As the title. Anyone got these and if so which one and what made you go for one over the other?
XPlane looks stunning but I gather from Asid it doesn't have ATC.
P3D hands down. Only way their getting me on XP is kicking and screaming.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 24, 2018, 10:57:37 PM
As the title. Anyone got these and if so which one and what made you go for one over the other?
XPlane looks stunning but I gather from Asid it doesn't have ATC.
I've outgrown FSX ATC and do online (VATSIM) so I'm fine with XP. I stopped at XP10 though. Is the current P3D now 64bit?
Quote from: Kushan on August 25, 2018, 01:13:55 AM
P3D hands down. Only way their getting me on XP is kicking and screaming.
Can you explain why? I have XP11 and think it is fantastic. I've heard it's the gold standard.
Pretty good discussion here...consensus seems to be that they both excel at differen5 things. Neither one is unquestionably superior to the other.
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/536928-trying-to-make-the-p3d-vs-xp11-decision/ (https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/536928-trying-to-make-the-p3d-vs-xp11-decision/)
JD, the money you've invested in FSX, you'll be able to use some of them with P3D I think.. It's been awhile since I've FSX'd but at least back when I did, I thought some of the expensive add ons were cross platform applicable. Some the creators wanted you to buy again. I think Orbx you could go either way.
Some big addons that prepar has make it the Goto more than xplane. Active sky for and world traffic for AI. Xplane's has week addons for these areas. Prepare has a better default ATC which I have been using more than addon ATC because it works better with the AI.
XPLANE looks better graphically and runs better, I can make my own photoreal scenery that look amazing. But the overall experience is still better and more alive in prepar.
My son is a pilot and going through flight training cert. He flies both. I showed him this thread and the first thing he said was XP has a much better "real" feel for flying, especially for maneuvering and landing. He said P3D is better for ATC and navigation. He was specific around XP being a lot better for anything beyond straight as an arrow flying. When he is using P3D, he is trying to recreate the whole flight experience and concedes on the flight characteristics.
He also said the uses XP to prep for maneuvers prior to every training flight. He uses P3D when he has to do a solo cross country.
Well as they're civilian flights it seems to me ATC would be a big part of "having something to do", especially when taking off and landing. Otherwise all your doing is jumping in a plane and flying from A to B.
I like the look of X Plane, but no ATC is a bit of a bummer. I also looked at the add-ons. There's ALOT...£700+ worth!!
Tuna, I don't even think I've got those downloads for FSX kicking around anymore so that's not a positive for me jumping on P3D
Thanks for the replies
ATC is only part of it. The bigger part is radio management and navigation. Stuff that P3D does well. But when you are in commercial training, maneuver is a big part of it. If he is going be flying a Piper Warrior that day on specific maneuvers, he jumps in XP. If he is going to be doing a basic cross-country, he jumps in P3D. Pretty simple.
He says P3D only provides a good feel for flight in specific conditions. XP does a better job across the entire flight profile. If he needs to get a better feel for things like pushing the departure and stall limits, he uses XP.
His flight school uses XP in its simulator for flight. For ATC, they literally sit in a cockpit on the ground and talk to a controller. At home he uses P3D. ATC is super important in instrument ratings. But he said the ATC in P3D wasn't dynamic enough to help much. It wouldn't provide feedback when he was doing something wrong. Interestingly, he flies out of an airport in New England that is well modeled in XP. He takes a recording of his flight into school and is critiqued by head of flight.
I would say RyanE's comments are spot on. Xplane does have 2 freeware 737s that are payware quality, zibo mod, and 737ultimate.
Still nothing beats the sum of all prepar's parts functioning together. A2A makes an add on, accusim which enhances the flight feel to more realistic levels. I haven't tried it in a while though.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 25, 2018, 10:22:39 AM
Well as they're civilian flights it seems to me ATC would be a big part of "having something to do", especially when taking off and landing. Otherwise all your doing is jumping in a plane and flying from A to B.
I like the look of X Plane, but no ATC is a bit of a bummer. I also looked at the add-ons. There's ALOT...£700+ worth!!
Tuna, I don't even think I've got those downloads for FSX kicking around anymore so that's not a positive for me jumping on P3D
Thanks for the replies
That is why I'm doing real life ATC with real people thought VATSIM. It will always be better than any computer ATC. But there will be times there are no controllers or not a lot of people flying depending on where you are.
