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History, Reference, Research, and GrogTalk => Military (and other) History => Topic started by: besilarius on July 15, 2018, 03:11:12 PM

Title: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: besilarius on July 15, 2018, 03:11:12 PM
https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq/
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: JasonPratt on July 15, 2018, 03:15:12 PM
 :o

Okay, wait, Churchill is trolling Kaiser Will, right?
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: besilarius on July 15, 2018, 03:11:12 PMChurchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg

uh, Lee did lose at Gettysburg
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: Staggerwing on July 15, 2018, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: besilarius on July 15, 2018, 03:11:12 PMChurchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg

uh, Lee did lose at Gettysburg

The article is a counterfactual, which is what 'alt-history' was called back in the day.
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: trailrunner on July 15, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 15, 2018, 04:19:42 PM

The article is a counterfactual, which is what 'alt-history' was called back in the day.

Do two counter-factuals equal a factual?
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: JasonPratt on July 15, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
Right, this is Churchill satirizing the Kaiser or something like that?
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: Staggerwing on July 15, 2018, 04:51:09 PM
Quote from: trailrunner on July 15, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 15, 2018, 04:19:42 PM

The article is a counterfactual, which is what 'alt-history' was called back in the day.

Do two counter-factuals equal a factual?

No, but three lefts make a right.
Title: Re: Churchill considers if Lee had lost at Gettysburg
Post by: Staggerwing on July 15, 2018, 05:00:56 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 15, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
Right, this is Churchill satirizing the Kaiser or something like that?

I don't think it was specifically aimed at the Kaiser. I think Churchill was actually saying that you can't truly know how history would have gone if some momentous event had played out differently. The assumption that a Union loss in the ACW would have lead to greater chaos in the early twencen is not a given, but could have instead lead to Churchill's 'English-Speaking Association' and, possibly, it's continental European counterpart.