Been looking at these on the Steam sale and cant make up my mind on which one to get. The last time I played a board wargame were some of the Avalon Hill titles in the 70s/early80s.
Which of the 3 would be more easily accessible for someone whom has been out of the loop for a while?
Both look quite interesting but from what I can tell the Gary Grisby series seems to be quite a bit more in depth.
Your thoughts?
Easily accessible? Then that would be advanced tactics. It won't be historical though. But you can find some user scenarios.
ATG
WITW is the XL bad dragon dildo of wargames
Here's my two cents. ATG is like a wargame construction set to me, almost like a wargame 4X. It's pretty generic but has a loyal fan base and a bunch user made scenarios. Played a lot of ATG single player a few years ago, it's pretty easy to get into. WITW/WITE are complex but it's easy to jump in and push counters around and take in the details at your own pace. I prefer WITE as both sides get to attack/defend. I'd recommend the DLC if you go with WITE as you'll get a bunch more smaller scenarios. I'd go to the forums or YouTube to watch let's plays or read AAR's to help you make up your mind.
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
Quote from: Barthheart on March 01, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
Plays the same as well, and better looking. There is also an Eastern Front version.
Quote from: Hofstadter on March 01, 2018, 12:46:53 AM
WITW is the XL bad dragon dildo of wargames
This guy nailed it in one sentence. ;D
WitW is actually quite enjoyable if you're into EXTREEEEEEMLY detailed games. WitE is much the same, though I'd argue it's more so because of the scale (though each game has scenarios that limit the size/scope for something more manageable).
ATG, I've never played, so I can't speak to that.
ATG is the bomb for random battles. I still play it occasionally.
The main issue with ATG is that the AI gets massive production bonuses. EVERY game, when I run into the AI, I am astounded by how massive an army they have created. I min-max the hell out of my production, and I am immediately thrown into a defensive war, where the capture of even ONE city is a major, major task.
Don't get me wrong..I love ATG, but pack a lunch, and don't expect to win even a small map in a short period of time.
Gee, looky here - GrogHeads' War in the West Review (http://grogheads.com/review/7491)
^Where'd you find that? :P
That link looks sketchy
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/reJOGQ43nNeGk/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Barthheart on March 01, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
This.
Also the sequel(s). Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue (East Front) for example.
The DC series has some extra mechanics that make it more interesting than a run-of-the-mill counterfest, and isn't as overwhelming.
DC: Barbarossa is more expensive, of course.
Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions.
I got ATG and Decisive Campaigns Warsaw to Paris.
Will keep an eye on Gary Grisby's series but don't want to get information overload and become disinterested.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 01, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 01, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
This.
Also the sequel(s). Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue (East Front) for example.
The DC series has some extra mechanics that make it more interesting than a run-of-the-mill counterfest, and isn't as overwhelming.
DC: Barbarossa is more expensive, of course.
...what he said
Quote from: BanzaiCat on March 01, 2018, 08:04:14 AM
Quote from: Hofstadter on March 01, 2018, 12:46:53 AM
WITW is the XL bad dragon dildo of wargames
This guy nailed it in one sentence. ;D
WitW is actually quite enjoyable if you're into EXTREEEEEEMLY detailed games. WitE is much the same, though I'd argue it's more so because of the scale (though each game has scenarios that limit the size/scope for something more manageable).
ATG, I've never played, so I can't speak to that.
Memo: Wipe Monitor.
:DD
Quote from: Nefaro on March 01, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 01, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
This.
Also the sequel(s). Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue (East Front) for example.
The DC series has some extra mechanics that make it more interesting than a run-of-the-mill counterfest, and isn't as overwhelming.
DC: Barbarossa is more expensive, of course.
Barbarossa is a gem.
Quote from: CJReich46 on March 01, 2018, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on March 01, 2018, 08:04:14 AM
Quote from: Hofstadter on March 01, 2018, 12:46:53 AM
WITW is the XL bad dragon dildo of wargames
This guy nailed it in one sentence. ;D
WitW is actually quite enjoyable if you're into EXTREEEEEEMLY detailed games. WitE is much the same, though I'd argue it's more so because of the scale (though each game has scenarios that limit the size/scope for something more manageable).
ATG, I've never played, so I can't speak to that.
Memo: Wipe Monitor.
:DD
And what would you call WITP? That's still the most complicated of the lot.
By the way WITE is hardly complicated. There are stuff under the hood but not too complex. You just have thousands and thousands of counters to push. WITE is somewhere in between.
WitE/WitW are "complicated" because there's a lot of moving parts to them, which might seem overwhelming to someone who is just now approaching them with cautious interest (such as the OP).
I would not recommend WitP to ANY person new to computer wargaming. Not because it's a bad product, but because you're going to be futzing with stuff down to the molecular level. I think you'd need to either have a serious fetish for the Pacific War and logistics in general to want anything to do with WitP. That said, it has no equal when it comes to detail and immersiveness. (I wrote the manual to it for Matrix, and though it's been a while since it came out I still recall how deep in the weeds you can get with that game.) There's also an AAR in these very forums on that game that UCG and KyzBP did a few years back that shows off that game well: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13984.0
Quote from: jomni on March 01, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 01, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 01, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
If you're looking at Advanced Tactics maybe consider Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris instead. Just as easy to learn and has the history AT doesn't. Made by the same developer and also on sale.
This.
Also the sequel(s). Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue (East Front) for example.
The DC series has some extra mechanics that make it more interesting than a run-of-the-mill counterfest, and isn't as overwhelming.
DC: Barbarossa is more expensive, of course.
Barbarossa is a gem.
The DC series must be good, and rather unique, because I normally just bitch about too many WW2 themed land warfare games. Yet still recommend those. :nerd:
Does it matter which game in the DC series you play first?
Not really, but Barbarossa is different as it has an RPG element to it and Case Blue has the highest counter count. There all solid games, people seemed to forget about WTP but i find it to be a really well balanced game.