I generally ignore all the Star Citizen hype these days.
But once a year I enjoy the annual public presentation. Some very cool information about game development in general in this presentation.
These guys even have a linguist working on alien languages for the game. They also showcase their new terraforming ship.
As excited as I am about this game, I'll admit to being seriously pissed. Alpha 3.0 was due in July. It just made it to Evocati 2 weeks ago and there is no telling when they will release to the PTU.
I don't know I can watch all of that - though it would be interesting to know what's down the line.
I've got to be honest though - whilst I do have Star Citizen I pretty much stay away from any literature (they send weekly emails) or any videos...in fact, keep myself in the dark. My bad.
I haven't played it much - mainly because I'm not really sure what exactly you can do in it (probably because I don't keep up with info on it) - so couldn't possibly give any comment on it's content or playability.
I look forward to it being fleshed out considerably - one day.
I backed it in Kickstarter. After watching the unending mission creep over the years I've given up on it. IMHO the thing is a train wreck and I doubt it will ever see the light of day.
For me, I just want this to be over one way or another - like if this project is going to fail, I just want it to fail now so that everyone can move on.
Or, I want CR to actually release something on time and as promised to prove us all wrong.
While I'm admittedly in the 'Anti' Star Citizen camp these days, I just want this nightmare to end. I don't care how.
The game is hardly a "train wreck" and the 2.6 build is absolutely worth playing. 3.0 is going to be a giant leap forward and I'm confident it will prove a lot of the naysayers wrong.
The wait is painfully frustrating, but I believe.
Five years, over $150,000,000, and they are still in alpha. They're still selling ships that don't even exist in the game. From the Wiki:
In January 2017, when asked about the financial situation of Star Citizen, Chris Roberts said: "I'm not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in-turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen."
So all that time and all that money and they have not even completed Squadron 42 much less Star Citizen. Maybe train wreck isn't the right expression. Maybe scam would be more accurate. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have no desire to comment further as no good will come of it and pretty much everyone has already made up their mind where they stand on it.
Edit - The Qt3 forum has a thread with over 5.5k posts on Star Citizen if anyone has insomnia: https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/star-citizen-chris-roberts-lots-of-spaceship-porn-lots-of-promises/74635/5510
You're right, everybody has already made up their mind. Really though, I don't understand the vitriol. Especially, if you haven't even invested in the game.
JH - I think right now the issue is that star citizen, due to the length of time and lack of deliverables seems like nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.
I will add that I have not bought in at any point but $150M is what most people would call "real money" and to have that kind of investment with no return is dubious at best. It's not Roberts is trying to invent a driverless car or fusion technology.
He's programming a game.
To put in perspective the total dollar amount Eidos dumped into ion storm for diakatana (which I heard also included building a lavish headquarters building for ion storm) was $44 M.
Again, besides being interested in the game in the beginning I have no meat in the arguement one way or the. The only thing that bothers me is the overall negative public impact this will have to the games industry in general. Most of the modern media wants to blame all the worlds ills on video games to begin with so I'd rather not give them more ammo against the industry.
Quote from: jamus34 on November 02, 2017, 08:37:52 AM
JH - I think right now the issue is that star citizen, due to the length of time and lack of deliverables seems like nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.
I will add that I have not bought in at any point but $150M is what most people would call "real money" and to have that kind of investment with no return is dubious at best. It's not Roberts is trying to invent a driverless car or fusion technology.
He's programming a game.
To put in perspective the total dollar amount Eidos dumped into ion storm for diakatana (which I heard also included building a lavish headquarters building for ion storm) was $44 M.
Again, besides being interested in the game in the beginning I have no meat in the arguement one way or the. The only thing that bothers me is the overall negative public impact this will have to the games industry in general. Most of the modern media wants to blame all the worlds ills on video games to begin with so I'd rather not give them more ammo against the industry.
