OK. MY question is, I waited to see who the Crimson Dawn were working for and was surprised to see it was Darth Maul. :o With the frequent references to The Empire this and The Empire that, how could he be alive IF he got whacked by Obi-Wan back in Phantom Menace BEFORE the Empire was created? Or was it already in existence at the start of Phantom Menace and I missed it? Or did he have a twin too, another set of twins? Come on you Star Wars experts, give me the explanation for this. It's killing me.
They brought him back in the Clone Wars animated series which is considered part of the new canon. I think it's stupid to dump him into Solo, but he is technically still around.
Harder to kill than cockroaches!
As silly as it sounds for Maul to survive, the Clone Wars story line handled it about as well as possible. There was a fair amount of fan support for it too, since he was pretty much the best thing about Phantom Menace.
Having him show in Solo feels like pure fan service. OTOH, the entire movie feels like fan service.
I kind of thought Vader would show his helmeted visage in this one. Maybe too obvious.
Having followed Clone War and Rebels, I'm not sure how Maul makes sense.
I get Maul surviving and what he did in Clone Wars, and I read the Sons of Dathomir canon comic that showed what happened after Palpatine beat him down after he tried to make a comeback in Clone Wars.
But it's hard to see him being able to built his criminal empire back up in the wake of its fall in Clone Wars. Palpatine showed pretty blatantly that he found Maul's activities unacceptable.
It's also a pretty short while before his appearance in Rebels, where he's depicted as losing everything and obsessed with revenge on Kenobi, which culminates in their final confrontation.
It's odd that inbetween him getting crushed by Palpatine, he apparently rises again only to, I guess have another fall. Seemed the movie is leaving a hole for a sequel, but considering the very "meh" response from even die hards like myself, I doubt that's happening.
^NERD!!!!
Quote from: mirth on May 29, 2018, 07:54:42 PM
^NERD!!!!
Takes one to know one.
Not really a surprise around these parts anymore.
Now excuse me, I must go back to stitching together my Wookie Suit and translating R2 Binary dialogue.
There is no way in hell that the film arm will feel themselves forced to adhere to any number of animated series as canon. We can expect Rebels to be retconned, and no doubt that comic book, if the producers decide interest in Maul warrants moar mauling.
(For goodness sake, TLJ is almost anti-canon, so... ::) )
Meanwhile, a quick recap about RLM's Solo predictions...
And the RLM review itself:
"Based on what you just heard [Rich chuckling with, not at, the movie], you know what's really surprising? ...I kind of loved it." :o
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 29, 2018, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 29, 2018, 07:54:42 PM
^NERD!!!!
Takes one to know one.
Not really a surprise around these parts anymore.
Now excuse me, I must go back to stitching together my Wookie Suit and translating R2 Binary dialogue.
I apologize. You are far less deserving of the nerd moniker than Pratt.
My avatar is a promotional photo of myself, which I shot of myself, for a novel I published myself, which I paid for myself, 5000 units of which will be pulped soon because my own distributor doesn't care about me even paying rent on it anymore.
Your analysis is correct. O0
Lmao
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 29, 2018, 08:00:40 PM
There is no way in hell that the film arm will feel themselves forced to adhere to any number of animated series as canon. We can expect Rebels to be retconned, and no doubt that comic book, if the producers decide interest in Maul warrants moar mauling.
(For goodness sake, TLJ is almost anti-canon, so... ::) )
Except that Pablo Hidalgo and the Lucas Story group has actually kept everything very tight, and was hired directly to avoid retocns. The tie ins between Rebels and Rouge One are seamless. The connections with the canon comic books are as well.
They've actually held themselves very close to the canon, including the animated series. The mere fact that watching Clone Wars is almost necessary to understanding WHY Maul is in this movie is evidence of that. Rogue One is evidence of the same with Saw Garerra bring brought over from animated to film. It meshed almost perfectly with the Saw Geonosis story that was bookended with Rogue One so that after the movie aired, we saw why the Rebels and Saw split.
The Comic Book, Son of Dathomir, is, again referenced in Solo as Maul says that's where he's returned to make his base of operations. Again, it's got significance lost on anyone that hasn't read it, but they put it in the movie.
So, I wouldn't say it's a retcon. I'd say they're trying to make the timeline too busy. They don't want the Maul character to have downtime between his escape in Son of Dathomir and his return in Rebels. He apparently stayed on Dathomir after the comic, which Solo overtly says, and tried to rebuild his criminal Empire there. Why Palpatine let Maul do this is more the question.