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
I would say RyanE's comments are spot on. Xplane does have 2 freeware 737s that are payware quality, zibo mod, and 737ultimate.
Still nothing beats the sum of all prepar's parts functioning together. A2A makes an add on, accusim which enhances the flight feel to more realistic levels. I haven't tried it in a while though.
I think with FSX platform, you do have a lot of quality add-ons, but you have to buy them to get the quality flight experience that you desire.
XP may have less add-ons but you only really need a few to enjoy. For me, it's all about getting a very good payware plane. Then I just live with default weather and environments. Do online flying with VATSIM ATC. Lots of free airports with better quality than FSX. In the end, you'll spend less money. Runs smother too.
That said, my final advice is to choose the platform with the professional-level aircraft you really want fly a lot. O0
I chose to go X-Plane since I am fine with exclusively flying the IXEG 737. Then I just live with the other imperfections and make do with freeware airports.
For prepar3d, am I reading their site correctly where it costs $199 to purchase?
^ negative, that's for the pro version. Get the academic version, it's like 60bucks.
Thanks guys. And thanks for the video JH.
I think I'm going to hold off. It seems to me neither has what I'm looking for...without add-ons at least. I don't really want to go back to FSX...P3D is single core from what I gathered and isn't 64 bit yet? And Xplane, whilst stunning, seems like it might leave me a bit short in the immersion level.
Maybe I'll watch some videos or...just wait until XPlane is more filled out.
Thanks all.
Quote from: jomni on August 25, 2018, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
I would say RyanE's comments are spot on. Xplane does have 2 freeware 737s that are payware quality, zibo mod, and 737ultimate.
Still nothing beats the sum of all prepar's parts functioning together. A2A makes an add on, accusim which enhances the flight feel to more realistic levels. I haven't tried it in a while though.
I think with FSX platform, you do have a lot of quality add-ons, but you have to buy them to get the quality flight experience that you desire.
XP may have less add-ons but you only really need a few to enjoy. For me, it's all about getting a very good payware plane. Then I just live with default weather and environments. Do online flying with VATSIM ATC. Lots of free airports with better quality than FSX. In the end, you'll spend less money. Runs smother too.
I agree, vatsim or pilot edge are amazing experience for real ATC. The issue I have is how do you make the world around you feel like a living breathing world with no AI traffic ? Vatsim is great when flying on a crowded Saturday at KLAX with gates full of other humans arriving and departing. But if it's a slow day or airport, world traffic live with default ATC (the default ATC acually will see the Ai planes and direct you accordingly) with active sky injecting real weather ends up being a better experience.
The new version of air hauler even lets you create your own virtual airline and make your own schedules.
It really just depends how far you want to take it.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 25, 2018, 09:38:56 PM
Thanks guys. And thanks for the video JH.
I think I'm going to hold off. It seems to me neither has what I'm looking for...without add-ons at least. I don't really want to go back to FSX...P3D is single core from what I gathered and isn't 64 bit yet? And Xplane, whilst stunning, seems like it might leave me a bit short in the immersion level.
Maybe I'll watch some videos or...just wait until XPlane is more filled out.
Thanks all.
P3d is 64 bit, that was the big selling point for version 4 that came out last summer and everyone had to rebuy it like a new version of steel beasts. Plus many addons had to charge for compatibility, kind of reminded me of the battlefront paid update arguments from the past.
Flight simming is not cheap. You could get xplane 11 half off in a steam sale and get the 737 zibo mod free and see if you like doing commersial aviation before you delv in more financially.
XP has a demo that runs for 10 or 15 minutes.
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2018, 09:29:56 PM
^ negative, that's for the pro version. Get the academic version, it's like 60bucks.
According to their official license page, I was under the impression you had to be a student in school in order to get the academic version. Sadly, I am far from that nowadays:) I suppose you could still buy it unless they require some kind of proof like other software somtimes does when buying an academic version.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 26, 2018, 04:38:01 AM
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2018, 09:29:56 PM
^ negative, that's for the pro version. Get the academic version, it's like 60bucks.
