make a VASSAL version of Cruiser Warfare but never heard back. The game is OOP so it shouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on August 03, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
+1 on GMT's "A World at War" as an amalgam of A3R and Rising Sun. Of course the rules are about 200 pages long...so maybe I'll play once I retire, many years from now.
I'd love to get it, but I know I'll never convince someone to play it with me. That was the problem with A3R.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 04, 2017, 05:51:53 AM
I've never had any problem with Avalanche Press and I own several shelves' worth of their games, mostly WW1/WW2 at Sea stuff. They have admitted on their web site that they have had issues in the past with fulfillment and some counter quality stuff (soot from the printer's laser and such) but they are a pretty tiny outfit in comparison to all the games they have produced over the years.
My only real gripe is their less than enthusiastic response to folks wanting to make VASSAL versions of their games. There are 2-3 'intro' games now available as VASSAL but no 'big box' titles. I emailed them several times asking for permission to make a VASSAL version of Cruiser Warfare but never heard back. The game is OOP so it shouldn't be an issue.
Just make the module and upload it. I've done that for some SPI titles now and nobody has said anything. Plus they owe me anyways; *they* used *my* redrawn map for JP3R for the official VASSAL module without asking *me* permission.