Quote from: mirth on May 29, 2018, 08:04:05 PM
I apologize. You are far less deserving of the nerd moniker than Pratt.
Just give me a minute.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 29, 2018, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 29, 2018, 08:04:05 PM
I apologize. You are far less deserving of the nerd moniker than Pratt.
Just give me a minute.
I think you covered it in your previous post.
Quote from: mirth on May 29, 2018, 08:48:10 PM
I think you covered it in your previous post.
Just getting started!
And aha! Yeah, checking Son of Dathomir, it actually does give some more connection to Solo.
Maul kept up his alliance with the Pykes and Shadow Collective, both of which were referenced in Solo. The Pykes were the ones running Kessel. This is why Crimson Dawn was unwilling to strike the Pykes openly.
So it seems they are sticking close to where Maul was left off at Son of Dathomir. Now, why he ends up where he does in Rebels is another story.
No, I agree, I didn't say they were retconning things yet in Solo -- I agree, they're being too busy with the continuity.
But I don't trust them (after TLJ) to stick with continuity if later they decide they want Maul to be, let's say, purely off the top of my head, hiding out on a planet because he wants to die alone, when everything in the previous film indicated he was doing something else.
On the other hand, that might have bit Disney in the ass too hard, trying to be dismissively clever-cute with their own aroused creative genius (or whatever), so maybe they learned their lesson? I don't suppose it's technically impossible, but I still don't trust them.
Look, there's a reason why I was vague about the Clone Wars connection :P
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 29, 2018, 08:12:53 PM
My avatar is a promotional photo of myself, which I shot of myself, for a novel I published myself, which I paid for myself, 5000 units of which will be pulped soon because my own distributor doesn't care about me even paying rent on it anymore.
Your analysis is correct. O0
Well, my avatar is a cartoon version of myself and my wife, who is also a published author (though she doesn't allow me to share details past that due to, well, things) done Star Wars style!
NERD OFF!!
Like you can turn the nerd off.
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 29, 2018, 08:51:00 PM
No, I agree, I didn't say they were retconning things yet in Solo -- I agree, they're being too busy with the continuity.
But I don't trust them (after TLJ) to stick with continuity if later they decide they want Maul to be, let's say, purely off the top of my head, hiding out on a planet because he wants to die alone, when everything in the previous film indicated he was doing something else.
On the other hand, that might have bit Disney in the ass too hard, trying to be dismissively clever-cute with their own aroused creative genius (or whatever), so maybe they learned their lesson? I don't suppose it's technically impossible, but I still don't trust them.
I think they've learned a bit of a lesson because of the billions they've got from sticking to a coherent continuity in Marvel.
Just using your example. I can't see Disney thinking, in a theoretical, that that end would be better for Maul, compared to what we got in Rebels. I mean, I admit, Rebels was a kids show most of the time, but Maul and Kenobi's final battle was some Kurosawa level stuff. They seem to be putting thought into what they're doing.
But, that said, I think Solo is a misstep
...yeah, well, uh, I
could have potentially maybe had a published author wife I couldn't talk about someday really!
(Not really.)
Oh, I can add to your Maul-canon connection, btw: he was voiced by the same guy who does him in the animated series.
But let me add to my prediction of despair, too. Darth Maul isn't really there as a Solo sequel hook. He's really there as a hook
for the Obi-solo film, so that Star Wars can work on creating a shared universe of films. (Which they don't really have yet, technically speaking, as insane as it sounds to say that. Solo's a first step in that.)
And when that film happens, how do you think they're going to handle Obi-wan and Maul having already met (with Savage Clancy Brown, and Adult Ventriss) and fought pretty decisively in the past?
Search your feelings. You know it to be true. They aren't going to remake those episodes in live-action, and they aren't going to make a quadrillion-dollar film that simply skips over Darth Maul's return grudge match terrorist operation.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 29, 2018, 09:03:29 PM
I think they've learned a bit of a lesson because of the billions they've got from sticking to a coherent continuity in Marvel.
Nope. I can decisively and deductively prove that not enough people over Kennedy's pay grade learned a single lesson from that, in three words:
The.
Last.
Jedi.
A film that
wasn't made between Iron Man 1 and the Hulk rebootquel. That film was made
after Disney made billions sticking to a (mostly) coherent continuity in Marvel.