According to their official license page, I was under the impression you had to be a student in school in order to get the academic version. Sadly, I am far from that nowadays:) I suppose you could still buy it unless they require some kind of proof like other software somtimes does when buying an academic version.
lol, that always stopped me from making the jump (too honest). Though I did think of telling my son "Hey you're gonna learn to fly and that's that!"
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 25, 2018, 09:38:56 PM
Thanks guys. And thanks for the video JH.
I think I'm going to hold off. It seems to me neither has what I'm looking for...without add-ons at least. I don't really want to go back to FSX...P3D is single core from what I gathered and isn't 64 bit yet? And Xplane, whilst stunning, seems like it might leave me a bit short in the immersion level.
Maybe I'll watch some videos or...just wait until XPlane is more filled out.
Thanks all.
Shouldn't you be off playing F1 2018 anyway:)
Everyone just buys the academic version. If your ever scrutinized, just state that you're exploring your interest in obtaining your pilot's license. P3d academic license restriction is the biggest joke in flight simming. Just semantics really.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 26, 2018, 12:28:56 PM
Shouldn't you be off playing F1 2018 anyway:)
I was thinking about it, bit there's not allot changed and I'm only half way through my season...so I'm holding out 😁
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 26, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 26, 2018, 12:28:56 PM
Shouldn't you be off playing F1 2018 anyway:)
I was thinking about it, bit there's not allot changed and I'm only half way through my season...so I'm holding out 😁
Of course I bought it although only playing like 2 hours in 2017 version:) Haven't had alot of time to try things out, but for some reason driving seems to handle better for me. But again, I am no expert in these things so hard for me to know how much different than prior versions.
I might pump the money into DCS WW2, or perhaps Kuban or possibly even XPlane 11. F1 2018 will be on sale at Christmas and I'll have finished my campaign by then
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 26, 2018, 11:54:24 PM
I might pump the money into DCS WW2, or perhaps Kuban or possibly even XPlane 11. F1 2018 will be on sale at Christmas and I'll have finished my campaign by then
I'm waiting for XP11 to go on sale again.
I'm looking forward to DCS Modern Air Combat.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 26, 2018, 11:54:24 PM
I might pump the money into DCS WW2, or perhaps Kuban or possibly even XPlane 11. F1 2018 will be on sale at Christmas and I'll have finished my campaign by then
i picked it up for about $30 so thought worth a go...we'll see
Cute.
Can I ask a couple of things about Xplane?
- I see there's a few DLC available, seemingly mostly airports. Does Xplane model all (most?) major airports in game "to a fashion" and these are very detailed DLC, or does Xplane not have all (most) airports around the world
- From a gaming perspective, what does a typical session in Xplane look like? Just firing up a plane, taxing, taking it out and landing? I see there's planes being pushed back from the ramp...is there any communication with the tower required? Do you communicate with the tower when landing or is it blind jump in, take off and land with no interaction with any tower for anything?
It looks beautiful, but it looks less than FSX (in terms of things to do, protocol etc)...is that fair?
I am very tempted to buy this...I'm just wondering what I'm going to have in terms of "gaming".
One last thing...are there any addons (like Air Hauler for FSX) to make it into a "business" game?
One last thing...didn't I watch a video once of some guy taking the piss whilst using VATSIM? I think he was a pilot in-game and he was asking for clearance or something and the ATC guy was proper, full-bore into his ATC stuff and being a complete dick about the request the pilot was making - which seemed reasonable, but apparently on the face of it wasn't the "proper" way to request whatever it was he was requesting.
I guess I'm asking if VatSim uses real people to provide ATC, is the experience that they are really strict? I don't know anything about requesting or any of the communications between aircraft and ATC so I don't want to interact with them through VatSim if it's just going to be frustrated by people who are going to demand that you use the correct nomenclature.
Actually, I think it was the other way...a pilot was asking the VatSim guy for clearance and the VatSim guy said, something like "Yeah, you're good buddy"...and the pilot went a bit mad about it.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 29, 2018, 01:30:39 AM
One last thing...didn't I watch a video once of some guy taking the piss whilst using VATSIM? I think he was a pilot in-game and he was asking for clearance or something and the ATC guy was proper, full-bore into his ATC stuff and being a complete dick about the request the pilot was making - which seemed reasonable, but apparently on the face of it wasn't the "proper" way to request whatever it was he was requesting.
