...although of course you'd still have to produce and market and distribute the thing. So, 450 million for the first season basically.
Still, Warner Brothers (who has been printing money with the
Shadow of Moredough series recently) has reached an agreement with the Tolkien estate to shop the TV rights around to various studios. Amazon's president is angling to be the frontrunner so far in securing the rights to do a series. (HBO has already passed, declaring the series to be too expensive.)
What the series would cover is totally in the air. With that amount of necessary investment, you'd have to bet the series would cover ground that a lot of general population would want to see -- which has been done already, and I gather the Silmarillion material isn't on the table, which would make by far the most sense for a GameofThronesish spin off series. In fact, the rights to key characters from LotR aren't necessarily included, and would have to be negotiated separately! :o What would that even leave over?? I mean that audiences might want to see, and important enough to spend that kind of money up front. The War in the North seems like literally a losing proposition, and it's the only tangential item related to the LotR material itself that has a full story of some sort to work from and which hasn't been fully covered yet (except in some not overly popular games regardless of their quality points otherwise.)
I'd say unless the Silmarillion rights are included, a studio ought to consider passing.
The guys here at the Hybrid Network, where I heard the news this morning, are generally in favor of a LotR reboot series in principle, though.
The story from What Culture:
The article in Deadline (I don't have a link to the original Vanity article yet): http://deadline.com/2017/11/lord-of-the-rings-series-eyed-warner-bros-tv-amazon-1202201636/
I would also think the grand mythical stories from the Silmarillion would be the most logical part of the writing left to put on the screen.
I'd actually quite enjoy it, if they could pull off all those little notable storied bits from Middle Earth's distant past. Would require some good writing, though, because there isn't really much dialogue to pull from the book.
Either way, if they do Silmarillion, or something loosely based on one of the stories or world in general, there would need to be a lot of original screenwriting done. After paying for the rights, I'd be concerned it would get so expensive that the huge expense of this and the rest, such as setting, cast, and CGI, might get short-changed.
It's not worth just redoing the LOTR books, and especially not The Hobbit. We've had plenty of time to gorge on those, as needed, in recent years. Something new is required in film.
Alas, I've seen more confirmation that only the LotR scenario is up for sale. The characters of LotR will have to be paid for as add-ons. L:-) :uglystupid2: :pullhair: #:-)
So basically it'll be like the LotR JRPG-ish turnbased console game from several years ago, where you can play a party of characters just like the Fellowship except different characters, as you follow right behind the real story dealing with their situations' after-effects.
And we all remember how well that game worked as a story, right?
Quote from: Nefaro on November 08, 2017, 09:25:22 AM
Something new is required in film.
as long as we don't end up with Aliens vs Hobbits or Sauron vs Batman #:-)
Quote from: MikeGER on November 08, 2017, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on November 08, 2017, 09:25:22 AM
Something new is required in film.
as long as we don't end up with Aliens vs Hobbits or Sauron vs Batman #:-)
Middle Earth Zompocalypse!
or
Middle Earth Vikings!
?
;D
Quote from: MikeGER on November 08, 2017, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on November 08, 2017, 09:25:22 AM
Something new is required in film.
as long as we don't end up with Aliens vs Hobbits or Sauron vs Batman #:-)
Fortunately, Fox owns the Alien ip. Although I would watch that and/or play that game.
Warner Bros. has already made two rather gritty and well-received Sauron vs Ghost-Ranger-Batman games, so I am legitimately not counting that option out! -- the whole thing might well have started with WB wanting to turn
Shadow of Mordor into a live action property. :o :hide:
Another option might be to adapt the LOTRO game's story of epic fetch-questing. :2funny:
I could see "Flip It or Flop It" doing a Isengard show.
if I had $250 million I could care less about LOTR bullshit.
250 mil would get you a lot of goats
Seriously. LOTR movies are up there with Star Wars for me. Why remake it as a TV series. I bet it will go all star trek discovery and be like game of thrones.