But if you look at what has already been developed and what is being developed, its clear that it is not a "ponzi scheme" and that there is a real product there. This isn't just a "game" its a virtual universe. Nobody has tried to build something like this before. Its taking longer than anyone thought it would, or had hoped it would. This was initially due, in part, to the scope of the game that was continually expanded. This was made possible by the unexpected success of the crowd funding. It enabled the developers to be truly visionary, but it required and still requires an extreme amount of additional work to craft and to then make sure everything fits together. Most of the added reach goals are exciting, a few of them are annoying and could wait, but with the budget and the staff, I don't think things like "new ships that aren't even in the game yet" can really be blamed for present delays. Yes, its frustrating, but I think the end product will justify the necessary delay, and if you think selling a virtual product that isn't in the game yet is offensive, then it is your right not to buy it. I support the game, and yet, I don't buy concept products. I will only buy something that is flight ready. I've got dozens of hours into the current build so I certainly have received my monies worth. I'm hard pressed to believe this is the biggest criminal scheme in the history of gaming. They have multiple studios around the world employing hundreds of people. Really, they are obviously programming something. The frustration is justified, the hyperbole isn't.
JH....I don't own Star Citizen but like many of us on these forums I have followed the unfolding of its development for years. How is it different from Eve Online....? I haven't played that game either, but I am curious if you have and how you would compare the two. Aren't both games MMO's with a persistent, evolving universe giving the players freedom to do pretty much whatever they want?
I'm not saying they are doing nothing but based on the time spent so far vs the product shown does it seem adequate?
Really the situation didn't start bugging me until they start "selling" ships when there is not even a game released yet. To me it felt like selling DLC before a game is even done.
Who knows, maybe the only thing Roberts is guilty of is being a bad businessman / project manager.
Quote from: Rayfer on November 02, 2017, 11:07:31 AM
JH....I don't own Star Citizen but like many of us on these forums I have followed the unfolding of its development for years. How is it different from Eve Online....? I haven't played that game either, but I am curious if you have and how you would compare the two. Aren't both games MMO's with a persistent, evolving universe giving the players freedom to do pretty much whatever they want?
I've never played Eve. Does it let players walk around and crew large corvette, frigate and capital class vessels, docking smaller ships and vehicles? Does it let players explore space stations, EVA in zero-G environments or in open space? Land on moons and planets and walk, run, drive, fly and fight? Does it have FPS combat with small arms, vehicles and craft? Does it have persistent, procedural cities?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 02, 2017, 07:25:17 AM
You're right, everybody has already made up their mind. Really though, I don't understand the vitriol. Especially, if you haven't even invested in the game.
Not sure if you are talking about me, but yes I have invested in the game. See the first sentence of my first post above.
Quote from: Geezer on November 02, 2017, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 02, 2017, 07:25:17 AM
You're right, everybody has already made up their mind. Really though, I don't understand the vitriol. Especially, if you haven't even invested in the game.
Not sure if you are talking about me, but yes I have invested in the game. See the first sentence of my first post above.
I was speaking more generally about rage on the internets. But while we're on the topic, whats your investment? How much are in it for? What package did you buy? Why not try out the current build? Its totally worth playing and it sounds like you paid money and then just read about the game rather then trying out all the builds to see what is available and how it has been progressing.
"Citizen Con Presentation"
I bought a one ship package. Don't remember now what I paid but maybe around $50. I've written it off. Tried a few years ago to update the game several times after the initial download but it kept failing so I gave up. Will probably try again if they ever actually release a final product.
A good video on the various flight modes. I think I will go de-coupled exclusively if I can manage it.
Just trying the PTU, Hurston and Loreville city. Very smooth actually. A city, a train ride and boarding a starship of my choice into space.