I guess I'm asking if VatSim uses real people to provide ATC, is the experience that they are really strict? I don't know anything about requesting or any of the communications between aircraft and ATC so I don't want to interact with them through VatSim if it's just going to be frustrated by people who are going to demand that you use the correct nomenclature.
Actually, I think it was the other way...a pilot was asking the VatSim guy for clearance and the VatSim guy said, something like "Yeah, you're good buddy"...and the pilot went a bit mad about it.
Not strict in my area. Generally it should be a friendly environment.
From the Code of Conduct:
https://www.vatsim.net/documents/code-of-conduct
QuoteSince this is a learning environment, there are times when a pilot may encounter a new air traffic controller who is in the process of learning his airspace and/or general air traffic control procedures. The same may be true of the controller who may find himself issuing ATC to a pilot flying online for the first time. Everyone should remember to exercise patience and courtesy to these new pilots and controllers.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 29, 2018, 01:20:43 AM
Cute.
Can I ask a couple of things about Xplane?
- I see there's a few DLC available, seemingly mostly airports. Does Xplane model all (most?) major airports in game "to a fashion" and these are very detailed DLC, or does Xplane not have all (most) airports around the world
- From a gaming perspective, what does a typical session in Xplane look like? Just firing up a plane, taxing, taking it out and landing? I see there's planes being pushed back from the ramp...is there any communication with the tower required? Do you communicate with the tower when landing or is it blind jump in, take off and land with no interaction with any tower for anything?
It looks beautiful, but it looks less than FSX (in terms of things to do, protocol etc)...is that fair?
I am very tempted to buy this...I'm just wondering what I'm going to have in terms of "gaming".
One last thing...are there any addons (like Air Hauler for FSX) to make it into a "business" game?
Not all default airports are detailed. Some are just runways by default at least for XP10. But there's a lot of free user content that looks very nice and payware quality.
No Airhauler but you can use FSeconomy.net.
Warning. XPlane ATC SUCKS! Don't use it. But downside is you won't get AI traffic as well. That is why I only do VATSIM. This might be the deal breaker.
^ One of the best things about Xplane11 is they increased the number of default airports that have out of the box detailed scenery. You can check the xplane website before you fly to see if it has a good detailed default airport, or it lists all the upgraded freeware available.
I just bought Xplane 11. What the hell :2funny:
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 29, 2018, 03:39:02 PM
I just bought Xplane 11. What the hell :2funny:
Enjoy. It's visually superior to FSX P3D out of the box.
My son sent this to me...
https://www.thresholdx.net/news/a218vm
I found it interesting that they model the electrical loads and fluctuating power delivery to simulate stressing the electrical system. That is detail.
I still find it strange that so little of the main addon studios still havent picked up on Xplane as a viable market, but at the same time it was only with XP11 that the sim made great strides to become more mainstream friendly.
Give it a few years still and it might very well replace P3D for many. But the addons need to get going.
As a fully licensed pilot myself I can attest to the great detail of XP's systems modelling and physics. Weather input is also much higher fidelity.
The actual player interface in the sim, meaning the cockpits, have long time been of sub par quality save a few . And still the big ones like the 737 still have unrealistic behaviour due to lacking autopilot features and such.
If the airliners don't have a solid autopilot, there's not even much sense in flying them. You guys don't hand-fly until you're on final, right?
I've heard that the Hawaiian Airlines guys hand fly entire approaches in the islands, but I don't know if that's actually true, or how common that practice is on the mainland (or in other parts of the world).
I'm talking jets, here, not little prop puddle jumpers.
I've always thought of the XP vs. P3D comparison as similar to the Woff vs. RoF comparison.
XP=RoF
P3D=WoFF
Meaning, XP is perhaps better at actually simulating flying, whereas P3D is a better simulation of the process of a flight. XP better in multiplayer, P3D better for the offline player. Something like that.
Flying FSX with some good add-on scenery, add-on AI real-world traffic and routes, and the stock ATC with a good PMDG jet can be a very challenging and satisfying experience.
I like your comparison. :)
I don't know about how other (mainline) companies promote it, but at my company we still have freedom to just fly manual 'raw data' and if conditions allow I personally fly approaches without autopilot.
I firmly believe flying this way is a skill that needs to be honed.