Quote from: Destraex on November 09, 2017, 03:51:23 AM
Seriously. LOTR movies are up there with Star Wars for me. Why remake it as a TV series. I bet it will go all star trek discovery and be like game of thrones.
Because then we might get an accurate depiction of what was written rather than Hollywood invention to make the films "better."
Right. Like the console games do it. ::)
Quote from: MetalDog on November 09, 2017, 06:44:55 AM
Quote from: Destraex on November 09, 2017, 03:51:23 AM
Seriously. LOTR movies are up there with Star Wars for me. Why remake it as a TV series.
Because then we might get an accurate depiction of what was written rather than Hollywood invention to make the films "better."
I find your naive optimism disturbing. :2funny:
I mean, yeah, we theoretically
might get a more accurate depiction of what was written. But we
might have gotten that with the earlier auteurs, too. What do you think the odds are, not only that the creators will resist the temptation to alter the deal (perhaps even further), but also that they will be able to competently translate the text
more accurately to film? and in a way that won't be boring as hell?
I mean, if you're going to make jokes about sniffing and clothes for a television adaptation of the Wheel of Time, by the same token (and by quite the same Tolkien!) the same jokes will apply in
both works to ludicrous levels of descriptive environmental prose.
And that doesn't even account for some of the film changes being (at least arguably) proper and necessary for condensing a long work to a visual entertainment medium -- changes which will make much the same sense when adapting for television. No one will want to watch a forty-five minute episode about the midge marsh chapter. Or about the hobbits hanging out in the farmhouse near the river before making their way to the ferry and thence, once across, to Bree.
There may come a day when we have a decent Lord of the Rings TV show.
But it is not this day!
Because this day, we have Bachelor in Paradise!
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 09, 2017, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: MetalDog on November 09, 2017, 06:44:55 AM
Quote from: Destraex on November 09, 2017, 03:51:23 AM
Seriously. LOTR movies are up there with Star Wars for me. Why remake it as a TV series.
Because then we might get an accurate depiction of what was written rather than Hollywood invention to make the films "better."
I find your naive optimism disturbing. :2funny:
I mean, yeah, we theoretically might get a more accurate depiction of what was written. But we might have gotten that with the earlier auteurs, too. What do you think the odds are, not only that the creators will resist the temptation to alter the deal (perhaps even further), but also that they will be able to competently translate the text more accurately to film? and in a way that won't be boring as hell?
I mean, if you're going to make jokes about sniffing and clothes for a television adaptation of the Wheel of Time, by the same token (and by quite the same Tolkien!) the same jokes will apply in both works to ludicrous levels of descriptive environmental prose.
And that doesn't even account for some of the film changes being (at least arguably) proper and necessary for condensing a long work to a visual entertainment medium -- changes which will make much the same sense when adapting for television. No one will want to watch a forty-five minute episode about the midge marsh chapter. Or about the hobbits hanging out in the farmhouse near the river before making their way to the ferry and thence, once across, to Bree.
I'm not asking for a word for word, scene for scene adaptation. I agree that there are things better read than filmed. Traversing the country between Rivendell and Moria. Or pretty much the whole journey across the Dead Marshes. What I will never condone is Peter Jackson making Sam leave Frodo at the stairs to Cirith Ungol. Totally against every grain and fiber of Sam Gamgee's very being. And yet, Hollywood said it must be so. And ruined it in the process. There are other examples I could give, but I've beaten that horse to death many times here. And I will end by saying what I always say during these discussions, I will always be grateful Hollywood attempted these and got them, mostly, right.