Edited to add: I'm willing to allow they might have learned something
from the backlash to TLJ. But they clearly didn't learn anything from Marvel about respecting continuity and the fan support.
You and I don't share the same point of view on The Last Jedi, so we can agree to disagree.
After Disney killed the EU, created the story group, put Hidalgo in charge of continuity, I doubt they're going to openly start contradicting and retoconning themselves. The Last Jedi might not connect with people's IDEA of where the continuity should go, but that doesn't meant it retcons anything.
They could have just kept things as they were with the EU with multiple levels of official, canon, movie canon and TV canon, but they didn't. I'd imagine they're going to stick to it, especially when this movie hasn't performed quite the way they desired.
We'll see. If they decide to wreck the continuity they spent a lot of time hyping and building, they'll lose people like me. It's not a demographic they want to sacrifice.
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 29, 2018, 09:11:18 PM
...yeah, well, uh, I could have potentially maybe had a published author wife I couldn't talk about someday really!
(Not really.)
Aside from being a teacher in my day job, I'm the COO of her LLC. So I get two monthly paychecks from my spouse. I call it my sugar momma allowance. It's funny.
This also could be part of Thanos' evil plan to destroy half our universe by using the Time Stone to go back and save Darth Maul thus turning us against each other with a snap of his fingers, justifying his actions. Or maybe Opie-Wan never watched any of the other Star Wars films and don't know shit about what he's doing and just did what Disney wanted so he can get his "Mayberry" ride at Disney World. My bet is it's not really Maul at all, it's his cloned twin, Darth Paul. Think about it. :o
Effin Nerds
NERD LIVES MATTER!!!! Though.... I'm not sure why.
Quote from: Sir Slash on May 29, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
NERD LIVES MATTER!!!! Though.... I'm not sure why.
Ask the Auburn College Bowl team in 1999! KICKING YOUR ASS WITH TRIVIA!
Trivia, the Nerd Equalizer. :nerd:
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 29, 2018, 09:20:04 PM
After Disney killed the EU, created the story group, put Hidalgo in charge of continuity, I doubt they're going to openly start contradicting and retoconning themselves. The Last Jedi might not connect with people's IDEA of where the continuity should go, but that doesn't meant it retcons anything.
Noooo, changing where the continuity came
from retcons anything. ;)
I assume we'll have to disagree about that, so moving on.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 29, 2018, 09:28:10 PM
Aside from being a teacher in my day job, I'm the COO of her LLC. So I get two monthly paychecks from my spouse. I call it my sugar momma allowance. It's funny.
Also legitimately awesome! :smitten:
Meanwhile, a verrrry spoilery (and cursey) unbridled rage from MauLer:
I like Solo a lot more than he does, but I have to agree with a lot of that, too. :(
Saw it. Liked it. Thought it was better than Last Jedi. Not sure where I put it in relation to the other Disney releases.
Alden Ehrenreich was fine. I'm glad he didn't try to imitate Harrison Ford. Donald Glove really nailed Lando. Rest of the cast was good.
The Darth Maul scene didn't bother me much. Nice nod to the Clone Wars story. I liked that Han shot first against Beckett. I th.ought that was a nice bit of redemption from Lucas retconning of the Cantina scene. Also nice to see Warwick Davis and Clint Howard with parts.
It was a solid movie. Too bad we're not likely to see another Solo flick.
No, next up will probably be, "Jabba the Pre-Hutt Years".
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 02, 2018, 09:42:25 PM
No, next up will probably be, "Jabba the Pre-Hutt Years".
Would it be like Wonder Years? With the voice over? Winnie the Hutt?
I'd watch that. Not lying.
I liked the movie as well, though there was a bit too much name dropping and people suddenly removing their helmets before staring meaningfully at the horizon to make it truly good. It's a B- for me.
People not wearing helmets is one of those modern twists to the movies that take some getting used to. Previously, Imperial officers and Sith were generally the only ones not wearing helmets. Now, you get very Imperial Guard/Warhammer 40k looking scenes with a commissar, eh, major encouraging troops in some war-torn hellscape to charge for the Emperor where nobody is wearing a helmet and there are no Stormtroopers around.