I downloaded the Star Citizen 3.3.5 PTU client tonight and had a look. Man this is impressive stuff. I went for a train ride and chose a ship, about 10 guards were unloading on some guy as I chose a ship, nice. Took a lift to a hangar and watched all the magic as I went to the wrong hangar to see somebody taking what looked like my ship. By the time I got to my hangar and as I was opening the rear ramp a video of some guy came up saying I had taken too long (I assume as my sound was down). My ship disappeared. I chose another ship which this time was sent to a platform called "LARGE". No signs to that platform, must be one of the commercial ones. Then a CTD. Looking forward to exploring this some more. But I really must say, I am impressed. I got an average of 20FPS between the game freezing a little between loading. I cannot wait to fly outside of a hangar. But that will have to wait for another night.
The previous version of Stanton space port was a tiny space port. You went down a flight of stairs, ordered the space craft you wanted, the game told you what landing pad to present at. You went straight to the landing pad through an air lock.
This time I loaded in, had a massive room of junk to explore, once I was out of that their was all sorts of stuff going on and places to explore, when I finally made it to the train station. I was thinking. OK. Perhaps I should have taken more note of where I was going so I can go back if I need too. From the train station it is a little ways still to find your way to where you can order your ship. Once you order your ship You must find a lift that goes down 3-4 stories to a hangar... a proper hangar! This is where the big hangar designs for each space port we have seen come into play. Maaaan when I saw a ship take off vertically and the hangar doors close behind it after it left. Awwww maaan. Like a little kid watching E.T. leave for home. I had a goood feeling about this.
A little story about this can. I picked it up in my room and decided it was a good thing to walk around carrying it. Walked to the train station and some guy says to me "dude carrying the can, you also have a plate stuck to your ass!".... if this was not enough I got a spaceship and went to the hangar. For the life of me I could not open the rear ramp to board it. I accidentally threw the can away under the ship... guess what, without the can I could open the rear ramp. Moral of the story. Never carry soda cans while opening ship ramps. This is simple shit. Chewie would have told me about it if I took him along.
When I had my first go it was dark. Today the sun was rising. By the time I got on the train it was light. Pretty cool.
While I was trying to figure out how to open the hangar doors. I alt tabbed for a bit. I tabbed back in to find myself falling below the map. I hit the limit and was killed. However this gave me a criminal infraction. lol. I might have to go fix that at some point. I love it. Their bugs are giving me a bad name.
I decided to start looking through my ships loadout and all the little journal buttons and things while I was flying. I went to my suits screen and started clicking.... this is where my journey ended. It froze on my while going between screens. Oh well. Really though, I found this build to be very stable and very smooth. If you did not do anything out of the ordinary and used the interface at a normal speed with normally accessed functions I doubt it would crash. I went for about 20 minutes before this happened.
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When you can have as many technical errors and glitches as you describe, yet still come away with an awe-inspiring experience, you know Star Citizen is going to be something truly special. I've been saying this since alpha 3.0. The design is there. The vision is there. Now, the technology is there too and it is only a matter of time.
I still believe!
Yes that might be all well and dandy, but even you got to admit that their whole way of gaining moah money is eyebrow raising and has been on more than one occasion.
Besides, the playable part is only a fraction of what the greater vision was marketed as and there is stillno telling how it will pan out on release.
But having said that, there is also no doubt what's on show at the moment is impressive.
The thing that makes me weary about SC is the fact that it having the highest funding of any (crowdfunded?) game ever it still takes so much time, featurs get cut (Squadron 69), etc, while Egosoft will probably bring the 'I am playing in a living world and can build my empire' gameplay with X4 on a much smaller budget and in less time. Sure, the production quality of the art probably will be miles behind that of SC, but thats only logical considering the above.
SC will just be a computer game, not a matter of world peace.
The hype is just out of whack.
In the mean time we already have two playable games of similar ilk: Elite and X4.
(The last 2 paragraphs are not directed at you specifically JH)
I don't know of any features that were cut. Squadron42 is still coming.
I am playing elite dangerous now and even though it is a good game it is very flat beside star citizen.