Granted, the forced Peej conflict was indeed stupid sometimes. As Lindsay Ellis (the Nostalgia Chick) put it in one of her retrospectives on the LotR films, "Are you ready for some bulllllllshit!? :D "
Rebooting the thing to fix those several problems however seems like a losing gamble. The new auteurs will be looking to dramatically fix and improve Tolkien's work, too, in various ways. I fully, fully expect a reboot to gay up the Frodo/Sam relationship, for example, in total disregard for Tolkien's intentions. And maybe Merry/Pippin. And maybe Gimli/Legolas. Why? Because that's the time we live in now, not Tolkien's time. And because that would be a selling point for some fans, and would create selling controversy, and whoever fronts the bill for this series would be desperately looking to guarantee their money back at least plus as much profit as possible.
I think the pressure to recoup and profit on their massive expense, won't be focused on repairing a few story tweaks in the films which were added for extra dramatic oomph in the first place.
Imagine what a cable conglomerate might do to it. I can see it now..
"
LotR: The Reality Survival Series"
Quote
Can four contestants survive.. the island of Mordor!? Watch Thursday night to see if Becky will be voted off!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl0MYrLAFex1R71l0A%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=02ec7bd6c4badc6b186d91029428717c83437a81)
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/13/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-coming.html
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fe64e8f09cf0ee0c422a779a99d17eb81%2Ftumblr_mfz4qnjIuS1qmccp7o3_500.gif&hash=f27ac8822fd61b72dcef3757abddd158b7ea99d7)
I didn't say anything. That was the burritos. Burritoeses precious.
Amazon is taking the plunge
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2017/11/13/16645288/lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-amazon
"A Game of Rings". I hear Rosie O'Donnell will play the Balrog--- without make-up! :o
* Multi-season rights acquired.
* Original stories preceding the Lotr films.
* Spinoff series of this series of prequel spinoff stories are possible.
* I did not make up that previous item.
* No, really.
* Really.
My brain cannot understand this. #:-)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on November 13, 2017, 03:06:17 PM
Amazon is taking the plunge
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2017/11/13/16645288/lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-amazon
I'm happy about two things, in this case:
1) It's a streaming service doing this.
2) Amazon has been expanding their thematic repertoire. Most of their prior in-house productions were mom-dramas of the political or police/murder variety.
After seeing them follow through with producing a new
The Tick series, I hoped they would continue to expand away from the same 'ole nighttime soap derivative rut. I've never enjoyed much of their A-Prime Video offerings. Maybe that's getting addressed.
Quote from: Nefaro on November 13, 2017, 07:28:16 PM
Most of their prior in-house productions were mom-dramas of the political or police/murder variety.
Man in the High Castle is a mom-drama?
^Yeah, didn't you read the book? They find the dude's dead, mummified mother in the basement of the castle at the end.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on November 13, 2017, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on November 13, 2017, 07:28:16 PM
Most of their prior in-house productions were mom-dramas of the political or police/murder variety.
Man in the High Castle is a mom-drama?
Not as much as the others, but I still see it as largely in the Drama genre despite the alterna-history theme.
It didn't draw me in, despite repeatedly coming back to watch another episode to see if it finally hooked me. Never did, unfortunately, even after getting into the 2nd season a bit. :-\
Nothing new to add, but a bit more speculation on where the show may go:
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2017/11/14/16648532/amazon-the-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-prequel-ip
Gandalf's on board
http://variety.com/2017/film/news/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-series-ian-mckellen-gandalf-reprise-1202644740/
NOW they got my attention!
So, if you have ONE! BILLYONNN! DOLLLLARRSSS! (plus 250 mill to buy the rights), you can produce a tv series about the Lord of the Rings.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/102931983/sir-peter-jackson-could-be-joining-amazons-billiondollar-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series
Oh, and then Peter Jackson might help, maybe.
http://thechive.com/2018/06/03/new-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-confirmed-for-five-seasons/
:D
FIVE SEASONS OF WHO EVEN KNOWS WHAT REALLY! :buck2:
Edited to add: hm, I thought I had read earlier that McKellen was already in talks to return as Gandalf, but that article suggests no one has even asked him yet. (Not that I overly care, though he was a fine Gandalf -- he showed in interviews he didn't understand the character at all, but that's how good an actor McK is I guess.)