The young Han was a bit different from what I had expected, it seemed a bit odd that somehow who had been forced to resort to crime to be able to live in some gang territory has an ego the size of a Star Destroyer right at the start. I expected him to be a bit more humble and grow more cocky with each success. I haven't followed any of the Extended Universe lore about Solo, or anybody else for that matter, so this was just a bit surprising considering the character of Solo from the original trilogy. The actor did a good job, that has to be said.
Not following the EU might also be why some other parts of the movie felt like they could've used a bit more explanation, such as how Qi'ra ended up working for an important Crimson Dawn crime boss. I guess that might be the biggest issue with movies like this: you want to please the fanbase that have been following everything there is to follow, but you also need to explain a thing or two to those that didn't. The same applies to comic-based movies.
Darth Maul's presence was strange, but as has been noted earlier in the thread the canon was apparently adjusted so that he isn't dead. Why Palpatine would leave a very powerful Sith to be alive somewhere where he can't control him is less clear, as has also been mentioned.
I thought the reference to a Wookiee named Sagwa would also make sense to those keeping up to date on the EU, but that name doesn't pop-up on Chewbacca's Wookieepedia page, nor does she/he have her/his own page.
It did feel a bit too much like a "formula" movie from time to time, as if there was a checklist of things that had to be included, a flaw of the recent movies and one of the clearest signs of Disney's involvement.
Also: this was the first movie where I felt the diversity debate was shoehorned into the movie with a female, feminist droid that incites a revolution of the oppressed and calls for equal rights. It was like the writers thought that some of those issues had to be included and decided to make one character an embodiment of all of it. Note that I have no issues at all with equal rights for any groups, it's just that it feels so forced when it's done like this. Like the studio wanted to make sure it had covered all bases when it comes to criticism about a lack of diversity.
The droid stuff didn't really bother me, though it was heavy-handed. I did like that she was added to the ship's computer at the end. That was a nice nod to Empire and 3PO commenting on the Falcon's computer having a 'most peculiar dialect'.
I thought they tried to put a bit too much story into too little time to do it in. It felt kind of rushed to me.
The final act with Enfys Nest and the Rebellion felt crammed in for the sake of making Han a hero. Still though, I give it credit for having something of an original story - more than can be said for Force Awakens or Rogue One. And TLJ was just bad.
Solo wasn't great, but it's better than a lot of the complaints. I can understand why it cratered at the box office though. Too soon after TLJ and Disney has managed to reduce SW to 'meh'.
As far as Previously Extended Canon goes, wasn't Enfys Nest supposed to be Han's real mother? The alteration, if so, suggests we're going to have a sister for him now. Hopefully they don't take the Leia route on purpose. (It's like poetry. It rhymes. It rhymes with grinfest. :buck2: )
Regarding Leet being put into the Falcon's computer, I've noticed some people online complaining about how utterly tone-deaf that feels, since that would be like hell for L3-37: permanently enslaved as long as the ship survives! But her story seems rather schizo anyway, and Screen Rant's Jenny Nicholson (in a classic mega-hot-take) theorizes that "Leet" was supposed to be more of a snarky sidekick like the Rogue One bot (whose name I've sadly forgotten despite awesome characterization) who didn't care about robot rights at all until she accidentally started a revolution at Kessel.
I'm glad someone else (ComradeP) got a strong 40K vibe from the brief Imperial Guard action! :D :smitten:
I may not agree with the final score, but this review is on the nose
https://butletmetellyouwhy.wordpress.com/2018/05/27/review-solo-a-star-wars-story-2018/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927
Not sure this counts as spoilers, but just in case:
"Wait, Solo was a failure?! The three other people in my theater seemed to enjoy it."
Didn't plan on seeing Solo in the theater, but I needed to kill some time and someone bought me a ticket so what the hell...
I didn't go in with much in the way of expectations, which is usually a good approach to have. Was still unimpressed. The movie dragged, with a pretty slow and generic heist plot, for most of it's over 2-hour run. Only in the last 15 to 20 minutes did it become a bit engaging and by that time it was obviously tying up the end. :-\ Meh.
Most of the acting was also in the 'meh' category, and the major characters' written lines just weren't good. The most enjoyable characters were a couple of the bad guys... maybe. ??? Just pretty bland all around.
Quote from: Nefaro on June 20, 2018, 08:16:42 AM
Just pretty bland all around.
which makes at as good or better than any of the Disney SW movies so far.
I watched it a second time with the wife and it doesn't get any better. :hide: I had to laugh at the Mega Nerds in front of us arguing about how Darth Maul could still be alive.