Elite also misses what star citizen advances on. I mean elite as far as I am aware is not much better feature wise than other games of its type. Star Cirizen has features that we simply have never had before in a game. Put it this way. If their was no star citizen coming and elite dangerous was all we had then it would be pretty lonely and boring in the genre. As for the x4 series. I don't know them well, the new X game is yet to be seen. But from memory it's big detractor was no multiplayer as well Iirc no simulator like first person?
I get why people are skeptical and I can see why some people are bitter, angry or frustrated. Yes, the game has raised over $200,000,000, almost a quarter of a billion dollars, but you can't be angry at RSI over this. People either like what is currently available, or have faith in the vision.
Quite frankly, there is nothing that is comparable to what Star Citizen will offer. Elite, not even close. X4, it's not out yet, but I highly doubt it based on all the games that came before. I love Elite...I was one of the first guys around here to buy into it. I love the X series too. But Star Citizen does and will blow them away. Of course, it's still a game, but let us be hyped about it. It's a dream come true in game terms. If it's too much of a pill for some to swallow, So be it. It's cool if some won't buy a package. However, while many games prove to not live up to the hype, SC isnt one of those, because if you've flown to Hurston, landed, walked or driven around, and gone on some missions, you'd already know that the hype is real.
I am all for contained hype and giddyness! Its fun to be looking fordward to something cool!
Also, I am certainly ok with buying a decently priced pre order pack for a game.
But just like Shroud of the Avatar gets frowned upon for selling town plots for 1500 dollars and up I think the prices of certain SC virtual goods are way way out of the realm of sanity.
Coupled with the fact that they already have gained over 200 mil in funding I find it even more eyebrow raising. Sure, true believers and core supporters will probably invest higher amounts of cash in a project and frankly thats needed at first to gather that critical mass, but I think that phase is long gone for SC.
Add the way the media have pointed out various 'problems' within RSI (I know, I know, its the media) just makes me not pull the trigger on this even though I am a huge space sim fan and absolutely loved Wing Commander.
I am not in the 'against camp' at all, but its not time yet and I think it wont be for quite some time to come still. Which is another point of question: why does it have to take soooooo loooooong?
I certainly have my limits, and I will criticize those super fans who have pledged thousands of dollars or more for various ships, vehicles and on prospecting. In fact, I got kicked off of one of the fan Facebook groups for getting into an argument with a guy who has spent HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars on SC. It's crazy.
I don't disagree that at some point, you've got to stop designing ships and just focus on building the game, but I do believe that transition has happened already. Development and releases of alpha builds is quarterly now. It is faster than ever and they are mostly sticking to the time tables they have set. Again, you can't compare development time with SC to anything else, because nothing else does what SC is aiming to do. It's hard to say what is too long when there is nothing else to compare it to.
You can get a starter ship for $20. Is that really too much to invest to see what all the hype is about? You'll never have to spend another dollar since everything can be purchased in game. The in game pricing system presently is very unbalanced, but this is going to be adjusted as the game gets closer to completion.
There isn't much to lose, and if you love these kinds of games, there is no excuse for not trying it!
Jarhead. I have to ask. From an American perspective, does "unbalanced" suggest something was balanced to begin with and then became less so?
Quote from: Destraex on November 20, 2018, 03:37:25 AM
Jarhead. I have to ask. From an American perspective, does "unbalanced" suggest something was balanced to begin with and then became less so?
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but no. The system was only recently implemented and it has been unbalanced since inception. It is unbalanced because a ship might cost 5,000,000 credits while the average mission only yields a 400-500 credit payout. I presume the imbalance is purposeful at this stage of development. If the ships could be easily purchased in game at this point, then there would be very little incentive for people to continue funding development with real money
It was just a language thing between the ponds that I was curious about. I was always taught to say "imbalance" when something was not balanced and may not have been balanced in the past either. Unbalanced was a big no no for something that was never balanced in the first place because the "un" indicated that it had been in a state that had been reversed. "Un" as a prefix was also used in a way that something was never possible. For example "unattainable". The opposite of possible. But not really to indicate something that was never balanced had somehow become un-balanced even though it was not balanced in the first place. Un-balanced should technically therefore mean either that something has just recently stopped being in balance or is in fact never ever going to be balancable.