I'm going to change my name to, "Tolkien" to get a cut of that $250 Million. ^-^
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 03, 2018, 10:33:10 PM
I'm going to change my name to, "Tolkien" to get a cut of that $250 Million. ^-^
If I was still in broadcast production, I'd want to get on board with the production company and get a sliver of that 1 billion! Lots of work for someone out there.
Perhaps Electronic Arts will sense money in the water, and find a way to release their now-classic LotR games on GoG/Steam/etc. now... (And convert their PS2 games to modern platforms. And make ponies fly... :'( )
ARISE MEN OF NUMENOR!
The Amazon series stands revealed as being set in the Second Age! We're getting (at least some parts of) the Silmarillion!! Which I suppose I'll have to learn to spell now! :hide:
No idea if this is five seasons of the Second Age, but considering they're having to compete against an (apparent) commitment to film the whole Wheel of Time series (with some books in the middle compressed, thank God), then they might well be. There's a ton of content to work with, and even some characters still around in the film series later to make tie-ins.
It's great to speculate, but, I won't believe it will get off the ground until I hear it is in production. Having said that, if I was to get what I wished, I would like to see them tie in as many of the important happenings in the Second Age as possible. Maybe using each season to see things from Elves, Men, Dwarves, and Sauron's viewpoint, and then tying it altogether in the fifth season. What I would REALLY love to see is The Silmarillion from beginning to end. Anyone who saw LotR would have a much greater appreciation for the epic span of time brought to a close with Gollum falling into the Crack of Doom. And there are as many stories as you could want. Some already fleshed out, Turin, Beren & Luthien, to the times between the great battles of Dagor Bragollach and the Nirnaeth Arnoeid (sp?). There is literally years of programming there if they want it. I just want them to be true to the source material where present and stay in the spirit for the stuff you invent.
Quote from: MetalDog on June 24, 2020, 10:52:16 PM
I just want them to be true to the source material where present and stay in the spirit for the stuff you invent.
+1 million to this. I'm totally down for a series set in the Second Age, but as long as it's faithful to Tolkien's material & vision, I'll be happy regardless of when/where it's set.
Word is that the Tolkien estate is keeping a firm leash on proceedings, and will insist on all key details being included unchanged (probably with provisions for convenience in staging and filming.)
They can get pretty picky on details, too, although they don't always have intellectual-property control at that level: they would have preferred for the films NOT to show pumpkins for example, and praised a game (Lotro if I recall correctly) for intentionally omitting those as a crop in Middle-Earth.
Looks like the firm leash was let loose. The trailer looks very much like I would expect from Hollywood these days. The purchase of a big name to get people to go see something only loosely related to the lore. Looks like JJ Abrams has had some influence on this one. It seems that Amazon has seen off the Tolkien advisor they had and are running free in the jungle with nothing to stop them from burning it down.
Quote from: Destraex on February 15, 2022, 07:16:39 AM
Looks like JJ Abrams has had some influence on this one.
from what i have read and seen so far
looks like Jar Jar Binks has had some influence on this one too :-\
wouldn't be astonished if he even is also in the series ...just for diversity, and Gungan rights ;)
oh wait, StarWars is Disney, so no ;D
Yeah, no I'm not so interested in this.
I just don't get why people have their panties all wadded up over this? I mean, it's everyone's right to bitch, complain and even articulate in an adult manner why they think this show will suck, but saying it will suck when 1 second of it hasn't even hit the airways boggles my mind.
Probably because a lot of the LoTR characters/world has been written to fit todays woke world view :-\
And let's leave it at that so as not to raise the ire of the JH or Gusington beasties. >:D
I have no faith that anyone can do Tolkien but Tolkien. My prediction is this will be about 10 % Tolkien, 80 % Hollywood and the rest advertisement for merchandise to follow. I can already see an Amazon truck pulling-up to the Dwarves to delivery new picks and shovels. Hoping I'm wrong here of course. :-X
Critical Drinker does a pretty good job summarizing fans' concerns while maintaining a level head about the whole thing:
Since there is no "like" button on this forum let me just say...