I was just curious as to how it was taught in the United States. These days all the kids here use "un-balanced" to mean imbalance anyways. Language over there and its usage was all I was trying to learn about, considering your background would have required very precise language I thought it may be good to ask you.
Quote from: Destraex on November 20, 2018, 06:25:52 AM
It was just a language thing between the ponds that I was curious about. I was always taught to say "imbalance" when something was not balanced and may not have been balanced in the past either. Unbalanced was a big no no for something that was never balanced in the first place because the "un" indicated that it had been in a state that had been reversed. "Un" as a prefix was also used in a way that something was never possible. For example "unattainable". The opposite of possible. But not really to indicate something that was never balanced had somehow become un-balanced even though it was not balanced in the first place. Un-balanced should technically therefore mean either that something has just recently stopped being in balance or is in fact never ever going to be balancable.
I was just curious as to how it was taught in the United States. These days all the kids here use "un-balanced" to mean imbalance anyways. Language over there and its usage was all I was trying to learn about, considering your background would have required very precise language I thought it may be good to ask you.
Who knew this thread would require a doctorate in English grammar.
Quoteunbalanced: not keeping or showing an even balance; not evenly distributed.
Quoteimbalanced: lack of balance : the state of being out of equilibrium or out of proportion
According to Merriam Webster, the terms are fairly interchangeable, although one is a noun and one is a verb generally. However, I don't see any support for the distinction you note. In any event, Can we go back to talking about spaceships and lasers now? :crazy2:
Sure. I apologise if I sounded preachy. I assure you I am no language experten. I would not be surprised if the English teachers I was taught by, before the internet and with the help and urging of my very particular Mother, had a very particular and geographically specific twist on it. We got a kind of mix of mainly British English but also a fair amount of American influence on our English here. So we are very confused I am sure.
As a post script. I have old dictionaries here which beg to differ on many modern meanings for words. But I digress yet again.
As for Star Citizen. I have to admit. I am now eagerly awaiting the next quarterly update.
I have started playing Elite in the mean time and have to say the flight physics in that game are so nice and the game is very polished.
I hope my itch will go away soon and I can go back to waiting for Star Citizen. I kinda fear that I will burn out on Elite just as Star Citizen starts to get interesting. Something I should probably not worry about. We are still looking at a good year yet before the momentum is really cooking I reckon.
When I first played Elite, it was very early alpha. There was basically just a few training missions. However, I remember being awestruck by the visual and audio experience. The way the ships and objects moved through space, the flight physics, the Newtonian aspect of it all...it was just awesome. I stuck with it through development and sank countless hours into it, but I did eventually burn out and it ultimately felt like a very lonely universe and game. Space was just so vast, and overwhelmingly empty. Although realistic, perhaps, it didn't make for a game with tremendous longevity. Additionally, there only seemed to be one reason to do anything...make money to buy larger ships. There was really nothing else to spend your money on, and this seemed to be a major problem with the in game economy. In any event, It will always be on my hard drive and I do go back to it on occasion, but despite all the development over time, there is really no incentive for me to stick with it.
In Elite, everything happens between stations and bases. There is no action and no world to explore once you land or dock. In Star Citizen, there is a whole world to explore at the bases, stations, planets, and moons and these stops are critical to the overall world and advancement within the game. It comes much closer to realizing an authentic virtual universe. This is a key distinguishing feature of the two franchises and one that I think really sets SC apart.
3.3.5 just went live and is out of PTU.
Expecting 3.4 in December.