W8taminute liked a post by steve58
^heh
Yeah, time has passed and we've all gotten older since I posted that notice about the estate keeping a close eye on things. Also, Chris Tolkien died meanwhile.
I do think trailers count as more than one second hitting the airwaves, but i allow that trailers don't always reflect the quality of the product. Usually the trailers seem much better! :hide: But I also allow that LotR was a definite exception to that generalization when Fellowship launched its first trailer because the marketing team behind it clearly had NO IDEA what they were trying to do. "You will find adventure. Or adventure will find you."
That said. I've also heard lately that in one way the estate HAS kept a leash on things: the producers are basically forbidden to use any actual plot from Tolkien's writings, in the sense of depicting it directly -- they can reference things, but not show it. Characters can be used, but not in actual plot from JRRT's work. This may be related to the original show writers all being fired and/or fleeing the production some time ago.
I will grant that the actual trailer (which dropped a little before the SuperBowl) looks better than I feared, considering how badly they mucked up the teaser trailer featuring the series title being poured with molten whatever -- something that was created and shot using an actual damn Bigature in real life, but which was post-produced so badly it looked as derpy as heck (not even hell). How does that happen with the super-camera they were shown filming it with? No idea.
On the other hand, some of the trailer was giving me 1980s Legend production vibes, so... ....yay? :bd:
My true concern, aside from their own announcements about marketing the show for buzzwords and buzzwords (insert missing vomitcon here), is that I just got finished watching Amazon slaughter a massively popular potentially never-ending cash-cow fantasy property, The Wheel of Time, and parade around in its gutted corpse while the corpse was still trying to plead for its life. I have less than no faith at this time that the showrunners will even be minimally competent, much moreso that they'll be truly respectful to Tolkien's work and its legacies.
I have no reason at this time to be able to hope I'm wrong, though I promise I will be glad and grateful to be wrong! (Which is why I keep repeating "at this time".)
...I just realized I've been genuinely afraid to go watch the trailer again, since having skimmed it in passing this weekend while getting ready to do something else. I'm afraid it'll be worse than my brief skim indicated. That's a miserable feeling. :-\
It is indeed a miserable feeling. To always be negative about movies these days. I have very little faith either.
I really really want to enjoy this series as I am a massive LOTR fan. But if I am honest I know I will not get the battle scenes I want to see from it.
The LOTR movies were good in part because they discussed tactics and things made sense. I doubt the ring of power will bother. Because it won't be for that kind of audience. I get a game of thrones with toned down sex kind of vibe from the trailer.
Update to clarify, from a recent Vanity Fair article: Amazon bought the rights to use material from the LotR Trilogy, the Hobbit (unclear if that includes any new material from that film trilogy but probably not?), and the Appendices.
They are forbidden by Tolkien's estate to use anything from ANY OTHER TOLKIEN WRITINGS for their story of the Second Age, including all the material Tolkien wrote about the Second Age separately from information about that Age found scattered throughout the Third Age books (Hob/LotR/Appends). Nothing at all can be used from the Silmarillion, for example, nor from any of the books edited by Christopher Tolkien from JRRT's historical notes about the Second Age.
So the writers took the few scattered bits of information from those sources, and used them "like stars in the sky" to work their plot from.
.....at this point I almost feel sorry for the writers, like they lost a drunken dare with the Estate. :buck2:
(Almost sorry. The writers still had their agenda, and that was obvious from the beginning, and the Estate evidently acted to insulate representation of JRRT's work from socio-political tampering. Not that they were going to turn down 250 million dollars to pimp out what amounts to the farts of the Second Age collected in jars, of course. ::) )